Why Amnesty is Worse With Obamacare

March 25th, 2010 at 12:10 am David Frum | 40 Comments |

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My latest column for The Week argues that the Administration will only exacerbate the problems in Obamacare if it makes immigration reform–specifically amnesty–its next cause:

As is, the foreign-born will absorb a disproportionate share of the subsidies extended by the newly-enacted health plan. If we proceed with an immigration reform that legalizes the 10-12 million illegal workers currently in the country, the number of recipients of health-care subsidies will soar, adding hugely to health reform’s future costs. Subsidies will be concentrated among the poorest – and immigrants are 50 percent more likely to be poor than natives.

Donald Rumsfeld used to joke: “If you don’t know how to solve a problem, make it bigger.” This is what the U.S. has been doing with its poverty problem since 1970, and it has not proved to be very good advice.

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40 Comments so far ↓

  • SFTor1

    I listened to an NPR program on illegal immigrants and health.

    Turns out they arrive healthy and leave sick, at least according to that show.

  • mlindroo

    It’s hard to say what kind of immigration reform is required since both political parties have deep internal disagreements. On the other hand, from a political-tactical point of view, discussing immigration before the elections might have some benefits. I saw a note on one of the conservative blogs that the GOP once again is trying to reach out to the rapidly growing Hispanic minority. Hispanics overwhelmingly favored Obama two years ago, and the Tea Partyrs (“Real American Patriots” as they are) are strongly nativist…

    Of course, the interesting question is whether the Dems will lose more seats in November than they otherwise would, if they stroke the erogenous zones of JD Hayworth, Rush Limbaugh and Tom Tancredo … or will enraged Hispanics (aside from Cuban Americans) tune out the GOP for good much like they have already done in California?

    MARCU$

  • Jeffry1

    This isn’t about getting foreign born on the healthcare rolls…this is about getting them hooked on an entitlement and then making them legal so they can vote democrat to keep the crack coming. This is Chicago politics gone national. Do you think if the dems thought the illegals if legalized would vote republican that they would push for this?? Of course not.

    This is not your daddy’s hispanic immigrant. The dems see this as yet another step to get more than 50% of the electorate dependent on Big Government thus giving them a permanent majority…at least until the money runs out. A more cynical group has not held power in my lifetime. In 2008 a shallow hack Chicago back room pol with zero accomplishments other than he could read a teleprompter and he had more malanin than his opponent (complete with his corrupt band of machiavellian Daley-esque minions in tow) dressed himself up as a hopey/changey centrist healer rather than the die-hard leftist he is and the fools in this country eager to feel good about themselves through a messiah took the bait. (Many of whom post on this very board in fact).

  • mike farmer

    As long as the immigration problem is dealt with in terms of which party can capture immigrant votes, the problem will not be resolved — it will get worse.

  • Marsh626

    Simply removing incentives for people to immigrate here illegally isn’t enough to solve this problem unfortunately. Millions of poor illegal immigrants infiltrate our country and then have kids as quickly as possible just so they become automatically citizens. That needs to change since the large majroity of these kids are never taught English, are not raised properly (mostly because their parents are the dregs of the country they immigrated from) and thus they overwhelm our essential guaranteed services such as schooling, health care and other various welfare services. They flunk out of school at alarming rates and over 30% of them join violent gangs.

    My friends and family have personal experience with this problem unfortunately. About two years ago one of my best friends was murdered by illegal immigrant gang members simply because he was white and his girlfriend was hispanic. We later found out this nationwide illegal immigrant gang requires members to rape or murder white people in order to get promoted (and they do the same thing against blacks in predominantly black neighborhoods). So for some of us this isn’t merely a debate over health care but whether or not we’re ethnically cleansed from our neighborhoods…

    We should adopt a Japanese-style immigration system. As you suggested they only accept the best and the brightest but they also do extensive criminal background checks on potential immigrants to weed out low lifes. And they have an absoluely zero tolerance policy for illegal immigrants (and their kids). If you’re found to be in Japan illegally they arrest you, detain you briefly and then promptly send you back to your native country. Simple enough. As a result Japan has very few problems with illegal immigrations. And it seems to be working pretty well for them in fact. The Japanese have extremely high standards of living for their citizens like world leading education, health and crime rankings.

