Why Main Street Takes Trump Seriously

April 20th, 2011 at 4:04 pm David Frum | 73 Comments |

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How could anyone possibly support an obvious flim-flam man like Donald Trump?

Imagine this – or maybe you don’t have to imagine.

You are 62 years old. White. Go to church In Easter Sunday. You make a good living: $75,000 a year in a strong company. Your wife earns another $45,000. The kids have grown up and moved out. If anybody had told you when you were young that you’d be signing a $120,000 tax return on April 18, 2011, well, you would have thought you’d moved to easy street.

Only it’s not so easy.

You lost a big chunk of your retirement account in the dot-com crash a decade ago. For a while, it looked as if you had recovered your wealth, thanks to the increase in the value of your house. Back in 2006, you felt so flush that you borrowed against the equity in your home to pay off your credit cards.

Then the housing market crashed too, wiping out your equity. You now face a worrying future. You still have your job, thank God. But your boss makes it very clear that he’s expecting to replace you the instant you turn 65.

Your son has lost his job and is looking for another one. Your daughter and her kid are struggling.

You need to save every penny you can. You keep noticing those withholding lines on your paycheck. Almost a third of your salary! And for what? Those politicians in Washington are eyeing your Medicare. President Obama’s health-care plan cuts $500 billion over 10 years to finance a new entitlement for the uninsured. Nothing against the uninsured – but you were counting on that Medicare. Meanwhile, the financial channels on TV keep warning of inflation that will eat away those savings you still have left.

A friend of yours, a little older, lost everything. Literally everything. He’s working as a limo driver to supplement his Social Security. That’s okay at age 67. But what happens when he turns 77?

You hate President Obama; Michelle even more. It’s not a racial thing. AT ALL. No matter what your daughter says. You’ve worked with black guys during your entire career. But this Obama, he does not come from the America you know. He has this way of looking like he thinks he’s better than you. And the way his wife spends money! Too much flash, too much bling. All on your dime. Then she tells you not to eat at Denny’s. Hey, you’d like to eat at the fancy places she goes, but Denny’s will have to do. Every time you see her you think: Who are these people? How did they rise so high?

You are a Republican. A conservative. Always have been. You voted for Nixon in 1972, your first vote. Ford. Reagan twice. Bush once. (Perot in 1992.) But over the past few years you’ve lost your enthusiasm for the GOP.  Your pay went up under Reagan. Under Bush, it was gas prices that went up. Then they bailed out Wall Street and GM while you got screwed.

You never thought you’d hear yourself say this: but you are pissed at Wall Street. You’ve got nothing against people who get rich honestly. But the big money guys at Goldman Sachs? The guys who loooved Obama? Yeah, what would be so wrong about taxing them to clean up the mess they made? You’ve paid already, through the nose. Why should you pay again? And it’s those same Goldman Sachs guys who are pushing Washington to squeeze your Medicare to balance the budget. Forget that, buddy.

What you want is a candidate who will take the fight to Obama. Really fight him. Mitt Romney? He’s no fighter. He’s a CEO, and you’ve had it with CEOs. Mike Huckabee? Seems like a nice guy, but if you want a sermon, you’ll go to church. Sarah Palin? Sexy sure, but too flakey. Now Donald Trump, he’s kind of a blowhard. But he hates Obama almost as much as you do. You don’t take the birth certificate thing seriously, but if it annoys the liberals, what the hell. Trump says he’s going to get tough with the Chinese, the Arab oil sheikhs, everybody who’s ripping you off. A guy can’t get that rich if he doesn’t have balls, stands to reason.

So maybe you’ll give him a try. Or somebody else. You need help. You need help from somebody who understands what it’s like to be you: not poor, not black, not Mexican, but still hurting, still scared, still looking at a future suddenly a lot bleaker than you ever expected. Somebody. Anybody.

Originally published at The Week.

Recent Posts by David Frum

73 Comments so far ↓

  • Elvis Elvisberg

    Of course, this line of rationale only explains why Trump’s polling around 25 percent among Republicans if there’s a longstanding symbiotic relationship between ethnocentric Republican voters and a right-wing paramedia dedicated to ginning up policy-free, no-solutions resentment of minorities and liberals.

    Here’s some interesting data on attitudes about social insurance and welfare programs that Paul Ryan should have consulted before putting out his “Roadmap to Increase the Deficit for the Next Decade and then Saving Money by Ending Medicare”: http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/03/ethnocentrism-and-small-government-hypocrisy/ “[A]mong white voters being ethnocentric is associated– independent of self-described ideology and other factors– with decreased support for means-tested welfare…. [W]hen it comes to social insurance programs[ ] you actually see the reverse. Ethnocentrism increases support”.

    • Carney

      What slander. Whites are by far the LEAST ethno centric group in America.

      Whites have deliberately, even proudly imposed policies on themselves that disadvantage their own group in order to benefit other groups. Welfare, foreign aid, and racial preferences are only part of it. Leaders from Bill Clinton to Mike Huckabee speak openly about fashioning immigration policy that will reduce whites to minority status, cheerfully and with eagerness.

