This morning, FrumForum.com broke news that the Republican National Committee has been stashing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s campaign wardrobe in garbage bags. Our story has been widely picked up on the Web and has generated much controversy. Some further things need to be said:
This story is not a story about Gov. Palin. In this matter, the former vice-presidential nominee did exactly the right thing. She promised to return the wardrobe at the end of the campaign, and she did return the wardrobe.
The story is about a dysfunctional party apparatus. Because of their own inability to act, the RNC has left Gov. Palin looking like a promise-breaker – and left everyone who donated to the McCain-Palin campaign feeling like a fool.
The rage in the donor community about the wardrobe is real and intense. Our party was gasping for funds in 2008. We could not afford to waste a dime. More to the point: not every Republican donor is rich. Many are people to whom the $200 or $500 or $1000 they give represents a real sacrifice. They need to know that their sacrifice has not been used frivolously. The RNC’s protracted delay in donating the clothes as promised raises a troubling question: Will our party be embarrassed by what those bags contain?
Our party has been crippled by an all-pervading assumption at the center that if you just don’t talk about bad news, it will go away: whether it’s an extravagant wardrobe decision - or a bad job creation record. Our leaders cocoon themselves, refuse to hear unwelcome news, and reward yesmanship.
We have seen this attitude again in the reaction in some quarters to our story. If only Frum Forum had refrained from mentioning the obvious – that Palin’s promise had been left hanging in midair – why then nobody else would mention it either. And if nobody mentioned it, then it would disappear. Right? Not right. As soon as Gov. Palin returned to the national scene, so too would all the unanswered questions left over from the last campaign.
There is obviously something seriously wrong with the decision making at the Republican center. It is this leadership dysfunction that should be the central issue in the race for the chairmanship of the RNC. Tragically however it is generally assumed that the frontrunner in the race is the current incumbent: a man who apparently thinks that stuffing unwanted things in trash bags makes them magically disappear. Meanwhile, the man who offers a charismatic, telegenic face for our party – Michael Steele – is disregarded because he has accumulated some ideological speeding tickets as he fought and nearly won a tight senatorial race in one of the nation’s bluest states.
Gov. Palin remains a controversial figure in the Republican party. But the moral of this particular story is not a moral that bears on her. The moral bears on the RNC, an organization whose leaders think that evasion is a solution. It’s time for new leadership at the RNC and at all the highest levels of our party organization.
79 responses so far
1 Oneon1isto // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Right on, Frum. Although while one might look forward to the “Name”-gate that could be attached to this story, the issue linked to this non-issue is the sheer inability of the RNC to move on something so obvious, especially after getting their wrist slapped in the general for it. Their house is in disorder and disarray, and this isn’t gotcha stuff. It’s about keeping your house in order and taking care of your business.
2 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:27 pm
In fact I’ll bet it pained you to write this pathetic disclaimer, since Palin represents to you everything wrong in America
3 eli // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:36 pm
“Bash Republicans club of America,” senorlechero? 2008 showed that the Republican Party needs to be reformed. “Bashing” the establishment is doing just that. Would you disagree?
4 Oneon1isto // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:39 pm
For the record, I like the term “ideological speeding tickets”.
5 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I do disagree. Bashing republicans should be reserved for democrats, and we should aim all of our bashing at them. Should we constructively attempt to find a better way to communicate our ideas and convictions…yes, but so far what I see in this website falls far short of that.
6 dadai.2 // Jan 23, 2009 at 1:40 pm
David, the GOP is definitely in a dysfunctional state. But this seems to be an item that is rather at the bottom of the list of concerns. And I must disagree with you as to the what this story was about. The last paragraph sums up its focus: “Supporters of the Alaska governor should worry that the RNC’s stalling lends credence to negative speculation. Did the RNC and campaign spend more than the quoted $180,000 figure? How much was spent on other members of Palin’s family? Perhaps the RNC hopes that stashing the clothes will make the story go away. That is unrealistic; if the governor returns to the national stage, so will any unanswered questions.”… i.e. Sarah’s gonna have problems and thus be a problem for the GOP. Tacky.
7 AnotherThought // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Well, here’s another web site that I don’t need to frequent, so it’s good to be able to mark one off. The motive for this story is obvious: keep negative stories about Palin “out there”. To say that the story wasn’t about Palin insults my intelligence. It had two main purposes: affect Palin negatively and get publicity for your web site. Trashing the RNC at the same time is just a fortunate bonus for you, huh?
8 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:11 pm
good post AnotherThought. Right on the mark
9 dragonlady // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:12 pm
This is a complete non-story. Frum, have you donated any clothes to charity? Do you donate them in Saks Fifth Avenue designer bags? Do you actually want to heal the rift in the party between the social conservatives and more “libertarian” or “moderate “conservatives? How are you doing that by trashing the RNC over such a trivial issue? Why do you feel you have to mimick the NYT in order to get the GOP elected?
10 artigiano // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Poor RNC just still doesn’t get it. he Internet is the greatest lie detector ever invented. If it hadn’t been Frum it would have been some other site. The truth will out. But in our day and age it will out much faster and on a global scale within minutes.
