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	<title>Comments on: When is a Hispanic Not a Hispanic?</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Obama is pure as the driven snow.... - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 2 - City-Data Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-58826</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama is pure as the driven snow.... - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 2 - City-Data Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-58826</guid>
		<description>[...] they are fools. It is the Democrats that are and always have been the racist. Read about it.  When Is A Hispanic Not A Hispanic?  In 2001, President George W. Bush nominated Estrada to the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they are fools. It is the Democrats that are and always have been the racist. Read about it.  When Is A Hispanic Not A Hispanic?  In 2001, President George W. Bush nominated Estrada to the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-42979</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 11:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-42979</guid>
		<description>ireign &amp; ottovbvs:  I think you&#039;re both right.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Roe v. Wade is now 39 years old, with a host of subsequent rulings on the same topic.  That&#039;s long enough for even a conservative to consider Roe v. Wade, however bad a ruling it was originally, as settled law.  Just as no one is seriously advocating overturning Griswold v. Connecticut--a MUCH worse ruling than Roe v. Wade--simply because Americans&#039; right to privacy is now settled law. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But in this day and age, when we&#039;re fighting a War on Terror and when Obama&#039;s liberals seem intent on growing the public sector at the expense of the private sector, Sotomayor&#039;s views on the rights of Gitmo detainees and on the rights versus responsibilities of the private sector are FAR more important.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ireign &#038; ottovbvs:  I think you&#8217;re both right.</p>
<p>Roe v. Wade is now 39 years old, with a host of subsequent rulings on the same topic.  That&#8217;s long enough for even a conservative to consider Roe v. Wade, however bad a ruling it was originally, as settled law.  Just as no one is seriously advocating overturning Griswold v. Connecticut&#8211;a MUCH worse ruling than Roe v. Wade&#8211;simply because Americans&#8217; right to privacy is now settled law. </p>
<p>But in this day and age, when we&#8217;re fighting a War on Terror and when Obama&#8217;s liberals seem intent on growing the public sector at the expense of the private sector, Sotomayor&#8217;s views on the rights of Gitmo detainees and on the rights versus responsibilities of the private sector are FAR more important.</p>
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		<title>By: ireign</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-55037</link>
		<dc:creator>ireign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 01:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-55037</guid>
		<description>Ottobs-By your own admission, you have a mba and not a jd (assuming you are telling the truth).  Even if you were the pre-eminent legal scholar in the country, you would have no idea how Kennedy or Roberts would vote.  No one knows for sure.  Moreover, Roe v. Wade is one of many issues before the court and hardly a gage of how &quot;mainstream&quot; a judge is.  Many on the left of the political spectrum who are staunchly pro-choice believe Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is interesting that you claim that Estrada has a &quot;appalling&quot; record yet you provide no evidence to support your assertion nor do you have any US legal background to make that assertion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ottobs-By your own admission, you have a mba and not a jd (assuming you are telling the truth).  Even if you were the pre-eminent legal scholar in the country, you would have no idea how Kennedy or Roberts would vote.  No one knows for sure.  Moreover, Roe v. Wade is one of many issues before the court and hardly a gage of how &#8220;mainstream&#8221; a judge is.  Many on the left of the political spectrum who are staunchly pro-choice believe Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.  </p>
<p>It is interesting that you claim that Estrada has a &#8220;appalling&#8221; record yet you provide no evidence to support your assertion nor do you have any US legal background to make that assertion.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-40511</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 20:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40511</guid>
		<description>If you want to assess how mainstream the conservative justices are on the court imagine if Roe was up for repeal how they would vote. It&#039;s not, nor is it going to be, but it&#039;s a useful test of where the conservatives stand. Kennedy would definitely vote to sustain it as would Roberts in my opinion because there is now a mountain of case law to provide precedent. Don&#039;t know about Alito but not a certainty for overthrowing it by any means. Scalia and Thomas definites to repeal. Scalia despite his endless preaching about originalism is actually the most activist judge on the court in the extent to which he is willing to overturn legislation and ignore precedent.     </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to assess how mainstream the conservative justices are on the court imagine if Roe was up for repeal how they would vote. It&#8217;s not, nor is it going to be, but it&#8217;s a useful test of where the conservatives stand. Kennedy would definitely vote to sustain it as would Roberts in my opinion because there is now a mountain of case law to provide precedent. Don&#8217;t know about Alito but not a certainty for overthrowing it by any means. Scalia and Thomas definites to repeal. Scalia despite his endless preaching about originalism is actually the most activist judge on the court in the extent to which he is willing to overturn legislation and ignore precedent.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-51500</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 20:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-51500</guid>
