RSS Feed MenuMy takeaways from the Washington Post survey this morning of Republican opinion:
1) Republican political leaders have very little room to maneuver. With 46% of Republicans and Republican-leaners declaring themselves “angry” at the Obama administration – and 77% refusing any compromise on healthcare – it’s unsurprising that Republican leaders do not dare to negotiate a better deal.
2) Had Congressional Republicans tried to exercise more far-seeing leadership, they would almost certainly have failed to carry their supporters with them. Rank-and-file Republicans feel little confidence in their supposed leaders. While 56% of Republicans and Republican-leaners credit the party with sharing “some” of their values, only 37% say that their party leadership shares “most” of their values. Only 55% think their leaders in Congress understand the problems of people like themselves.
3) Republicans disdain President Obama as culturally alien. 61% “strongly” feel that he does not stand for traditional American values, another 13% “somewhat” feel so.
4) Yet one has to wonder: how much of the anger felt by Republicans is explained by things Obama has actually done – and how much by the generally miserable situation of the country. Republicans have 401Ks too. Only 1% of Republicans name George W. Bush as the person who epitomizes Republican values, and 24% blame him greatly or somewhat for the problems of the country today.
For all the anger felt by Republicans, they are not a very radical group of people. They divide 50-50 on whether they wish to see religion exercise more influence in American life than it does today. Only one-fifth of Republicans think abortion should be illegal in all cases. The party still holds a substantial pro-choice minority: 35% think abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Half of the Republicans and Republican leaners surveyed said they “never” listen to Rush Limbaugh – more than say they never listen to MSNBC.
sinz54 // Dec 1, 2009 at 9:33 am
aDude: In the last year I’ve met a number of angry conservatives who believe this represents the end of America. They can’t articulate exactly how this changes anything
I’ve heard them articulate it very well.
Their worry is that all these newly arriving immigrant groups will vote for liberal Dems to give them more and more handouts, more and more largesse. And that this will bust the Federal budget and turn America into a European-style cradle-to-grave welfare state.
When Italian and Jewish immigrants arrived in America early in the 20th century, we didn’t yet have a gargantuan Federal government, with a zillion social programs. They were forced to make it on their own, despite the abject poverty they experienced. Today’s immigrants are arriving after the Federal government has already grown to gargantuan proportions and is ALREADY running up trillion dollar deficits and multi-trillion dollar debts.
balconesfault // Dec 1, 2009 at 9:35 am
When Italian and Jewish immigrants arrived in America early in the 20th century, we didn’t yet have a gargantuan Federal government, with a zillion social programs.
And we weren’t an empire, determined to spend whatever resources it took to have the most powerful military in the world at all times. Those things have costs, as well.
sinz54 // Dec 1, 2009 at 9:39 am
hormelmeatco: Third, the 39% figure among whites is misleading; Obama only got about 45% of the white vote and his approval numbers among whites were never really off the charts.
In 2010, Obama isn’t running.
And in the congressional elections, we don’t have “one man, one vote.” We have a Senate in which a state like Utah gets as many seats as a state like California. And we have a House in which gerrymandering has created safe districts for liberal Dems like Serrano (D-N.Y.) with huge numbers of minorities–but such a safe district, with a huge number of voters, still gets just one vote. While a district from Wyoming with far fewer voters also gets that same one vote.
That’s why the GOP could win a landslide in 1994, taking both the House and Senate, despite just splitting the popular vote evenly with the Dems. The way we structure the House and Senate makes it work out that way.
In the districts I’m talking about, the Dems had run “Blue Dog” and “Fighting Dem” type Dems to try to appeal to moderate and largely white electoral blocs. They succeeded–barely. Some of them won by only a few thousand votes in districts that McCain carried.
Those are highly vulnerable.
This is a reversal of what happened in 2006. Then, it wasn’t staunch conservative Republicans from staunchly conservative districts who were defeated. It was moderate Repubs like Christopher Shays from moderate-to-liberal areas who were defeated.
Chekote // Dec 1, 2009 at 9:58 am
The icecaps are shrinking, Chekote. Very obvious and it doesn’t need a scientist to put their imprimatur on those photos.
