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	<title>Comments on: Why Natural Gas Makes Economic Sense</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense</link>
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		<title>By: Pickens Plan Media Coverage 8.22.09-8.24.09 &#124; Sustainability In Business</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61530</link>
		<dc:creator>Pickens Plan Media Coverage 8.22.09-8.24.09 &#124; Sustainability In Business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10391#comment-61530</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Natural Gas Makes Economic Sense – NewMajority.com – 8/21/09 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Natural Gas Makes Economic Sense – NewMajority.com – 8/21/09 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vfguerin</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61232</link>
		<dc:creator>vfguerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My Dad and I have been running our vehicles on alternate fuels since the mid-seventies starting with diesel then natural gas and propane.  
In recent decades, we&#039;ve been wondering why fueling stations have been shutting down their NGV pumps here in Western Canada.  They&#039;re shutting down all over to the extent that it&#039;s becoming inconvenient to run a vehicle on NG and the government has discontinued it&#039;s grant program for conversions!  
Early this year, I attended a lecture about the Alberta tar sands and the environmental nightmare that&#039;s being perpetrated there.  At this lecture I found out that massive amounts of BC and Alberta&#039;s natural gas reserves are being diverted from the consumer market for use in creating steam for use in extracting oil from the bitumen in the tar sands.  The amount of NG that it takes to extract the oil from the bitumen is worth more than the oil that is extracted.  At the rate they are burning the NG, they will exhaust all of BC and Alberta&#039;s NG reserves by 2030.  All of this in order for Canada to be able to supply 30% of US oil demand presently.  
In other words, a clean burning fuel is being squandered in order to produce a dirty burning fuel, not to mention the &#039;collateral damage that&#039;s being done to the environment in the vicinity of the tar sands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Dad and I have been running our vehicles on alternate fuels since the mid-seventies starting with diesel then natural gas and propane.<br />
In recent decades, we&#8217;ve been wondering why fueling stations have been shutting down their NGV pumps here in Western Canada.  They&#8217;re shutting down all over to the extent that it&#8217;s becoming inconvenient to run a vehicle on NG and the government has discontinued it&#8217;s grant program for conversions!<br />
Early this year, I attended a lecture about the Alberta tar sands and the environmental nightmare that&#8217;s being perpetrated there.  At this lecture I found out that massive amounts of BC and Alberta&#8217;s natural gas reserves are being diverted from the consumer market for use in creating steam for use in extracting oil from the bitumen in the tar sands.  The amount of NG that it takes to extract the oil from the bitumen is worth more than the oil that is extracted.  At the rate they are burning the NG, they will exhaust all of BC and Alberta&#8217;s NG reserves by 2030.  All of this in order for Canada to be able to supply 30% of US oil demand presently.<br />
In other words, a clean burning fuel is being squandered in order to produce a dirty burning fuel, not to mention the &#8216;collateral damage that&#8217;s being done to the environment in the vicinity of the tar sands.</p>
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		<title>By: LFC</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61113</link>
		<dc:creator>LFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Natural gas has another huge advantage.  When you start up a coal fired power plant, it takes a full day to bring it up to temperature (to avoid damaging the boilers), and it has to burn 24 hours a day.  A typical coal fired boiler produces anywhere from a few hundred MW to over 1,000 MW.

Natural gas in a combustion gas turbine can produce 100-300 MW, takes up minimal space in comparison, and can be up and running in less than 30 minutes.  They are often used for peak load.  The heat from the exhaust of multiple units can be used to make steam, and so achieve greater efficiency through co-generation.  The advantage of being able to start up your power generators in the morning and turning them off in the evening, burning no fuel for 8-10 hours a day, is enormous.

Natural gas isn&#039;t the ultimate solution, but it certainly can be helpful in the interim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natural gas has another huge advantage.  When you start up a coal fired power plant, it takes a full day to bring it up to temperature (to avoid damaging the boilers), and it has to burn 24 hours a day.  A typical coal fired boiler produces anywhere from a few hundred MW to over 1,000 MW.</p>
<p>Natural gas in a combustion gas turbine can produce 100-300 MW, takes up minimal space in comparison, and can be up and running in less than 30 minutes.  They are often used for peak load.  The heat from the exhaust of multiple units can be used to make steam, and so achieve greater efficiency through co-generation.  The advantage of being able to start up your power generators in the morning and turning them off in the evening, burning no fuel for 8-10 hours a day, is enormous.</p>
<p>Natural gas isn&#8217;t the ultimate solution, but it certainly can be helpful in the interim.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61110</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10391#comment-61110</guid>
		<description>sinz54 // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm
&quot; sinz54 // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm 

&quot;ottovbvs: There’s a difference between who has the largest proven reserves vs. who are the biggest current producers..............I stand by my statement: Currently, North America and Russia are the largest current producers.&quot;