      No people has ever before chosen to become a minority on territory it controls and lives in, has ever decided to hand control over its destiny to others.

      The unprecedented and radical, even reckless, nature of this extreme LACK of ethnocentrism is breathtaking.

      Meanwhile all other racial groups vote in near blocs, motivated in large degree by an explicit and open racial solidarity that is not only not demonized but even celebrated. They openly seek to maximize their numbers and influence, almost always in effect and sometimes openly at the direct zero sum expense of uncomplaining and often eagerly cooperating whites.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    I think this is spot on.

    “It’s the populism, stupid.”

  • _will_

    Well you’ve just described my father. Great guy, hard worker, educated at a nice state school – but willfully ignorant about the conditions and policies that got him here. And while he’d be hard-pressed to admit it, he did much better under Clinton than Reagan.

    • hisgirlfriday

      This sounds eerily close to my father also, although my parents are a little bit less financially stressed (and less prejudiced) than the person in this scenario because they stuck with the same house they bought in the late ’70s and paid off their house instead of trading in for a newer, bigger one in the housing boom and they had moved enough over to CDs rather than the stock market to still have a fairly comfortable retirement portfolio.

      But even they still get to worry about what the politicians are gonna do when it comes to tinkering with Medicare because the only reason they are still working is they can’t get health insurance on the open market. My dad has had two heart bypasses in the last 10 years and the doctors have recommended he should retire because of how much his job stresses him out, but he can’t get health insurance on the open market because of his preexisting condition. So my dad’s plan for the last couple years has been to work another year until he can get on COBRA and use that to a bridge to getting on Medicare, but now they’re talking about making changes to Medicare? Definitely not what my father wants to hear, no matter how many times Paul Ryan promises it won’t affect people like him over 55.

      Of course, my father is not the type to support a buffoon like Trump because populism doesn’t do any more for him than any of the holy rollers. He’d probably hold his nose and vote for milquetoast, safe, inoffensive Romney. But the general psychology going on for a lot of Republican-minded voters like my father that Frum seems to have channeled into here in this piece is pretty uncanny.

      That said, I actually doubt the majority of Trump supporters make anything above $50,000 generally and I doubt they finished college. Some Trump voters in the flesh, for example:


  • gmckee1985

    Meh. Nobody is even paying attention to the primary race.

    The average person, and the average republican is not politically obsessed. We have more important things to worry about.

    People just hear the name Donald Trump and it’s one of the few they probably recognize out of the Republican field.

  • TAZ

    Occam’s Razor…… those same people are likely just simple conspiracy nuts that were irresponsible with their lives, or are being soaked by irresponsible relatives / friends. And now they are looking for a scape goat (in Obama) by any means necessary.

    Let them eat Trump !

  • armstp

    I think the gloves should come off with regard to Trump. I think the press should start digging up the real dirt on Trump. This guy has got an incredible amount of skeletons in his closet.

    I think you could start with all the womanizing he has done over the years when he was married. This guy use to party with the P Diddy and all the hip hop artists. I am sure there are many sex related stories on Trump. A scandal or two just waiting to come to the surface.

    Then someone should move on to his real estate-gambling “empire”. He drove his businesses into bankruptcy not once, but twice. I am sure there are many many shady deals and big government subsidies and benefits he got over the years.

    Then someone can move on to his taxes. Given his shady business practices and real estate in general, I am sure he has had many tax issues over the years. Has Trump paid all his taxes over the years?

    Then someone could move on to his lobbying both at the city and state level? Has he ever manipulated the system to his favor? Has he ever put politicians in his back pocket. etc. That is generally what real estate developers do. They game the system or manipulate the system through lobbying and political donations. Real estate is one of the biggest scumbag businesses, particularly in NY.

    etc. etc. etc.

    • PracticalGirl

      I think the gloves should come off with regard to Trump

      Amen. And it’s exactly why he has no intentions to run. But all that you mentioned? He’d have to answer questions about it all and make his tax returns public and all sorts of things the man isn’t willing to do.

      Better to snipe loudly for a couple of months while he can keep the press at arms length and garner better ratings/bigger ad dollars than to actually throw himself into the pit.

      As the FF staff likes to tout: You read it here first. Dude Isn’t. Running.

    • Deep South Populist

      armstp // Apr 20, 2011 at 5:16 pm

      I think the gloves should come off with regard to Trump.


      Out of curiosity, why do you feel the gloves should come off? Aren’t you a big Obama supporter?

      It seems to me that if the conventional wisdom is correct and Trump is a weak contender, Obama’s supporters should want the gloves to stay on so that Trump gets the nod and Obama gets an easy win.

      • medinnus

        That’s exactly why Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, and Donald Trump should be tossed into the nearest deep, deep hole; the GOP needs to put forth some intelligent, capable politicians who are not married to the Tea Party manifesto, not Christianists, don’t support military adventurism, who believe in small government, civil rights, the environment, equal protection under the law, and a non-intrusive government – you know, real Conservatives of the Goldwater stripe. These were once the hallmarks of Conservatives and the Republican Party of which I was a proud part. There are no vestiges of this left in the bigoted party of the resentful White Rich and their inbred redneck stooges

    • abj

      “I think the gloves should come off with regard to Trump.”