		<description>barker13 &lt;br&gt;7:47 AM&lt;br&gt;&quot;Good luck debating Otto on this, Sinz; I glanced at his post earlier and upon noting not one actual example of Estrada&#039;s supposed &quot;non mainstream&quot; legal history simply took it for what it was - partisan smears&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;.......He had an appalling record which is why he never got beyond first base while Roberts and Alito did. I expect these subtleties to escape you.    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>barker13 <br />7:47 AM<br />&#8220;Good luck debating Otto on this, Sinz; I glanced at his post earlier and upon noting not one actual example of Estrada&#8217;s supposed &#8220;non mainstream&#8221; legal history simply took it for what it was &#8211; partisan smears&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;.He had an appalling record which is why he never got beyond first base while Roberts and Alito did. I expect these subtleties to escape you.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-49379</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 20:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-49379</guid>
		<description>sinz54 &lt;br&gt;6:21 AM&lt;br&gt;&quot;Now if you&#039;re going to oppose Roberts,&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;......Er where did I mention Roberts in this thread? As far as I&#039;m concerned Roberts is conservative but mainstream just as Sotomayor is liberal but mainstream. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz54 <br />6:21 AM<br />&#8220;Now if you&#8217;re going to oppose Roberts,&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;Er where did I mention Roberts in this thread? As far as I&#8217;m concerned Roberts is conservative but mainstream just as Sotomayor is liberal but mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: ireign</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-48664</link>
		<dc:creator>ireign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-48664</guid>
		<description>Spartacus-liberal academics think that.  Few who are actually familiar with Rasmussen or Zogby or any other poll do.  I doubt you are fully informed regarding Bork&#039;s judicial philosophy.  Ginsburg, was the chief litigator of the ACLU&#039;s women&#039;s rights project.  While the ACLU is very well respected amongst legal academics it is pretty outside the mainstream for most Americans.  Dukakis lost an election in part based on his membership in the organization.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Democrats have been more active in opposing nominees because of liberal interest goups and because of certain Democrats on the judiciary: Schumer, Biden, and Leahy, have been far more strident than Hatch.  Biden, a few years before the Bork nomination had indicated his support for Bork.  He then decided since he was running for the Democratic nomination that he couldn&#039;t do it and set about not only opposing Bork but trying to ruin his reputation.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Please read this article http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/26/obamas-justice/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spartacus-liberal academics think that.  Few who are actually familiar with Rasmussen or Zogby or any other poll do.  I doubt you are fully informed regarding Bork&#8217;s judicial philosophy.  Ginsburg, was the chief litigator of the ACLU&#8217;s women&#8217;s rights project.  While the ACLU is very well respected amongst legal academics it is pretty outside the mainstream for most Americans.  Dukakis lost an election in part based on his membership in the organization.  </p>
<p>Democrats have been more active in opposing nominees because of liberal interest goups and because of certain Democrats on the judiciary: Schumer, Biden, and Leahy, have been far more strident than Hatch.  Biden, a few years before the Bork nomination had indicated his support for Bork.  He then decided since he was running for the Democratic nomination that he couldn&#8217;t do it and set about not only opposing Bork but trying to ruin his reputation.  </p>
<p>Please read this article <a href="http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/26/obamas-justice/" rel="nofollow">http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/26/obamas-justice/</a></p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-54474</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-54474</guid>