McCain never understood that you can’t go around saying anything you please only to have video where you contradict yourself appear on YouTube within a hour. Palin understood even less, and it showed. And where are those medical records she promised to release that was going to make the Trig’s real Mom story go away?
11 SCSoxFan // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Artigiano, Palin released the same type of medical statement that Obama did. She should release her records on the day that Obama releases his. And, please, go to Sullivan’s site if you want to continue to peddle “Trig Trutherism.”
12 SCSoxFan // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:33 pm
By the way, Mr. Frum, Palin has an 85% approval rating in the GOP, as reported last week in the last Fox News poll. So, saying she “remains a controversial figure in the Republican Party” is less than accurate. She is not favored by the NY-DC wing, and most of the rest of us are becoming more and more prepared to consider you a completely lost cause.
13 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:43 pm
SCSoxFan…..great string of comments. artigiano…..What an ignorant comment
14 paulbearman // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I must say, I am surprised to see such a moderate posting from you Mr. Frum. Pleased as well – some of your writings were far more off-putting during the recent campaign.
On this, I think you have struck clean to the heart of the matter. One poster below commented to the effect that it is not uncommon to put clothes in plastic garbage bags when donating them to charity.
This is true of old jeans given to the Goodwill – but far less true when talking about expensive clothing such as this.
And ignoring unpleasant tasks, not performing tasks to the best of our abilities, or simply not doing tasks that are beneath our dignity, is simply wrong.
Doubly so when those tasks are part of a promise to be kept. As in this case.
Only clear thinking and reasoned debate, not the strident, hate-filled nonsense we heard far too much of during the campaign, can help conservative causes now.
I understand it is not as much “fun” for people. But then, government is probably not something that should be fun. It should be onerous, and difficult, and time consuming, and not personally rewarding in a financial sense.
Perhaps then we can enjoy somewhat less of it.
15 Oneon1isto // Jan 23, 2009 at 3:55 pm
At the Sox Fan: Eh, who’s the GOP now that’d give this 85% rating? All the moderates, libertarians and small-gov types have left, at least for the time being. And they’re not considered the “DC/NY” wing of the party either. Come down to Texas and I’ll show you some small government types the GOP left a long time ago. This “rest of us” mentality is what’s killing the Republican Party as you become more and more exclusive and rigid towards opinions outside of an increasingly narrow worldview.
The point behind the trashbagged clothes isn’t that it’s trivial–because it is. It’s that if the GOP can’t be expected to get the trivial details right, how can it even begin to tackle the far more complex task of remaking its image and revamping its policy statements? I’ve yet to see a dissenting view on this still-young news site that adequately responds to the real reason Frum created this site–and it is a REAL reason–that the GOP is in ideological trouble and needs a way out. It needs discussion. Screeching the minute you hear someone deride your party or candidate is not the way out. (Small request to Frum, please allow us to post with paragraphs–ok? thanks)
16 fact based // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:01 pm
oh mr frum this is still all about sarah
1. sarah denied or said the stories about her purchases were exagerrated
2. what is in the bags all the clothes purchased for her or a selection
3. she denied purchases were made for her husband or children…is that the case. ? Any clothes for them in the bag ?
open the bags, give the press an inventory and then you can put this to rest
17 green eyes // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Oneon1isto, I enjoyed your comment – very thought provoking and civil. Sarah Palin might not have been my choice for V.P., nor was McCain my choice for a Presidential candidate, but I am still puzzled by the utter revulsion and contempt by some on the right toward Gov. Palin. Mr. Frum, in reading your post “defending” Sarah Palin regarding the clothes purchased for the campaign, I imagined you wearing surgical gloves and a clothespin on your nose, while forcing yourself to type her name. What gives? Are you offended by her fractured syntax, labored pursuit of a college degree, big hair? If you could articulate your reservations about her, I would enjoy reading them.
18 Dennis D // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Obama just spend a disgusting 170 Million on his coronation and you are concerned over a few dresses? You must be kidding.
19 Dennis D // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Imagine what 170 Million could have done? If Obama had chosen on a small ceremony and spent the 170 Million on Child Healthcare now THAT would have been CHANGE. Instead we got an ridiculous display.
20 Dennis D // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm
When hiring someone I look at their record and resume and listen during an interview. Had I interviewed Obama I would have been impressed with his college transcript but turned off by his lack of accomplishment as an elected official. He basically did nothing. He was a below average US Senator . When I look at Palins record I see an above average person who attacked the Governor in her state of her OWN party. I see someone who has been successful in an executive position. I would probably hire Palin over Obama unless it was a Legal Job or a sales job,
21 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm
AMEN Dennis D….amen
22 Chekote // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:27 pm
It seems that we also have a cult of personality just like the Dems. They have Obama. We have Sarah Palin. Anything even remotely negative that mentions Palin is automatically labeled as hate speech against her by her cult following. Again, it is time for a new political party. David, I appreciate this site. I love it. Great alternative to RedState and the other orthodox social conservative sites. However, you need to come to the realization that social conservatives cannot co-exhist with social moderates. Time for a new political party.
