I went to the Ivies. Oh no – your kid could turn out like me!

The proof is not in the polling, but in the electoral results. I agree that abstractly, people like the idea of “universal care.” But when they get serious about the tradeoffs involved in bringing it about, it leads to electoral fiasco, dating back to Truman and the Republican takeover of Congress in 1946 and again in 1952.

By the way, I’ve not even seen a Rasmussen or Fox poll that I know of. Again, I don’t understand why so many people can’t just respond to the arguments made, but feel some need to project.

Otto, comment 20, that’s a good argument. You are one sharp cookie.

“Why do I bring this all up – because people such as Sparty and Otto in these posts simply cherry pick a couple numbers and say, in essence, “see other countries systems are better, so we should adopt them.” (By the way, Otto, if you’re still out there, I again suggest you quit writing as if you think you know me. I’ve lived on (and been treated medically in) three continents, travelled on 5. As Jimmy Buffet used to sing, “don’t try to describe the ocean if you’ve never seen it.”) ”

…….And this guy’s a university professor?……. where?….. some third rate education mill ?……. Oral Roberts…. Regent?…….thank god I spent a ton of money sending my kids to Ivies

A majority of Republicans polled last week said they endorsed Universal health care…as ddid a majority of people in this country when they kicked the Republicans out of office last November.

Why do I bring this all up – because people such as Sparty and Otto in these posts simply cherry pick a couple numbers and say, in essence, “see other countries systems are better, so we should adopt them.” (By the way, Otto, if you’re still out there, I again suggest you quit writing as if you think you know me. I’ve lived on (and been treated medically in) three continents, travelled on 5. As Jimmy Buffet used to sing, “don’t try to describe the ocean if you’ve never seen it.”) My point is that assuredly by some measures every other nation’s system – even Zimbabwe’s – can probably be found to be better than ours. It is certainly worth looking to Canada and Britain and France and Switzerland to see what seems to work and what doesn’t, what are the costs and benefits they have found in practice. But you cannot just assert, as Sparty does, that everyone who disagrees with you is “uninformed” or an “ideological hack” because obviously it’s all hunky dory in other countries.

Thus, our superiority would be increased even more were we to eliminate Medicare? To no longer provide S-Chip? If we eliminated our system of VA hospitals and Military Hospitals providing healthcare to retired veterans, and outsourced those services to private insurance?

All would significantly reduce the size of the state involvement in healthcare.

“One way in which it is superior to almost every other country is that it keeps the size of the state smaller. Now, you may not consider that a value. But some of us do. I rank freedom and limited government quite high as a value. ”

…………Perhaps that’s why it costs twice as much as everyone else’s…..since you think there’s a causal link between the level of state involvement and the overall quality of the system it would follow that if we reduce the state’s role even further the cost will go even higher

“Once we move beyond that, we know that the U.S. is, in fact, superior to almost every other system in at least some ways.”

…………Perhaps why we rank 37th I think on the OECD list……I’ve personally been treated by the UK and French systems (I lived in both countries for several years) and the UK was satisfactory while the French was quite equal to the US…….you need to get out more

1. Broadly correct 2. Perception is reality…. if these people don’t think they have insurance they are going to avoid doctors and emergency rooms like the plague because emergency rooms are very expensive 3. largely guesswork many are legal and should be covered 4. They have no insurance for whatever reason 5. They have no insurance for whatever reason 6Balance; they have no insurance …….So what we actually end up with is about 10-12 million people composed of illegals and those who qualify but think they don’t…..I wouldn’t disagree with this so we have about 35 million people without insurance…….hardly an insignificant number and given that about 6.7 million people have lost their jobs since the start of the recession and many small firms have had to pull insurance I suspect the start point is nearer 50 million than 45 (Wellpoint’s enrollments alone were down about 350,000)

” So while most of them (most of us, really, as I’m in this group) do want to help the uninsured, most do not want to do so at the expense of damaging what is good about their own insurance. ”

………..Although this as essentially a Phariseeiacal attitude it’s not even true…..how is extending healthcare to others going to damage theirs?……it’s not…….And being happy about your care hardly takes account of the huge angst that exists amongst Americans who are concerned they might lose that healthcare they are so happy about.

………..All this is in any case largely moot since I have little doubt we’re going to see passage of a major bill almost certainly on recon that will look much like the President’s original wish list……perhaps we should check back in late November and see