    That’s because the Japanese actually care about ensuring the quality of life and livelyhoods of their citizens first and foremost over the quality of life of foreigners unlike our politicians and political pundits. We need to secure our borders, remove all incentives to immigrate here illegally, enact a tamper proof ID card, punish people who employ illegals and step up efforts to locate and deport the ones we find. Anything less is criminal and intolerable to American citizens.

  • ottovbvs

    ……Contrary to Mr Frum’s assertion I don’t think immigration reform is the president’s next priority…..it’s clearly reform of the financial regulatory system and the administration has been much more involved in the writing of the bills in the house (already passed) and the Dodd bill which quietly got voted out of committee and onto the senate floor last Friday……this was inevitable because believe it or not they are immensely more complex than the healthcare reform bill……these are going to occupy a load of parliamentary time over the next 3-4 months and happily for the Democrats it’s probable the Republicans are going give an encore of their NO act but it’s possible the nature of the bills and the events of the past few weeks may make some Republican senators think twice but even with limited cooperation this is going to take time and since this is such a populist issue the Republicans have got to launch big pushbacks ……all that said I’ve long thought Obama might be planning to spring an immigration bill on the country in the run up to the November elections because while it’s got some potential downsides for Democrats it’s a real party splitter for the Republicans because basically the economic/business/ag wing of the party are completely behind this while the nationalist/tea bag/religious crowd are not……then of course it would once again firmly position the Republicans as the anti hispanic party (if you’ve got any doubt read some of the mouth breathing stuff above much of which ignores the roughly 12 million plus illegals in the country already)……this is all speculation of course so we’ll have to see how it plays out……in the meantime the focus will on financial reform not immigration.

  • TerryF98

    Politico.

    “A coffin was placed on a Missouri Democrat’s lawn, another in a string of incidents against lawmakers after their vote Sunday on a health care overhaul.

    This came after Rep. Tom Perriello’s (D-VA) brother’s gas lines were cut, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) received death threats and Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y) received a message saying snipers were being deployed to kill children of those who voted for health care overhaul.

    Several other Democrats have had threats leveled against them, prompting a closed-door briefing of Democratic members by the FBI, Capitol Police and the House Sergeant at Arms.”

    Republicans the party of hate?

  • jabbermule

    Marsh26:

    “We should adopt a Japanese-style immigration system. As you suggested they only accept the best and the brightest but they also do extensive criminal background checks on potential immigrants to weed out low lifes. And they have an absoluely zero tolerance policy for illegal immigrants (and their kids). If you’re found to be in Japan illegally they arrest you, detain you briefly and then promptly send you back to your native country. Simple enough. As a result Japan has very few problems with illegal immigrations. And it seems to be working pretty well for them in fact. The Japanese have extremely high standards of living for their citizens like world leading education, health and crime rankings.”

    Unfortunately, that could never work here…can you imagine the ‘racism’ cries and moans and screams and whines from wingnut types like ottovbvs and teabag who throw out race bomb accusations with practically every breath? In America, screaming ‘racism’ nowadays is akin to screaming ‘witch’ during the Salem Witch Trials in the 17th century, or screaming ‘Communist’ during the McCarthy era…not a shred of evidence is required for the allegation, and the accused is immediately convicted and condemned in the court of public opinion.

    Worse, liberal Democrats use allegations of racism to shame and humiliate any principled opposition to their quest for continued expansion of government power through the enactment of social programs like health care reform.

    “We need to secure our borders, remove all incentives to immigrate here illegally, enact a tamper proof ID card, punish people who employ illegals and step up efforts to locate and deport the ones we find. Anything less is criminal and intolerable to American citizens.”

    Senators Chuck Schumer and Lindsey Graham are actually sponsoring bipartisan legislation that will roughly have the effect of what you are suggesting…check out this recent article in the Washington Post:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031703115.html

  • ottovbvs

    jabbermule // Mar 25, 2010 at 10:00 am

    “Unfortunately, that could never work here…can you imagine the ‘racism’ cries and moans and screams and whines from wingnut types like ottovbvs and teabag ”

    …….you forgot to mention the screams and whines from the US Chamber of Commerce, the small business associations, the state agricultural associations and lobby……..but then you don’t live in the real world but some little bubble of your own invention that ignores reality and forces you to demonize anyone who points out that reality

  • TerryF98

    Unfortunately, that could never work here…can you imagine the ‘socialism’ cries and moans and screams and whines from wingnut types like jabbermule and independent who throw out Mao bombs accusations with practically every breath? In America, screaming ‘socialism’ nowadays is akin to screaming ‘witch’ during the Salem Witch Trials in the 17th century, or screaming ‘Communist’ during the McCarthy era…not a shred of evidence is required for the allegation, and the accused is immediately convicted and condemned in the court of public opinion.”

