Michael Wolff has a sharp theory:
I am revising my theory of what the Obama administration is doing in its frontal assault on Fox: I think they want us to take sides. Are you a Fox person or not a Fox person? And I think they want to identify Fox as the standard bearer of American conservatism. If you’re a conservative, you’re for Fox (ie, is that who you want to be?).
It’s a perfect convergence: What is good for Fox is good for Obama, and what is good for Obama is good for Fox, and their mutual victim is the Republican party.
42 responses so far
1 balconesfault // Oct 20, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Cenk Ungar had a great editorial about this yesterday.
There are three categories of news media:
Opinion Outlets
Keith Olbermann
Bill O’Reilly
The Young Turks
Wall Street Journal Editorial Side
Partisan Press (Ideologically Driven Press)
The Nation
Fox News Channel
National Review
Mother Jones
Drudge Report
Straight News
CNN
ABC News
MSNBC News Programs
New York Times
Wall Street Journal (Non-Editorial)
Fox has a right to exist, just as The Nation and Mother Jones and the National Review do. They’re ideologically driven media, and often ideologically driven media can do very good investigatory journalism ahead of the “Straight News”.
But they are ideologically driven – and it has been to the detriment of the country that they have been treated as a “Straight News” outlet for years. If Fox News will just admit that they are partisan, and functionally an arm of the Republican Party, it will be much easier to include them in the discussion.
2 WillyP // Oct 20, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Are we to believe that only Fox News is ideologically driven? What klutz put The Nation and Fox News in the same category??? Who is Cenk Ungar?
Poll after poll shows newsrooms to be made up of 70% or more Democrats. Editorial boards often moreso. To act as if completely impartial news reporting is possible is the sham. Networks should declare themselves as biased one way, and then we can stop having this stupid debate over what networks lean where. Not very much would even have to change; what known tacitly would simply be made explicit.
3 LFC // Oct 20, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Fox News is an message outlet for the GOP. This gets the message out, but obliterates any shred of credibility. Over the past decade, the have maintained that they are credible and independent, when neither is true.
Obama has decided that since they repeat spin, inaccuracies, and outright lies if they suit their audience, their lack of credibility needs to be a part of the public record. He is painting them as an enemy of truth and reasoned debate. Just as no reasonable person believes that Air America is a good source of non-partisan news, Obama is making sure than no reasonable person believes that Fox is anything more than a partisan opinion outlet.
And this public removal of their fig leaf pisses Fox the hell off.
4 Cforchange // Oct 20, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Fox has very much influenced GOP behavior – roaring about family values during policy programming then it’s off to crotch with the likes of Family Guy. They have a solid history here remember 90210 or Married with Children – always on the cutting edge of a seedy, exploitive,mean streak. Plus how can any of it be considered serious with all the good looking teleprompting blonds?
I have always claimed NOT to be a Fox person. I’ve never had a problem telling someone that I’m a Republican but I am not a Fox fan in the least. That station has always sucked, it’s just some of you have been pulling a RipVanWinkle. Try no TV, try Hulu – there are options.
Just how does a Democrat abuse the non Fox fan – trust me it’s a conversation stumper.
5 Raider1 // Oct 20, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Ifc is your claim that Fox has no credibility? Why exactly? Tell me what this station has reported that is false?
If FOX has no crdibililty, Good God then what do the “mainstream media” outlets have?? There was never an election in which the media was more in the tank for one candidate (guess who) than in this one. The coverage was one-sided…statistically proven. Legitimate stories like Obama’s lack of any record, his associations with far left and nefarious ( even criminal) characters completely glossed over. Sarah Palin was absolutley ambushed on two occasions. The newsrooms and editorial boards of this country have been overwhelmingly liberal for over a generation.
Now along comes Fox which leans to the right. Oh what a crime. And now it is being painted as fake journalism? Why? Was it their breaking the story of ACORN? (Since denind congressional monies). Was it exposing an avowed communist like Van Jones? (Since resigned). Was it asking questions that were not along the lines of softballs tossed to Obama on a regular basis by the fawning washignton beltway reporting crowd?
