RSS Feed MenuAbe Greenwald suggests at the Commentary blog that President Obama deliberately exploited the birth certificate pseudo-controversy.
Greenwald suggests that the president cunningly baited a trap with the conscious intent of portraying his opponents as racist lunatics.
Greenwald may very well be correct about this. Question: Faced with such a devilish ploy, how might Republicans and conservatives have avoided being victimized? Here’s a thought. What about: not walk into it?
Instead, with rare exceptions, leading Republicans from the Speaker of the House downward played games with the birther issue. Maybe they played those games unhappily, but they played the games even so. That was a choice, not a compulsion. And some Republicans – Sarah Palin inevitably, but others too – did much more than play games. That was a choice too.
What else could Republicans have done? They might have answered as Bill Clinton answered when confronted by 9/11 conspiracy theorist hecklers. He heard them out. He recapitulated the facts. He restated the truth. And he told people who continued to defy reality that they “looked like idiots.” He added for good measure: “We heard from you. You go away.”
Watch the clip, then tell me: Who’s the Republican who talked that plainly to the birthers?
medinnus // Apr 28, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Its quite simple.
The GOP base has a 45% Birther preference.
There is a GOP primary coming up (say, in 2012, or back in 2010).
Politician #1 – Affirms that Obama needs to provide the Long Form
Politician #2 – Denies that Obama needs to provide the Long Form.
Politician #1 supports the belief of 45% of the base who will vote in the primary
Politician #2 is, in essence, telling those same people they’re wrong.
All things being equal, politician #1 will win the primary.
The same thing happened in 2008 – and back through history – as regards race. It doesn’t matter why those 45% who Believe hold their views – they aren’t going to vote for someone who tells them they’re wrong when they can vote for someone who confirms their opinion.
Call it cowardice, call it whatever you want – but it would also be political suicide to turn off your base when the GOP is so primary-challenge happy.
Hunter01 // Apr 28, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Time to face facts. Ours is the party of bigots, and we are lead by a gang of mincing cowards. Birtherism is just the most recent knee-capping in a long and undistinguished history of ugly schemes. No high ground for us — not now, not ever. But the good news is … we don’t care. Yes, the Democrats will remember that we tried to de-legitimize a sitting president (as will the rest of the world), but the “Independent” voters won’t remember. And that is all that matters. Think Iago.
Nanotek // Apr 28, 2011 at 5:53 pm
“Think Iago.”
Hunter01 … that the GOP is as sinister, conniving and double-dealing as Iago of Othello?
Hunter01 // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:00 pm
More evil than Iago and more successful. Othello will fall.
Nanotek // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:08 pm
“We are more evil that Iago and, appropriately, more successful. Othello”
I’ve never met an evil Republican but you may be right … but that prediction seems akin to vaticinium ex eventu
LFC // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:17 pm
“SO many errors?” As many as the spelling and grammatical errors as you have in your posts?
Yeah I know I’m late to the party, but this idiot makes Palin, Bachmann, and Taitz look like Rhodes Scholars! I think she’s a perfect fit for a “reality” show.
Xclamation // Apr 28, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Deep South Populist at 10:26 am
[blockquoteq]I was speaking to nationally prominent Republicans who turn up often in the national as opposed to regional and local news. This would include people like Romney, Huckabee, McConnell, Boehner, Ryan, Cantor, Rove and others, you know the people who actually wield power and RUN the GOP at a national level as opposed to just running their mouths… Birtherism had and continues to have support at the grassroots level of the GOP. In this sense, Birtherism a mainstream view within the GOP rank and file. I don’t dispute that. But support for Birtherism in the rank and file is a separate matter from support for it among the leadership.[/blockquote] Deep South Populist at 11:28 am
Deep South Populist at 10:49 am
[blockquote]There are:
- 242 Republican House members
- 47 Republican Senators
- 29 Republican governors
Please remind me — how many people in this group ever said Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii?[/blockquote] Deep South Populist at 1:42 pm.
