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	<title>Comments on: Would You Buy A Used Car Industry From This Man?</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-54120</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 10:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-54120</guid>
		<description>ottovbvs:  If Chrysler can&#039;t hack it, then of course they should go into liquidation.  Who needs them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do you know how many American auto manufacturers went out of business in the 20th century?  Do names like Packard and Studebaker ring any bells with you?  But somehow, we prospered anyway, didn&#039;t we?&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbvs:  If Chrysler can&#8217;t hack it, then of course they should go into liquidation.  Who needs them.</p>
<p>Do you know how many American auto manufacturers went out of business in the 20th century?  Do names like Packard and Studebaker ring any bells with you?  But somehow, we prospered anyway, didn&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-43405</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 10:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-43405</guid>
		<description>ottovbvs:  Maybe I didn&#039;t make myself clear.  Let me try again:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We could live without a pharmaceutical industry.  In the 19th century, Germany, not the U.S., was the world leader in chemistry and medicine.  But that didn&#039;t stop the U.S. from economic growth, did it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We could live without a construction industry--if there&#039;s nothing worth constructing.  But that&#039;s never the case.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We&#039;ve become so accustomed to the idea that America has to be first in EVERYTHING that we&#039;ve forgotten that in a global capitalist world, that&#039;s unnecessary.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are NO industries that are &quot;essential&quot; to ANY country--as long as peaceful free trade between nations exists.  What we don&#039;t have inside America, we can buy outside America.  The result of this will be the decline of the U.S. dollar to the point that it will be profitable to build industries in America again.  And then we&#039;ll build them again.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s how comparative advantage works.&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s how global capitalism works.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbvs:  Maybe I didn&#8217;t make myself clear.  Let me try again:</p>
<p>We could live without a pharmaceutical industry.  In the 19th century, Germany, not the U.S., was the world leader in chemistry and medicine.  But that didn&#8217;t stop the U.S. from economic growth, did it?</p>
<p>We could live without a construction industry&#8211;if there&#8217;s nothing worth constructing.  But that&#8217;s never the case.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve become so accustomed to the idea that America has to be first in EVERYTHING that we&#8217;ve forgotten that in a global capitalist world, that&#8217;s unnecessary.</p>
<p>There are NO industries that are &#8220;essential&#8221; to ANY country&#8211;as long as peaceful free trade between nations exists.  What we don&#8217;t have inside America, we can buy outside America.  The result of this will be the decline of the U.S. dollar to the point that it will be profitable to build industries in America again.  And then we&#8217;ll build them again.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s how comparative advantage works.<br />That&#8217;s how global capitalism works.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-39563</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 10:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-39563</guid>
		<description>sinz54 &lt;br&gt;&quot;8:21 AMottovbvs: There&#039;s nothing &quot;essential&quot; about the auto industry or any other industry.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What industry would you like next to regard as inessential. Pharmaceuticals, construction equipment? For a $14 trillion a year economy, with an average 14 million a year car market, in one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world to be unable to sustain a domestic car manufacturing industry is ludicrous. Do you really think the Japanese, Germans or French would allow their domestic champions to fail. I wonder whether you read Eakins piece where as far as I can tell, it&#039;s all a bit vague on details, he&#039;s suggesting allowing Chrysler to go into liquidation.        &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz54 <br />&#8220;8:21 AMottovbvs: There&#8217;s nothing &#8220;essential&#8221; about the auto industry or any other industry.&#8221;</p>
<p>What industry would you like next to regard as inessential. Pharmaceuticals, construction equipment? For a $14 trillion a year economy, with an average 14 million a year car market, in one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world to be unable to sustain a domestic car manufacturing industry is ludicrous. Do you really think the Japanese, Germans or French would allow their domestic champions to fail. I wonder whether you read Eakins piece where as far as I can tell, it&#8217;s all a bit vague on details, he&#8217;s suggesting allowing Chrysler to go into liquidation.        </p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-46288</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-46288</guid>