“You all covered me in the campaign…most of you voted for me.” Obama at the press club dinner. The ‘hey when you got me you got me’ laughter in the crowd validated this statement.
And YET…Fox is the news outlet that has lost credibility??? Give me a break. Fox is KILLING IT in the ratings–among many dems and, worst for Obama, independents. And the WHite House knows this last voting group, getting information from a source that doesn’t get a ‘tingly feeling up the leg” when Obama speaks (MSNBC’s Chris Matthews) is a real threat. So the Chicago hatchet men are out to get ‘em.
The Left is very tolerant and loves diversity…so long as that doesn’t mean tolerant of diverse opinions! FOX’s very power shows how truly descredited the left wing media complex has become. Their hold on information and truth has been broken and they are besides themselves. I love it.
6 balconesfault // Oct 20, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Ifc is your claim that Fox has no credibility? Why exactly? Tell me what this station has reported that is false?
First, one doesn’t have to conclude that Fox has no credibility to consider them purely partisan. There are many politicians out there who I consider to be credible – but hyper-partisan. One doesn’t need to lie to be partisan.
That said, we can start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRcV_ARr-I4
But if you want more evidence that Fox News is currently acting as a political organization at this stage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRx5ethd8JU&feature=player_embedded
And tell me – how many times on Fox have you heard that ACORN has never been convicted on any counts of voter fraud … that ACORN themselves were responsible for notifying election boards that they had questionable voter registrations they were submitting … that a number of the Federal Attorneys fired by Rove in 2006 – most career Republicans – were fired for refusing to bring charges against ACORN that they considered unsubstantiated?
No, you’ll never hear that side of the ACORN story from Fox. Fox may actually have highlighted some things about ACORN that needed highlighted, but you can count on them to never provide evidence that undermines or counterbalances their claims.
Another proof? Find me one time FOX has launched a substantive investigation into any Republican politician who was in a position of power. Just one.
7 ottovbvs // Oct 20, 2009 at 5:33 pm
……..Who the heck doesn’t think Fox News is an arm of the GOP……..Does the sun rise in the east and set in the west……..even most Republicans I know recognize Fox is Republican central……..that’s why they watch it……..why else did Cheney have all the white house tv’s tuned to Fox…. It’s very entertaining watching the right die in the last ditch for Fox’s impartiality because it just confirms the general view that this is a group in deep denial…….David’s right…….it’s a win win for Obama and for Fox……..but a loose loose for the GOP.
8 Arch // Oct 20, 2009 at 6:00 pm
“You all covered me in the campaign…most of you voted for me.” Obama at the press club dinner.
I was going to post the same quote but I see Raider beat me to it. Of course his next line was “Apologies to the Fox table.”
9 ottovbvs // Oct 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm
raider1 // Oct 20, 2009 at 3:50 pm
………Does this guy need medicine or something…….early Alzheimers?……cognitive dissonance?………these guys literally are on another planet when it comes to their comprehension of reality……….Boy did Carville nail these folks……..and THEY are 70% of a party with the lowest popular id since the thirties……..Death Wish x1…..or thereabouts
10 ottovbvs // Oct 20, 2009 at 7:09 pm
ireign // Oct 20, 2009 at 6:30 pm
“Frum’s conclusion that what is good for Fox is bad for the Republican party defies logic.”
…….the only thing that defies logic is your analysis half of which is a petty personal attack on Frum……logic says (as did my father) that you are known by the company you keep……..most people have no doubt that Fox is a Republican channel loaded with ranters like Beck and Hannity, just as they know Limbaugh is a drug taking blowhard……..as the bible reminds us…..touch pitch and you will be defiled….so if the the GOP associates with crazies it will be perceived as crazy……apart from by those that are already crazy of course……of which you are such a perfect specimen
11 ottovbvs // Oct 20, 2009 at 7:36 pm
ireign // Oct 20, 2009 at 6:30 pm
……And from a guy that has about 200 x more savvy than you do
http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/310/ive-changed-my-mind-on-the-obama-fox-showdown.html?utm_source=otg&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20091020#
12 Moderate // Oct 20, 2009 at 7:47 pm
On the contrary, his conclusion is quite logical.
