Comments on: The Stakes in NY-23 http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23 Building a conservatism that can win again Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:17:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: The Scozzafava Meme - Hip Hop Republican http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-71859 The Scozzafava Meme - Hip Hop Republican Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:26:48 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-71859 [...] in a smoky room in Upstate New York as the party bosses annointed her the leader.  But as Andrew Pavelyev noted, Scozzafava was picked through a fair process, not by some backroom deal.  It might not been [...] [...] in a smoky room in Upstate New York as the party bosses annointed her the leader.  But as Andrew Pavelyev noted, Scozzafava was picked through a fair process, not by some backroom deal.  It might not been [...]

]]> By: The Scozzafava Meme | Republicans United. http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-71845 The Scozzafava Meme | Republicans United. Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:56:31 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-71845 [...] in a smoky room in Upstate New York as the party bosses annointed her the leader.  But as Andrew Pavelyev noted, Scozzafava was picked through a fair process, not by some backroom deal.  It might not been [...] [...] in a smoky room in Upstate New York as the party bosses annointed her the leader.  But as Andrew Pavelyev noted, Scozzafava was picked through a fair process, not by some backroom deal.  It might not been [...]

]]> By: franco 2 http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70951 franco 2 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:49:00 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70951 I'm confused. How is it that Democrats are un-conservative and this is supposed to be a bad thing yet being conservative is also a bad thing? Oh yeah you need to be somewhere in the middle. That is the ideological purity that you want. Don't believe in anything in particular just be somewhere in the middle. Brilliant! I’m confused. How is it that Democrats are un-conservative and this is supposed to be a bad thing yet being conservative is also a bad thing? Oh yeah you need to be somewhere in the middle. That is the ideological purity that you want. Don’t believe in anything in particular just be somewhere in the middle. Brilliant!

]]> By: Socrates http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70846 Socrates Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:31:17 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70846 Huffman's lost is a victory for the people of NY23. In fact, all four elections (NJ, VA, NY23, CA10) have one thing in common: local issues. People live in the real world and they want to know who can help them with their problems, not who is the most "pure" ideologically. That should be one of the lessons for those who are planning to run in 2010: what are you going to do for the people, especially in this difficult time? As some wise man once told me: people vote with their tummy, stupid! Huffman’s lost is a victory for the people of NY23. In fact, all four elections (NJ, VA, NY23, CA10) have one thing in common: local issues. People live in the real world and they want to know who can help them with their problems, not who is the most “pure” ideologically. That should be one of the lessons for those who are planning to run in 2010: what are you going to do for the people, especially in this difficult time?

As some wise man once told me: people vote with their tummy, stupid!

]]> By: Reason60 http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70815 Reason60 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:33:42 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70815 JaneG-" a message of limited central government and fiscal sanity" How I wish it were true! But the main message of the Tea Party- pro-war, anti-tax; is madness personified, because it leads to where we are now- stupendous military spending, increasing power by the central government (via the Patriot Act) and no revenue to pay for any of it. Deficit hawks and defense hawks are irevocably at war; war always, always enlarges government and increases spending; one cannot be simultaneously pro-war and against a large government. JaneG-” a message of limited central government and fiscal sanity”
How I wish it were true!
But the main message of the Tea Party- pro-war, anti-tax; is madness personified, because it leads to where we are now- stupendous military spending, increasing power by the central government (via the Patriot Act) and no revenue to pay for any of it.

Deficit hawks and defense hawks are irevocably at war; war always, always enlarges government and increases spending; one cannot be simultaneously pro-war and against a large government.

]]> By: Reason60 http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70814 Reason60 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:29:29 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70814 " Conservatives are not revolutionaries, they almost always work within the system." An excellent point! I made a similar thought over at Rick Moran's blog, wherein I wrote: My complaint[with the Tea Party] is that “ideological purity” is and should be, the province of conformists, “engineers of the human soul” (note I did not say Stalinists!) and authoritarians; moderation and compromise should be the property of conservative thought. Conservatism is NOT about worshipping the cult of the free market,treating it as a religion, not to be questioned or sullied by compromise; All the greatest onservative minds- Burke, Hayek, Buckley- and the greatest conservative leaders- Eisenhower, Goldwater, Reagan to name a few- accepted that some efforts in society are properly done as government run enterprises; that any society would reach a compromised balance between individual freedom and social responsibility. Emphasising a purity of thought, a desire to impose a single mode of acceptable thought upon a diverse nation of 300 million is frightening even in its most idealistic concept; ironically, dreaming of a purely conservative party where people in NY-23 have exactly the same viewpoint as CA-10 is the epitome of Ayn Rand’s “common yoke for a common neck”. Compromise, reasonable accomodation of opposition, and balancing of powers is the conservatism that I can support. The language of Party purges, “enemies who must be vanquished” is insulting to the concept of freedom and liberty. ” Conservatives are not revolutionaries, they almost always work within the system.”

An excellent point! I made a similar thought over at Rick Moran’s blog, wherein I wrote:

My complaint[with the Tea Party] is that “ideological purity” is and should be, the province of conformists, “engineers of the human soul” (note I did not say Stalinists!) and authoritarians; moderation and compromise should be the property of conservative thought.

Conservatism is NOT about worshipping the cult of the free market,treating it as a religion, not to be questioned or sullied by compromise; All the greatest onservative minds- Burke, Hayek, Buckley- and the greatest conservative leaders- Eisenhower, Goldwater, Reagan to name a few- accepted that some efforts in society are properly done as government run enterprises; that any society would reach a compromised balance between individual freedom and social responsibility.

Emphasising a purity of thought, a desire to impose a single mode of acceptable thought upon a diverse nation of 300 million is frightening even in its most idealistic concept; ironically, dreaming of a purely conservative party where people in NY-23 have exactly the same viewpoint as CA-10 is the epitome of Ayn Rand’s “common yoke for a common neck”.

Compromise, reasonable accomodation of opposition, and balancing of powers is the conservatism that I can support. The language of Party purges, “enemies who must be vanquished” is insulting to the concept of freedom and liberty.

]]> By: JaneG http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70812 JaneG Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:13:04 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70812 I see it differently, Andrew. It occurs to me that we're coalescing at last around a platform of limited central government and fiscal sanity. It's a winning message. And America will be better for it. I see it differently, Andrew.
It occurs to me that we’re coalescing at last around a platform of limited central government and fiscal sanity.
It’s a winning message.
And America will be better for it.

]]> By: prm79 http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70809 prm79 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:57:27 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70809 Conservatives know who they are. They don't need a liberal hack to define them. In order to win NY 23, Conservatives need to win moderates. When Conservatives win NY 23, it will render you irrelavent. I look forward to you announcing a change of party on your next MSNBC appearance. Conservatives know who they are. They don’t need a liberal hack to define them.

In order to win NY 23, Conservatives need to win moderates. When Conservatives win NY 23, it will render you irrelavent. I look forward to you announcing a change of party on your next MSNBC appearance.

]]> By: joemarier http://www.frumforum.com/the-stakes-in-ny-23/comment-page-1#comment-70808 joemarier Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:52:56 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15090#comment-70808 It's unfair to say Hoffman "parachuted in" to the district. He lived in the district as a kid, he moved to another area within the district, he got gerrymandered out of the district. Otherwise, some valid points. It’s unfair to say Hoffman “parachuted in” to the district. He lived in the district as a kid, he moved to another area within the district, he got gerrymandered out of the district. Otherwise, some valid points.

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