“WillyP,

Here’s a simple question for you. How do you feel about democracy?”

Tepid. Churchill had it about summed up when he quipped “democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Democracy had a very, very bad name for several centuries following the atrocities committed by Athens during the Peloponnesian war. Democracy can result in mob rule, and often does. Look at the Roman Senate near the end of the Republic (sure, I know, Republic vs. Democracy, but still men voting and deciding via majority).

Democracy works well when there is TRULY. LIMITED. GOVERNMENT. If not, it devolves into whatever type of governance the rulers can fool the stupid populace into accepting (note: public education acts as a catalyst to this process), typically under the guise of benevolence.

Here’s a simple question for you. How do you feel about democracy?

Thank you, David, for making it very clear (as if it were not already obvious to many of us) that you Republicans must rely upon logical fallacies (and the ignorance of uneducated people who do not understand the principles of reasoned discourse) to achieve your nefarious ends. For you, Power overcomes Principle every time, and as you proved when you worked for the Bush administration, you have no qualms whatsoever about lying to Americans if it will give you the slightest temporary political advantage.

“Quinnipiac University’s Polling Institute in Connecticut surveyed 1,616 registered voters from Dec. 15-20 and found 53% “mostly disapprove” of the health care changes being considered in Congress, compared to 36% who “mostly approve.” Meanwhile 56% disapprove of Obama’s handling of the issue compared to 38% who approve.”

http://www.freep.com/article/20091222/NEWS15/91222024/1322/Poll-Most-Americans-against-health-care-reform

I had an aunt who was on dialysis for years, and I understand (second hand) what a torture it is. She eventually received a kidney, thankfully.

I think you’re quite correct. If you are unemployed and costing THE STATE ~$100,000 a year, eventually a disconnected bureaucrat is going to “reallocate” your resources to more politically viable persons/taxpayers. You will be looked at as a drain on the system, which according to the numbers you are.

I think these healthcare nuts should consider the case of the quintessential bureaucrat, Eichmann, who was unconcerned with the end results of his decisions. He was a dedicated “social servant,” following protocol according to the state’s recipe. To be clear (since subtlety does not run high in forums), I am not comparing Democrats to Nazi exterminators. However, Eichmann certainly believed in his cause, as much (or more than) the health reformers of today. When, in the not so distant future, the healthcare bureaucrats of the Federal government are faced with a terrible decision, they will not even acknowledge the tragic choice involved in ending a desperate patient’s dialysis regimin and treating a premature infant. Almost certainly, they will end the dialysis treatment with the full gusto of one who is convinced that all is right and proper with their decision. After all, it has been sanctioned by the State, “democratically” decreed, and the apparatus signed into law. Remember! You’re in the business of HEALTHCARE!, they’re continually assured.

One may, I suppose, counter that a sick parent would give his life for her sick child. This action is understandable, even commendable. Still, I would question the compassion of one who would presume to make that choice for the parent.

The methodology is the same; the technic analogous. Although motives may be different, the end results of bureaucritization are predictable.

The money to run the hospital facilities will be carried back as an overhead charge on all those hospital patients who are insured.

But this young man’s case does suggest something: It’s possible to keep folks alive today that couldn’t have been kept alive 50 years ago–but at an extremely high cost. The most expensive year of your life, as far as health care is concerned, will be the last year of your life. Studies have proven this.

My dialysis costs $80,000 a year, every year, for as long as I live (unless I get a kidney transplant, which costs even more but is a one-time charge). It’s not just the doctors’ fees. It’s the running of the dialysis clinic, with expensive dialysis machines, climate control, electricity, a miniature chemical plant that mixes all the needed chemicals and purifies the water, and a portable generator in case of a power outage.

There is no magic cheap alternative to this.

An authoritarian society might question whether it’s worth it to keep these kidney patients alive at such a high cost.

If you’re self-employed, you have few options.”

And why, instead of eliminating perverse tax incentives, do people wish to wreck it all with a single payer system? Fix the tax system, and eliminate a huge % of the problem.

What sense does it make to fix 10% of the system and ruin the other 90%? It doesn’t make any.

But that would be off-topic for this discussion thread.

In fact, I grew up in New York City, where liberals WRECKED the New York City public school system. I just managed to graduate before the system was destroyed.