1) Fox News is strongly associated with the Republican Party; right or wrong, this is the public perception.
2) Fox News cares more about their ratings than the fortunes of the Republican Party.
3) “Bad” behavior (sensationalism, screaming, attacks) is good for ratings, and therefore is good for Fox.
4) Fox’s “bad” behavior reflects poorly on the Republican Party.
Frum has made this argument many times before.
13 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 9:51 pm
so does frum agree with what the white house is doing? maybe somebody should ask obama why the war on fox during his next presscon or interview?
14 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 9:53 pm
alinsky #12.
15 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 10:14 pm
i think a better question is: whose side are you on in this White House war against FOX?
and what does that say about you if you take the White House side or FOX’s?
16 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 10:50 pm
david, do you remember a film called “Wag the Dog” where this administration concocted a fake war to distract the public from the admin’s domestic problems and scandals?
17 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 10:57 pm
whose side are you on? David or Goliath?
18 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 11:22 pm
of course foxnews doesn’t mind if in the past outlets like msnbc or media matters would call on a jihad against FOX.
they obviously failed.
but now with this american president and the US government joining it’s left allies in waging war vs. FOX, that another issue. the last time an administration did that was during the nixon presidency.
so again, i ask david, do you approve of what this white house is doing? and if yes, please explain.
19 Churl // Oct 21, 2009 at 12:10 am
“Why is the White House Attacking Fox?”
Try this one: Fox News is reporting stories that the Obama Administration finds inconvenient and therefore wishes to quash.
I know, this is pretty simple and lacks the panache of Michael Wolf’s doublecross backflip theory but Occam’s Razor might be of use here.
20 johnmarzan // Oct 21, 2009 at 12:57 am
i disagree with NYTimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/weekinreview/18davidcarr.html
FOXNEWS did not win anything. as long as the people occupying the White house is still around, they haven’t won jack.
besides, when putin waged war against the media in russia, who won?
when chavez waged war against Venezeulan media outlets, who won? it was a effin bloodbath for christsakes.
21 steelyblades // Oct 21, 2009 at 2:18 am
It’s a pretty good strategy, really. You “legitimize” the voice of your opposition, by simply saying how much they’re in the back pocket of the opposing party. Then the louder they shout, the more credibility they sacrifice in the eyes of those who aren’t fierce adherents of their specific ideology. FOX News can yell about whatever they want, and Obama’s team is betting that folks who don’t already drink the FOX Kool-Aid will automatically tune it out as a matter of course. Nice bit of gamesmanship.
Of course, it helps that FOX is heavily populated with morons who say abhorrently stupid things on a daily basis. If the Obama administration wanted to recruit a bunch of idiots who were guaranteed to make conservatives look bad, they couldn’t have made a better choice.
22 Crazy, Like a Fox, Maybe « Just Above Sunset // Oct 21, 2009 at 3:07 am
[...] That may be granting Fox too much importance, but David Frum, George Bush’s speechwriter, and the man who came up with that Axis of Evil formulation, and now unhappy with how nasty and brainless his side had become, sees it another way: [...]
23 Raider1 // Oct 21, 2009 at 9:04 am
Otto…do you believe that NBC (espeically MSNBC) and CNN are arms of teh DNC?
24 sinz54 // Oct 21, 2009 at 10:24 am
Today’s Politico.com has an article on why the White House is attacking Fox News. That’s not their only target. They’ve also been smearing and marginalizing the U.S. Chamber of Commerce for its refusal to get on board with Obama policies. And of course they’ve attacked Limbaugh and Wall Street financial firms (after just having bailed them out). It’s all part of a coordinated strategy to crush conservatives:
25 LFC // Oct 21, 2009 at 10:40 am
sinz54 said… They’ve also been smearing and marginalizing the U.S. Chamber of Commerce…
In the current Republican world, pointing out that a lobbying organization is blatantly ignoring an overwhelming amount of science and promoting thoroughly debunked views by people who aren’t even actual experts in the field they are expounding upon is “smearing and marginalizing”.
a) It’s not a smear. It’s a fact based attack. The White House is now calling “BULLS***!” on groups that simply make s**t up to attack their policies. Good for them.
b) If you make s**t up, you should expect to be marginalized. You are not a serious voice in any debate. You are the boy who cried wolf. The White House has made it clear to these types of groups; don’t expect to be engaged by serious people until you yourself present serious points of view.