23 SCSoxFan // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Oneon1isto and Chekote, it is interesting that you both seem to be hitting Palin for being a social conservative. While she lives what she professes to be her Christian values, she has not run on a social conservative platform (either for AK Gov or for VP) and has not tried to put social conservatism into state policy or legislation in AK. Palin (and RedState) are not “orthodox social conservatives” but are traditional Reagan conservatives, believing in the Reagan triad of less (and more efficient) government, strong and aggressive national defense, and traditional values. Frum believes that Reaganism is outmoded and must be abandoned and THAT is why he denigrates Palin. Her supporters are not a “cult.” She excites Reaganites because we see her as actually living the values of Reagan, far more than any other candidate has.
24 tarazeigler // Jan 23, 2009 at 4:56 pm
On the post: I am really struck by the utter stupidity of the RNC. I am not sure how such a mistake is made. Just drop the clothes off with a charity or two and be done with it. A simple solution to a very expensive mistake.
I am also struck by how Palin supporters see any mention of her (even when it is favorable) as an all-out attack. Palin has been doing this, too; even attacking John Ziegler, a huge supporter (and no relation to me), for how he posted clips of their recent interview. It would be wise of her to spend less time complaining to the media and more time studying up on international affairs so that she is prepared for 2012.
Dennis D: Speaking of resumes, Interesting comment about experience. Question: is being president not (at least somewhat) a legal job? One should certainly have a strong grasp of the law. Just an observation.
25 Chekote // Jan 23, 2009 at 5:29 pm
SCSoxFan
Reagan would not make it through the GOP primary. He actively opposed the Briggs initiative in 1978 which would have banned the hiring of gay teachers in California. Reagan was not this heavvy duty social conservative. He ran on reducing taxes and the size of government, defeating communism and re-building the military. He got elected because Carter was a total disaster. He got re-elected because he did a good job. His pro-life activism was limited to sending a taped speech to the annual March for Life. Banning the use of federal funds for abortions which even pro-choicers like me support. The Contract with America did not mention any social issues other than welfare reform. Not a word about guns or abortion. The GOP wins when issues other than social issues are emphasized. Yet, the social conservatives want to take credit for every victory and blame the social moderates for every defeat. Tired of this idiotic game. Time for a new political party that leaves the social issues to the states and focuses on reducing the size and scope of the federal government and promotes a muscular foreign policy.
26 Robert Graves // Jan 23, 2009 at 5:38 pm
David Frum, George Will, David Brooks, Peggy Noonan and their fellow travelers are not the future of the Republican Party. They have become the New Minority.
Sarah Palin, Michael Steele, Bobby Jindal, and other up-and-coming Republicans will define and lead the Party. They are the emerging New Majority.
27 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Right On Robert Graves. Frum and company are Democrat lite
28 MarkG555 // Jan 23, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Let me get this straight. Palin’s duds were supposed to go to charity, but were found in trash bags — and this proves that RNC leadership can’t face, or tell the truth.
Are you high? This is not a story. This does not prove anything. Is the pantry of new conservative thought really this bare?
29 bill15 // Jan 23, 2009 at 6:44 pm
tara
you lose any credibility when you site norah odonnel or david schuster. she did not attack john zeigler like reported on msnbc. zeigler did an interview with breitbart a couple of days after, and palin called him and denied there was any problem him. dont be a follower. Just an observation
30 WestCoaster // Jan 23, 2009 at 7:07 pm
TaraZiegler, you ask whether a president should be a lawyer. I don’t think so. Reagan was not, nor either Bush. On the other side of the aisle, I don’t believe Jimmah Carter is a lawyer. And further back, neither were Truman, Eisenhower … nor George Washington, for that matter. Recent lawyers in the White House: Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. I personally view an understanding of history, economics, and management as far more important than lawyering for a president.
31 Rapunzel46 // Jan 23, 2009 at 9:00 pm
The only reason Gov. Palin remains a controversial figure in the Republican Party is she (Thank GOD) isn’t a member of the inside-the-beltway cabal and didn’t graduate from Harvard or Yale. The attitude we’ve seen aimed at Gov. Palin from the GOP is the reason we are seen as the elite party that everyday people cannot connect with — so they keep voting democrat… There is a whole lot of us Republican Voters out there who like her very much and are appalled at how she was and continues to be treated.
32 DLJ // Jan 23, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Oh my the RNC not keeping this promise ranks right up there with Mr. Dodd not being forced by the “most ethical congress ever” to provide his loan details
33 senorlechero // Jan 23, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Good one DLJ…..snarky and placing the focus where it should be
34 ottovbvs // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:07 am
It’s not a big deal in itself although it’s keeping an old story alive, but as Frum says it is symptomatic of an attitude of mind that has become prevalent among conservatives. When we don’t like the facts we either try to sweep them under the carpet as in this case or deny they are the facts altogether. It’s disappointing that the response to this judging by most postings is boilerplate nonsense that just confirms Frum’s thesis. We hear about Dodd, Obama’s coronation, we don’t want Yalies in the GOP, and so forth. Frankly it’s all totally juvenile. We’ve just had our butt handed to us at two successive elections, the president has approval ratings in the high seventies and our big concern is coronations. I know exactly when this rejection of reality started but there’s no point in hashing that out.
