Comments on: Tories Tackle Social Mobility http://www.frumforum.com/tories-tackle-social-mobility Building a conservatism that can win again Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:47:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Looking to Britain for freedom fighters? « Free Spirit Runner http://www.frumforum.com/tories-tackle-social-mobility/comment-page-1#comment-56211 Looking to Britain for freedom fighters? « Free Spirit Runner Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:32:14 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7584#comment-56211 [...] Conservative Party has not fought the advancing British State effectively and has instead adopted a compassionate conservative approach eerily reminiscent of President Bush’s own big government agenda, Cameron at least has the [...] [...] Conservative Party has not fought the advancing British State effectively and has instead adopted a compassionate conservative approach eerily reminiscent of President Bush’s own big government agenda, Cameron at least has the [...]

]]> By: dacookson http://www.frumforum.com/tories-tackle-social-mobility/comment-page-1#comment-55735 dacookson Sat, 11 Jul 2009 07:52:52 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7584#comment-55735 I'm cynical. For a start <i>limiting welfare to those who are genuinely seeking employment, increasing the criminalization of marijuana</i> are old Conservative polices that are also pursued by New Labour. The drug policy on marijuana currently flies in the face of common sense, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/yourview/1526306/Should-cannabis-be-decriminalised.html" rel="nofollow">public opinion</a> and most scientific research, but New Labour are terrified of being seen as soft on crime. It's not enough to say they <i>progressively removed negative perceptions</i> leaving the only positive perception of a party that cared, they actually changed policies to account for public opinion and, to some extent, reality. They then had an attractive platform and were elected, thanks in no small part to public antipathy towards a divided conservative government suffering a series of corruption scandals. New Labour then occupied much of the territory the conservatives had called their own, but also had a social justice dimension popular with the electorate. In fact you could almost sum up New Labour's success with two words; minimum wage. That symoblised the difference between the two parties. Despite all the horrifying mistakes of the New Labour government the Conservative Party have not opened up a definitive lead in the opinion polls. It's unlikely that they will sweep the board at the next election because their true policies are usually leaked at some point, like allowing the minimum wage to <i>wither on the vine</i> for example. The CSJ approach is only having a small impact on the popularity of the party in the opinion polls. People are just sick of New Labour. That's not to say that New Labour isn't suffering from adherence to outmoded policies, but if the lesson Republicans want to learn is to wait 13 years until the government slowly self-destructs then look to the UK . If it really wants to make itself a dominant force again then drop ideology and construct a platform that's rational and popular, emphasis on the rational, and put it in writing, not tinker around with perceptions. I’m cynical. For a start limiting welfare to those who are genuinely seeking employment, increasing the criminalization of marijuana are old Conservative polices that are also pursued by New Labour. The drug policy on marijuana currently flies in the face of common sense, public opinion and most scientific research, but New Labour are terrified of being seen as soft on crime. It’s not enough to say they progressively removed negative perceptions leaving the only positive perception of a party that cared, they actually changed policies to account for public opinion and, to some extent, reality. They then had an attractive platform and were elected, thanks in no small part to public antipathy towards a divided conservative government suffering a series of corruption scandals.

New Labour then occupied much of the territory the conservatives had called their own, but also had a social justice dimension popular with the electorate. In fact you could almost sum up New Labour’s success with two words; minimum wage. That symoblised the difference between the two parties. Despite all the horrifying mistakes of the New Labour government the Conservative Party have not opened up a definitive lead in the opinion polls. It’s unlikely that they will sweep the board at the next election because their true policies are usually leaked at some point, like allowing the minimum wage to wither on the vine for example. The CSJ approach is only having a small impact on the popularity of the party in the opinion polls. People are just sick of New Labour. That’s not to say that New Labour isn’t suffering from adherence to outmoded policies, but if the lesson Republicans want to learn is to wait 13 years until the government slowly self-destructs then look to the UK . If it really wants to make itself a dominant force again then drop ideology and construct a platform that’s rational and popular, emphasis on the rational, and put it in writing, not tinker around with perceptions.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/tories-tackle-social-mobility/comment-page-1#comment-55715 ottovbvs Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:02:14 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7584#comment-55715 Actually Britain has been the most socially mobile society in Europe since the middle of the 17th century. How else did someone who grew up in cobbler's shop in rural Wales become prime minister in 1916, or a footman and a teacher become a field marshalls in the first half of the 20th century, or a grocer's daughter become premier in 1980. My wife's great grandfather was a coal miner, her grandfather owned five collieries. It is of course argued in Britain that since the nouveau riche have taken over the conservative party from the grandees that's it's totally lost its way. Turning to the US there have been several studies have demonstrated that the US is actually far less socially mobile than most European countries. The US less socially mobile than France? Apparently such is the case. Actually Britain has been the most socially mobile society in Europe since the middle of the 17th century. How else did someone who grew up in cobbler’s shop in rural Wales become prime minister in 1916, or a footman and a teacher become a field marshalls in the first half of the 20th century, or a grocer’s daughter become premier in 1980. My wife’s great grandfather was a coal miner, her grandfather owned five collieries. It is of course argued in Britain that since the nouveau riche have taken over the conservative party from the grandees that’s it’s totally lost its way. Turning to the US there have been several studies have demonstrated that the US is actually far less socially mobile than most European countries. The US less socially mobile than France? Apparently such is the case.

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