You do realize that ice caps have only been present about 20% of the earth’s history. I suggest you watch “How the Earth Was Made” on the History Channel. We have gone through many, many, extreme weather changes. There have been periods where the CO2 levels were higher than current times and we still had ice caps. The climate is highly complex. CO2 is one driver and so far what we have is computer models that failed to predict the cooling that has occured since 1998. If you are interested in protecting the environment and species, please note that the constant clearing and deforestation are doing more harm than AGW. Species are disappering because we are destroying their habitat by building more housing or growing crops for biofuels.
I have no problem with Gore making money. Except he is doing it by fear mongering. Plus, he has made a career of railing against the rich capitalists. Talk about hypocrisy.
MI-GOPer // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:45 am
AutomaticBSer chimes in from the crapper: “naturally no response to the definition of “urban” which clearly embraces sub “urban” areas…”
Well, let’s see, AutomaticBSer, you’re wrong again. I did define urban for you, my Village Idiot friend, it’s the corrupted, rotted, fetid stinking swamp of inner cities managed by democrats across America –Detroit, Gary, Flint, DC, Oakland, Philley, Burlington, et al. See #18, my Village Idiot and farLeft Jester. Of course, truth and facts never seem to get in your way for a little trollish spite-fest, no?
Your pal & intellectual soulmate –Balconesfault/BarryS– would like to paint it (urban) as some Bernie Madoff affluence of the democrat swill, but that exists only in the minds of democrat felon icons like Bernie and Martha Stewart… and their die hard, admiring fans like you.
Nope, former Governor Palin was right… what’s fundamentally wrong with Washington could be fixed with a solid dose of real common sense from Main Street Wasilla. Washington is filled to the brim with faux elitist, “urban democrat” poster boys like Kerry, Dingell, Waxman, Rangel, Pelosi and Hoyer.
You’d like to spin it into some distracted debate that former Governor Palin is a minority perspective… she’s not. I don’t share many of her views but one thing is clear –America is warming to Sarah Palin’s story (54% favorable now), they’re turning off to Obama’s act as Celebrity in Chief and all his Oz-like stagecraft, they’re turning against his health scare reform plans and they’re turning against the democrats.
The Celebrity in Chief now stands like a turkey carcass on Black Friday –sporting a bare-bones, negative 15% Rating… voters now poll the generic GOP ballot 7+ points over the democrats… a majority of voters do NOT favor democrat health scare plans (53-56%)… a majority of voters think the country is heading in the wrong direction (69%)… and a majority of voters think the GOP has better answers on the major issues of the day that matter –not the democrats– and on health care reform, American voters think the GOP solutions are slightly better than the democrat reforms.
David misses a big point in his article: GOP base voters aren’t the only ones angry with their leadership –so is America with Obama… and when Tea Party and TownHall patriots gather, their scorn is more directed at our Celebrity in Chief than it is at Steele, Boehner, Cantor or McConnell.
Like all good democrat trolls, AutomaticBS’er, you have the biggest problem trying to distinguish between a) conservative movement leaders like Rush, Sean, Glenn and others and b) GOP leaders. Frankly, I put Sarah Palin in the camp of conservative leaders & voices –not in the camp of GOP leaders and voices because I think she’s really speaking to their concerns more than those of party activists.
But then, if you and your fellow trolls did that, you wouldn’t have Sarah to kick around anymore, yes?
And you guys are all about kicking the can down the street and not about the goal of this site: “FrumForum.com is a site edited by David Frum, dedicated to the modernization and renewal of the Republican party and the conservative movement.” Keep kicking the can, AutomaticBS’er, pretty soon you’ll be the only Village Idiot in the street wondering where everyone went.
MI-GOPer // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:54 am
BlankHead tosses empty peanut shells from the cheap seats: “Not a surprise that with your mindset, you immediately jump to thinking of theocracy, when the rest of us are thinking democracy.”
Not at all, BlankHead… and it’s no surprise to any here that you’d get it wrong, again… I said “The Democrats built a greek temple to worship Obama Messiah in Denver ” to AnnieM’s ridiculous comment about the GOP having idols like Beck, Palin, Limbaugh.
I never mentioned God or religion. Your team is the one who used “theocracy” to deride conservatives in the 1980s and 1990s –and you try it again, shooting more blanks, here. Your team is the one who sneers in saying “Christianist”. Your team is the one who denuded the War on Terror for fear of alienating muslims and not practicing the liberal perfecting art of political correctness… which, we now know, lead to the slaughter of innocents by an Islamic terrorist at Ft Hood.
