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	<title>Comments on: Thomas Hardy&#8217;s Jude: Not Nearly Obscure Enough</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Rodak</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60562</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60562</guid>
		<description>Who today is equal to all of the above? Don Delillo, Richard Ford, Robert Stone, the late David Foster Wallace, and a host of others so numerous to list. I concur, for instance, with ottovbvs w/r/t McEwan. I would add Coetzee, as well. I&#039;m also a huge fan of both Updike and Percy, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who today is equal to all of the above? Don Delillo, Richard Ford, Robert Stone, the late David Foster Wallace, and a host of others so numerous to list. I concur, for instance, with ottovbvs w/r/t McEwan. I would add Coetzee, as well. I&#8217;m also a huge fan of both Updike and Percy, btw.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60560</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60560</guid>
		<description>dfl // Aug 17, 2009 at 2:43 pm
&quot; Who writing today is an equal to ........ Updike,&quot; 

.......Updike only died a few months ago ergo he&#039;s a contemporary novelist.......McEwan has written at least one memorable book, Amis certainly one perhaps two, for every Wharton, James and Conrad writing in 1905 there were a dozen clunkers starting with G. K. Chesterton who is revered on the right but even more tedious than Ayn Rand and that&#039;s saying something........ and who reads H. G. Wells today? although he did create some memorable ideas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dfl // Aug 17, 2009 at 2:43 pm<br />
&#8221; Who writing today is an equal to &#8230;&#8230;.. Updike,&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;.Updike only died a few months ago ergo he&#8217;s a contemporary novelist&#8230;&#8230;.McEwan has written at least one memorable book, Amis certainly one perhaps two, for every Wharton, James and Conrad writing in 1905 there were a dozen clunkers starting with G. K. Chesterton who is revered on the right but even more tedious than Ayn Rand and that&#8217;s saying something&#8230;&#8230;.. and who reads H. G. Wells today? although he did create some memorable ideas</p>
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		<title>By: DFL</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60555</link>
		<dc:creator>DFL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Who writing today is an equal to Hemingway, Updike, Percy, Faulkner, Dickens, Waugh, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Conrad, Sinclair Lewis, James, Orwell or the Bronte sisters?  Heck, does anyone today write better than that soft-pornographer of the Old South, Erskinbe Caldwell?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who writing today is an equal to Hemingway, Updike, Percy, Faulkner, Dickens, Waugh, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Conrad, Sinclair Lewis, James, Orwell or the Bronte sisters?  Heck, does anyone today write better than that soft-pornographer of the Old South, Erskinbe Caldwell?</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60543</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60543</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always considered Jude a story of just how difficult social mobility can be.  We have so many Horatio Alger type stories (along with no shortage of tales of the never-do-well wealthy falling on hard times) ... but the reality is that for the lower and even lower-middle classes, significant upward mobility is really a matter of threading the needle, one must have extraordinary drive and talent, and even then there are tons of pitfalls that can keep you from the success you pursue.  The interesting thing about Jude was that it didn&#039;t use the traditional barometer of &quot;success&quot; - great economic prosperity - but rather the more elusive goal of going from being poor to being accepted among the real elite unless you have accumulated great wealth to buy your way in.

The tragedy at the end is also the tragedy of being poor and not buying into all of societies conventions, and the personal disasters that can result when people become stressed and desperate.  It is the story we hear too frequently in America - the man who loses all and can&#039;t support his family who turns his guns on them and then himself - but we don&#039;t write novels about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always considered Jude a story of just how difficult social mobility can be.  We have so many Horatio Alger type stories (along with no shortage of tales of the never-do-well wealthy falling on hard times) &#8230; but the reality is that for the lower and even lower-middle classes, significant upward mobility is really a matter of threading the needle, one must have extraordinary drive and talent, and even then there are tons of pitfalls that can keep you from the success you pursue.  The interesting thing about Jude was that it didn&#8217;t use the traditional barometer of &#8220;success&#8221; &#8211; great economic prosperity &#8211; but rather the more elusive goal of going from being poor to being accepted among the real elite unless you have accumulated great wealth to buy your way in.</p>
<p>The tragedy at the end is also the tragedy of being poor and not buying into all of societies conventions, and the personal disasters that can result when people become stressed and desperate.  It is the story we hear too frequently in America &#8211; the man who loses all and can&#8217;t support his family who turns his guns on them and then himself &#8211; but we don&#8217;t write novels about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodak</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60517</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60517</guid>
		<description>It is my opinion, as a confirmed bibliophile and lover of good fiction, that never in history have there been so many fine writers of fiction working and publishing as there are today. If anything, there are far too many excellent writers publishing for one to have any hope of keeping up with them all. One may not like the content of their various works (if one is dissatisfied by the world about which they write), but one can fairly disparage neither their technical abilities, nor the quality of their vision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is my opinion, as a confirmed bibliophile and lover of good fiction, that never in history have there been so many fine writers of fiction working and publishing as there are today. If anything, there are far too many excellent writers publishing for one to have any hope of keeping up with them all. One may not like the content of their various works (if one is dissatisfied by the world about which they write), but one can fairly disparage neither their technical abilities, nor the quality of their vision.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60509</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60509</guid>
		<description>dfl // Aug 17, 2009 at 10:33 am 
&quot;because the novel has been in decline for a long time.&quot;