It might be easier for us to convince you that birtherism is a mainstream Republican position if you would settle on a definition. First you insist that there was no birther movement within the mainstream GOP. Then you change things up and say, ‘well, okay there is. But I meant the other mainstream GOP’. Which apparently is made up entirely of federal legislators. But then you yank the rug out from under us again and include state governors after first denying that they matter.
Also, here’s a thought. Earlier your wrote, “Not condemning something does not constitute support for it.”. Fair enough. That being said, it does suggest that a number of mainstream, (however we’re defining it at this moment) republican politicians were more than happy to sit back and let the hoi polloi spread lies about the president. Which means they themselves bore false witness against Obama. Which doesn’t speak well to their character.
I guess it’s possible that the politicians were to dumb to fact check something so ridiculous (or at least never bothered to have an intern check out snopes.com. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp)
Juggernauzt // Apr 28, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Because the GOP didn’t have too you dipstick. Seriously did Dems ever take on the HillaryGate conspirators or the ones who said Al Gore stole $14 billion from IMF funds that went to Russia. Its better to ignore dumb issues. Frum would know this if he weren’t such a dumb tool of liberals. Frum is nothing but a one trick pony ranting much like Rush Limbaugh……….Frum seldom makes intelligent points he’s a pundit out to hurt the republican party while posing as one of them. Frum is a fraud and he’s a race baiter.
Hunter01 // Apr 28, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Juggernauzt, I admire the way you craft your arguments. Eloquent in a charmless sort of way.
Primrose // Apr 28, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Carney, saying Bush lied to us is not the same as saying Bush is not a citizen. And attention to the facts here, they did lie or misrepresent because they said there was irrefutable evidence (that they could not show us) for WMD’s. That was not true. There were suggestions. They might have decided to do the same thing but they wouldn’t have gotten the same approval.
And DSP, Huckabee claims explicitly that Obama was raised in Kenya (not true) so he is close enough.
nuser // Apr 28, 2011 at 10:03 pm
“Greenwald may very well be correct about this.” Is that you speaking David Frum? I have yet to receive an answer from anyone explaining what happened between yesterday’s column and today’s.
You are now saying it was a cunning move on President Obama’s part and the Republican was baited.
So in other words President Obama dangled a piece of racist hate and they swallowed it?You don’t
like him either do you? Did you not state President Obama , was to be judged by performance not
by the colour of his skin? The irrationality and manipulation here is an outrage. I protest!
indy // Apr 28, 2011 at 10:09 pm
DSP–
First you said:
The Birther movement never had traction within the GOP mainstream.
When people called you out on that you split the hair:
I was speaking to nationally prominent Republicans who turn up often in the national as opposed to regional and local news.
When people called you out on THAT, you now split the hair again:
There are:
- 242 Republican House members
- 47 Republican Senators
- 29 Republican governors
How many of these people claim Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii?
Even though the first time you split the hair, you specifically mentioned people like Romney and Huckabee, you now exclude them.
When you keep making finer and finer distinctions in order to escape criticism, it is referred to as hairsplitting. If you don’t like people calling it that, stop doing it.
Deep South Populist // Apr 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm
CentristNYer // Apr 29, 2011 at 8:22 am
Your point is a good one, David. The Republican leadership has no one to blame but themselves for the embarrassment that the birthers have brought on the party. The fact that very few (if any) leaders dared to issue a full-throated denunciation for more than two years is simply inexcusable. But I also agree with you that Obama certainly used the whole nontroversy very effectively. Party leaders were finally waking up to the fact it would be an albatross in 2012 and were quickly moving to bury it. (See Karl Rove’s recent FoxNews appearances on the subject.) The timing of Obama’s announcement was quite masterful, as it killed the issue very dramatically and on his terms, rather than letting the GOP strangle it quietly in its crib.
JamesD // Apr 29, 2011 at 9:23 am
The folks on the left are the true racists and it is dishonest to make the false claim that if one questions Obama’s birth certificate they must be a racist.