I’m glad the White House is calling out the liars. Now, hopefully, real conservative voices can arise and present real conservative arguments, not sound bites and discredited crap (e.g. death panels).
If, however, the White House smears and marginalizes actual conservatives with real arguments and, you know, FACTS, then by all means let us know. I’ll be glad to yell BULLS***! at the White House with you.
26 johnmarzan // Oct 21, 2009 at 10:59 am
[quote]It’s not a smear. It’s a fact based attack…
b) If you make s**t up, you should expect to be marginalized. You are not a serious voice in any debate. You are the boy who cried wolf….
I’m glad the White House is calling out the liars.[/quote]
foxnews lied about van jones, acorn, the NEA scandal, and anita dunn’s mao comments? that’s the reason why they’re really upset at fox right? they got hurt by all these scandals.
27 sinz54 // Oct 21, 2009 at 12:30 pm
lfc:
Ahmedinijad has denied that the Holocaust ever took place. How come Obama isn’t working just as hard to marginalize him?
It seems that Obama is working hard to marginalize his domestic critics (who are still U.S. citizens with the right to free expression), while he goes out of his way to engage Putin and Iran. An open hand to Iran, a clenched fist to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Unbelievable. And pathetic.
To me, those priorities are inverted. Iran needs to be marginalized a whole lot more than the U.S. Chamber of Commerce does.
They are also inconsistent with Obama’s promise during the campaign to be willing to listen to domestic criticism and multiple points of view.
28 Arch // Oct 21, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Fox doesn’t have a nuclear program.
Yet.
29 LFC // Oct 21, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Ahmedinijad has denied that the Holocaust ever took place. How come Obama isn’t working just as hard to marginalize him?
One is the president of Iran, the other a PR outlet. If you can’t tell the difference, maybe you should just stick to talking points. As to public statements by Obama about Ahmadinejad , how about this one:
“I found many of the statements … appalling and objectionable,” Obama told reporters.
He could easily say the very same thing about Fox News.
30 ottovbvs // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:02 pm
ireign // Oct 21, 2009 at 2:21 pm
“Along the same lines — Obama is willing to talk with Castro, Ahmedinijad, and Kim Jong-Il but evidently finds it hard to have a conversation with Fox News??? This is “change we believe in!” Nice to see that this President is a “uniter.”
…….More bumper stickers from ireign……is this actually your job in the Republican noise machine?
ireign // Oct 21, 2009 at 10:27 am
“……And from a guy that has about 200 x more savvy than you do.”
“Good one, ottoBS. 200 x more savvy? Why not make 400? Or about 500?”
………..I was giving you the benefit of the doubt
31 ottovbvs // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm
…….As David points out and some of the more intelligent and realistic commentators here (see below) endorse, it’s all actually a very neat piece of gamesmanship by the Obama political team……note they’ve been very careful to avoid getting into this until the perception of Republican nuttiness is firmly imprinted on the national frontal lobes……as moderate points out all they have to do now is say
“There they go again.”……and a vision of men in white coats hustling away Limbaugh and Beck floats into the national consciousness.
moderate // Oct 20, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Frum’s conclusion that what is good for Fox is bad for the Republican party defies logic. It’s a tv channel. Fox’s ratings doesn’t hurt the GOP.
On the contrary, his conclusion is quite logical.
1) Fox News is strongly associated with the Republican Party; right or wrong, this is the public perception.
2) Fox News cares more about their ratings than the fortunes of the Republican Party.
3) “Bad” behavior (sensationalism, screaming, attacks) is good for ratings, and therefore is good for Fox.
4) Fox’s “bad” behavior reflects poorly on the Republican Party.
Frum has made this argument many times before.
32 sinz54 // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:20 pm
lfc:
I can tell the difference:
Obama is afraid of Iran and what it might do.
He’s not afraid of Fox News.
Fox News is easy for him to bully.