      I have no doubt they will, armstp. Undoubtedly both Democrats and Republicans are poring over his background as we type. Romney is keeping his powder dry, and the Dems of course would be wise to wait and see if he actually stands a reasonable chance of winning the nomination.

      Unbelievably, he’s actually declared bankruptcy several times, if wikipedia is to be believed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_trump

      He’s also had to defend himself from numerous lawsuits over the years filed by jilted suppliers, creditors and former partners….a simple PACER search would probably turn up a treasure trove of material.

  • Deep South Populist

    David Frum wrote:

    “You need help. You need help from somebody who understands what it’s like to be you: Not poor, not black, not Mexican, but still hurting, still scared, still looking at a future suddenly a lot bleaker than you ever expected. Somebody. Anybody.”

    The two groups losing the most ground in this society are poor Whites and middle class Whites who work in the private sector. This is becoming increasingly obvious. But unlike every other ethnic group, they never get a fair hearing, just belittling drivel like this garbage from David Frum.

    It’s no surprise that Trump is riding high. He is at least pretending that he cares about their grievances, and maybe he does. The GOP elites aren’t even pretending.

    • armstp

      The gloves should come off because Trump has taken the gloves off himself. This birth nonsense means that he should now come under the same kind of scrutiny. Trump has hide so much for so long. If this is all a publicity stunt then people should start taking shots at him as he is doing and for wasting everyones time.

    • Crime Dog

      Black and Hispanic unemployment rates are far worse than those for whites. Every welfare program available to minorities is also available to white people.

  • Trump as the New Wes Clark? | Library Grape

    [...] have to say, though, that David Frum’s narrative here is pretty compelling as to why anyone would support the guy. The gist of it is that it’s [...]

  • PracticalGirl

    To the picture of Trump (all over today):

    Somebody should tell his make-up artist that the color “OMG! Orangutan” is extremely unflattering to The Donald. Then they should say the words: “You’re FIRED!”

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “It seems to me that if the conventional wisdom is correct and Trump is a weak contender, Obama’s supporters should want the gloves to stay on so that Trump gets the nod and Obama gets an easy win.”

    Do you have any idea how often you employ this sort of reasoning? It’s extremely simplistic, generally foolish and often wrong. You sound like the idiots who convince themselves that Palin critics go after her because they’re “afraid that she’ll win”.

    There are people who support Obama only because there is no sane alternative. I would consider voting for someone like Romney — I will probably not consider voting for Trump.

    Finally, some people think that allowing a buffoon to get close to the presidency is dangerous, even if they think it is likely that he’ll lose.

    As for the gloves coming off… we’re a year and a half out and he hasn’t even declared yet.

  • Thanos316

    Hit Trump with enough questions that require some detailed answers about policy, instead of standard Repulsican boilerplate and bloviating, and he’ll blow up faster than the Deepwater Horizon did. He’s too arrogant and nowhere near politically clever enough, in the way that Palin and Bachmann are, to only appear on FOX where he’d be assured to only get the easily-exploitable puffball questions that the other GOPers/TeaBirchers find so beneficial to their image-making.

    • Arms Merchant

      First time I’ve heard Palin and Bachmann described by this crowd as “clever.” :)

      • Thanos316

        Well, clever/cunning in a political animal sort of way. Definitely know how to massage The Base to keep the drones happy even though it’s obvious that neither of them would break above the $100 barrier if they appeared on Jeopardy.

      • Bunker555

        If they both run, they will be the cunning runts.

  • Gus

    This column shows a certain contempt for the middle class. The person described here is, sorry, an idiot.

  • nuser

    What a great article by David Frum. It is a little mini Pulitzer gem , and should be carried by politicians
    running for office. Not only does it apply to Republicans , but in many instances to Democrats as well.
    “It is not a racial thing At All”, used to be :”Oh! I am not prejudiced, BUT… Or my jewish neighbour,
    but never , my protestant neighbour. If I had dime for every comment ,I would have quite a few dollars. A most insightful article, Thank You!

  • Arms Merchant

    One word why Trump will never be the Republican nominee: Kelo. As a developer, he thought it was just dandy.

    Now, he could run as a Third Party Candidate. You liberals should encourage him to do so, because that will assure Obama’s reelection.

  • icfantv

    Hmmm, no mention of Bush Jr.’s unpaid wars or the disastrously expensive Medicare, Part D – also unpaid for, or the tax cuts for the wealthy. But noooooooo, those don’t affect taxes or anything.

    Come on David. I know you’re a conservative, but don’t be a d-bag. Seriously. What a joke.

  • nhthinker

    “You are 62 years old. White. Go to church on Easter Sunday. …”

    So this is the projection of a 50ish Canadian-American Jewish journalist/blogger onto an older middle class American that might consider Trump.

    Can you do the projection of the inner-city female considering the drug dealer as a baby-daddy for the baby she’s thinking about having?

    How about a projection for the atheist gay man considering moving to a state with a lower age of consent?

    At least you got a pay day for it. John Edwards could channel dead children and made much more. You need to work harder.

