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	<title>Comments on: Palin and Obama: Who&#8217;s Fooling Whom?</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Mandos</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82799</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82799</guid>
		<description>I know of no boilerplate leftist who thinks you are personally incapable of saving for college if you have a job with sufficient pay to do that and keep a roof over your head at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of no boilerplate leftist who thinks you are personally incapable of saving for college if you have a job with sufficient pay to do that and keep a roof over your head at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: JeninCT</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82797</link>
		<dc:creator>JeninCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82797</guid>
		<description>He recently defended bank execs for their bonuses because &#039;he&#039;s knows those guys&#039;! Otherwise, he believes we need big government to run the lives of everyone else, because we&#039;re so stupid we&#039;d blow our kids&#039; college savings in Vegas if he didn&#039;t tell us not to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He recently defended bank execs for their bonuses because &#8216;he&#8217;s knows those guys&#8217;! Otherwise, he believes we need big government to run the lives of everyone else, because we&#8217;re so stupid we&#8217;d blow our kids&#8217; college savings in Vegas if he didn&#8217;t tell us not to.</p>
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		<title>By: Mandos</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82769</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82769</guid>
		<description>What boilerplate leftist views does Obama hold again?  He recently defended bank execs for their bonuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What boilerplate leftist views does Obama hold again?  He recently defended bank execs for their bonuses.</p>
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		<title>By: JeninCT</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82768</link>
		<dc:creator>JeninCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82768</guid>
		<description>Anne wrote: &quot;Not ‘talking points’, Jenin, (she’s got those) but *facts.*&quot;

Like I said before, just keep believing that if it makes you feel better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne wrote: &#8220;Not ‘talking points’, Jenin, (she’s got those) but *facts.*&#8221;</p>
<p>Like I said before, just keep believing that if it makes you feel better.</p>
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		<title>By: JeninCT</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82766</link>
		<dc:creator>JeninCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82766</guid>
		<description>Kevin47 wrote: &quot;The problem is that he holds boilerplate leftist views and doesn’t understand why anyone would disagree with them, which means he doesn’t properly understand them, which means he cannot defend or modulate them.&quot;

Very well said! As to Palin, I admire her convictions, but to me her best quality is her fearlessness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin47 wrote: &#8220;The problem is that he holds boilerplate leftist views and doesn’t understand why anyone would disagree with them, which means he doesn’t properly understand them, which means he cannot defend or modulate them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very well said! As to Palin, I admire her convictions, but to me her best quality is her fearlessness.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82760</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82760</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oh really. You seem to be describing Palin perfectly.&quot;

Fine, but I am also describing Obama perfectly.  

&quot;So he takes on a room full of Repub congressmen and more than holds his own, but in your biased eyes he is nothing more than an empty suit.&quot;

He took eight questions.  He didn&#039;t more than hold his own.  He somewhat held his own, largely by pivoting to prepared material.  I think any politician in the country could do that, and if you read the transcript, he didn&#039;t do it particularly well.  

&quot;Yet, you can’t seem to see that Palin is the one who obviously has no clue what she is talking about.&quot;

If Obama is the standard-bearer in this regard, I think she&#039;s doing just fine.  That said, I am not impressed with her ability to answer questions off the cuff.  But my point wasn&#039;t about Palin, it was about Obama, who is lauded for his supposed communications genius.  

&quot;Oh really? Was it her winking, or her “Can I call you Joe?’ shtick, or her repeated peeks at her note cards, or her telling the moderator that she would only address the questions that she felt like answering, that impressed you so much?&quot;

Thank you for the compendium of talking points about the debate.  In response: Hairplugs, Teethcaps, fictional diners on Main Street...  There, that was useful.  

She was able to articulate McCain&#039;s vision for the presidency, and wasn&#039;t thrown off by anything Biden said.  If you want to decide she&#039;s an idiot because she awkwardly pivoted away from a question to get her talking points in, fine, but keep in mind not everyone hates her as much as you do, and that she would have a lot more debate prep by the time she encountered Obama.    

&quot;Biden was actually in a tough spot.&quot;

He also did fine.  

&quot;Let me ask you, why is it that she never held a press conference?&quot;

Campaign mismanagement from the get go.  That said, any press conference would not have featured the same questions as those posed to Biden, Obama, or even McCain, and any poorly delivered answer would have received ten times as much scrutiny.  

Imagine if it had been Palin who announced that FDR got on TV in 1929 to assure the American people after the stock market crash.  She was a liability in that she had no margin for error, whereas the other candidates had a rather substantial margin.   