Were the folks and media that relentlessly went after GWB about his National Guard service racist in nature?
Were the folks and media that went after Kerry about his “SwiftBoat” service racists?
Nah.
Same thing here. You have a president whose father was not a US citizen, a grandmother that said he was born in Kenya and the intentional non disclosure of many aspects of his past history which leads people to ask questions.
I do 100% agree that it’s the folks on the right that do not like Obama’s policies that do the most questioning about the place of birth for Obama – just like it was the folks on the left (Dan Rather) that relentlessly went after GWB regarding his service records.
Quit shouting racism when it is not really there.
medinnus // Apr 29, 2011 at 10:11 am
What do you expect explicit and closet bigots to do, admit it?
Deny deny deny.
There sure as hell are racist bigots on the Left, starting with the Al Sharpton crew and his ilk, and proceeding all the way over to the latino population in the American Southwest (The “La Raza” and the “Reconquista” movements). They are overtly racist and their supporters are dedicated to “reclaiming” the region that they claim was un-rightfully taken from Mexico; they are preaching sedition (as I understand the term – not a lawyer, just an ordained ex-LEO turned tech geek).
All of that is not to the point, and a distraction. Its a “kindergarten” argument – they hit other people, so why shouldn’t I hit them.
It does not matter if there are non-GOP racists in the world; trust me, there are (the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese are among the most racist people in the world).
What matters is that in the United States, racism and bigotry is unacceptable. Promoting it for political ends is reprehensible. Turning a blind eye to it for political advantage is cowardly and contrary to everything Americans stand for, and for which they have fought and died. Bigots don’t need to be stoned, but they need to be silenced – loudly, and unequivocably – by their peers.
The GOP leadership has failed in this, and in their duty as good Americans. The GOP rank and file who are not bigots themselves have failed in this.
Bigots need to made aware that bigotry is unacceptable. They do not need to be excused, coddled, or winked at. Anything less – by anyone who really believes in the American principles of democracy, justice, and freedom – is a travesty.
CentristNYer // Apr 29, 2011 at 10:24 am
JamesD // Apr 29, 2011 at 9:23 am
“… it is dishonest to make the false claim that if one questions Obama’s birth certificate they must be a racist.”
No one would reasonably suggest that everyone who raised this issue is racist. But I think it’s entirely reasonable to scrutinize the motivations of those who’ve been most vocal about it. Back in 2008 there were also questions about McCain’s birth — he was born in Panama — and yet virtually none of the a–holes who beat the birther drum about Obama’s legitimacy said a peep about McCain’s. It was a complete non-event. You don’t have to be a genius to understand why they gave him a pass: it’s a lot easier to believe the worst of a guy who doesn’t look like you and has a foreign-sounding name.
Primrose // Apr 29, 2011 at 9:44 am
Because you just know the Democrats are going to holler “racists!!!” at anything they disagree with, and what, we are supposed to just bend over and let them whack away with the Riding Crop of Racism??? In fact, beg for it and wallow around in humiliation for some extra fun???
First of all, Obama did not steal the election from Mrs. Clinton, he won it. (And I say that as a Hillary supporter). Though there were certainly calls from leaders for her to quit, she didn’t so we know without a shadow of a doubt that she lost.
As for this continued claim that Democrats holler racism at anything they disagree with, Republicans say this every time their racism is held accountable. Even the with the Dr. Laura incident, when she repeatedly said the word nigger to an identified African-American caller who indicated she found it offensive, we were told it is not racism.
Yes, there are people who are quick to take offense but white men (and women) are just as equally represented in this matter.
And frankly, I think it is a kind of racism for whites to expect African-Americans to always take a charitable interpretation of the facts. I don’t think we’ve earned that yet. Racism
isn’t even dead, past its prime perhaps, but still hearty enough, but African-Americans should risk their own welfare and assume we really mean well? Never mind that the ability to correctly judge the level of racial hostility was key to individual’s survival. They are supposed to throw all that aside and trust we mean well unless a cross is brought to their lawn?
