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	<title>Comments on: The White House&#8217;s Clumsy Timing</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65224</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 01:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65224</guid>
		<description>I agree the results speak for themselves....and they are very good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree the results speak for themselves&#8230;.and they are very good.</p>
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		<title>By: mlindroo</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65211</link>
		<dc:creator>mlindroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65211</guid>
		<description>As far as I am concerned, these people (=the neocons and their various apologists in this forum) just ought to keep their heads down in shame. They were running the show for eight years ( although they complain Bush only paid attention to their advice in 2001-04 which is just as bad,really). 
I think the results speak for themselves.

MARCU$</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I am concerned, these people (=the neocons and their various apologists in this forum) just ought to keep their heads down in shame. They were running the show for eight years ( although they complain Bush only paid attention to their advice in 2001-04 which is just as bad,really).<br />
I think the results speak for themselves.</p>
<p>MARCU$</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65208</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65208</guid>
		<description>This starts filtering all the way down through every aspect of foreign policy. Every action by a foreign power that’s not specifically aligned with American interests becomes interpreted as hostility … every other nations desire to act for their own security, when that action isn’t performed in concert with America, becomes a challenge to our global hegemony. --- balconesfault

That is just absolutely ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This starts filtering all the way down through every aspect of foreign policy. Every action by a foreign power that’s not specifically aligned with American interests becomes interpreted as hostility … every other nations desire to act for their own security, when that action isn’t performed in concert with America, becomes a challenge to our global hegemony. &#8212; balconesfault</p>
<p>That is just absolutely ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65183</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65183</guid>
		<description>The problem is that there are many in the Republican Party who are still infected with the Cheney gene ... and thus still embrace &lt;a href=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=2120605&amp;page=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the One Percent Doctrine&lt;/a&gt; in some form or another.

&lt;blockquote&gt;“If there’s even a 1% chance that WMDs have been given to terrorists, we need to treat it as a certainty, not in our analysis or the preponderance of evidence, but in our response.”
Dick Cheney&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This starts filtering all the way down through every aspect of foreign policy.  Every action by a foreign power that&#039;s not specifically aligned with American interests becomes interpreted as hostility ... every other nations desire to act for their own security, when that action isn&#039;t performed in concert with America, becomes a challenge to our global hegemony.

It is good for America to have diplomats, and intelligence community, and military planners who do look at the world through such a filter, vigilant for things which may turn into real threats.  It is not good for America&#039;s future security or prosperity to have politicians who react to each potential threat as an existential threat to us and our way of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that there are many in the Republican Party who are still infected with the Cheney gene &#8230; and thus still embrace the One Percent Doctrine in some form or another.</p>
<p>“If there’s even a 1% chance that WMDs have been given to terrorists, we need to treat it as a certainty, not in our analysis or the preponderance of evidence, but in our response.”<br />
Dick Cheney</p>
<p>This starts filtering all the way down through every aspect of foreign policy.  Every action by a foreign power that&#8217;s not specifically aligned with American interests becomes interpreted as hostility &#8230; every other nations desire to act for their own security, when that action isn&#8217;t performed in concert with America, becomes a challenge to our global hegemony.</p>
<p>It is good for America to have diplomats, and intelligence community, and military planners who do look at the world through such a filter, vigilant for things which may turn into real threats.  It is not good for America&#8217;s future security or prosperity to have politicians who react to each potential threat as an existential threat to us and our way of life.</p>
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		<title>By: mlindroo</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65180</link>
		<dc:creator>mlindroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65180</guid>
		<description>Sinz54, on Obama:
&gt; Morally relativist, transnationalist, nonjudgmental, supremely self-righteous.

&gt; In short, exactly the wrong type of human to be depending to keep America safe in a dangerous world.

As if the morally absolutist, fiercely nationalist and judgmental, self-righteous George W. Bush&#039;s decisions regarding Iraq were any better!! 
I don&#039;t know what world you and Frum are living in. The neocon approach was tried once, and the result was a disastrous and hugely controversial invasion of another nation for reasons that turned out to be false. It&#039;s taken five long years plus enormous sacrifices in monetary and human terms to rectify that decision. And the key foreign policy decision of that era is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT REASON for the total implosion of political support for the Republican party during Bush&#039;s second term, followed by the unlikely ascendancy of Obama and the Democrats.  
---
Say what you will about Obama, at least he seems to be making rational decisions based on what the current threats are as opposed to paranoid fantasies about what Iran &quot;might&quot; be doing ten or twenty years from now.  Geopolitical decisions that are costly/risky in military or diplomatic terms have to be based on the current realities as opposed to paranoid speculation and guesstimates about what the bad guys &quot;might&quot; be doing a decade from now. 