		<description>Chrysler has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What immediate effect does this have on Chrysler&#039;s workers?  None whatsoever.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cars are being produced on Chrysler&#039;s assembly lines right now.  Chrysler showrooms are open for business across the country, and you can buy a car there now if you want.  The Obama Administration has even put the full faith and credit of the Federal Government behind Chrysler&#039;s auto warranties.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So what was everybody so afraid of?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Chapter 11 is not the same thing as Chapter 7 (which is actual liquidation).  Under Chapter 11, the factories continue to work as before; but terms of contracts and debts can be negated and renegotiated. This gives Chrysler needed leverage in renegotiating contracts with their suppliers and the unions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The reason the Dems hate Chapter 11 is that it means that their beloved UAW union can&#039;t hold Chrysler to the terms of their previously negotiated contract.  But that&#039;s as it should be.  If American car companies are to be competitive with Japanese non-union car companies, the American unions are going to have to start being much less greedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chrysler has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.</p>
<p>What immediate effect does this have on Chrysler&#8217;s workers?  None whatsoever.</p>
<p>Cars are being produced on Chrysler&#8217;s assembly lines right now.  Chrysler showrooms are open for business across the country, and you can buy a car there now if you want.  The Obama Administration has even put the full faith and credit of the Federal Government behind Chrysler&#8217;s auto warranties.</p>
<p>So what was everybody so afraid of?</p>
<p>Chapter 11 is not the same thing as Chapter 7 (which is actual liquidation).  Under Chapter 11, the factories continue to work as before; but terms of contracts and debts can be negated and renegotiated. This gives Chrysler needed leverage in renegotiating contracts with their suppliers and the unions.</p>
<p>The reason the Dems hate Chapter 11 is that it means that their beloved UAW union can&#8217;t hold Chrysler to the terms of their previously negotiated contract.  But that&#8217;s as it should be.  If American car companies are to be competitive with Japanese non-union car companies, the American unions are going to have to start being much less greedy.</p>
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		<title>By: krove</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-46994</link>
		<dc:creator>krove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-46994</guid>
		<description>Wow am I pleased that McCain lost. This guy was his main economic advisor after &quot;Enron&quot; Gramm. Think what a mess we would be in now with our leader still stating that the economy is fundamentally sound while the country melts down before his face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow am I pleased that McCain lost. This guy was his main economic advisor after &#8220;Enron&#8221; Gramm. Think what a mess we would be in now with our leader still stating that the economy is fundamentally sound while the country melts down before his face.</p>
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		<title>By: Bulldoglover100</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-39631</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulldoglover100</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-39631</guid>
		<description>Just like the video the RNC released yesterday one feels they are dealing with children often. &lt;br&gt;Mr. Eakin...we are not stupid nor would you be advised to pretend when speaking to us.&lt;br&gt;IF the Big 3 crashes, so do the car lots, so do the supply stores and so do many of agencies that loan the money for them. YOU KNOW the stats on unemployment though don&#039;t YOU..if Obama had ignored the calls for help...that BUSH had already started helping before Obama even took office..forgot to mention that one did you Mr. Eakin?&lt;br&gt;Regardless if another 10 million people wound up jobless? Our economy would crater and life as we know it? would stop and I&#039;m not talking about the extras in life, I&#039;m talking about education, eating and having clean water and police protection.....but people of your ilk are willing to see us in that position if it means the GOP clawing its way back to power.&lt;br&gt;No wonder our numbers are dropping and we will lose even more seats.&lt;br&gt;DEAL with the real problems and stop the blame game when it began with US and the last 8 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just like the video the RNC released yesterday one feels they are dealing with children often. <br />Mr. Eakin&#8230;we are not stupid nor would you be advised to pretend when speaking to us.