You are not treating African-Americans and their needs as equals if you expect them to do that.
Some of the more heinous crimes of a racist society still have living victims, or when those victims are dead, their children. Listen to the story core project, and how many African-Americans recite crimes which send shivers down a decent persons’ back. Six year olds being charged with rape for kissing a white child. Fingernails torn out because nail polish was put on, stones thrown at children during integration. Or start asking about the stories in your neighborhood from African-Americans. In my former town, the African-American help at the local hotel having to be evacuated in secret because the lynch mob, which burned down a courthouse to try to lynch one man, wanted blood and was going to punish somebody, anybody.
These type of things happened to people who are still living. Do you expect this distrust to just evaporate because you find it uncomfortable to think about?
My step-grandmother had to flee the Nazis, first in Germany where she was a student and then Czechoslovakia which was her home. Her mother, who trusted that the German commandant she’d known since he was a child, and had taken over their home, did not flee. Do I really need to add the sentence that she died in Aushwitz two weeks before the end of the war?
My grandmother never bought a German car, and few German products from then to the end of her long life. She once objected to Dr. Ruth because “ people don’t like what she says, and so people won’t like the Jews.”
These trauma’s don’t go away so long as people live—nor so long as the family stories live. I still carry her stories within me. I do so though she rarely told me any directly (and none about her escape). I got them through my parents and cousins, though I was in my late twenties when she died. I carry them with me even though her family is not my family (She was my grandfather’s second wife, married when my mother was an adult).
Do you think this isn’t true for African-Americans, particularly when there is just so much painful family history? Particularly when their descendents are still subject to racism? African-American’s under 50 may not have felt Jim Crow, but they certainly felt racism.
Let’s take this small example. An African-American friend of mine in college walked into the woman’s room of her dorm, and a fellow student, a white woman screamed in utter fear. Maybe, you’d say my friend should just shake this off, but if she knew people who’d been killed or beaten for inducing “fear” in whites, would that be so easy to do? Of course not, you’d be afraid. You might play it cool, but you’d be afraid.
Trust can not come if you are afraid all the time. While it appears from my experience, that Whites can earn African-Americans trust, it is not instant and it is always individual by individual. And that’s the way it is going to be for a long time, because that’s how people work. Also, on consideration, as the experience of my grandmother’s mother shows, too much trust is very dangerous. So I think African-American’s are right to stay wary. We (Whites) should stop taking it so personally; stop being so quick to be offended.
A Round Twoit // Apr 29, 2011 at 10:37 am
I’ve been reading here for about a year and your post, Primrose, is the first one, among many stellar posts, that has moved me enough to want to respond. Bravo and bravo again for your insight as to why non-whites may still feel victimized and are slow to trust whites and your empathy for that feeling ……. I hold the same views (full disclosure, I’m white). Thank you very much!
rbottoms // Apr 29, 2011 at 11:59 am
These people are playing with fire.
You break that unspoken agreement that Dr. King forged, which is our forgiveness, and all hell will break loose.
Cindyflo // Apr 29, 2011 at 3:54 pm
I agree with a round twoit – incredible post, Primrose. I’m going to print it out and share it with my husband and a few other friends. You are so much more eloquent than I can ever hope to be – this topic usually reduces me to enraged sputters, but you had the perfect words. Excellent.
SqueekyFromm // Apr 29, 2011 at 5:55 pm
I will not tease you for being warm and fuzzy. That is probably the best way for a person to be. Honestly.
But, it’s just not my way. Sooo, IMHO (which means In My Humble Opinion) Obama and his supporters need to quit sulking and pouting and get their sorry, lazy a$$e$ to work. Even the people who voted for the Idiot, probably wanted something more than sitting around singing Kumbaya. But, for those who didn’t:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpdOiq-2DFU
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Primrose // Apr 29, 2011 at 12:44 pm
I am completely at a loss JamesD how you can equate questioning a man’s actions (Bush’s National Guard Service) and questioning if someone is a citizen long after he’s provided the information, often creating lies to keep this alive. (His grandmother did not say she was at his birth, and when there was confusion, made it clear she wasn’t.)