I don’t agree with a lot of Frum’s positions but he’s making a bona fide attempt to point out a few realities of life for Republicans and conservatives. There’s clearly little enthusiasm to listen to them and probably won’t be for awhile but he should keep up the work because it’s necessary.
35 Hoosierdaddy // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:50 am
My only problem with the clothing issue is that it should not have happened. Everyone involved in the operation of the RNC must keep in mind that every detail will eventually be nitpicked. If you said that the clothing would be donated, then donate it ASAP. Not doing so leaves the organization open to political sniping.
Similarly, how could anyone be so politically deaf as to distribute the CD containing the “magic negro”? Yes, the song may seem entertaining to some, and its intent was (often deliberately) misconstrued, but the whole incident was politically stupid.
36 oodoodanoo // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:07 am
Frum and his kind are just angling to get Palin out of the way with this story. They can’t see her qualities, even though the rest of the Republican Party can. She isn’t part of the Washington set. She’s just someone who fights, takes a few knocks, gets up, and gets back in the game.
Sorry, you can’t sell me your snake oil.
37 senorlechero // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:29 am
oodoo…you hit the nail right on the head. Frum and his buddies can’t stand the thought of Sarah Palin being so popular among the base of the GOP. I’ll take her any day over anyone frum puts forth. Keep this story in perspective. The Frum types in the McCain campaign never liked Palin and tripped her up at every opportunity. Even after they election they continued, spreading rumors about her. Funny that you don’t hear Frum asking “who…WHO…is responsible for the Palin clothes issue?” My guess is Frum knows and it’s one of his buddies and it is an effort to attach a negative stigma to Palin’s name.
38 PatD // Jan 24, 2009 at 12:19 pm
More volunteers for the conservative circular firing squad show themselves daily. All the Palinbots are in. Frum and other centrist GOPers nascent grip on reality has him in the cross hairs of the GOP old guard. All the while Limbaugh, Savage, Ingall et all shoot wildly from the lip as the Malkins, Coulters and Kristols keep the “Fighting 101st Keyboardists” in fighting form.
In the end what we have is the distilled essence of the the only thing movement conservatism is good for,
LIP SERVICE.
I do not mean the Rev Hagee or Congressman Foley variety. In other words, the right is all talk. Now that is not a bad thing. The bad things happen when they get an opportunity to put their talk into action, the world is littered with the wreckage of conservative policy put into action.
39 senorlechero // Jan 24, 2009 at 1:22 pm
PatD…that is a worthless post, except it proves my point about you so called moderates.
40 Clifton B // Jan 24, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Dear David;
First, I would like to say that it pained me greatly to have to register to this worthless site in order to post this comment. The RINO division of the RNC, has cost us greatly and I am loathed to do anything to further it along including giving hits to this site.
Second, your idea of Governor Palin being a controversial figure in the Republican party is just wishful thinking on your part. Latest polls find that she has an over 80% approval rating amongst Republicans. To the sane, that sounds like a consensus.
Third, the gun toting, bible clinging, conservatives that you elitist RINOs scorn so much, are the heart of this party. We are the ones who, donate the money, run the phone banks and cast the votes. Know this and know this well, WE WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING YOUR ILK EVER AGAIN! Take Reagan’s advice and go your own way.
Sincerely,
Clifton B
Bible toting, gun clinging, east coast, blue state, black conservative
41 bingley // Jan 24, 2009 at 8:24 pm
As far as Clifton B’s remark, what 80% approval rating is he referring to for Palin? At one point, in the tiny state of Alaska, she had very high governor approval ratings (but I think that was before her many lies started to come out).
If you are going to quote a poll, please provide a link because otherwise it looks like you pulled it out of your, uh, hat.
42 truth_2_power // Jan 24, 2009 at 8:29 pm
its painfully clear the complete collapse of the republican party… what remains of it is mostly right wing fundamentalist christians who are sarah palin and george bush worshipers… they know they are all that’s left of the party, but true republicans know the party will never be resurected with these pitiful folk running around with their jesus addictions in full gear… the republicans need to get back to their roots… fiscal responsibility, and getting government OUT of peoples bedrooms and personal lives … this means kicking out the religitards and homophobes and focusing on rebuilding the economy and infrastructure instead of going around the world building ‘democracy’ (re: chrisitianity) and wasting our money and lives on stupid wars… it’s up to the republicans whether they want to leave the party to the born again idiots or take it back and push the democrats to use money for good things like the economy and infrastructure (oh well, it may be too late since the dems are largely doing that for us)
43 senorlechero // Jan 24, 2009 at 8:39 pm
truth w power…that post was neither. The GOP “roots” have never been IN peoples bedrooms, nor in their personal lives. Using Democrat buzz words in not the way to go about reshaping the GOP. “OUT of peoples bedrooms” is an obtuse term Democrats have used to force mainstream acceptance of gays. They have coerced most states to adopt teaching guidelines to teach students, right down to kindergarten, that gay is good. Who’s interfering in who’s bedroom there? We’d be fine if gays kept it in their bedroom, but I reckon that might not be fine with you. I’ve never heard a conservative use terms like “religitard” or “george bush worshipers”. The Log Cabin Republicans use “homophobe”….but not with the joy you use it. My bet is you are a Democrat out to get your jollies raggin on those you hate. Hate is not a conservative value.