    Fixed :-)

  • sinz54

    jabbermule: If you’re found to be in Japan illegally they arrest you, detain you briefly and then promptly send you back to your native country. Simple enough.
    It’s a lot simpler for the Japanese who live on a bunch of islands in the Pacific Ocean, than it would be for the U.S. which has a 1,500 mile border consisting of miles and miles of desert and prairie.

  • sinz54

    ottovbs: you forgot to mention the screams and whines from the US Chamber of Commerce, the small business associations, the state agricultural associations and lobby
    That could be ameliorated to some degree.

    In Japan, they’re now automating their farms too. They’ve developed robots that plant rice, for example, eliminating the need for “wetback” farm workers. The longer-range goal is to completely automate farms.

    http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci051014.html

    We could start a similar program here, providing funding from the Federal Government to help agribusiness transition to a robotized industry. That would greatly reduce the need for those “wetback” workers here as well.

    The Dems are always hot to trot about “rebuilding America’s infrastructure.” But FARM infrastructure they’ve neglected till now.

  • ottovbvs

    sinz54 // Mar 25, 2010 at 10:30 am

    “jabbermule:
    If you’re found to be in Japan illegally they arrest you, detain you briefly and then promptly send you back to your native country. Simple enough.”

    …….then there’s the simple problem that larges swathes of the US service and ag industries depend on these folk………but then simple minds find it simple to solve any problem

  • jabbermule

    People, please pay attention — this wasn’t my statement, I was quoting Marsh26:

    “If you’re found to be in Japan illegally they arrest you, detain you briefly and then promptly send you back to your native country. Simple enough. ”

    Whether you agree or disagree with the statement, give credit where it’s due.

  • jabbermule

    ottovbvs // Mar 25, 2010 at 10:07 am

    “…….you forgot to mention the screams and whines from the US Chamber of Commerce, the small business associations, the state agricultural associations and lobby……..but then you don’t live in the real world but some little bubble of your own invention that ignores reality and forces you to demonize anyone who points out that reality”

    You may find this hard to believe, but you won’t get an argument from me on this point…any individual, organization or business that exploits illegal immigrants for cheap labor should be subject to severe fines and/or imprisonment. For every seller (undocumented workers), there has to be a buyer (businesses that hire undocumented workers), and in this case both are complicit in this problem…you can’t have one without the other.

  • jabbermule

    TerryF98:

    “Unfortunately, that could never work here…can you imagine the ‘socialism’ cries and moans and screams and whines from wingnut types like jabbermule and independent who throw out Mao bombs accusations with practically every breath? In America, screaming ‘socialism’ nowadays is akin to screaming ‘witch’ during the Salem Witch Trials in the 17th century, or screaming ‘Communist’ during the McCarthy era…not a shred of evidence is required for the allegation, and the accused is immediately convicted and condemned in the court of public opinion.”

    Terry, do you support Obamacare? I suspect you do, and if so, maybe accusations of ‘socialist’ aren’t so far off the mark. Obama, Pelosi and their supporters have implied routinely that this is just a first step towards a single payer system — sounds pretty socialist to me. C’mon, if you’re really a socialist, then wear it proudly.

  • TerryF98

    Jabber,

    Yes I support the health insurance reform bill.

    I support getting rid of recision,
    I support getting rid of pre existing conditions,
    I support getting rid of dropped insurance just when people need it.
    I support the saving of 43,000 lives a year, nearly half a million lives in the first ten years.
    I support giving subsidies to those who cannot afford healthcare which is a right not a privilege.

    I support a lot in this bill, I also support the public option which is the only vehicle to really reduce costs.

    Is is perfect, to quote the great Orange one. “Hell no” but it’s a start. The status quo is untenable.

    I am a progressive. I like and want progress for this country. I am not a collectivist, a socialist or a communist.

    The bill is a very centrist bill based on many ideas put forward by the Republican party over the years. It is very close to Romney’s Mass healthcare bill. To portray it as a Socialist/Hitler /Mao end of all things American is not reality I am afraid.