............Of course there is........but we&#039;re talking about a long term energy resource........how long is the US going to remain one of largest producers particularly if we&#039;re depleting at a fair rate.......In 1900 the US was the world&#039;s largest producer of oil........as it happens NG prices are fairly depressed at the moment so that will probably slow down middle eastern and Russian development (and ours too btw) but within 20 years I&#039;m sure we&#039;ll be dwarfed by the middle east.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz54 // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm<br />
&#8221; sinz54 // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;ottovbvs: There’s a difference between who has the largest proven reserves vs. who are the biggest current producers&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..I stand by my statement: Currently, North America and Russia are the largest current producers.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Of course there is&#8230;&#8230;..but we&#8217;re talking about a long term energy resource&#8230;&#8230;..how long is the US going to remain one of largest producers particularly if we&#8217;re depleting at a fair rate&#8230;&#8230;.In 1900 the US was the world&#8217;s largest producer of oil&#8230;&#8230;..as it happens NG prices are fairly depressed at the moment so that will probably slow down middle eastern and Russian development (and ours too btw) but within 20 years I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ll be dwarfed by the middle east.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61095</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>ottovbvs:  There&#039;s a difference between who has the largest proven reserves vs. who are the biggest current producers.

I stand by my statement:  Currently, North America and Russia are the largest &lt;i&gt;current producers&lt;/i&gt;.  

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2180rank.html

The Middle East may have more reserves:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2179rank.html

but they&#039;re not supplying it in as big a quantity--at least not yet.
Hope this clears it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbvs:  There&#8217;s a difference between who has the largest proven reserves vs. who are the biggest current producers.</p>
<p>I stand by my statement:  Currently, North America and Russia are the largest current producers.  </p>
<p><a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2180rank.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2180rank.html</a></p>
<p>The Middle East may have more reserves:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2179rank.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2179rank.html</a></p>
<p>but they&#8217;re not supplying it in as big a quantity&#8211;at least not yet.<br />
Hope this clears it up.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61094</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10391#comment-61094</guid>
		<description>lasulasu // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:04 pm 

&quot;Updated estimates put us near the top.&quot;

............It&#039;s 3.8% of the world&#039;s total.......handy to have but for a country of 305 million people with  about 22% of world GDP it&#039;s impact is limited</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lasulasu // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:04 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;Updated estimates put us near the top.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;It&#8217;s 3.8% of the world&#8217;s total&#8230;&#8230;.handy to have but for a country of 305 million people with  about 22% of world GDP it&#8217;s impact is limited</p>
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		<title>By: lasulasu</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61092</link>
		<dc:creator>lasulasu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Updated estimates put us near the top.
Prior estimates:  http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/pdf/table6.pdf

Updated estimates:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/business/energy-environment/18gas.html?_r=1

Though I would think that in my home state of Colorado, as well as in other western states, water issues will have an impact on actual extraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Updated estimates put us near the top.<br />
Prior estimates:  <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/pdf/table6.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/pdf/table6.pdf</a></p>
<p>Updated estimates:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/business/energy-environment/18gas.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/business/energy-environment/18gas.html?_r=1</a></p>
<p>Though I would think that in my home state of Colorado, as well as in other western states, water issues will have an impact on actual extraction.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61087</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>“Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.”

.........I just checked North America has about 5% of proven reserves a couple of years ago.........Collectively Europe has more than we do</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.”</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I just checked North America has about 5% of proven reserves a couple of years ago&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Collectively Europe has more than we do</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61086</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10391#comment-61086</guid>
		<description>balconesfault // Aug 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm 

&quot;Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.&quot;

......Russia has about 39% of proven reserves and the Middle East has about 40%......the rest of the world has the other 20%.......these numbers go up and down a bit with new finds but they are unlikely to alter dramatically and if they do it&#039;s likely to be in Russia&#039;s favor  .........it is a wonderful resource but as you say consumes a lot of water to produce the ultimate product.......So a great resource but one that leaves us and Europe still heavily dependant on the middle east and a major power rival......not to mention the impact on the balance of payments .....it&#039;s dangerous if it diverts us from the search for alternatives which confer greater strategic and economic  independance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault // Aug 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;Russia has about 39% of proven reserves and the Middle East has about 40%&#8230;&#8230;the rest of the world has the other 20%&#8230;&#8230;.these numbers go up and down a bit with new finds but they are unlikely to alter dramatically and if they do it&#8217;s likely to be in Russia&#8217;s favor  &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;it is a wonderful resource but as you say consumes a lot of water to produce the ultimate product&#8230;&#8230;.So a great resource but one that leaves us and Europe still heavily dependant on the middle east and a major power rival&#8230;&#8230;not to mention the impact on the balance of payments &#8230;..it&#8217;s dangerous if it diverts us from the search for alternatives which confer greater strategic and economic  independance</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/why-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/comment-page-1#comment-61082</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.&lt;/i&gt;

Not exactly - North America and Russia have the advantage of pipeline routes to major consumers - but the Middle East has seen significant construction of LNG liquification terminals recently, with Qatar about to add 31 million metric ton per annum of LNG to the global market.  Meanwhile, numerous LNG receiving/gasification terminals are being or have been constructed in North America recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because North America and Russia, not the Middle East, are among the world’s largest suppliers of natural gas.</p>
<p>Not exactly &#8211; North America and Russia have the advantage of pipeline routes to major consumers &#8211; but the Middle East has seen significant construction of LNG liquification terminals recently, with Qatar about to add 31 million metric ton per annum of LNG to the global market.  Meanwhile, numerous LNG receiving/gasification terminals are being or have been constructed in North America recently.</p>
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