Iran isn’t.
33 sinz54 // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 pm
ottovbs:
When he was campaigning in 2008,
Obama promised to “change the tone in Washington.”
Whatever happened to that?
Tens of millions of Americans voted for Obama because they were sick of the rabid partisanship, and Obama acted like someone who would be beyond that and try to bring us together.
Evidently, Obama lied through his teeth. He’s a rabid partisan doing everything he can to stick it to his domestic political opponents, while his rabid supporters are gleeful and high-fiving one another.
I figured as much. On the left-wing blogs like HuffPo, all the lefties were saying to each other “Obama has to sound conciliatory to get elected–but just wait till after he’s inaugurated!”
So much for “changing the tone in Washington.”
All lies.
And you’re a willing part of it.
You better hope you guys never lose an election again.
Payback’s a bitch.
34 ottovbvs // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:55 pm
sinz54 // Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 pm
ottovbs:
“When he was campaigning in 2008,
Obama promised to “change the tone in Washington.”
………Sinz……there have been a host of polls on this and by large margins Obama is perceived to have made an effort to reach out to the Republicans while they are perceived as being obstructionist and nutty most of the time……..add in the fact that on a personal level he’s very well liked rather as Reagan was by many democrats…….in other words the Republicans are the perceived bad guys in this…….why else do you think they are donw at 20% id?……..Obama is Mr Nice Guy…..the Republicans (Limbaugh, Beck, Bachmann, Steele, Palin, Gingrich et al) are the nuts…..one day you may get it!
35 ottovbvs // Oct 21, 2009 at 6:12 pm
ireign // Oct 21, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“LFC, I think you should ask your community college for your tuition back since you obviously didn’t learn anything”
……..Obama’s outflanking you again……..you obviously haven’t yet learned to recognize it…..so the process will continue……how unfortunate
36 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 21, 2009 at 8:22 pm
A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.
I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.
37 johnmarzan // Oct 21, 2009 at 11:43 pm
the fox all star panel talks about obama’s war against insurance companies, foxnews and the US chamber of commerce… aka the enemies of the state.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568923,00.html
38 balconesfault // Oct 22, 2009 at 11:49 am
Along the same lines — Obama is willing to talk with Castro, Ahmedinijad, and Kim Jong-Il but evidently finds it hard to have a conversation with Fox News???
When you find us the interview that Bush conducted with the NY Times between 2000 and 2009, we can consider this a serious criticism.
And yet – the NY Times was one of the papers that most publicized the fraudulent Whitewater claims … can you point out the investigation into a sitting Republican President that Fox has ever pushed?
39 balconesfault // Oct 22, 2009 at 11:50 am
Sinz: Obama promised to “change the tone in Washington.”
It is hard to change the tone of a discussion when all your opponent wants to do is to scream back at you.
Eventually, one’s patience wanes. Worse yet, people start labeling you as ineffectual and wimpy for taking the abuse without fighting back, and even your supporters start to soften on their support.
40 balconesfault // Oct 22, 2009 at 11:54 am
the fox all star panel talks about obama’s war against insurance companies
Ahh – the war against insurance companies.
And now the Democrats are threatening big insurance with the prospect of removing their Anti-Trust exemption.
I look forward to the Republicans being the party of wanting big insurance continuing to have their Anti-Trust exemption over the next 4-6 years, as insurance premiums increase by 50% and more and more companies start dropping employee insurance benefits as being too expensive to maintain.
Barroom brawling works until you run into an opponent who knows what they’re doing, and isn’t afraid of you. Increasingly it looks like Obama is that opponent, and Republicans aren’t figuring out that brawling won’t cut it anymore.
41 sinz54 // Oct 25, 2009 at 6:52 pm
balconesfault:
The President of the United States works for the American people.
We have the right to scream at him.
He does not have the right to scream at us.
Because he works for us.
You can be chewed out by your boss.
But if you start chewing out your boss,
expect to be fired.
42 sinz54 // Oct 25, 2009 at 6:55 pm
conservative-intellectual:
Considering global warming a myth is the “very basis of conservatism”???
When did politicizing climatology become part of conservatism?
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