...........I&#039;m not sure this is true......in terms of the quantity of novels published my vague sense is that over the last 20 years as many as ever have been published probably more particularly since writers in other cultures who hitherto were largely unpublished in the west are finding their way here.......I&#039;m sure 75 years ago we&#039;d never have heard of Mahfouz.......you could argue the novel as art form is declining in quality.......to be honest I don&#039;t read too many new novels and most don&#039;t seem to measure up to a Fitzgerald, Conrad, Trollope, Waugh or Dickens although there are the odd exceptions.......but wasn&#039;t it ever thus........Fitzgerald has survived because he wrote some great novels amongst a lot of dross from people who are long forgotten</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dfl // Aug 17, 2009 at 10:33 am<br />
&#8220;because the novel has been in decline for a long time.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..I&#8217;m not sure this is true&#8230;&#8230;in terms of the quantity of novels published my vague sense is that over the last 20 years as many as ever have been published probably more particularly since writers in other cultures who hitherto were largely unpublished in the west are finding their way here&#8230;&#8230;.I&#8217;m sure 75 years ago we&#8217;d never have heard of Mahfouz&#8230;&#8230;.you could argue the novel as art form is declining in quality&#8230;&#8230;.to be honest I don&#8217;t read too many new novels and most don&#8217;t seem to measure up to a Fitzgerald, Conrad, Trollope, Waugh or Dickens although there are the odd exceptions&#8230;&#8230;.but wasn&#8217;t it ever thus&#8230;&#8230;..Fitzgerald has survived because he wrote some great novels amongst a lot of dross from people who are long forgotten</p>
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		<title>By: DFL</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60506</link>
		<dc:creator>DFL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I enjoy David Frum&#039;s book reviews but I wonder that part of the reason he is reviewing old novels is because the novel has been in decline for a long time.  And is the decline of the novel a sign of cultural decline?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy David Frum&#8217;s book reviews but I wonder that part of the reason he is reviewing old novels is because the novel has been in decline for a long time.  And is the decline of the novel a sign of cultural decline?</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60502</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>joedee1969 // Aug 17, 2009 at 8:58 am 
.........Yes I&#039;ve heard C. Rich is also going to publish the great American novel next year too......Scott Fitzgerald look out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joedee1969 // Aug 17, 2009 at 8:58 am<br />
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Yes I&#8217;ve heard C. Rich is also going to publish the great American novel next year too&#8230;&#8230;Scott Fitzgerald look out</p>
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		<title>By: joedee1969</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60482</link>
		<dc:creator>joedee1969</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60482</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never read Hardy. I hear C. Rich is coming out with another book soon about &quot; The Conservative Reconstruction Project&quot; I&#039;ve read his essay entitled that but can&#039;t wait to read the book. Between these two site I have found the middle of conservatism and could be happier. I told some friends about this site. I&#039;m trying to spread the word:

http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/05/fight-the-republican-purge/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never read Hardy. I hear C. Rich is coming out with another book soon about &#8221; The Conservative Reconstruction Project&#8221; I&#8217;ve read his essay entitled that but can&#8217;t wait to read the book. Between these two site I have found the middle of conservatism and could be happier. I told some friends about this site. I&#8217;m trying to spread the word:</p>
<p><a href="http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/05/fight-the-republican-purge/" rel="nofollow">http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/05/fight-the-republican-purge/</a></p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/thomas-hardys-jude-not-nearly-obscure-enough/comment-page-1#comment-60476</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10033#comment-60476</guid>
		<description>.......I&#039;m a great admirer of Hardy&#039;s novels but surely contrary to David&#039;s assertion with one exception they all end in tragedy. Well I suppose you could say that with Far from the Madding Crowd it is semi tragedy. Personally I found Jude one of the most depressing books I&#039;ve ever read along with Sophie&#039;s Choice. And although I&#039;m an avid re-reader I&#039;ve never felt any inclination to revisit Christminster.  You&#039;re probably right about him having exhausted his inspiration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;.I&#8217;m a great admirer of Hardy&#8217;s novels but surely contrary to David&#8217;s assertion with one exception they all end in tragedy. Well I suppose you could say that with Far from the Madding Crowd it is semi tragedy. Personally I found Jude one of the most depressing books I&#8217;ve ever read along with Sophie&#8217;s Choice. And although I&#8217;m an avid re-reader I&#8217;ve never felt any inclination to revisit Christminster.  You&#8217;re probably right about him having exhausted his inspiration.</p>
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