Comments on: The War Doesn’t End When the Troops Return Home http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58377 ottovbvs Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:53:32 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58377 sean linnane // Aug 4, 2009 at 11:29 pm "otto-whatever-yer-name-is, I am typical of nothing you ever met in your draft Army of the 70s - the men I served amongst are nothing like random groups of civilians in a factory they are professional soldiers" ........Actually it was the sixties........and you are very typical of a certain type......I'm also disappointed to hear that you dismiss all the guys who served in the sixties and seventies as unprofessional and not in your league.....a bit like my old man who served in Italy during WW 2 for hostilities only.....another unprofessional......I don't seem to remember the unprofessionals of my time including many long service guys who'd served in Korea being so sensitive about loose screws....... a different and less politically correct mindset I guess.....as for your anecdote about the tracker this guy sounds like a nut case who also needed psychiatric treatment just as Nickel does......and believe me I've known a lot of people who had "no support structure" ........I'm neither unaware of, nor unsympathetic to, guys who are having mental problems after active service......just trying to avoid the over emotionalism and exaggerations that seems to be your standard operating practise. sean linnane // Aug 4, 2009 at 11:29 pm

“otto-whatever-yer-name-is, I am typical of nothing you ever met in your draft Army of the 70s – the men I served amongst are nothing like random groups of civilians in a factory they are professional soldiers”

……..Actually it was the sixties……..and you are very typical of a certain type……I’m also disappointed to hear that you dismiss all the guys who served in the sixties and seventies as unprofessional and not in your league…..a bit like my old man who served in Italy during WW 2 for hostilities only…..another unprofessional……I don’t seem to remember the unprofessionals of my time including many long service guys who’d served in Korea being so sensitive about loose screws……. a different and less politically correct mindset I guess…..as for your anecdote about the tracker this guy sounds like a nut case who also needed psychiatric treatment just as Nickel does……and believe me I’ve known a lot of people who had “no support structure” ……..I’m neither unaware of, nor unsympathetic to, guys who are having mental problems after active service……just trying to avoid the over emotionalism and exaggerations that seems to be your standard operating practise.

]]> By: Dustin Ferrell http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58367 Dustin Ferrell Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:44:59 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58367 Just to make sure I understand, sinz - you see (statistically at least) no difference between PTSD suffered by a servicemember for all he/she has done or seen, and the large "mental illness" bucket that surely includes much less serious symptoms? I agree w/ balconesfault, and am frustrated as a veteran with how little the human cost factors into our decision to go to war (one I did support). Not sure why Linnane is getting called out exactly, or who in the peanut gallery is qualified to say whether he's "representative" or not. Just to make sure I understand, sinz – you see (statistically at least) no difference between PTSD suffered by a servicemember for all he/she has done or seen, and the large “mental illness” bucket that surely includes much less serious symptoms?

I agree w/ balconesfault, and am frustrated as a veteran with how little the human cost factors into our decision to go to war (one I did support).

Not sure why Linnane is getting called out exactly, or who in the peanut gallery is qualified to say whether he’s “representative” or not.

]]> By: Sean Linnane http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58366 Sean Linnane Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:29:18 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58366 otto-whatever-yer-name-is, I am typical of nothing you ever met in your draft Army of the 70s - the men I served amongst are nothing like random groups of civilians in a factory they are professional soldiers. You wouldn't recognize one if he kicked you up your fourth point of contact. Nickel doesn't have a "screw loose" - after what he went through he'd be insane if he DIDn't have PTSD One of the most professional, squeaky-clean-behind-the-ears Boy Scout fast-trackers I ever worked with - a guy called B.W. - his wife was having an affair, and the Command yanked him out of Afghanistan and flew him straight into psychological hell here in Fayetteville, North Carolina with no support structure, nobody to meet him on the tarmac, nothing. B.W. ended up killing his wife & later himself. I knew B.W. , and I never would have thought him capable of what he did. This is not "screw loose" this is PTSD - something NOBODY is immune from, and it can be fatal. Thank you for your kindness & understanding. You may now reinsert your cranium back into your fourth point of contact. - S.L. otto-whatever-yer-name-is, I am typical of nothing you ever met in your draft Army of the 70s – the men I served amongst are nothing like random groups of civilians in a factory they are professional soldiers. You wouldn’t recognize one if he kicked you up your fourth point of contact.
Nickel doesn’t have a “screw loose” – after what he went through he’d be insane if he DIDn’t have PTSD
One of the most professional, squeaky-clean-behind-the-ears Boy Scout fast-trackers I ever worked with – a guy called B.W. – his wife was having an affair, and the Command yanked him out of Afghanistan and flew him straight into psychological hell here in Fayetteville, North Carolina with no support structure, nobody to meet him on the tarmac, nothing. B.W. ended up killing his wife & later himself. I knew B.W. , and I never would have thought him capable of what he did. This is not “screw loose” this is PTSD – something NOBODY is immune from, and it can be fatal.
Thank you for your kindness & understanding. You may now reinsert your cranium back into your fourth point of contact. – S.L.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58361 sinz54 Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:15:16 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58361 ottovbs: I agree. Mental illness is not a rarity; studies suggest that between 15% and 20% of the U.S. population have some degree of mental illness, in all walks of life. Thus it's easy to cherry pick one or two out to support just about whatever conclusion you want to draw. Linnane is no more representative of anything in the military than those postal workers who "went postal" were representative of anything profound in the Postal Service. And did we forget about Lisa Nowak so soon? She "went postal" too--yet astronauts receive intensive psychological screening. ottovbs: I agree.
Mental illness is not a rarity; studies suggest that between 15% and 20% of the U.S. population have some degree of mental illness, in all walks of life. Thus it’s easy to cherry pick one or two out to support just about whatever conclusion you want to draw.

