Comments on: What Conservatives Can (and Can’t) Learn From European Health Care http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Healthcare Public Option? - Page 7 - Offtopicz http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-58412 Healthcare Public Option? - Page 7 - Offtopicz Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:21:00 +0000 #comment-58412 [...] plan in competition. Here is the story I read about it where it briefly compared some Euro plans. What Conservatives Can (and Can’t) Learn From European Health Care __________________ Founding Member of The Patriots In Exile Club 11/5/2008 Anticipated date of [...] [...] plan in competition. Here is the story I read about it where it briefly compared some Euro plans. What Conservatives Can (and Can’t) Learn From European Health Care __________________ Founding Member of The Patriots In Exile Club 11/5/2008 Anticipated date of [...]

]]> By: Mike K http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-52676 Mike K Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:34:17 +0000 #comment-52676 Nice summary. I have studied the French and British systems and like the fact that the French system "grew in a haphazard manner." That makes it easier to evolve, as any system will have to do. The Dutch and Swiss models are problematic because those are small countries in size and have less of an urban underclass than we do. The illegal alien problem here makes solutions difficult. If we improve their access to care (which is already quite good. Visit an ER at night), we will have the entire population of Mexico here seeking care. For HHomer, infant mortality is all about what you measure. Cuba is low because they choose what to measure. Believe it or not, Michael Moore is not an expert. Australia had an excellent system at one time, with public hospitals and private insurance for doctor care. The Labour government turned that upside down in 1987 by simply telling people they didn't need their Medicare (the private insurance plan) anymore. They had made no provision to compensate doctors. It was just a campaign promise and they had no idea how to implement it. I was there just after. Pandemonium followed, as patients expected doctors to care for them but no provision had been made to replace the private insurance scheme. In Queensland, which had many more private hospitals, doctors told patients that they had better not drop Medicare if they expected to go to hospital. There was much less disruption in that state. Nice summary. I have studied the French and British systems and like the fact that the French system “grew in a haphazard manner.” That makes it easier to evolve, as any system will have to do. The Dutch and Swiss models are problematic because those are small countries in size and have less of an urban underclass than we do. The illegal alien problem here makes solutions difficult. If we improve their access to care (which is already quite good. Visit an ER at night), we will have the entire population of Mexico here seeking care.

For HHomer, infant mortality is all about what you measure. Cuba is low because they choose what to measure. Believe it or not, Michael Moore is not an expert.

Australia had an excellent system at one time, with public hospitals and private insurance for doctor care. The Labour government turned that upside down in 1987 by simply telling people they didn’t need their Medicare (the private insurance plan) anymore. They had made no provision to compensate doctors. It was just a campaign promise and they had no idea how to implement it. I was there just after.

Pandemonium followed, as patients expected doctors to care for them but no provision had been made to replace the private insurance scheme. In Queensland, which had many more private hospitals, doctors told patients that they had better not drop Medicare if they expected to go to hospital. There was much less disruption in that state.

]]> By: HHomer http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-39223 HHomer Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:14:07 +0000 #comment-39223 I agree with sinz54 that access to healthcare is the key issue. The infant mortality rate is higher in the US than it is in Cuba (per the CIA World Factbook) and this is a national disgrace. I agree with sinz54 that access to healthcare is the key issue. The infant mortality rate is higher in the US than it is in Cuba (per the CIA World Factbook) and this is a national disgrace.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-47108 sinz54 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 12:48:31 +0000 #comment-47108 During the 2008 campaign, McCain floated a health care proposal which involved consumers being able to purchase health care coverage from any insurer in any state. The hope was that competition would help lower costs. Whoever came up with this idea, forgot that virtually all managed-care plans today come with a preferred network of *local* medical providers--doctors, dentists, etc. If you choose a provider outside the network, the insurer may either demand a much higher co-pay, or may refuse to reimburse the provider at all. And typically, an insurer based in a state offers a network of providers that is based only in that region. For example, Harvard-Pilgrim of Massachusetts offers a network of providers that is based only in New England. How does that help a consumer in some other part of the country? A consumer in Ohio or Montana won't have any local in-network providers from Harvard-Pilgrim in his state. McCain seemed unaware that this was even a problem. The local provider networks offered by managed-care plans make national competition impossible. During the 2008 campaign, McCain floated a health care proposal which involved consumers being able to purchase health care coverage from any insurer in any state. The hope was that competition would help lower costs. Whoever came up with this idea, forgot that virtually all managed-care plans today come with a preferred network of *local* medical providers–doctors, dentists, etc. If you choose a provider outside the network, the insurer may either demand a much higher co-pay, or may refuse to reimburse the provider at all. And typically, an insurer based in a state offers a network of providers that is based only in that region. For example, Harvard-Pilgrim of Massachusetts offers a network of providers that is based only in New England. How does that help a consumer in some other part of the country? A consumer in Ohio or Montana won’t have any local in-network providers from Harvard-Pilgrim in his state. McCain seemed unaware that this was even a problem. The local provider networks offered by managed-care plans make national competition impossible.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-45699 sinz54 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 12:42:15 +0000 #comment-45699 The main reason why the GOP/conservative approaches to health care have not been well received by the public, is that the public cares about *access* and *guarantee*, whereas the GOP keeps harping about costs and philosophical fealty to free-market principles. What most Americans want is that a) they can get health care coverage no matter what their situation; and b) that health care coverage will be there for them no matter what their situation. I am convinced that meeting those requirements is impossible in a totally free market. And I can speak from personal experience about that if anyone is interested. I believe that health care reform should *emphasize* substantial market mechanisms--but it will still require more government regulations and mandates than free-market purists will like. The main reason why the GOP/conservative approaches to health care have not been well received by the public, is that the public cares about *access* and *guarantee*, whereas the GOP keeps harping about costs and philosophical fealty to free-market principles. What most Americans want is that a) they can get health care coverage no matter what their situation; and b) that health care coverage will be there for them no matter what their situation. I am convinced that meeting those requirements is impossible in a totally free market. And I can speak from personal experience about that if anyone is interested. I believe that health care reform should *emphasize* substantial market mechanisms–but it will still require more government regulations and mandates than free-market purists will like.

]]> By: nealjking http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-39918 nealjking Mon, 02 Feb 2009 08:22:35 +0000 #comment-39918 There are two fundamental problems I see with most conservative approaches to health-care: - If an insurer can pick and choose among clients, people will go uncovered. The problem will become worse and worse as better diagnostic/genetic/predictive information becomes available. - If access to health-care depends on employment, unemployment becomes an even bigger disaster than it is now. There are two fundamental problems I see with most conservative approaches to health-care:
- If an insurer can pick and choose among clients, people will go uncovered. The problem will become worse and worse as better diagnostic/genetic/predictive information becomes available.
- If access to health-care depends on employment, unemployment becomes an even bigger disaster than it is now.

]]> By: dragonlady http://www.frumforum.com/what-conservatives-can-and-cant-learn-from-european-health-care/comment-page-1#comment-44135 dragonlady Mon, 02 Feb 2009 02:49:16 +0000 #comment-44135 Very informative article. I do believe that the GOP has to but forth a compelling vision of health care that contrasts the Democrats in order to be competitve in future elections. Putting the consumer and market at the heart of it should be our goal. Gov Romney has also come up with some good health care policies that warrant consideration. Very informative article. I do believe that the GOP has to but forth a compelling vision of health care that contrasts the Democrats in order to be competitve in future elections. Putting the consumer and market at the heart of it should be our goal. Gov Romney has also come up with some good health care policies that warrant consideration.

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