&quot;I would not hesitate to bet on Obama in a face off with Palin.&quot;

Okay.  I think it would be close to a draw, and everyone would talk about how low expectations were for Palin...  After all three debates.  

&quot;But it will never happen.&quot;

Probably not.  My guess is that someone who isn&#039;t being talked about right now will get the nomination.  Whoever it is, the left will paint him or her as a rube and/or diabolically evil, and you will embrace the characterization.   

&quot;I wish she would, but she will never have the guts to run for the Presidency.&quot;

I think she already does.  The question is whether she has the internal polling numbers.  

&quot;What really amazes me is that so many people like you actually think she has anything to offer beyond her canned talking points and platitudes.&quot;

I think she has convictions, many of which I share.  That, and not her speaking abilities, is the source of her popularity, and also the hatred of those with whom she disagrees.  To disbelieve that she has anything, at all, to offer is rather myopic.  

I believe Obama has a lot to offer.  If he wanted, he could make a big difference in Iran, and could go a long way toward finding a moderate political path, a la Bill Clinton.  He is inherently likable and projects a lot of confidence.  The problem is that he holds boilerplate leftist views and doesn&#039;t understand why anyone would disagree with them, which means he doesn&#039;t properly understand them, which means he cannot defend or modulate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh really. You seem to be describing Palin perfectly.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fine, but I am also describing Obama perfectly.  </p>
<p>&#8220;So he takes on a room full of Repub congressmen and more than holds his own, but in your biased eyes he is nothing more than an empty suit.&#8221;</p>
<p>He took eight questions.  He didn&#8217;t more than hold his own.  He somewhat held his own, largely by pivoting to prepared material.  I think any politician in the country could do that, and if you read the transcript, he didn&#8217;t do it particularly well.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Yet, you can’t seem to see that Palin is the one who obviously has no clue what she is talking about.&#8221;</p>
<p>If Obama is the standard-bearer in this regard, I think she&#8217;s doing just fine.  That said, I am not impressed with her ability to answer questions off the cuff.  But my point wasn&#8217;t about Palin, it was about Obama, who is lauded for his supposed communications genius.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Oh really? Was it her winking, or her “Can I call you Joe?’ shtick, or her repeated peeks at her note cards, or her telling the moderator that she would only address the questions that she felt like answering, that impressed you so much?&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for the compendium of talking points about the debate.  In response: Hairplugs, Teethcaps, fictional diners on Main Street&#8230;  There, that was useful.  </p>
<p>She was able to articulate McCain&#8217;s vision for the presidency, and wasn&#8217;t thrown off by anything Biden said.  If you want to decide she&#8217;s an idiot because she awkwardly pivoted away from a question to get her talking points in, fine, but keep in mind not everyone hates her as much as you do, and that she would have a lot more debate prep by the time she encountered Obama.    </p>
<p>&#8220;Biden was actually in a tough spot.&#8221;</p>
<p>He also did fine.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Let me ask you, why is it that she never held a press conference?&#8221;</p>
<p>Campaign mismanagement from the get go.  That said, any press conference would not have featured the same questions as those posed to Biden, Obama, or even McCain, and any poorly delivered answer would have received ten times as much scrutiny.  </p>
<p>Imagine if it had been Palin who announced that FDR got on TV in 1929 to assure the American people after the stock market crash.  She was a liability in that she had no margin for error, whereas the other candidates had a rather substantial margin.   </p>
<p>&#8220;I would not hesitate to bet on Obama in a face off with Palin.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay.  I think it would be close to a draw, and everyone would talk about how low expectations were for Palin&#8230;  After all three debates.  </p>
<p>&#8220;But it will never happen.&#8221;</p>
<p>Probably not.  My guess is that someone who isn&#8217;t being talked about right now will get the nomination.  Whoever it is, the left will paint him or her as a rube and/or diabolically evil, and you will embrace the characterization.   </p>
<p>&#8220;I wish she would, but she will never have the guts to run for the Presidency.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think she already does.  The question is whether she has the internal polling numbers.  </p>
<p>&#8220;What really amazes me is that so many people like you actually think she has anything to offer beyond her canned talking points and platitudes.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think she has convictions, many of which I share.  That, and not her speaking abilities, is the source of her popularity, and also the hatred of those with whom she disagrees.  To disbelieve that she has anything, at all, to offer is rather myopic.  </p>
<p>I believe Obama has a lot to offer.  If he wanted, he could make a big difference in Iran, and could go a long way toward finding a moderate political path, a la Bill Clinton.  He is inherently likable and projects a lot of confidence.  The problem is that he holds boilerplate leftist views and doesn&#8217;t understand why anyone would disagree with them, which means he doesn&#8217;t properly understand them, which means he cannot defend or modulate them.</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82747</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82747</guid>
		<description>Not &#039;talking points&#039;, Jenin, (she&#039;s got those) but *facts.*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not &#8216;talking points&#8217;, Jenin, (she&#8217;s got those) but *facts.*</p>
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		<title>By: JeninCT</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82739</link>
		<dc:creator>JeninCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82739</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s pathetic is you repeatedly using the same, tired talking points over and over again. She left her job, she made a mean comment about city-dwellers, she didn&#039;t know what the Bush Doctrine was, blah, blah, blah. 

