Comments on: Why Not Investigate?

By:

Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:42:19 +0000

SDspringy:Please explain how torturing KSM led to the disruption of a terrorist plot the FBI broke up BEFORE KSM was ever captured. The plot to destroy the Library Tower was foiled by the FBI in 2002, and KSM wasn’t captured until March, 2003.

By: Tom B

Tom B — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:32:43 +0000

The truth begins to filter out:

From the Washington Post
:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR2009042002818.html

"Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. "

By: krove

krove — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:58:05 +0000

'Blunt force injuries' cited in murder ruling

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
The Guardian, Friday 7 March 2003 08.21 GMT

Two prisoners who died while being held for interrogation at the US military base in Afghanistan had apparently been beaten, according to a military pathologist's report. A criminal investigation is now under way into the deaths which have both been classified as homicides.

The deaths have led to calls for an inquiry into what interrogation techniques are being used at the base where it is believed the al-Qaida leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is now also being held. Former prisoners at the base claim that detainees are chained to the ceiling, shackled so tightly that the blood flow stops, kept naked and hooded and kicked to keep them awake for days on end.

The two men, both Afghans, died last December at the US forces base in Bagram, north of Kabul, where prisoners have been held for questioning. The autopsies found they had suffered "blunt force injuries" and classified both deaths as homicides.

A spokesman for the Pentagon said yesterday it was not possible to discuss the details of the case because of the proceeding investigation. If the investigation finds that the prisoners had been unlawfully killed during interrogation, it could lead to both civil and military prosecutions. He added that it was not clear whether only US personnel had had access to the men.

One of the dead prisoners, known only as Dilawar, died as a result of "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease", according to the death certificate signed by Major Elizabeth Rouse, a pathologist with the Washington-based Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, which operates under the auspices of the defence department. The dead man was aged 22 and was a farmer and part-time taxi-driver. He was said to have had an advanced heart condition and blocked arteri

By: krove

krove — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:54:00 +0000

From June 18th, 2008:

At today's House Judiciary Subcommittee on Civil Rights hearing on torture, Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) that over 100 detainees have died in U.S. custody, with up to 27 of these declared homicides:

NADLER: Your testimony said 100 detainees have died in detention; do you believe the 25 of those were in effect murdered?

WILKERSON: Mr. Chairman, I think the number's actually higher than that now. Last time I checked it was 108.

NADLER: Colonel Wilkerson, in your prepared testimony, you write that "as I compiled my dossier for Secretary Powell, and as I did further research, and as my views grew firmer and firmer I had to reread that memo (of February 7, 2002), "I needed to balance in my own mind the overwhelming evidence that my own government had sanctioned abuse and torture, which at its worse had led to the murder of 25 detainees and at least 100 detainee deaths. We have murder at least 25 people in detention. That was the clear low point of the evidence." Your testimony said 100 detainees have died in detention; do you believe the 25 of those were in effect murdered?

WILKERSON: Mr. Chairman, I think the number's actually higher than that now. Last time I checked it was 108, and the total number that were declared homicides by the military services, or by the CIA, or others doing investigations, CID, and so forth -- was 25, 26, 27.

NADLER: Were declared homicides?

WILKERSON: Right, starting as early as December 2001 in Afghanistan.

NADLER: And these were homicides committed by people engaged in interrogations?

WILKERSON: Or in guarding prisoners, or something like that. People who were in detention.

NADLER: They were in detention, not trying to escape or anything, declared homicides by our own authorities.

By: ottovbvs

ottovbvs — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:07:06 +0000

SDspringy “Holder isnt anymore independent than the last one”…..And do you have any evidence to back that statement up? You’ve got too used to the idea of hacks like Gonzales who was a third rater who got his state judicial appointment from the Bush’s as an act of political patronage. Holder is in a different league. He was a partner at Covington and Burling. If you don’t know the difference…well there is one.

By: ottovbvs

ottovbvs — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:31:42 +0000

“”The process of interrogation has many forms, your torture is another mans walk in the park.”yep waterboarding someone is a walk in the park…..don’t be ridiculous.

By: ottovbvs

ottovbvs — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:29:31 +0000

SDspringy 1:24 PM..The problem is that it’s not in all in Obama’s hands. My guess is that he will shield the CIA folks for reasons of pragmatism if nothing else. When it comes to the lawyers who wrote these opinions, and indeed political figures like Cheney and Feith, he has no such incentive so he’ll probably just let matters take their course. This is simply not Bush’s DOJ where they just took orders from the white house. The DOJ is and should be a totally independant arm of govt hence the resignations at the time of watergate.

By: krove

krove — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:11:11 +0000

SDspringy.

You are wrong, Torture is a closely defined set of techniques. They are laid down. Water boarding is torture. We the USA hanged Japanese torturers for this very thing. Under the charters we signed (Regan) water boarding is torture there is no dispute on that.

Far worse things happened at Abu Ghraib but all we know for fact is water boarding.

By: krove

krove — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:06:45 +0000

Tweety just asked his guests. “Does the GOP want to be known as the party of tax cuts and torture”? Well that’s about what it will be.

By: Tom B

Tom B — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:03:18 +0000

The naivet is yours Bloodstar. If it happens in Washington its political. Holder isnt anymore independent than the last one. If Obama doesnt like him he is out and it will be political.

The process of interrogation has many forms, your torture is another mans walk in the park. Dont get caught up in the side show, when the rest of the information is out the picture will change. This story will change a dozen times before its over. The left has been howling for blood on this issue and there are plenty of lefties in place now in the administration to provide it. This is political payback, this is political hay, this will be a political sideshow which will drag on till the elections of 2010.