MARCU$</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz54, on Obama:<br />
&gt; Morally relativist, transnationalist, nonjudgmental, supremely self-righteous.</p>
<p>&gt; In short, exactly the wrong type of human to be depending to keep America safe in a dangerous world.</p>
<p>As if the morally absolutist, fiercely nationalist and judgmental, self-righteous George W. Bush&#8217;s decisions regarding Iraq were any better!!<br />
I don&#8217;t know what world you and Frum are living in. The neocon approach was tried once, and the result was a disastrous and hugely controversial invasion of another nation for reasons that turned out to be false. It&#8217;s taken five long years plus enormous sacrifices in monetary and human terms to rectify that decision. And the key foreign policy decision of that era is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT REASON for the total implosion of political support for the Republican party during Bush&#8217;s second term, followed by the unlikely ascendancy of Obama and the Democrats.<br />
&#8212;<br />
Say what you will about Obama, at least he seems to be making rational decisions based on what the current threats are as opposed to paranoid fantasies about what Iran &#8220;might&#8221; be doing ten or twenty years from now.  Geopolitical decisions that are costly/risky in military or diplomatic terms have to be based on the current realities as opposed to paranoid speculation and guesstimates about what the bad guys &#8220;might&#8221; be doing a decade from now. </p>
<p>MARCU$</p>
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		<title>By: agentprovocateur</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65175</link>
		<dc:creator>agentprovocateur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65175</guid>
		<description>Dick Cheney scare tactics didn&#039;t work for the GOP last year and they aren&#039;t going to work as a legitimate argument now, either.  What a sad, pathetic idea it is that the president will not do what he has to do to keep us safe.  This message is especially ironic coming from many of the same people who supported a president who did fail in that goal on 9/11.  What is it with some conservatives?  Here&#039;s a little newsflash--the Cold War is over, and we won.  But some people seem to be unable to function without having a bogeyman out there to oppose.  So, of course, when this new missile defense policy is announced, we see a knee-jerk reaction that the president is &quot;weak&quot; in defending our country and the new Stalin in the Kremlin has somehow won a victory.  To echo what someone wrote up thread, is Defense Secretary Gates also &quot;weak&quot;?   Does he also lack the balls to defend our country?  This is all sounding very similar to the lead up to the Iraq War.  We were told by armchair generals that we had to invade before Saddam got the nukes to destroy us all.  Now we are told that we must stand up to Putin!  Does anyone seriously believe that Russia will invade Poland?  Or, on a similar note, we are told that we must do something about Iran!  Even though any military option would be worse than the nonmilitary alternatives.  Perhaps some people need to stop the bedwetting.  While it is true that we live in a dangerous world, some people really do need to let go of their particular bogeymen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dick Cheney scare tactics didn&#8217;t work for the GOP last year and they aren&#8217;t going to work as a legitimate argument now, either.  What a sad, pathetic idea it is that the president will not do what he has to do to keep us safe.  This message is especially ironic coming from many of the same people who supported a president who did fail in that goal on 9/11.  What is it with some conservatives?  Here&#8217;s a little newsflash&#8211;the Cold War is over, and we won.  But some people seem to be unable to function without having a bogeyman out there to oppose.  So, of course, when this new missile defense policy is announced, we see a knee-jerk reaction that the president is &#8220;weak&#8221; in defending our country and the new Stalin in the Kremlin has somehow won a victory.  To echo what someone wrote up thread, is Defense Secretary Gates also &#8220;weak&#8221;?   Does he also lack the balls to defend our country?  This is all sounding very similar to the lead up to the Iraq War.  We were told by armchair generals that we had to invade before Saddam got the nukes to destroy us all.  Now we are told that we must stand up to Putin!  Does anyone seriously believe that Russia will invade Poland?  Or, on a similar note, we are told that we must do something about Iran!  Even though any military option would be worse than the nonmilitary alternatives.  Perhaps some people need to stop the bedwetting.  While it is true that we live in a dangerous world, some people really do need to let go of their particular bogeymen.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65163</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65163</guid>
		<description>From the Financial Times:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Vladimir Putin, Russia’s prime minister, on Friday welcomed the Obama administration’s decision to scrap plans for a missile defence shield in Europe as a positive step – but he said that other US concessions should follow.