44 senorlechero // Jan 24, 2009 at 8:42 pm
There are way too many Democrats here in the comments section. I think Frum should make everyone here prove their GOP status. I don’t know how he would do it, but frankly, I’m sick of conservative sites ruined by liberal Democrats
45 truth_2_power // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:05 pm
i didnt say that GOP root values were in people’s bedrooms, i said that the GOP needs to go BACK to their root values when they were NOT concerned about people’s personal lives and decisions… the GOP used to think that the less goverment meddled in people’s personal affairs the better… as far as gays, it doesn’t matter what your religious values are because the fact is that gays are out of the closet and are not going back… this leaves us to either hate them and teach our children that gays are bad (which we know is a lie) or teach them to tolerate them (at worst) and to treat them like equal american citizens (at best)…. i use the term religitard because the born again christians lack common sense when it comes to politics and running a government… all they care about is if people are addicted to jesus and fundamentalist christianity… and face it, george bush and dick cheney and their ilk have used the born agains while laughing behind their backs… all done to push a neo-conservative corporate capitalist welfare system in where true republican values used to reside…. if you fail to realize this, you will be contributing to the downfall of what’s left of the republican party… this is the obvious facts and truth of the downfall of the republicans… hate and greed and fundamentalism never will result in long term success of any party… but good luck anyway
46 mrfreeze // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:07 pm
“Latest polls find that she has an over 80% approval rating amongst Republicans……”
1) I was in Italy when the candidacy of S. Palin was announced. Even the distance of an ocean couldn’t hide the incompetence and lack of substance of the woman. Even my Italian relatives were perplexed.
2) The symbolism of her expensive clothes in a plastic bag, hidden from the public is precious: It represents the disdain conservatives truly have for the American People. Just as the leadership of your party squandered this great country and any good will it had in the world, your sense of privilege and moral absolutism have made your heads soft. Everything is just a big, plastic garbage bag to you all: buy it, hang it on an empty idea, sell it and then throw it away. Precious.
3) Shallow, un-read, sophomoric and talentless – No, not another competitor on American Idol: it’s Sarah Palin. She’s the perfect Republican candidate for the next election: a puppet, yes-woman (as was GWB) who will serve corporate interests at the expense of you and your children.
4) I’ve never understood how working men and women with half a brain in their heads would ever vote for conservatives. Just reading the inane, inept attempts of dialogue on this blog prove the old saying: Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.
47 born_republican // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I agree with Chekote (1/23/2009 – 4:27 PM) who stated, “it is time for a new political party.” Bush’s base alone is not enough to sustain republicans who still wish to win rather than simply settle for an obviously out-of-favor ideology as rigid as theirs. It is time for something new. It is time for something more responsive and more respectable than that which currently exists.
48 realspear // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:20 pm
>>There are way too many Democrats here in the comments section. I think Frum should make everyone here prove their GOP status. I don’t know how he would do it, but frankly, I’m sick of conservative sites ruined by liberal Democrats
Whoosh! Frum talks about how conservatives stick their heads in the sand instead of listening to reality, and this poster argues that the solution is to stick everyone’s head back in the sand and not listen to reality. Doesn’t look good for a comeback with this attitude.
49 KYJurisDoctor // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:30 pm
“The story is about a dysfunctional party” … “Our leaders cocoon themselves, refuse to hear unwelcome news, and reward yesmanship.”
Amen, David! Amen!! OsiSpeaks[dot]com
50 mrfreeze // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:40 pm
realspear – I’m sorry you take exception to us Democrats (actually I’m more of a democratic socialist) pointing out how we see the Republican party, but (I really hate to agree with David Frum on anything) conservatives have truly stuck their collective head in the sand. There are a lot of Americans who see the results of conservative “values.” You don’t really believe in small government. You haven’t proven a respect for individual freedoms. You reduce huge, complex issues to the lowest-common-denominator “private matters” of abortion, religion and sex. You have managed to train your followers to respond to every issue with diatribes against taxes, while at the same time encouraging us all to spend ourselves into mountainous debt “because it’s patriotic.” So, here we are, in one of the most difficult periods of modern history and all conservatives can do is play petty semantic games with the language of politics. May I just say that you are on the edge of extinction as a party if you continue down this path. Time for you all to stop talking and start listening (to the other side) for once. You just might learn something.
51 Plutodog // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I had to chuckle at Clifton’s egotistical pain at having to register and log in to leave an opinion — and his oh-so-precious “hit” count. It looks like David Frum has started a thoughtful sight and is issuing thoughtful opinions, inviting thoughtful responses. And yet, many can’t resist the knee-jerk responses, seeking to turn the conversation to anything but the subject at hand. We hear about supposed Dem sins, RINO rants, attempted mind-reading of Frum’s motives, and empty me-too’s like senorlechero keeps lobbing. ~~ Look, all the man was saying is it’s time to take care of business and just because you’re in power and something is relatively a minor issue, doesn’t mean it’s wise or smart or competent to not follow up and take care of it. Ignoring it will not make it go away. Dems have gotten wise to how easy it is to spin this kind of thing out of control and out of balance–heck Repubs have taught them well. For those Repubs that want to make it out of the wilderness, you could do worse than giving Frum’s remarks a decent amount of actual thought process. ~~ For my part, I can’t figure out why some are blind to the limited appeal both within and especially without the Repub party with independents AND with moderate Dems. It seems like cutting off the ol’ nose to spite face in the name of loyalty to busted arse if you ask me.