<br />IF the Big 3 crashes, so do the car lots, so do the supply stores and so do many of agencies that loan the money for them. YOU KNOW the stats on unemployment though don&#8217;t YOU..if Obama had ignored the calls for help&#8230;that BUSH had already started helping before Obama even took office..forgot to mention that one did you Mr. Eakin?<br />Regardless if another 10 million people wound up jobless? Our economy would crater and life as we know it? would stop and I&#8217;m not talking about the extras in life, I&#8217;m talking about education, eating and having clean water and police protection&#8230;..but people of your ilk are willing to see us in that position if it means the GOP clawing its way back to power.<br />No wonder our numbers are dropping and we will lose even more seats.<br />DEAL with the real problems and stop the blame game when it began with US and the last 8 years.</p>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-38466</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-38466</guid>
		<description>Re: Ottovbvs; 6:09 AM --&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Mr Eakins, what&#039;s your alternative?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Bankruptcy. His alternative - and mine - is and was and always has been BANKRUPTCY.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ott old boy... are you familiar with the term &quot;legal&quot; vs. &quot;extralegal?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*SIGH*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;GM and Chrysler&#039;s debts to the union trust funds are legal obligations...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*SNORT*) Yeah... remember when they used to say that about... oh... MORTGAGE CONTRACTS?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*HUMORLESS CHUCKLE*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;...obligations on which millions of car industry retirees depend for their livelihoods.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And non-car-industry-retirees &quot;depend&quot; upon THEIR own incomes and savings which are being diverted and squandered out of partisan political expediency.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is nothing more than wealth transfer. &quot;Theft&quot; if you want to put it in ethical terms. (*SHRUG*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BILL&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;P.S. - On a possible bright note... perhaps soon leftover G-8&#039;s will be on the market at bargain basement prices! If so... I may very well buy one to go with my &quot;new&quot; Charger RT that I bought back in March!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*WINK*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/g8/2009/review.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Ottovbvs; 6:09 AM &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Mr Eakins, what&#8217;s your alternative?&#8221;</p>
<p>Bankruptcy. His alternative &#8211; and mine &#8211; is and was and always has been BANKRUPTCY.</p>
<p>Ott old boy&#8230; are you familiar with the term &#8220;legal&#8221; vs. &#8220;extralegal?&#8221;</p>
<p>(*SIGH*)</p>
<p>&#8220;GM and Chrysler&#8217;s debts to the union trust funds are legal obligations&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>(*SNORT*) Yeah&#8230; remember when they used to say that about&#8230; oh&#8230; MORTGAGE CONTRACTS?</p>
<p>(*HUMORLESS CHUCKLE*)</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;obligations on which millions of car industry retirees depend for their livelihoods.&#8221;</p>
<p>And non-car-industry-retirees &#8220;depend&#8221; upon THEIR own incomes and savings which are being diverted and squandered out of partisan political expediency.</p>
<p>This is nothing more than wealth transfer. &#8220;Theft&#8221; if you want to put it in ethical terms. (*SHRUG*)</p>
<p>BILL</p>
<p>P.S. &#8211; On a possible bright note&#8230; perhaps soon leftover G-8&#8217;s will be on the market at bargain basement prices! If so&#8230; I may very well buy one to go with my &#8220;new&#8221; Charger RT that I bought back in March!</p>
<p>(*WINK*)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/g8/2009/review.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/g8/2009/review.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-54638</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-54638</guid>
		<description>&quot;The need to restructure is the fundamental reason why firms seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection....This doesnt sound very different than bankruptcy. Why not just use it and get the government out of the auto business?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yep. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is a power grab, pure and simple. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BILL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The need to restructure is the fundamental reason why firms seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection&#8230;.This doesnt sound very different than bankruptcy. Why not just use it and get the government out of the auto business?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep. </p>