  • ottovbvs

    14 jabbermule // Mar 25, 2010 at 10:59 am

    “You may find this hard to believe, but you won’t get an argument from me on this point”

    ……Not really…..as I point out in 6 above (you really should read my stuff, I’m not a complete doofus)…..this is a huge schism in the GOP quite apart from any implications on their losing/gaining hispanic votes…..basically the business/ag wing of the party want this and they are the guys with the money so what do you think is going to happen…..I’m not sure whether Obama is going to make a push on immigration reform before fall because there are some downsides for the Dems (but nowhere near as bad) but I’m sure he’ll be weighing the options and an alliance between him and the business/ag wing of the GOP will be hard to stop

  • ottovbvs

    jabbermule // Mar 25, 2010 at 10:49 am

    …..sorry for the misattribution

  • jabbermule

    TerryF98:

    “I am a progressive. I like and want progress for this country. I am not a collectivist, a socialist or a communist.”

    What are you in favor of ‘progressing’ towards? Most progressives favor policies that are socialist in nature, and, as I mentioned earlier, Obama and his supporters continually state or imply that this is just a first step towards a single payer system, which would be a socialist program.

    “To portray it as a Socialist/Hitler /Mao end of all things American is not reality I am afraid.”

    Ok, stop – when did I ever accuse Obama/Pelosi/Reid etc of being Hitler or Mao? Leave that for the Tea Party signs.

  • Independent

    TeaBagged does another distortion of reality while trying to highjack the thread –evidently rbottoms is busy making “Hang Bush” signs for the next SanFran4All Values Meeting… so TeaBagged is on-tap as the resident bomb-throwing FrumBot.

    TeaBagged #7: “… Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) received death threats…”

    Mr Stupak has been very honest about that, even if TeaBagged and the democrat ditch diggers can’t.

    Mr Stupak said he rec’d so many hatefilled, harassing emails and phone calls at home and the office, he told his wife to disconnect the home phone. The calls were from Democrat party activists angered about the Michigan Congressman’s apparent “grandstanding” in holding up the Obami’s One True Choice on Health Care before we learned he had sold out for a $1m in new airport expansion funds from the FAA –as well as lots of other goodies for the district.

    The angry calls were mostly from Democrat activist/abortion industry protectors, TeaBagged. People just like TeaBagged who wanted Obama sCare to pass –see #16.

    Why would you want to lie and deceive on this site? And why, after slamming Bart Stupak for weeks as “the pawn of Republicans”, the “tool of the Right”, a “pro-Life bozo” you suddenly have interest in embracing him as the new bloody shirt of Democrat progressives?

    Could it be that hyprocrisy is a family value in your home? Yeah, thought so.

  • jabbermule

    ottovbvs:

    “this is a huge schism in the GOP quite apart from any implications on their losing/gaining hispanic votes…..basically the business/ag wing of the party want this and they are the guys with the money so what do you think is going to happen…..I’m not sure whether Obama is going to make a push on immigration reform before fall because there are some downsides for the Dems (but nowhere near as bad)”

    I agree on all points — this is why I fear a push for immigration reform more than health care reform…the battle lines won’t be as clearly drawn on this issue.

  • TerryF98

    “What are you in favor of ‘progressing’ towards? ”

    I am interested in an America that is a more just and equitable society. One that is always pushing ahead rather than standing still.

    Decent healthcare is one of those things. I don’t believe single payer is on the cards, it does not fit the American way of doing things. Nor do I believe Obama is pushing or has pushed for single payer. Perhaps you could provide some links to speeches he has made or OP Ed’s he has written.

    Do some on the left want single payer, yes they do. And it is their right to believe and push for that, just as it is your right to oppose it.

    I did not accuse you of shouting Socialist/Hitler/Mao. However it seems it’s the way the far right approaches everything left of G Khan.

  • TerryF98

    Independent.

    I don’t usually respond to your nonsense as I feel I am talking to a small angry child. However I will make an exception.

    Firstly I was posting a snippet from Politico. They are not my words just for information. If you actually read the thing you would see the word Politico at the top and the quote marks.

    As for your observation below. Can you please provide the thread titles and post numbers or preferably just paste my words here for all to see. If you cant do that then just go away with your dumb accusations. Post the evidence of where I have lied and deceived regarding Mr Stupak

    I will be waiting.

    “Why would you want to lie and deceive on this site? And why, after slamming Bart Stupak for weeks as “the pawn of Republicans”, the “tool of the Right”, a “pro-Life bozo” you suddenly have interest in embracing him as the new bloody shirt of Democrat progressives?”