Movin&#039; on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s pathetic is you repeatedly using the same, tired talking points over and over again. She left her job, she made a mean comment about city-dwellers, she didn&#8217;t know what the Bush Doctrine was, blah, blah, blah. </p>
<p>Movin&#8217; on&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82735</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82735</guid>
		<description>jenin:    71% of Americans think she is not qualified (including thinking conservatives).    

But the more important question is why would you want to support a woman who dumped her job as governor to charge $100,000 speaking fees, wasn&#039;t sure why her son was in Iraq (she still doesn&#039;t really know if it has anything to do with Saddam), did not know anything about the surge, thinks there are &#039;real Americans&#039; and not &#039;all Americans,&#039; still doesn&#039;t know if the Bush Doctrine is wise or not, but now wants to bomb Iran?   

You guys are the scary ones that keep defending this obvious self-serving self-promoter.   Keep living in that alternate universe.   It is more important to you Palinistas to support a person so devoid of contemporary political knowledge about the world around her, in order to make brownie points off liberals .

How pathetic is that?  Very.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jenin:    71% of Americans think she is not qualified (including thinking conservatives).    </p>
<p>But the more important question is why would you want to support a woman who dumped her job as governor to charge $100,000 speaking fees, wasn&#8217;t sure why her son was in Iraq (she still doesn&#8217;t really know if it has anything to do with Saddam), did not know anything about the surge, thinks there are &#8216;real Americans&#8217; and not &#8216;all Americans,&#8217; still doesn&#8217;t know if the Bush Doctrine is wise or not, but now wants to bomb Iran?   </p>
<p>You guys are the scary ones that keep defending this obvious self-serving self-promoter.   Keep living in that alternate universe.   It is more important to you Palinistas to support a person so devoid of contemporary political knowledge about the world around her, in order to make brownie points off liberals .</p>
<p>How pathetic is that?  Very.</p>
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		<title>By: JeninCT</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/who-is-really-playing-chance/comment-page-3#comment-82734</link>
		<dc:creator>JeninCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=22108#comment-82734</guid>
		<description>CentristNY wrote: &quot;These weren’t obscure statistics that she wanted to keep handy. She had to write down the four ideas that were MOST IMPORTANT to her. That’s how little she grasps this stuff. (And to have done so only minutes after taking another swipe at Obama’s teleprompter use makes her look even stupider.)&quot;

Just keep believing that if it makes you feel better.

JimM wrote:  &quot;Palin is becoming a legend, in the lefts imagination. I must admit that I do enjoy their confusion.&quot;

Me, too! It&#039;s fun to watch everyone become so unhinged!

Micjahi wrote: &quot;I would not hesitate to bet on Obama in a face off with Palin. But it will never happen. &quot;

That&#039;s right. Just like those town hall meetings with McCain never happened. Obama will back out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CentristNY wrote: &#8220;These weren’t obscure statistics that she wanted to keep handy. She had to write down the four ideas that were MOST IMPORTANT to her. That’s how little she grasps this stuff. (And to have done so only minutes after taking another swipe at Obama’s teleprompter use makes her look even stupider.)&#8221;</p>
<p>Just keep believing that if it makes you feel better.</p>
<p>JimM wrote:  &#8220;Palin is becoming a legend, in the lefts imagination. I must admit that I do enjoy their confusion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Me, too! It&#8217;s fun to watch everyone become so unhinged!</p>
<p>Micjahi wrote: &#8220;I would not hesitate to bet on Obama in a face off with Palin. But it will never happen. &#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right. Just like those town hall meetings with McCain never happened. Obama will back out.</p>
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