    Trying to do a projection onto a caricature of a person whose decisions you don’t respect is never anything but prejudicial bullshit.

  • longde

    Shorter David Frum: A financially irresponsible, willfully ignorant, prejudiced guy who watches too much reality TV.

    As someone noted above, every other demographic has it far worse than the described useless eater.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “The person described here is, sorry, an idiot.”

    Not a complete, egregious idiot, just an average American idiot. That’s why it is spot on.

  • nuser

    “OOf,Frum , look what you flushed out” : Nasties! Judge not , what they say, they know naught.

  • anniemargret

    Depends what ‘Main Street’ he’s talking about. Main Street in downtown Mobile perhaps. Not Main Street in the big cities of America.

    Trump to the rest of America, is just another millionaire who likes to squeeze people, be a bully, call the shots, and make more money on the millions good ole Dad left him.

    It’s hilarious to think that “Main Street” average America would look to this this guy who is the epitome of hucksterism and a millionaire to boot. He has never known a day in his life where he had to worry when he put his head on the pillow at night to make ends meet. Not exactly a rags to riches story, is it?

    This is just another example of how middle class Republicanism is so far out from reality with their politicians that it makes them appear to be clueless and self-sabotaging.

  • sweatyb

    Trying to do a projection onto a caricature of a person whose decisions you don’t respect is never anything but prejudicial bullshit.

    must’ve hit a nerve.

  • nuser

    There isn’t anything hilarious about Trump , Palin , Bachman ,Gingrich , Huckabee ,….
    Here we have a guy, a staunch republican (Frum) being totally honest and forward , and out comes the racist and anti jewish crap!Half this and half that ,” gimme me a break.”

  • jg bennet

    John Adams wrote Otis Warren in 1776, he agreed with the Greeks and the Romans, that, “Public Virtue cannot exist without private, and public Virtue is the only Foundation of Republics.” Adams insisted, “There must be a positive Passion for the public good, the public Interest, Honour, Power, and Glory, established in the Minds of the People, or there can be no Republican Government, nor any real Liberty.

    And this public Passion must be Superior to all private Passions. Men must be ready, they must pride themselves, and be happy to sacrifice their private Pleasures, Passions, and Interests, nay their private Friendships and dearest connections, when they Stand in Competition with the Rights of society.”

    Adams worried that a businessman might have financial interests that conflicted with republican duty; indeed, he was especially suspicious of banks……Or even worse free traders………

    What if Trump means what he says, that he loves the country and is willing to unzip his financial “fly” to prove that yes indeed he is “The Johnny Wadd Holmes” of modern day American patriotism?

    What if?

  • anniemargret

    jg: Will he ‘unzip’ his tax records? His business dealings? His womanizing? His three marriages?

    Can he answer questions without hedging like Palin did? Can he be diplomatic if the occasion arose, or is he proud of bullying his way through life to get what he wants? Is he Presidential material?


  • anniemargret

    armstp: The gloves should come off about Trump. He raised the birther question from the get-go. Preened that he ‘knew’ something about Obama; that his minions were all over Hawaii combing the records for the dirt on Obama.

    So far, he has come up with nothing, other than what was already said by the Obama-haters. Nothing new there.

    So either he has to put up or shut up.

    Since he decided to use innuendo and instigation as his standard-bearers for running for the Presidency, then it is only incumbent upon the rest of America to ask him to release all his records….all of them – tax/business/medical in case there is something there the voter should know.

  • nhthinker

    “must’ve hit a nerve.”

    Not even close…

    Hitting a nerve is what happens to Frum when Carly Fiorina uses the phrase “Breaking Bread” in reference to Passover and Frum feels a need to write ten paragraphs about the insensitivity of it.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “must’ve hit a nerve.”

    You’re talking about a person who suggests the following to those concerned about global warming: “kill your pets and become vegans and get sterilized (and sterilize your children)”.

    Rationality is not on the menu with people like nh”thinker”.

    • nhthinker

      You’re going off topic with your wild ad hominem attack.
      You must be too stupid to recognize sarcasm.

      BTW, is US CO2 production dropping, you idiot? Do you need more evidence before you’ll admit it?

  • seeker656

    Enough is enough.

    I’m a 75-year-old white guy who worked for a company for 28 years before it went bankrupt in 1991. The bankruptcy was a mess and a significant part of my retirement resources went down the drain. At 55 I had skills that were not marketable. My wife went back to work and I returned to college finishing my Bachelor’s degree and earning a Masters and post-Masters while training for a new late life career. We survived the .com bust and the housing bust, but we both still work in our own small business.

    Throughout this time, we were demeaned and stigmatized by the radio talk show hosts who made millions making liberal a dirty word. And now we have a Republican party home to the advocates of war (two of my grandsons are in the military), advocates of guns in every home, believers in the mantra that government is the problem, and generally macho guys and gals who with a few exceptions dare not challenge the inanities of the faux conservative talk show millionaires who feed the Tea Party patriots’ anger.