  • TerryF98

    “Why would you want to lie and deceive on this site? And why, after slamming Bart Stupak for weeks as “the pawn of Republicans”, the “tool of the Right”, a “pro-Life bozo” you suddenly have interest in embracing him as the new bloody shirt of Democrat progressives?

    Again where have I posted the quoted words “the pawn of Republicans”, the “tool of the Right”, a “pro-Life bozo” I want the thread titles and post numbers please. You obviously know them off by heart because you have them right by your side. Post them or admit you are full of it.

  • opsimath44

    David, you are a very smart man, and I look to your column for insights into the actual effects of policy, as opposed to the typical ideological boogie man stories that make up most of the blogosphere and MSM. But here, you are talking about a very big if, aren’t you?

    If the Obama Administration does this, and if it is written in a certain way, and if it passes …

    What I like about this column is that you provide a pro-conservative reason or rationale for every anti-liberal critique that you make. You tell me why I should lean right, not why the left is bad. That really makes you stand out in this era of shouting and screaming. So it always disappoints when I read a piece that only talks about the negatives of the other side and not what the right is doing to fix it. Thank goodness it is rare on this forum. Cheers!

  • mlindroo

    Jeffry1 wents:

    > In 2008 a shallow hack Chicago back room pol with zero accomplishments
    > other than he could read a teleprompter and he had more malanin than his opponent
    > (complete with his corrupt band of machiavellian Daley-esque minions in tow)
    > dressed himself up as a hopey/changey centrist healer rather than the die-hard
    > leftist he is and the fools in this country eager to feel good about themselves
    > through a messiah took the bait.

    *Laugh!*
    It’s amusing that the guy who managed (AMONG OTHER THINGS) to win the Nobel Peace Prize and pass the biggest social security reform since 1965 during his first 14 months in office is still regarded as an incompetent sad sack by Republicans. But never mind, Obama isn’t everybody’s cup of tea (or latte) and will never be.

    It must be extremely annoying that Obama (and his 59-60% congressional supermajority) got his chance thanks to the things Bush, DeLay & co. did in 2000-06. Or chose not to do, in some cases (health care reform being one of them:-)… Even the argument about deficits and the proper size of government carry less weight than they would, thanks to “compassionate conservatism.”

    MARCU$

  • TerryF98

    In fact Independent I cant think of any occasion where I have mentioned Stupak.

    I might be wrong on that because I really don’t have any strong feelings about him or how he dealt with the healthcare debate.

  • ottovbvs

    21 jabbermule // Mar 25, 2010 at 11:39 am

    ……We agree about the political optics if not the policy…….this is an IED for the Republicans which is why I’ve long thought he might play the card….but he has to get financial regulation done first which is another trump for him……the only really low card in his hand is climate change where the immigration splits in the GOP are mirrored amongst Dems…..which is why he’ll use regulatory action as long as he can

  • Independent

    minnie drewl advances the tired, worn line: “It’s amusing that the guy who managed (AMONG OTHER THINGS) to win the Nobel Peace Prize and pass the biggest social security reform since 1965 during his first 14 months in office is still regarded as an incompetent sad sack…”

    Well, winning the Nobel Prize certainly did lead lots of people to laugh out loud at the inappropriateness of the award, minnie.

    Pundits wondered what Obama was getting it for other than for being a darling of the farLeft in European salons the summer prior. But it was a bust. As bad a misstep as Al Gore’s inconvenient Nobel just as the world was learning that the global warming ruse was part hoax, part hype and more than a little fouled science.

    Kind of like Obama’s thwarted, failed and miserably expensive bid to woo the Olympic Committee into picking Chicago as a site… the OC had heard stories that the sheer cost of corrupt officials in Chicago would bankrupt the effort –but not before the Obami could fly teams of Chicago politico types and friends of the Obami and even the Michelle –America’s own Jackie O incarnate– over at taxpayer expense… no caviar was too good for the 1st Family America could be proud of since the Kennedys romped in the WH.

    I think Obama’s Nobel was given to make him look more presidential and help him remember his real support is with the socialist Left inside European salons gnoshing on caviar with the 1st Lady, the Michelle.