Nor can you claim that someone who wrote an autobiography before he ran for anything, is somehow secretive. We all knew the trajectory ofHis life before he ran for office. Mr. Obama was reasonably open about his life, and gave enough detail for any private investigator to follow. (Explaining your life from your point of view doesn’t make you secretive)
This bit about “nobody knowing him” is ridiculous. I went to a much smaller school than Columbia and am continually wondering when reading Alumni notes whose that? Of the people whose faces I remember, very few do I remember their name, even of people I interacted with day to day.
So all this is stuff and nonsense. That mean things have been said about other people doesn’t have much to do with the motivation of the people saying mean things here. All it means is that while racism is a form of cruelty not all cruelty is racist. Fine. But the motivation here is clear, and follows a pattern.
Deep South Populist // Apr 29, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@ Indy/Xclamation
Let me be as clear and direct as I can be.
Frum framed the issue for this article as follows: “leading Republicans from the Speaker of the House downward played games with the birther issue.”
So this debate is about “leading Republicans,” not the GOP rank and file.
That said, even though the rank and file is not the topic here, I agree you both 100% that Birtherism has significant support within this segment of the GOP. No argument there.
Birtherism does NOT, however, have support among “leading Republicans,” which I define as the major presidential candidates, the US Senators, the US Representatives, the governors, the RNC, and the professional advisers and strategists like Karl Rove.
People can point to exceptions like Donald Trump, Nathan Deal, and maybe David Vitter, but they are exceptions. Claiming that leading Republicans in general “played games” with the Birther issue is a backhanded way of saying they supported it indirectly. This is simply not true. Using the definition I gave above, the vast majority of leading Republicans have never offered any form of support for Birtherism.
nhthinker // Apr 29, 2011 at 2:22 pm
“@ Indy/Xclamation
Let me be as clear and direct as I can be.”
Well reasoned. But don’t expect any deference from Mr. T.R. Sucks: your logic is getting in the way of his trying to reprimand you. He’s assigned himself that role and does not like any rational reasoning getting in the way of his meting it out. He may even turn to ad hominem attacks… Ooh, wait a minute…Too late.
Xclamation // Apr 29, 2011 at 3:11 pm
DSP,
I agree with with about 95% of what you’ve written in this post. Especially this paragraph, “Birtherism does NOT, however, have support among “leading Republicans,” which I define as the major presidential candidates, the US Senators, the US Representatives, the governors, the RNC, and the professional advisers and strategists like Karl Rove.”
I would be amazed if more than about 5% of “leading Republicans” actually fell for the birther nonsense or would be sad to see it go away.
However, I think you’re wrong to define game playing as “a backhanded way of saying they supported it…”.
A frighteningly large number of important republicans were more than willing to play games with the issue. Some like Newt Gingrich (who wants to be a leading republican again) andRush Limbaugh (who thinks he is) played with birther language to stoke their constituents. Meanwhile, actual leading republicans like Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor and John Boehner refused to acknowledge that the controversy was built on lies because doing so would have hurt their appeal among the GOP base (http://www.slate.com/id/2285017/). It doesn’t take a lot of digging around to find instances where rather than do the right thing and call a lie a lie, prominent republicans mealy-mouthed their way around the issue. Instead of standing up for the truth they did what was politically expedient. And I’m afraid that kind of thing qualifies as game playing.
oconman // Apr 29, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Now it seems conservatives are making the claim that it was President Obama who laid the trap of the birther issue. So much for the party of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility.
I can answer the question that poses as the title of the article above. Because they are cowards. Either too cowardly to explicitly stand up for their bigoted convictions; or too cowardly to stand up to the falsehoods that many bigoted republicans cling to. Either way they are cowards.
talkradiosucks.com // Apr 29, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Deep South Populist –
Until now, I’ve considered you one of the few reasonably-minded conservatives on this board. I didn’t always agree with you, but I respected that you were willing to consider and discuss an issue fairly.