    Now along comes the Republican Party passing the Ryan budget. Should I feel grateful that the Social Security and health care my wife and I benefit from is protected at a significant cost to younger generations? Pray tell, what do I say to my adult offspring, my 14 grandchildren and my two great-grandchildren? “Sorry, I’ve got mine you’ll have to fend for yourselves.” How could I justify supporting a program that will do away with Medicare without any serious attempt to reduce health care costs, putting in jeopardy their senior years?

    As importantly, what do I say to myself, nearing the end of my life as I wrestle with what Erik Erikson identified as the eight crises? Do I look back and believe that I lived a life of integrity or do I despair because my generation and I squandered the money that has been borrowed for the last 30 or more years as we selfishly took care of ourselves with little regard for the future of our progeny?

    Or, do I continue raising at least one small voice supporting policies that may help create a better future for those that I love?

  • jg bennet

    Trump never had his gloves on and the others are just figuring that out while waking up in the hospital…

    You know how I said that Trump will have broad appeal?

    Here is proof

    Scott Paul
    Executive Director, Alliance for American Manufacturing :

    Apr. 18, 2011 on Politico
    “I’m not sure even Donald Trump’s wife can read his mind, so I do not profess to know how seriously he can be taken. But I do know this: the media and punditry are underestimating his appeal to middle America. My Indiana friends love him because he speaks his mind.

    And here is the story that everyone is missing: Trump’s outspoken criticism of our appeasement of China’s economic wishes really resonates with broad swaths of American voters. No candidate in the Republican primary talks that way. Nor does our president. But voters are hungry for someone who says “enough!” to the outsourced jobs and debt we send to China.”………….

    The very very interesting part about Paul is he is not a republican kind of guy….

    Mr. Paul brings 20 years of experience in policy, politics and advocacy to Alliance for American Manufacturing “AAM.”

    Prior to forming the Alliance, Mr. Paul was the principal lobbyist for the Industrial Union Council and was a trade lobbyist at the AFL-CIO, where he led the labor movement’s legislative initiatives on international trade, manufacturing and foreign policy issues.

  • jg bennet

    Today from the liberal left wing Ed Show on MSNBC…..Trump is the man!

    This 15 minutes is well worth your time and will show you just how Trump can win in a landslide…

    The Tea Party and the Unions will go for him

    • ram6968

      you twit….ed was mocking him…trump isn’t running and even if he did, he’d be doing obama a favor….ed wishs sarah would run too

    • MSheridan

      Today from the liberal left wing Ed Show on MSNBC

      Ed Schultz was an idiot back when he was a Republican radio commentator and he’s still an idiot now. All too often, he mistakes shouting for substantial debate. Even when he’s supposedly on my side of an issue, I have great difficulty watching him take on people from the other side, because he does such a piss-poor job of it. He may have changed his views, but the liberal left wing has much better public representatives than Ed.

    • DirtyLibrul

      …I fear I need to tell you some more bad news: Stephen Colbert is not a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative. I know, I know…this is a shock. But it’s not true, he-like that dastardly Ed Schultz-is using that dirtiest of weapons: sarcasm.

  • rbottoms

    Or, do I continue raising at least one small voice supporting policies that may help create a better future for those that I love?

    Not everyone worships in the Church of the Selfish Prick.

    My father fought a war against the Nazis for men who would lynch him for daring to vote and who sent him home in the Jim Crow car after becoming an officer.

    I served for 13 years to protect the disco owner who doesn’t admit blacks, and the bar owner who doesn’t serve niggers, and scared irrational people who hate “Barry Hussein” and swallow birther bullshit whole.

    We have to fight opportunists like Donald Trump even harder than the average Republican asshole because Trump is using their fears even more nakedly than the jellyfish who won’t condemn the Confederate flag, and weasel out of flat out repudiating the birther nonsense.

    When we warned them don’t invade Iraq they didn’t listen, and when we said don’t strip Afghanistan of the resources needed to fight the Taliban they didn’t listen.

    When they said it was possible to get water to hundreds thirsty and starving in the Superdome after Katrina they didn’t listen.

    And when Obama was elected in a historic moment that could heal, we said using fear and conspiracy to claw your way back to power in 2010 would be a very, very bad thing, perhaps even a fatal blow to the veneer of comity we need to live in a country together they didn’t listen, called us crazy, anti-American.

    And now here is David Frum, scared that the beast that has been nurtured in the GOP basement for a quarter century, feed a constant diet of Limbaugh & Beck & has escaped.

    It says one thing over and over again, “take our country back.”

    And there’s nothing left to feed it except the members of its own party.