		<description>ireign:  Ginsburg and Breyer were overwhelmingly approved by the GOP, but I think most people would agree that they were both closer to the center than Bork was.  Also, Dems may have been more active in opposing nominees, in large part, b/c there have been more GOP nominees to oppose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, many people on both sides will raise more strenuous opposition depending on whether or not a nominee is likely to change the balance of the court.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I personally don&#039;t have any problem with openly opposing a nominee on political grounds.  I don&#039;t mean to pick on social conservatives, but I believe a lot of this started when they began to focus on the SC as the sole way of reducing abortion.  We can&#039;t openly ask if a nominee will overturn Roe so we simply look at all of the person&#039;s other cases to see if it&#039;s likely s/he will overturn or uphold it, and then we hide behind a pretext of allegations that the person is not qualified depending on how we think s/he will rule on Roe.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Both sides are very political on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ireign:  Ginsburg and Breyer were overwhelmingly approved by the GOP, but I think most people would agree that they were both closer to the center than Bork was.  Also, Dems may have been more active in opposing nominees, in large part, b/c there have been more GOP nominees to oppose.</p>
<p>Also, many people on both sides will raise more strenuous opposition depending on whether or not a nominee is likely to change the balance of the court.</p>
<p>I personally don&#8217;t have any problem with openly opposing a nominee on political grounds.  I don&#8217;t mean to pick on social conservatives, but I believe a lot of this started when they began to focus on the SC as the sole way of reducing abortion.  We can&#8217;t openly ask if a nominee will overturn Roe so we simply look at all of the person&#8217;s other cases to see if it&#8217;s likely s/he will overturn or uphold it, and then we hide behind a pretext of allegations that the person is not qualified depending on how we think s/he will rule on Roe.</p>
<p>Both sides are very political on this.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-41431</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41431</guid>
		<description>Sinz:   Do you have any evidence Obama opposed Roberts b/c of his race?  Of is this simply something you have surmised b/c he picked a Latino?  If it&#039;s the latter, you should be careful in the future not to accuse liberals of playing the race card.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You act as if this notion of an &quot;objective umpire&quot; has been a mainstay of SC jurisprudence.  If that was the really the case we would not be able to now look back at so many cases and see that they were wrongly decided.  If it&#039;s clear to us today that Dred Scott, Korematsu and others were bad law, why wasn&#039;t it clear to the court at that time?  Did the justices simply not understand the words in the Constitution, or were they more empathetic to the societal norms at that time.  Based on those courts abilities to rule correctly on so many other cases, I think it&#039;s clear that they were being empathetic.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for the statement by Obama that you posted, it is not a value judgment.  It&#039;s a statement of fact, with which most reasonable people would agree.  The Warren court did not take up many economic issues.  Instead, it focused primarily on social and criminal issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz:   Do you have any evidence Obama opposed Roberts b/c of his race?  Of is this simply something you have surmised b/c he picked a Latino?  If it&#8217;s the latter, you should be careful in the future not to accuse liberals of playing the race card.</p>
<p>You act as if this notion of an &#8220;objective umpire&#8221; has been a mainstay of SC jurisprudence.  If that was the really the case we would not be able to now look back at so many cases and see that they were wrongly decided.  If it&#8217;s clear to us today that Dred Scott, Korematsu and others were bad law, why wasn&#8217;t it clear to the court at that time?  Did the justices simply not understand the words in the Constitution, or were they more empathetic to the societal norms at that time.  Based on those courts abilities to rule correctly on so many other cases, I think it&#8217;s clear that they were being empathetic.</p>
<p>As for the statement by Obama that you posted, it is not a value judgment.  It&#8217;s a statement of fact, with which most reasonable people would agree.  The Warren court did not take up many economic issues.  Instead, it focused primarily on social and criminal issues.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/when-is-a-hispanic-not-a-hispanic/comment-page-1#comment-41329</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41329</guid>
		<description>Spartacus:  I was responding to ottovbs&#039; &quot;out of the mainstream&quot; nonsense.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re honest, in that you realize that liberal activists don&#039;t want conservative judges.  But AFAIK, conservatives have not wrecked any liberal&#039;s nomination by filibuster since Fortas in the 1960s.  It&#039;s been mostly conservative nominees who have had to run a gauntlet of hysterical screeching feminists and environmental activists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spartacus:  I was responding to ottovbs&#8217; &#8220;out of the mainstream&#8221; nonsense.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re honest, in that you realize that liberal activists don&#8217;t want conservative judges.  But AFAIK, conservatives have not wrecked any liberal&#8217;s nomination by filibuster since Fortas in the 1960s.  It&#8217;s been mostly conservative nominees who have had to run a gauntlet of hysterical screeching feminists and environmental activists.</p>
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