You’re ruining that reputation with your stonewalling in this thread. You keep repeating the same points over and over again while not responding to Frum’s main argument at all.
His point is not that there was widespread support among GOP leaders for birtherism, but rather that it spread due to the lack of widespread CONDEMNATION among GOP leaders for birtherism.
The title of the thread is not “Why Did the GOP Support Birthers?”, but “Why Didn’t GOP Stand Up to Birthers?”
You said: “Claiming that leading Republicans in general “played games” with the Birther issue is a backhanded way of saying they supported it indirectly. This is simply not true.”
No, again, it’s a way of saying that they did not clearly and unequivocally disavow it and discourage it from being an issue. They played games by either pretending it wasn’t going on, or refusing to support but also refusing to condemn.
You are arguing against a strawman. And the more you do it, the more you put yourself into the same category as the WillyP, Smargalicious and nh”thinker” crowd on FF.
indy // Apr 29, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Claiming that leading Republicans in general “played games” with the Birther issue is a backhanded way of saying they supported it indirectly.
Also to be clear, I don’t think they (or even Trump) believed it. But yes, they supported the craziness indirectly. I know this because I know what Republican leaders who DON’T support the nut jobs indirectly look like. And they look just like John McCain, who in front of the entire nation directly and clearly contradicted the old lady who was claiming that Obama was a Muslim. For a brief moment, I saw the party I use to like, and often vote for.
Before he became a bitter old man, he was a fairly reasonable person and a decent old school Republican.
If you take the approach that anybody who doesn’t speak up in the face of obvious lies is not tacitly supporting them, there is little that will dissuade you I imagine. But, as they say, I wasn’t raised that way. Neither, apparently, were John McCain or David Frum. Perhaps it is a cultural difference of some sort.
nhthinker // Apr 29, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Trump believed Obama was hiding the long form for a reason. He said he expected it contained some information that Obama didn’t want to get out. Seemingly, he was wrong and Obama just didn’t want to voluntarily jump through a hoop he did not think he should have to and wanted to make a point about it.
Compare what Trump said to that of Pete Stark talking about George Bush from the House Floor…
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/150621/starkly-outrageous/kathryn-jean-lopez
“You don’t have money to fund the war or children. But you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement,” Stark said.
“President Bush’s statements about children’s health shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than his lies about the war in Iraq. The truth is that Bush just likes to blow things up in Iraq, in the United States, and in Congress. I urge my colleagues to vote to override his veto,” he continued.
With demands from House Republicans to apologize, Stark then said he neither respects “the commander-in-chief who keeps (the troops) in harm’s way nor the chicken hawks in Congress.”
Democrats are always respectful to the President. Yeah, right.
talkradiosucks.com // Apr 29, 2011 at 3:50 pm
How many of the right-wing people who think it was just fine for the GOP not to explicitly and vocally condemn the “birthers”, simulatneously feel that Muslim leaders should explicitly and vocally condemn *their* extreme elements?
“And they look just like John McCain, who in front of the entire nation directly and clearly contradicted the old lady who was claiming that Obama was a Muslim. For a brief moment, I saw the party I use to like, and often vote for.”
Exactly. That is the entire point, and it remains the point no matter how much of a song-and-dance routine anyone wants to perform to try to avoid it. Most of the GOP leadership didn’t support this complete idiocy, but neither did they do much to stop it.
Same goes for the big talk radio hosts. I heard for myself many times Sean Hannity’s very tepid “non-condemning non-endorsement” of the birther movement.
nhthinker // Apr 29, 2011 at 8:11 pm
OMG
Comparing “extremists” that ask “where is the birth certificate?” to people that kill and behead people because someone else burns a book or stone women to death for having been raped.
Yeah, that’s a fair comparison… “Extremists” are extremists right?
Asking for a birth certificate and beheading an innocent are similar transgressions to Obamaniacs.