    • Bulldoglover100

      I could NOT agree more Rbottoms. As a white, 52 year old Republican I am sickened by the course some in my party have taken. I voted both times for Bush and have been ashamed every since because in the end? He and Cheney sold me out and lied to me. People in my own party call me a RINO because I refuse to stoop to the level of stupidity or racism that will make them happy/comfortable while a Black man is in the White House yet all they give me to run against him are people like Trump? Bachmann? Palin? I turn on Fox News and they lie to me! Any “News” Org. that has to apologize over 1000 times in 1 year for getting the “facts” wrong? is a tool used by someone making money off the backs of the scared, uneducated or racist in this country. I do NOT support abortion, I hate the fact that people are in my country enjoying the benefits I worked for all my life and I do not want the Govt. telling me what I can do in my own home but now? MY OWN PARTY is telling me what I can do! Many scream about getting Govt. out of their lives then want to dictate what others can do! It is the height of hypocrisy! ANY chance we have of regaining the White House in 2012 are nil at this point and the Birthers/Tea party voters do not have the numbers to affect a National election so the party is divided.
      I want just ONE reasonable, electable person that I can vote for that I do not have to be ashamed to vote for or admit that I did. The Ryan budget? was a joke and bridge to far for me to support because no one is going to take away the things I have worked, and paid for, all my life…at least not with my vote! At this rate? we will lose the House in 2012 and then perhaps people will begin to realize that the nut jobs need to be the ones shunned from the GOP.

    • DirtyLibrul

      That was awesome.

      It’s a sad state of affairs that would necessitate such an eloquent dissertation, but it’s right on nonetheless.

  • Gramps

    Here’s my weapon…
    Here’s my rucksack…
    Here’s my boots…

  • talkradiosucks.com

    Once again rbottoms derails a thread with his racism and hate.

    seeker656 said nothing even remotely justifying your obnoxious spew. It is not being a “selfish prick” to want a better future for your grandchildren. You’re attacking a guy who isn’t even in support of your usual targets of vitriol.

    I also find it interesting that some find it “selfish” for people who work hard to believe that coughing up 50% of their marginal income is enough, but not “selfish” for millions to get paid money year after year for doing nothing productive for society, and still to demand more.

  • TJ Parker

    Now change your scenario just a tad: your sad bigot is 55 years old, not 62. Uh oh. Republicans told you that they’d protect your Medicare, and now they want to gut it. You’ve been paying your entire life. You’ll keep paying to provide that 62 year old with his Medicare. But when you retire, the GOP wants to give you a voucher that won’t even keep up with your medical costs. And that’s assuming that you can even buy insurance. But that same GOP wants to repeal Obamacare too, the one thing that could even offer a sliver of promise that you *could* buy some insurance, although still no promise that you’ll be able to afford it.

    Now you truly feel f**ked. And not in the good way. Who is on your side?

    Nah. Trump is not a story of reason. It is a story of unreason. The GOP has spent two years stirring outrage about trivia. That’s their issue, such as it is. And Trump is a master of trivia. He is a mirror of the GOP. He’s more vulgar than its ruling elites, and more vulgar than the elected politicans, who have always liked to paint their gay bashing and China bashing and immigrant bashing with a veneer of acceptability and reason. But Trump has trumped them: he is shameless and vulgar. He appeals directly to their base, who – as Tea Party protests demonstrated for years – are not constrained by shame. He is the face of the vulgar base. “He’s one of us.”

    Look in the mirror, dude. Trump, like Limbaugh and Beck and Palin, are the face of the party that you have become.

  • sinz54

    According to the polls I’ve seen, Trump has not yet caught on among Republican base voters.

    And if he doesn’t catch on with them, he can’t get the GOP nomination and that’s the end of his candidacy, no matter what the rest of Main Street thinks of him.

    True, he could run as an Independent like Ross Perot did. But so far at least, Trump doesn’t come off like Perot. Ross Perot, from the outset, was talking about specific economic issues and offering specific proposals. Trump has said almost nothing except wallow in “birtherism” and offer slogans.

    After Obama’s “hope and change” vapidity of 2008 (which has now become a joke used by his critics), let’s not go with any other candidates who offer a slogan in lieu of specifics.

    Don’t offer “hope.”
    Don’t offer “change.”
    Don’t offer diffuse free-floating anger.

    Tell us precisely what you would do about Libya, China, ObamaCare, etc.

  • jg bennet

    Try looking past the birther thing and listen to Trump’s message on manufacturing and bringing jobs BACK to America.

    Obama and every Republican OTHER THAN TRUMP supports our current trade policies and here is just a small part of what those policies get us or rather don’t get us……….

    Michael Mandel, the chief economist for BusinessWeek, was recently doing some research for a textbook he’s revising when he stumbled upon a surprising entry in the Federal Registry. On March 21, the U.S. Air Force waived the “Buy American” provision of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 for a construction project at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska. As workers tried to build a few stimulus-backed housing units, it became apparent that a number of simple domestic items couldn’t be procured from American manufacturers – namely, ceiling fans, shower rods, towel racks, toilet-paper holders, and all manner of screws and fixtures.

    According to the registry entry, a contracting official has determined that the above items of manufactured goods are not produced in the United States in sufficient and reasonably available quantities and of a satisfactory quality. The domestic nonavailability determination for these products is based on extensive market research and thorough investigation of the domestic manufacturing landscape. This research identified that these products are manufactured almost exclusively in China.

    In fiscal year 2009, more than 44,000 waivers of federal “Buy American” provisions were granted, worth nearly $14 billion. On his blog, Mandel writes that the Air Force waiver in particular “certifies the weakness of domestic manufacturing in America,” though he also questions whether all the household items listed are actually unavailable in the U.S., given that, according to him, the American production of nuts and bolts has been climbing in recent years.