<p>This is a power grab, pure and simple. </p>
<p>BILL</p>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-46351</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-46351</guid>
		<description>&quot;No serious observer of the situation believes that the government should own and run a U.S. auto company. The potential for political meddling in car design, vehicle pricing, employment policies, and plant locations is overwhelming.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And btw... &quot;who&quot; exactly is the &quot;voice&quot; of the government &quot;owner?&#039;&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I own stock. I decide how to vote.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I invest in a pension fund, hedge fund, mutual fund, whatever. Someone - perhaps responsible to the head of the Fund, perhaps responsible to a committee of the Fund - decides how to vote on issues like Board Member elections and policies... whether to accept a takeover bid or support a &quot;poison pill defense.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does OBAMA hold &quot;the government&#039;s&quot; vote? What about Congress? I thought they were a co-equal branch... the &quot;money branch&quot; in fact? What if Obama decides &quot;our&quot; shares should be voted one way but Pelosi and Reid disagree? Or... what if Pelosi and Reid - with the backing of an actual vote of both Houses - decide to vote &quot;our&quot; stock one way but Obama disagrees. Does Obama get a veto?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Heck... do the nine Members of the Supreme Court get a say...?!?! (*CHUCKLE*) After all... again... isn&#039;t the Judiciary a &quot;co-equal&quot; branch of government?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let&#039;s say the power is given to an &quot;Auto Czar.&quot; Who does he or she report to... Congress or Obama? Who does he or she actually work for - take orders from?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You folks see where I&#039;m going... right... what I&#039;m asking. Any factual answers...???&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BILL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No serious observer of the situation believes that the government should own and run a U.S. auto company. The potential for political meddling in car design, vehicle pricing, employment policies, and plant locations is overwhelming.&#8221;</p>
<p>And btw&#8230; &#8220;who&#8221; exactly is the &#8220;voice&#8221; of the government &#8220;owner?&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>I own stock. I decide how to vote.</p>
<p>I invest in a pension fund, hedge fund, mutual fund, whatever. Someone &#8211; perhaps responsible to the head of the Fund, perhaps responsible to a committee of the Fund &#8211; decides how to vote on issues like Board Member elections and policies&#8230; whether to accept a takeover bid or support a &#8220;poison pill defense.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does OBAMA hold &#8220;the government&#8217;s&#8221; vote? What about Congress? I thought they were a co-equal branch&#8230; the &#8220;money branch&#8221; in fact? What if Obama decides &#8220;our&#8221; shares should be voted one way but Pelosi and Reid disagree? Or&#8230; what if Pelosi and Reid &#8211; with the backing of an actual vote of both Houses &#8211; decide to vote &#8220;our&#8221; stock one way but Obama disagrees. Does Obama get a veto?</p>
<p>Heck&#8230; do the nine Members of the Supreme Court get a say&#8230;?!?! (*CHUCKLE*) After all&#8230; again&#8230; isn&#8217;t the Judiciary a &#8220;co-equal&#8221; branch of government?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say the power is given to an &#8220;Auto Czar.&#8221; Who does he or she report to&#8230; Congress or Obama? Who does he or she actually work for &#8211; take orders from?</p>
<p>You folks see where I&#8217;m going&#8230; right&#8230; what I&#8217;m asking. Any factual answers&#8230;???</p>
<p>BILL</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/would-you-buy-a-used-car-industry-from-this-man/comment-page-1#comment-39863</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-39863</guid>
		<description>ottovbvs:  There&#039;s nothing &quot;essential&quot; about the auto industry or any other industry.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;130 years ago, the telegraph industry was more &quot;essential&quot; than the auto industry today.  Virtually all high-speed national and international communication was by telegraph; it was the Internet of its time.   It&#039;s virtually gone now.  Yet America prospered without it.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbvs:  There&#8217;s nothing &#8220;essential&#8221; about the auto industry or any other industry.</p>
<p>130 years ago, the telegraph industry was more &#8220;essential&#8221; than the auto industry today.  Virtually all high-speed national and international communication was by telegraph; it was the Internet of its time.   It&#8217;s virtually gone now.  Yet America prospered without it.</p>
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