We should demand a similar level of outrage!
Mr. Sucks, you are a fool.
Blue Grit // Apr 29, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Why didn’t Communist Party stand up to Stalin?
Lonewolf // Apr 29, 2011 at 5:46 pm
The GOP bus drivers can’t kick the people wearing tinfoil hats off, because it’s a public bus and they’ve already paid their fare.
But it is clear the people paid to drive have effectively surrendered the wheel to the foil hat folks and are nowquietly sitting in the back, hoping not to be noticed. Already the bus is is going around corners on two wheels; the disaster to come will be spectacular, and Republicans will spend the next 20 years trying to patch up the bus and get it rolling again.
“First they came for the socialists, and I said nothing because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the liberals, and I said nothing because I was not a liberal.
Then they came for the moderates, and I said nothing because I was not a moderate.
Then they came for the small-c conservatives, and I said nothing because I was not a small-c conservative.
Then they came for me, and nobody else said anything because they were all busy watching Trump gibber and spit.”
talkradiosucks.com // Apr 29, 2011 at 8:55 pm
“Comparing “extremists” that ask “where is the birth certificate?” to people that kill and behead people…”
I didn’t make that comparison.
Obviously Muslim terrorists are far worse, but that’s not the point, which is that merely “not supporting” something is not the same as vocally opposing it. That applies whether the extremists in a group are commiting crimes, or merely being a bunch of idiots.
And by the way, conservatives apply this same standard to more than just Muslim extremists. For example, how many times in 2008 did we hear talk radio hosts call on Obama to denounce Jeremiah Wright? Same exact thing.
nhthinker // Apr 29, 2011 at 10:21 pm
““Comparing “extremists” that ask “where is the birth certificate?” to people that kill and behead people…”
I didn’t make that comparison. ”
Way to try to weasel out of it…
You compared the importance of condemning “extremists” that ask “where is the birth certificate?” with the importance of condemning people that kill and behead people…”
You also compared my contributions here to the work of Goebbels.
(you really should be ashamed of yourself and commence self-flagellation immediately).
You are still a fool that makes laughable hyperbolic comments that are beyond the pale.
As to Rev Wright, how many mainstream elected Democrats openly condemned Wright for saying those things or called upon Obama to condemn them?
You have serious problems understanding balanced analogies.
anniemargret // Apr 29, 2011 at 9:45 pm
I confess that I didn’t read through all the comments here….so if someone else has said this already, I apologize.
There is only obvious answer to David Frum’s question. And that is that the GOP is almost wholly co-opted by the bigots and hate-mongerers. Who is the GOP leader? Quick….is it Boehner? Nope. Any other Republican politician now serving in Congress? Nope. Their ipso facto leaders are Limbaugh, Palin, Gingrich, Huckabee, Bachmann, and Trump; aided and abetted by the legion of hate and fear-mongerers on Fox News.
No one is surprised. They opened the Pandora’s box and it won’t be closed again. There is not a single solitary person within the GOP today that has the moral guts to stop the insanity. This is how they want to win. Not with big ideas, productive ideas, helpful ideas.
But by trying to trash and burn the sitting President of the U.S! The party of Lincoln? Hell, no.
And that’s the answer.
Traveler // Apr 30, 2011 at 10:11 am
Great series of threads and new trolls to ignore. Great pics TRS, and +2 to Primrose. Sad to see DSP fall over the cliff. He is hanging on by the fingernails. But he knows he’s boxed himself into the corner, and will emerge duly chastened. I appreciate his posts, even though I often disagree.
Annie:
Add Norquist. His “theories” are the most evil of all. But again, its the fact that the refuglicans buy his crap that is really evil. Frightening. Birtherism is just racism, and has little effect upon what people have really felt all along anyway. Its just out in the open now.
However, the “Starve the Beast” has now become a pillar of refuglicans, even to the point of calling the elimination of arcane and market distorting deductions “raising taxes”. If that sort of stuff ever takes over, we are really in Orwellian hell.