    Similarly, the Alliance for American Manufacturing (AAM) wonders whether there isn’t a “single American manufacturer” producing the screws required for the Eielson project.

    “There’s a great deal of evidence that many agencies, including the Department of Defense, don’t look very wide or deep for procurement,” AAM’s Executive Director, Scott Paul, told HuffPost. “Some agencies are much more aggressive about enforcing it than others.”

    But in this case, it seems the collated screws in question are certifiably unavailable in the States. Jennifer Baker Reid of the Industrial Fasteners Institute, a trade group for nuts-and-bolts manufacturers, says such screws are “largely, if not entirely, imports” from China nowadays. The waiver, Reid says, “appears to have been issued appropriately based on market research.”

    In the case of the Eielson project, it may be more troubling that the Air Force did its due diligence and still couldn’t find a supplier. “It’s not like China has a competitive advantage in making screws,” says Paul. “Shame on us if we can’t make them.”…………..

    Pentagon Loses Control of Bombs to China Metal Monopoly

    Do you guys think this is a good thing? I guess you could say that China is for sure screwing us :) .

    Trump haters please explain to me why you support our current trade policies and the politico’s who support them while claiming to be pro American at the same time.

    • ram6968

      hello in there….trump is saying nothing of substance…he’s just “pushing buttons”……and your jumping like a toad with electrodes attached

    • Primrose

      Once Trump went to the birther thing, he lost the right to be heard seriously on other topics.

    • valkayec

      JG, I’ll admit to being more than a bit skeptical of our current free trade policies. I’m not convinced that the agreements have provided equal benefits on both sides. That said, there are a couple of other things to consider:

      1) One of the first things investors say to new businesses seeking venture funds or planning an IPO is “what is your China strategy?” Meaning, of course, when do you plan to move your facilities to China or Vietnam or S. Korea or some other low cost labor market? Given a free market system and global labor markets, we can’t deman these companies keep their manufacturing in the U.S. or to stop outsourcing. So, how do you get investors, etc., to end their quest for a “China strategy”?

      2) If you do throw up the 25% tariffs that Trump advocates, what will be the logical consequences? In the ’30s, the Smoot-Hawley bill was passed that erected trade tariffs with the U.K. The UK revolted and erected trade tariffs and barriers to U.S. goods. In short, the trade war escalated until global prices skyrocketed. Not a good outcome.

      3) If a high tariff is placed on Chinese goods, or low cost goods from any low cost labor market, how will those higher prices affect middle income Americans? Higher prices? At a time when people are struggling to make ends meet, and when so many are out of work, do we really want to see prices prices significantly for the things Americans need?

      I’ll be the first to admit that something is wrong with our trade policy, but I’m not convinced Trump is right either. I can’t see China simply folding to Trump’s demands. I’m sure the more hardliners expected to take over after their next election will laugh him out of the country.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “Try looking past the birther thing…”

    If people are focusing on that it’s because Trump is focusing on it. Maybe you should address your advice to him.

    “…and listen to Trump’s message on manufacturing and bringing jobs BACK to America.”

    Starting a trade war with China will not bring manufacturing jobs back to America.

    • TJ Parker

      Steal Libyan oil and start a trade war with China? This is a responsible message? Talk about thuggish!

  • jg bennet


    we are already in a trade war with china and losing badly!

    perhaps you are too naive or free trade propagandized to see that we are in a war? well open your eyes and put down the free trade kool-aid and if you have the courage to accept your error read this it is from the horses mouth.

    we are losing the trade war big time!!

    china has already decimated our manufacturing base and you know what? that is how wars are won.

    once a nations manufacturing base is destroyed it is to the victor goes the spoils. look at the south in the civil war they lost largely because the north had ten times the manufacturing base. we defeated germany by destroying their manufacturing base it is old school how to win a war 101…..

    According to Forbes, the United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs per month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001. Hundreds of formerly thriving industries in the United States are being totally wiped out. China uses every trick in the book to win trade battles. They deeply subsidize their domestic industries, they openly steal technology, they blatantly manipulate currency rates and they allow their citizens to be paid slave labor wages. So yes, the products coming from China are cheaper, but in the process tens of thousands of factories in the U.S. are shutting down, millions of jobs are being lost and the ability of America to create wealth is being compromised.

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  • Primrose

    I take issue with the section that lets our composite guy off the hook on racism. Michelle Obama has to much bling, compared to whom? McCain’s clothes horse wife? Or Laura Bush who wore exactly the same outfits, only with more half sleeves. And Obama’s way of looking at things makes him seem like he knows better than you?

    I see, so a man from an old, old upper class family one so old that it can get a non-academic son into Yale, and a secret society isn’t an elitist? But the son of single mother who worked his way up through the ranks and spent 3 years working for the poor is an elitist? And how is buying and cooking vegetables beyond the means of a family of two earning 120K? Or the first lady encouraging the public to do exactly what your doctor advises elitist?

    Sorry but the way people analyze these two people does come down to an us-them dynamic. This composite guy may not agree with Obama but there is no reason to hate, hate, hate him. I’m willing to grant that only part of the hate is racist, but all of it is tribalism. Conservatives of this guy’s type have decided that any one not like him is not a full American citizen, and therefore when they look him in the eye, they are looking down on him because they don’t respect he is in charge.