  • ottovbvs

    mlindroo // Mar 25, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    ” *Laugh!*
    It’s amusing that the guy who managed (AMONG OTHER THINGS) to win the Nobel Peace Prize and pass the biggest social security reform since 1965 during his first 14 months in office is still regarded as an incompetent sad sack by Republicans.”

    …….Let Jeffry 1 and co carry on underestimating him(I agree he’s Machiavellian but this is actually an advantage) ……..I was reading a profile of Bruno Cucinelli the founder and owner of the very successful Italian luxury knitwear firm who is a great admirer of the president and regards him as a sort Marcus Aurelius the philosopher emperor…….ho-ho-ho

  • ottovbvs

    Independent // Mar 25, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    ….Healthcare Hypocrite

  • Independent

    ottoBS tries to ply the water with: “Healthcare Hypocrite”.

    Don’t think so, ottoBS. My facts are the ones presented without spin, without artifice on a site where spinning is the national sport of preference.

    TeaBagged and others tried to paint GOPers as hateful violent people. The truth lies with their own –and your intellectual peers– the abortion industry democrat activists angry over Stupak’s obstructionism of the Obami’s One True Choice.

  • LFC

    Jeffry1 said… In 2008 a shallow hack Chicago back room pol with zero accomplishments other than he could read a teleprompter and he had more malanin than his opponent…

    Yes, because being black in this country has always provided such vast advantages over being white.

    …and the fools in this country eager to feel good about themselves through a messiah took the bait.

    Or ran screaming from the thought of the country being “lead” by an old man with positions that shifted like jello and a completely unqualified bimbo who couldn’t tell an interviewer what sources of news she read.

    I always laugh at the Palinites who tout that she had more executive “experience” than Obama while studiously ignoring that her executive years as both mayor and governor were pretty much failures. I imagine that they’re the same ones who touted Bush as the “MBA President”, studiously ignoring the fact that he was a complete failure as a businessman … and, of course, it shows with the recession he left us.

  • ottovbvs

    Independent // Mar 25, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    …….our own little Tartuffe…..enjoys socialized healthcare but insists others shouldn’t….puhlleeze

  • Independent

    ottoBS at #38, you’ve been trotting out that lie in thread after thread… like it’s some jewel of the Nile?

    You got it from TeaBagged. He lied. It’s not true. I haven’t even been inside the VA in A2 ever. My family and I use the hospital near our golf condo –it’s called Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale. I bet you’ve heard of it –it’s the one that all the citizens living under socialized medicine in their home countries travel to when confronted with a serious illness.

    Honestly, what passes for ankle-biting irritation these days is far lower here than it is at real conservative webzines burdened with farLeft nutjobs.

  • Independent

    TeaBagged writes: “You are full of shit without a doubt, when called for the lair and fool that you are you just run away.”

    Not at all, TeaBagged or TeaBagger or TeaBag or TerryF99… I didn’t run away. I explained that I don’t believe a word you’ve written and would be a fool to trust your promise or pledge to retreat from this site when proven wrong –sigh, again– because you’ve made a career out of dodging the FF bans dished out because reasonable people like Sinz54 found you to be a disruptive fraud and tool.

    You really can’t expect someone to honor a pledge if you don’t respect them in the first place –that’s my dilemma with you.

    And, please, kindly remember that even farLeft FrumBots are constrained by the Frum Forum’s Comment Policy. Your swearing and personal attacks need to end. This thread. Now.

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  • Independent

    I simply want to note that I enjoined TeaBagged or TerryF98, after he pleaded and begged to be taken seriously, with this:

    “You really can’t expect someone to honor a pledge if you don’t respect them in the first place –that’s my dilemma with you. And, please, kindly remember that even farLeft FrumBots are constrained by the Frum Forum’s Comment Policy. Your swearing and personal attacks need to end. This thread. Now.”

    I want to thank TeaBagged or TerryF98 for heading my injunction. Publicly. The swearing and personal attacks on this site by the farLeft of those who don’t and won’t agree with their lunacy and orthodoxy is appalling and dishonors the public square that DavidF is trying so hard to create in this tiny patch of Al Gore’s internets.

  • catzeb

    Mr. Frum seems to want to throw the Statue of Liberty into a cess pool.

    Of course he got here the same way as those coming in these days.

    But he seems to have forgotten that also.

    Just get what he wants and then make sure nobody else has a chance to do what he did – or what his family did back when there were no laws against anyone wanting to come here.

    The usual rightwing Extremists who thinks the country belongs to him and those who he agrees with.