52 dragonlady // Jan 24, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Mrfreeze, I find it comical you tell us we should bask in your wisdom when you have no intention of listening to anything other than your own diatribe. You are purely ranting…get a life.
53 Lisa136 // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Dragonlady, I find it amusing that you’re complaining about mrfreeze’s “rant” when your rant totally missed the point of the article. The thing about the garbage bags? It’s called a metaphor. I suggest you look it up.
And realspear- do realize that your complaint that there are too many Democrats here proves Frum’s point about Repubs cocooning themselves?
54 uraputz // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:24 pm
yeah, that’s it, TOO MANY LIBERALS THAT DARE WRITE HERE! glad to see that you gopers still value freedom of speech AS LONG AS IT SPEAKS THE WAY YOU WANT! I also get a kick out of the name of this site … talk about delusional LOL! you folks won’t have a majority for at least 20 years after bringing this great country down the past 8 years coupled with the obstruction of the last 5 years of Bill Clinton’s admin — you remember him, the most popular presidient ever.
again, best of luck in ‘12. please, please trot out the anchorage airhead!
55 uraputz // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:30 pm
oh, I must also add: just witness how effective the upcoming OBSTUCTION that the GOP will do to PRESIDENT OBAMA’s efforts to fix this nation that GWB all but destroyed will play on main street. there is a reason you had your ass handed to you nov 4th. I’d explain it to you but it is more fun to watch you guys freak out. enjoy your cocoon LOL!
56 Pharos // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I live in Dallas. Four years ago Dallas was solidly Republican. Dallas has become solidly Democratic. Two years ago no Republican judges were elected here. I believe that was true this year too.The Democrat won in the race for Sheriff even though nearly every law enforcement organization endorsed the Republican. I have Republican friends who have said they voted straight Democratic this year and didn’t even care who was running. One friend said he will never vote Republican again even if the Democrats run a serial killer for president. I believe Frum is making the point that if conservatives want to govern again they need to face reality and understand what went wrong and why so many people changed from Republican to Democrat in such a short time. In isolation this clothes nonsense is a non-story. It does however fit a pattern which reinforces what Republicans turned Democrat believe about the Republican party as it is today.
My friend who will never vote Republican again – what does he care about? He cares about his daughter. He wants her to have a good life long after he’s gone. To those who complain about Frum airing dirty laundry, I ask you, what do you propose to do differently to make my friend believe that Republicans care about the future of his daughter? Slogans and “returning to core values” won’t even register with him.
57 Pharos // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:57 pm
When I said “I believe Frum is making the point that if conservatives want to govern again they need to face reality and understand what went wrong” I meant what went wrong from the Republican perspective. Obviously Democrats thought nothing went wrong.
58 Scott in MN // Jan 24, 2009 at 10:59 pm
After watching Frum’s tortured interview on The Rachel Maddow show, where he reminded us what a pouting 4 year-old looks like, I would like to offer my help in his quixotic quest for a “new conservatism.” Conservatism is defined as: 2a: disposition in politics to preserve what is established, and 3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change. Frum’s complaints about the GOP highlight the practical impossibility of “new conservatism” – namely, that you can’t protect the status quo while at the same time doing something new. Sour-grapes GOP types can save time and energy by cutting their searches short – we have already succeeded in finding this new and exciting path… two words… BARACK OBAMA. Frum and GOP’ers alike will continue to bicker about this and that, but at the end of the day, what America and the World needed – and got – was someone who will do the right thing. Hey Frum, why not use Huckabee’s stolen title of Spike Lee’s film for the new name of your blog? “Republican’s Doing The Right Thing (for once).”
59 Pharos // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Scott, The Republicans should move away from a “conservative” philosophy because as your definition shows, it’s a lost cause. The Republican party under GWB was certainly not conservative. They radically changed many things that were well established in this country for over 200 years such as adherence to the rule of law and putting country before self.
I think even the founders of the modern “conservative Republican party such as Barry Goldwater, would have been appalled at what has been going on in their names.
60 Paros // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:22 pm
I was a Schedule C during the 2nd Reagan administration but I am no longer involved in the party or politics at all. But the Palin clothes are disturbing to me on two fronts and the fate of the clothes – stashed, returned or contributed don’t ease that problem.
I am STILL baffled that such an extraordinary figure could be spent on clothes for Gov. Palin and her family in such a short timeframe and that it was determined appropriate in the first place.
When I read Frum’s piece and his point about the involvement of the current Chairmanship frontrunner, I tried to imagine what the Frank Fahrenkopf RNC would have done concerning such clothes – either at the acquisition stage or the distribution stage. I’m not sure.