    Well, guess what this composite guy is the one who is an elitist, the one who looks down on everyone else. I guess that’s why Trump is so attractive.

  • rbottoms

    I don’t hate anyone, I do despise a political party and a political philosophy. The GOP and Conservatism respectively. When you figure out the difference between a party and a person get back to me. Republicans become apoplectic and incensed when the idea that their party could ever cumulatively because thought of as racist. But thirty years of watermelon jokes, birther bullshit, and irrational fearful old people’s actions have done just that.

    So unless you’ve legally changed your name to Republican Party, or Donald Trump, then you have nothing to worry about. But if either of those are your name, well fuck you very much.

  • jg bennet

    This picture is just too funny to not put here but this is not funny…..Times are changing and like it or not free trade has terminal cancer.

    A New Economic Paradigm

    04/20/11 Singapore, Singapore – Since the 1980s, a culture of debt has arisen in the United States. That change was the consequence of a misguided trade policy that gave rise to a current account deficit of unprecedented size. Between 1982 and 2008, the United States imported $7.4 trillion more than it exported. It financed the shortfall on credit. That credit transformed the structure of the US economy.

    Every country’s balance of payments must balance. Thus, between 1982 and 2008, $7.4 trillion in foreign capital entered the United States to finance that deficit. That amount was considerably more than the entire amount of US government debt held by the public at the end of 2008, $5.8 trillion. As the money flowed in, it created a credit-fueled economic bubble—just as foreign capital inflows blew Latin America into an economic bubble in the 1970s and the Asian crisis countries into economic bubbles in the 1990s.

    In the process, the structure of the US economy changed. The manufacturing sector was decimated when exposed to ultra-low-wage foreign competition, while the service sector came to dominate the economy and employment as credit-driven asset price inflation created the wealth that made many of those services profitable.

    Consequently, over less than three decades, as the US trade deficit grew to previously unimaginable levels, the country’s economic growth model became one of credit-financed consumption that depended on ever-increasing amounts of credit each year to sustain it. In 2008, when the private sector could no longer bear the burden of so much debt, that economic paradigm collapsed.

    That paradigm of debt-fueled consumption can never be resuscitated. The US economy is now on government-funded life support that cannot be paid for over the long run. The limited nature of government resources makes it inevitable that a new economic paradigm will emerge over the next five to ten years. The future of the United States—and the rest of the world—will be determined by the form that new paradigm takes.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “When you figure out the difference between a party and a person get back to me.”

    Parties are comprised of people. Your hatred towards both the Republican party and to many actual individuals is palpable.

    Deciding to castigate all of the millions of people in the Republican Party as “racist” might make it easier for you to vent your obviously unlimited bile, but it’s wrong. You are unwittingly engaging in the very same stereotyping you oppose.

    • abj

      Reason and logic won’t get you anywhere with that angry troll, TRS. It’s better just to ignore him/her. When I see one of his/her posts, I just roll my eyes and scroll past it.

  • jg bennet


    china will cave because their leaders are basically the mafia not patriots and could care less about their country/people or global politics and more about their personal fortunes………….

    WikiLeaks: China’s Politburo a cabal of business empires

    China’s ruling Politburo is a cabal of business empires that puts vested interests over the needs of the poor and curtails media freedoms to avoiding having shady business deals exposed in the press, according to a leaked US government diplomatic cable.

    The damning description of China’s secretive leadership machinations also described how the descendants of China’s Communist revolutionaries – known as “princelings” – derided officials from less august revolutionary backgrounds as mere “shopkeepers”.
    The assessment of what motivates China’s opaque top-level decision-makers was relayed to Washington in July 2009 in one of the 250,000 cables published by the WikiLeaks website.
    “China’s top leadership had carved up China’s economic ‘pie,’” the US embassy contact said, “creating an ossified system in which ‘vested interests’ drove decision-making and impeded reform as leaders maneuvered to ensure that those interests were not threatened.” The US embassy contact also asserted there were no “reformers” within the top Communist Party leadership, only competing factions that sought to protect their business empires from attack by in-coming leaderships.
    The source said that it was “well known” that former Chinese premier Li Peng and his family controlled China’s “electric power interests” while the country’s security tsar Zhou Yongkang controlled the state monopoly of the oil sector.

    The wife of China’s premier Wen Jiabao, a popular figure in China often affectionately referred to as “grandpa Wen” for his feelings for the common man, is said to control China’s “precious gems” sector, while Jia Qinglin, ranked fourth in the Politburo, has “major Beijing real estate developments”.

    the rest of the article is here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8184216/WikiLeaks-Chinas-Politburo-a-cabal-of-business-empires.html

  • Raskolnik

    “China’s top leadership had carved up China’s economic ‘pie,’” the US embassy contact said, “creating an ossified system in which ‘vested interests’ drove decision-making and impeded reform as leaders maneuvered to ensure that those interests were not threatened.”

    In all fairness, that does rather sound like Capitol Hill.

    That said–Free Tibet!

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