I said the democrats built an altar to worship the Obama Messiah in Denver –you say that means I’m thinking “theocracy”? You’re proving to be another Village Idiot all on your own, Balconesfault/BarryS. Stick to spin –the truth isn’t your friend.
ottovbvs // Dec 1, 2009 at 11:54 am
MI-GOPer // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:45 am
‘AutomaticBSer chimes in from the crapper: “naturally no response to the definition of “urban” which clearly embraces sub “urban” areas…”
Well, let’s see, AutomaticBSer, you’re wrong again. I did define urban for you, my Village Idiot friend, it’s the corrupted, rotted, fetid stinking swamp of inner cities managed by democrats across America –Detroit, Gary, Flint, DC, Oakland, Philley, Burlington, et al. See #18, my Village Idiot and farLeft Jester. Of course, truth and facts never seem to get in your way for a little trollish spite-fest, no?”
……..Unfortunately your definition doesn’t agree with one I provided from an encyclopaedia…..and judging by the subsequent rodomantade one has to wonder if you skipped the meds this morning
hormelmeatco // Dec 1, 2009 at 1:15 pm
“Those are highly vulnerable.”
How many of those will actually change parties?
2010 is not going to be a repeat of 1994. You’re too optimistic and overestimating the fatigue people supposedly feel towards the Democrats.
“In 2010, Obama isn’t running.”
You brought him up, not me.
MI-GOPer // Dec 1, 2009 at 4:56 pm
AutomaticBS’er chimes in from the real cheap seats: “Unfortunately your definition doesn’t agree with one I provided from an encyclopaedia…..and judging by the subsequent rodomantade one has to wonder if you skipped the meds this morning”
Well, this is maybe the 5th thread you’ve tried that ol’ far Left tactic of trying to discredit your better opponent by projecting onto to them an illness.
You’ve projected yourself here, automaticBS’er, as a highly educated, worldly traveller with extensive internt’l elan that would rival Thos Jefferson on his best days… and still you choose to make fun of anyone with an illness –real or, in my case, projected on to me by an inferior, hypocritical opponent like you?
It’s a shame that liberals like you fail to show the compassion you demand from others for yourself and your interests. What a shallow, hollow, little mind you have.
anniemargret // Dec 1, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Good grief, Charlie Brown.
Does anyone here really think anyone’s opinions are going to change the dynamics of their party, or policy? This is a blog. That’s all it is. We are throwing ideas back and forth, critiquing each other, getting whacked on the head sometimes, but so what?
I’ve agreed with both Chekote and Sinz many times and disagreed other times. Sometimes they agree with me, often than not, I get whacked a bit. I expect it. I did not join this group because I expect to be agreed with. I have learned some things here, that I probably would not learn on solidly liberal sites.
Mi-GOPer….in all sincerity, it is profoundly incorrect to think by barring any dissension here, you are doing a service. The Democrats here, or liberals, or ‘trolls’ or whatever are not going to change policy for conservatives, nor affect Republicanism. They may, however, give you food for thought.
btw – I’ve said at the outset that I am a left of center Democrat. I am not a nonpartisan. I registered from an Independent status of where I was at for over a decade to the Democratic party after Bush was re-elected. I still have an Independent streak in me and if the GOP ever sounds normal again or if the Democrats too a bad job at the end of 4 years…who knows, I may be Independent again. I am more concerned for this country and its citizens than my party.
But of course, why in the world am I trying to convince *you?*
Frankly, when the liberals were going off the deep end some years ago, I read and listened to critiques on other sites to hear what the opposition was saying. Sometimes the opposition is correct.
I was invited by David Frum to join in the discussion; my own good educated guess is that he perhaps is keeping the doors open in case some disgruntled Independent or Democrat wants to switch sides. In that, he is being wise.
However, if David Frum decides tomorrow he would prefer only conservatives or Republicans debate issues, than so be it. I will honor his wishes. So far he hasn’t done this, and since it is his site, I’ll join in when I can.
Chekote: I hear you on the climate change issue. I still am of the opinion that CO2 levels are still impacting the environment, despite the idiots that were playing politics. That is what makes me so angry. We have serious issues in this country, all of us, so it would be really nice from time to time that we can agree on something outside of a political frame of reference.
Or am I completely bonkers?
PS: I am watching “How the Earth Was Made”.. History is a great channel.
anniemargret // Dec 1, 2009 at 6:09 pm
chekote: My pov was not about you; I was referring to the moronic ’scientists’ who are playing politics with a serious issue. And yes, I still think it’s a serious issue.