For me – the give away still is an evasion of the real issue – how and why were $180,000 spent on clothing for the vice-presidential candidate? It is appalling to me and I have yet to read an answer that even makes sense. Frum – help me out here. How was that justified in the first place???????
61 Pharos // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:31 pm
It would be nice if we could comment on other poster’s comments. Maybe you could follow the example of the Huffington Post for viewer comments.
62 mrfreeze // Jan 24, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Dragonlady and others – I sincerely didn’t want to rant. I only wanted to point out that there are a lot of us who don’t agree with everything conservatives believe. My observations are meant as a reminder that the harder we push at each other the easier it is to ignore the social and economic issues that are damaging everyone………Ultimately, we are all in this together. Call it “being inclusive” if you must, but when your family friends and neighbors are hurting, it’s going to take more than angry rhetoric to solve our real problems.
63 Pharos // Jan 25, 2009 at 12:17 am
I have just recently discovered this site and have been reading the comments. It seems to me that many Republicans simply do not understand what not understanding what happened to their party that cost them the presidency and their majority in Congress. Frum is right about not burying your head in the sand. It is not healthy for this country to have a one party rule that is so entrenched that no incumbent needs to worry about re-election. I want a reasonably strong but reasonable Republican Party. The sociological data for the last 60 or more years is extensive and extremely detailed. What Americans think and how their attitudes have changed over the years is very clear, self consistent, and is available to anyone who cares to look it up. When George McGovern proposed tax checks he was branded a liberal and lost the election. A half century later Bush does it, almost no one complains and certainly no one has accused him of being a liberal. If the Republican Party is to thrive, Republicans must accept reality as it is and not as they would wish it to be.
As I said in an earlier post, Dallas changed from Republican to totally Democratic in less than two years. People did not change their core values. They changed their belief about what the Republican party really stood for as opposed to what they used to believe it stood for ( with which they agreed – why is another important matter)
64 michigan99 // Jan 25, 2009 at 1:26 am
Although I have often heard David Frum as another Bush apologist, he is correct here when he states that Republican “leaders cocoon themselves, refuse to hear unwelcome news, and reward yesmanship.” I agree here because in a general sense what can be acknowledged as a difference between the Republican and Democratic parties right now is “monologue” vs. “dialogue”.
In the Republican party for years now this “yesmanship” is the top down monologue – a very disturbing and ultimately self destructive pattern and I dare say it is incompatible with democracy.
In the Democratic party we have now been witness to a real dialogue – with a lot of debate and expression of divergent views – and it can be uncomfortable (tremendously so for conservative americans not used to this!), but ultimately a healthy process.
Top-down Monologue vs. Dynamic Dialogue — Republicans will continue to self destruct if they don’t learn how to participate in the dialogue. It should be no surprise that Americans going to resist the monologue when the party line talking points don’t line up with reality based results. Conservatism has failed because of precisely this.
65 bikerdude // Jan 25, 2009 at 6:50 am
I didn’t realize Frum wrote this piece until after I read it. My thoughts were “why is this the issue when the republican party is destroying itself because of the egoistic greed of its leaders”. Then I saw Frum wrote it and it all makes sense. The reason he uses terms like cocoon is that they are protecting themselves from the likes of him. The Palin/clothes issue is just a symptom of the disease….
66 SBaker // Jan 25, 2009 at 7:49 am
“In this matter, the former vice-presidential nominee did exactly the right thing.”
In this matter, the former vice-presidential nominee EVENTUALLY did the right thing.
67 not fooled // Jan 25, 2009 at 10:25 am
The issue with republican leadership is that they appear to be unable think in terms of “the big picture” – their only able to see right here, right now. After watching Boehner this morning say that funds dedicated to education will not stimulate the economy, I had to shake my head and once again say that he just doesn’t get it. No, funds invested in education will not help today or this week – but 5, 10, 15 years from now it will have a huge impact. It’s not all about you – it’s about the future of this country, and until they recognize that, I think the republican party is doomed to obscurity – and justly so. Building this country from the bottom up – not just for today but for the future is the best path to follow. They just don’t get it.
68 DocRock // Jan 25, 2009 at 10:31 am
Realspear wrote….
“There are way too many Democrats here in the comments section. I think Frum should make everyone here prove their GOP status. I don’t know how he would do it, but frankly, I’m sick of conservative sites ruined by liberal Democrats Whoosh! Frum talks about how conservatives stick their heads in the sand instead of listening to reality…..”
Isn’t wanting to create a website devoted solely to one point of view, to the point that you want to make all members “prove their…status” in order to exchange ideas and views, isnt that ‘cocooning yourself” and “rewarding Yesmanship”?
If his post isnt a perfect example of what Frum is talking about, I don’t know what is. The Republican Party better start learning how to listen to other points of view, or they are doomed, which in it’s current form and mentality, is fine by me.
69 NRay // Jan 25, 2009 at 10:47 am
I am consistently amazed by any intelligent defender of Sarah Palin. Any group that chooses to base any part of its future on the slim reed that is Ms.Palin is lost.I have never seen a more vapid and incurious person applying for such high office. The only “leadership” she offers is into the political wasteland. Her feel-good parade of platitudes, accompanied by grunting “USA, USA” chanting from her listeners offered her country nothing in a time of great need. Find somebody with some new ideas for how to pull us out of the ditch we’ve driven into.