In his first public comments since the White House announced its decision on Thursday, Mr Putin said that he wanted the US to support efforts by Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan to join the World Trade Organisation.

“I expect that after this correct and brave decision, others will follow,” Mr Putin said in a speech at the Black Sea resort of Sochi. These should include “the complete removal of all restrictions on the transfer of high technology to Russia and activity to widen the membership of the WTO to [include] Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus”, he said.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s what you get for being nice to Russia.  Demands by Russia that you be even nicer.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aea8e54e-a43b-11de-92d4-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Financial Times:</p>
<p> Vladimir Putin, Russia’s prime minister, on Friday welcomed the Obama administration’s decision to scrap plans for a missile defence shield in Europe as a positive step – but he said that other US concessions should follow.</p>
<p>In his first public comments since the White House announced its decision on Thursday, Mr Putin said that he wanted the US to support efforts by Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan to join the World Trade Organisation.</p>
<p>“I expect that after this correct and brave decision, others will follow,” Mr Putin said in a speech at the Black Sea resort of Sochi. These should include “the complete removal of all restrictions on the transfer of high technology to Russia and activity to widen the membership of the WTO to [include] Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus”, he said.<br />
That&#8217;s what you get for being nice to Russia.  Demands by Russia that you be even nicer.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aea8e54e-a43b-11de-92d4-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aea8e54e-a43b-11de-92d4-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65162</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65162</guid>
		<description>greg_barton: &lt;blockquote&gt; I see him as human. You see him as a straw man. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
You&#039;re wrong.

I see Obama as entirely human.
I see him as that subspecies of human, called Late 20th Century Liberal Human:  Morally relativist, transnationalist, nonjudgmental, supremely self-righteous.

In short, exactly the wrong type of human to be depending to keep America safe in a dangerous world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>greg_barton:  I see him as human. You see him as a straw man.<br />
You&#8217;re wrong.</p>
<p>I see Obama as entirely human.<br />
I see him as that subspecies of human, called Late 20th Century Liberal Human:  Morally relativist, transnationalist, nonjudgmental, supremely self-righteous.</p>
<p>In short, exactly the wrong type of human to be depending to keep America safe in a dangerous world.</p>
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		<title>By: greg_barton</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65159</link>
		<dc:creator>greg_barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65159</guid>
		<description>sinz, if you can&#039;t envision it, then you simply lack vision.  I can easily imagine Obama launching a nuke in retaliation.  And that&#039;s the difference here: I see him as human.  You see him as a straw man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz, if you can&#8217;t envision it, then you simply lack vision.  I can easily imagine Obama launching a nuke in retaliation.  And that&#8217;s the difference here: I see him as human.  You see him as a straw man.</p>
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		<title>By: stuiec</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-white-houses-clumsy-timing/comment-page-2#comment-65158</link>
		<dc:creator>stuiec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12315#comment-65158</guid>
		<description>balconesfault:

&lt;em&gt;I can’t envision Obama launching nuclear weapons, even if the U.S. was about to be obliterated.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;&lt;b&gt;I can. And I assume that 53% of the American electorate thought so too, or they wouldn’t have voted for him.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, but if you&#039;re the sheikh of Dubai, how much comfort do you get from America promising to avenge your death and the deaths of all of your subjects?  Enough to stand up to Iran&#039;s threats to annihilate your sheikhdom?

Fortunately, the Iranians did something very stupid when they funded a plot to blow up the Burj Dubai, the world&#039;s tallest building.  I would not be surprised if the Israelis were getting a backchannel message that, should their aircraft need an emergency landing &amp; refuelling spot in the Gulf during a strike on Iran, Dubai would not be averse to letting them stop there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault:</p>
<p>I can’t envision Obama launching nuclear weapons, even if the U.S. was about to be obliterated.</p>
<p>I can. And I assume that 53% of the American electorate thought so too, or they wouldn’t have voted for him.</p>
<p>Yes, but if you&#8217;re the sheikh of Dubai, how much comfort do you get from America promising to avenge your death and the deaths of all of your subjects?  Enough to stand up to Iran&#8217;s threats to annihilate your sheikhdom?</p>
<p>Fortunately, the Iranians did something very stupid when they funded a plot to blow up the Burj Dubai, the world&#8217;s tallest building.  I would not be surprised if the Israelis were getting a backchannel message that, should their aircraft need an emergency landing &amp; refuelling spot in the Gulf during a strike on Iran, Dubai would not be averse to letting them stop there.</p>
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