Linnane is no more representative of anything in the military than those postal workers who “went postal” were representative of anything profound in the Postal Service.

And did we forget about Lisa Nowak so soon? She “went postal” too–yet astronauts receive intensive psychological screening.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58342 ottovbvs Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:16:52 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58342 sinz54 // Aug 4, 2009 at 1:02 pm "Despite these hyped anecdotes, studies have shown that the rate of mental illness among returning vets is no higher, " ...........I'm sure this is broadly true.......from my own experience of military life, admittedly it was still a draft army at the time, the makeup of a group of soldiers looked fairly like the makeup of a random groups of civilians in a factory.......interestingly Linnane is typical of a certain type one came across....this unfortunate young guy Nickel obviously has a screw loose but we don't know the exact circumstances or whether he represents a continuing danger to himself or others......at the end of the day this has to be settled by the local medical, legal and police enforcement systems........the last thing that seems appropriate is politicians getting involved sinz54 // Aug 4, 2009 at 1:02 pm
“Despite these hyped anecdotes, studies have shown that the rate of mental illness among returning vets is no higher, ”

………..I’m sure this is broadly true…….from my own experience of military life, admittedly it was still a draft army at the time, the makeup of a group of soldiers looked fairly like the makeup of a random groups of civilians in a factory…….interestingly Linnane is typical of a certain type one came across….this unfortunate young guy Nickel obviously has a screw loose but we don’t know the exact circumstances or whether he represents a continuing danger to himself or others……at the end of the day this has to be settled by the local medical, legal and police enforcement systems……..the last thing that seems appropriate is politicians getting involved

]]> By: SFTor1 http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58340 SFTor1 Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:14:41 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58340 sinz, do you have any information on the consequences of mental illness in returning vets, compared to the general population? Are there more violent incidents? More firearms incidents? We sent those people into awful places. Now we need to take care of them. Statistics matter, but as far as I can tell it's the individual cases we need to worry about here. sinz, do you have any information on the consequences of mental illness in returning vets, compared to the general population? Are there more violent incidents? More firearms incidents?

We sent those people into awful places. Now we need to take care of them. Statistics matter, but as far as I can tell it’s the individual cases we need to worry about here.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58337 sinz54 Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:02:51 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58337 Despite these hyped anecdotes, studies have shown that the rate of mental illness among returning vets is no higher, and in some categories lower, than the rate of mental illness among the American population generally. Let's remember how the term "go postal" originated. Despite these hyped anecdotes, studies have shown that the rate of mental illness among returning vets is no higher, and in some categories lower, than the rate of mental illness among the American population generally.

Let’s remember how the term “go postal” originated.

]]> By: barker13 http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58332 barker13 Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:44:45 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58332 The Office of the *Governor of Idaho, Butch Otter, can be reached via 208-334-2100 *Can issue commutations/pardons. The two U.S. Senators representing Idaho are Mike Crapo -- (208) 334-1776 and James Risch -- (208) 342-7985; the Congressman representing Boise, Idaho is Mike Simpson -- (208) 334-1953 *All three men can obviously lobby their state's governor for clemency and if he declines they can make the request of President Obama. Finally... Lawrence Wasden is Idaho's State Attorney General. His office can be reached via (208) 334-2400 BILL The Office of the *Governor of Idaho, Butch Otter, can be reached via 208-334-2100

*Can issue commutations/pardons.

The two U.S. Senators representing Idaho are Mike Crapo — (208) 334-1776 and James Risch — (208) 342-7985; the Congressman representing Boise, Idaho is Mike Simpson — (208) 334-1953

*All three men can obviously lobby their state’s governor for clemency and if he declines they can make the request of President Obama.

Finally… Lawrence Wasden is Idaho’s State Attorney General. His office can be reached via (208) 334-2400

BILL

]]> By: balconesfault http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58320 balconesfault Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:09:39 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58320 Yeah, one more reason why politicians fantasies of an easy, clean, quick victory in Iraq were so dangerous. We are really good as a society of highlighting the risks of failure to militarily intervene in some situation around the world. We're pretty crappy at paying attention to the risks of deploying our troops. Yeah, one more reason why politicians fantasies of an easy, clean, quick victory in Iraq were so dangerous. We are really good as a society of highlighting the risks of failure to militarily intervene in some situation around the world. We’re pretty crappy at paying attention to the risks of deploying our troops.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/the-war-doesnt-end-when-the-troops-return-home/comment-page-1#comment-58306 ottovbvs Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:10:31 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9270#comment-58306 ............He sounds as if he needs some time in a mental hospital with proper care.......thank god there were no people in these apartments.......unfortunately the subtext here is the guy's military experiences are somehow a justification for his behavior.......they are .........and all the dissing of Walter Reed is totally gratuitous(all hospitals are grim places on good days), this hospital has done great work that does not deserve to be trashed with innuendos and half truths …………He sounds as if he needs some time in a mental hospital with proper care…….thank god there were no people in these apartments…….unfortunately the subtext here is the guy’s military experiences are somehow a justification for his behavior…….they are ………and all the dissing of Walter Reed is totally gratuitous(all hospitals are grim places on good days), this hospital has done great work that does not deserve to be trashed with innuendos and half truths

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