70 Athena // Jan 25, 2009 at 11:11 am
The failure of Conservatism is the failure of Socialism. Socialism allowed itself to be hijacked by Nationalism in the 1930s giving us the Nazi regime in the 1940s. Conservatism allowed itself to be hijacked by Nationalism starting in the 1980s giving us Neoconservatism now. Both of detriments to humanity. Thank you GOP for corporate fascism.
71 Realist // Jan 25, 2009 at 11:12 am
Sadly, David is right about Michael Steele becoming head of the RNC. Because of his moderate views on Roe v. Wade, affirmative action, and stem-cell research, there is virturally ZERO chance that he can past muster of the most extreme right-wing of the party. As recently as 2005, he was getting Oreo cookies thrown at him at him at campaign stops. Until we enlarge our base beyond a vocal hysterical minority, we will never be taken seriously by the country at-large again. Michael Steele has proven himself as one of the most wise and thoughtful spokesman for conservative viewpoints. To squander his talents would be another sad omen for the RNC.
72 Anonymous // Jan 25, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Cardin 965,567 54.2%
Steele 787,352 44.2%
Real close race there, Frum.
Once again, Frum reveals that he has yet to accept reality as a basis for his arguments.
73 RonniD // Jan 25, 2009 at 4:12 pm
1. Isn’t it ironic that one poster is asking that someone reading and posting mush ‘prove’ their GOP credentials before being allowed to respond . isn’t the point of sites such as this to discuss issues? 2. Please never ever use as proof a survey from Fox news. Their word should never be trusted as proof of anything . I recognize there purpose is to spin and support the conservative base, but this is exactly why their ‘facts’ should be distrusted.
74 senorlechero // Jan 25, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Realist…I’m on the extreme right and Michael Steele is ok with me. In fact I haven’t heard anyone in our camp bash him. We have no problem with moderates. Our problem is with moderates wanting to change the values of the party.
75 senorlechero // Jan 25, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I don’t know who Realspear is, but I posted that I would like democrats barred from posting. It’s not about viewpoint, its about democrats and liberals posting here to cause havoc. There’s enough havoc between the branches of conservativism, we dont need liberals posting too. Frankly I could never read, yet alone post, on a liberal or democrat site.
76 dragonlady // Jan 26, 2009 at 9:25 am
Mrfreeze, thanks for the olive branch. Likewise.
77 ProudLiberal // Jan 26, 2009 at 11:30 am
senorlechero
11:18 PM
I don’t know w Realspear is, but I posted that I would like democrats barred from posting. It’s not about viewpoint, its about democrats and liberals posting here to cause havoc. There’s enough havoc between the branches of conservativism, we dont need liberals posting too. Frankly I could never read, yet alone post, on a liberal or democrat site.
This is ridiculous. It’s a free country. Wever wants to respond to this article suld be able to respond.
I think you just exemplified one of the worst things about Republicans: you try to shut up anyone w doesn’t agree with you. Liberals do that, too, but I’ve never seen a liberal asking conservatives to be barred from an online discussion.
If your opinions aren’t strong enough that you can’t argue them, maybe they’re not actually your opinions. And if you want to strengthen them, the way to do is to argue.
78 like-mind // Jan 27, 2009 at 10:18 am
The word coming out of the McCain campaign was that Palin was told to buy a couple of suits for appearances, and she is the one who went on a ‘kid in a candy store’ multi-state spending spree. When she wasn’t able to spend anymore, she imposed upon campaign staffers to put further purchases on their own personal credit cards – that’s why there was a blow-up after the campaign loss: all those staffers submitted the expenditures for reimbursement. When Palin pretended that she was unaware of that the clothes were expensive (to try to reclaim her soccer-mom-ishness), she was lying: not only does any model/beauty queen know when clothes are expensive, but also the clothing was brought to her for trying-on by Personal Shoppers from Nordstrom et al, at her request and to her specifications.
This is an example of the denial and deceit that Mr. Frum rightly decries.
79 KayJay // Jan 30, 2009 at 1:07 pm
oodoodanoo said 1/24/2009 11:07 AM: “Frum and his kind are just angling to get Palin out of the way with this story. They can’t see her qualities, even though the rest of the Republican Party can. SHE ISN’T PART OF THE WASHINGTON SET?”.”————-Oh, no? Then why did she start up a PAC? Why did she engage a Mass. PR firm? Why is she NOT tending to AK business during that state’s trying times?———–She shouldn’t be interested in that Alfalfa Club old-fogies get-together this weekend if she were a “mavericky outsider”, and ESPECIALLY shouldn’t be interested in meeting and greeting Pres. Obama — after the way she denigrated him during the campaign. She’s a hypocrite through and through.———-as for the RNC clothing: My own personal belief is that the Palins took all the clothing out of the RNC plane when they returned to Alaska after the failed election attempt in November, and they replaced most if not all of the clothing — sprinkling a few sample pieces of RNC-bought clothing on top — with THEIR OWN old worn wardrobe. And the RNC knows about it, and is too embarrassed by this scam to “nail Palin”.
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