Now the focus of the exchanges centered on Noonan’s views regarding Palin, but if one were to read the column start to finish…

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124716984620819351.html

…you’ll come upon the following:

QUOTING NOONAN — “Here are a few examples of what we may face in the next 10 years: a profound and prolonged American crash, with the admission of bankruptcy and the spread of deep social unrest; one or more American cities getting hit with weapons of mass destruction from an unknown source; faint glimmers of actual secessionist movements as Americans for various reasons and in various areas decide the burdens and assumptions of the federal government are no longer attractive or legitimate.”

Hmm… sounds kinda… er… familiar… huh? (*CHUCKLE*)

Seems like it’s not just guys named BILL who hold a less than sanguine vision of America’s future.

Just saying…

(*SHRUG*)

BILL

With that said, its difficult to figure out what DeMint meant by his comparison with Wiemar Germany? If he meant that Obama and the Left are to Hitler and the National Socialists, then its kinda foolish? The only similarity that I can see is that Obama and Hitler were both charismatic racialists with strong oratory skills. A racialist is someone who considers race paramount in their worldview. This is similar to a Marxist with class, and/or a feminist with gender. A racialist is not a “racist.” The word racist/racism has no meaning and should only be considered a weapon in which to smear someone. If anyone wants to understand Obama’s racialism I would recommend reading “Dreams of My Father” by Obama.

A better comparison with Wiemar Germany would be with the current political atmosphere. Both periods were experiencing bad economic times and decadence socially. More important however was/is the growing agitation by the Left during both periods. The Nazis would have never risen had the Left not been behaving like it was. The State of Bavaria literally was taken over by a band of Leftists. Germans also understood what was happening in the Ukraine and Poland, and what occurred in the USSR. The SA or “Brownshirt” came into existence in an attempt to control left-wing violence in the streets and especially at political events.

Today we’re seeing similar activities by the Left. Its to a point where the Black Panther party is even allowed to intimidate white voters at polling places. The “Conservative” Bourgeoisie parties in Wiemar were pretty much impotent in dealing with the situation and there seems to be many parallels with the GOP. This will open opportunities for more radical Right wing ideas, people, and solutions to fill the void. They will be lead by a dedicated cadre of people who believe in what their doing more so than the people who attend non-partisan cocktail parties in the Beltway.

………..Barking as usual invents his facts……Eisenhower did not threaten through “back channels” to nuke North Korea or China……if this was so why is North Korea sitting about 25 miles north of the capital of SK with allegedy around 10,000 artilllery pieces targetted on Seoul…..the Korean war was essentially a draw and in fact Eisenhower was desperate to get a settlement that ended hostilities and which was really mediated by the Soviet Union.

“…issues such as immigration or even gay marriage. ”

Andy. With respect… does reality ever intrude into your political analysis…???

On immigration the vast, vast, vast majority of the American People want the borders secure and oppose amnesty. As you may recall, BUSH (as president!), McCain, Pelosi, Reid, large chunks of the RINO establishment, a strong majority of the Democratic political establishment, the MSM, the Academy… they were ALL in support of Bush’s proposed immigration “reform.” Do you by any chance recall WHY in the end Congress couldn’t muster the votes to pass it? I’ll give you a hint: Millions and millions of Americans called, wrote, emailed, and even visited their representatives in person to say in unequivical terms… “STOP! WE DON’T WANT THIS “REFORM.”

Like it or loath it… THAT’S what happened. I was there. So were you. Let’s at least wait a couple of decades before trying to rewrite history.

As to gay marriage…

(*SIGH*) (*HEADACHE*)

Again… sorry to let facts and reality intrude upon dogma, but when these sorts of policies get a public hearing in the BALLOT box…

(*SHRUG*)

I’m in favor of gay marriage. The American People aren’t. That’s just the reality.

“As someone who voted for Nixon twice…”

Then you no doubt remember wage and price controls, the oil crisis, the beginnings of stagflation, etc.

Don’t get me wrong. I would have voted for Nixon over Humphrey and Nixon over McGovern too… but let’s not pretend Richard Nixon was a “conservative” in the Reagan mold. (And we didn’t even address foreign policy.)

Ike? Well… do you recall what HIS response to the “immigrant problem” was…??? Hmm…???

Do you happen to recall what threat he made against the North Koreans (and Chinese) in order to get the permanent ceasefire of the Korean War…??? Hmm…??? (Through back channels he threatened to NUKE ‘em! To NUKE ‘em! Now how’s that rank in your lexicon of “extremist talk…???”

(*SNORT*)

May God have mercy upon this poor troubled nation of ours. Let’s hope Bismarck’s dictate that, “There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America,” remains in force.

BILL

……..I voted for Nixon first time, I was out of the country the second time. What a lot of posters here don’t seem to have taken on board is the extent to which the people like Nixon that were heading the GOP at the time didn’t look that different in the main from their Democatic counterparts. Some of them like Eisenhower could have been Democrat. This started to change somewhat in the Reagan era but not much. Bush senior was right of center but really governed from the center putting the country above party most typically over breaking his taxes pledge. The tone and dynamics all really started to change in the early 90’s and I don’t think it’s coincidental that this coincided with coming together of three elements. The final playing out of the southern strategy which put all the factions in the right boxes, the use of polarization as a motivator and vote getter, and the rise of talk radio. Of course it’s the usual amalgam of personalities, events and policies so it’s sometimes hard to separate the important from the less so. I read somewhere the other day that conservatism is a political philosophy but also a cultural movement that’s being mined by commercial interests for profit . A perfect summary.

Extremist talk is not going to re develop the GOP; we’ve all seen what it does in issues such as immigration or even gay marriage. Prostituting the GOP to interest groups (Just like the Dems) is what got them to the situation they’re in now.

The GOP needs to divorce itself from the “whack job talk”, start coming up with solutions to the problems we have now (other than tax cuts and less government) and of course stop being the “party of NO”.

I’ve just joined up and find the discussions here to my liking (ie intelligent) but we all have to remember Ben Franklin’s words: ” If we’re all thinking alike then no one is thinking”

Obama’s policy choices continue policy choices Bush made before leaving office, most importantly the bailout of the financial industry. To paint him as some sort of black devil who is out to bring down the country, as Frum correctly points out, is a recipe for further GOP decline and misery.

Maybe it would be an idea for GOP’ers not to be so darn staunch all the time.

…….In a word….Yes…..I used to be a sceptic on Obama but I’ve become something of a fan……In a curious sort of way the Palin controversy highlights the extent to which she and Obama represent the ethos of their respective parties at the moment. Intellectually, temperamentally, philosophically, spiritually she’s where the GOP is at present , whereas he encapsulates the ethos of the Democrats. And it’s not a comparison from which the GOP emerges well. Anyone can see Obama sitting quite comfortably in the executive suites of America’s largest corporations or the partner’s room at the top law firms. Believe me I’ve either worked for or had some dealing with some big hitters and he’d be right at home. Where do you see Palin in this context. Behind the receptionist’s desk, painting her nails and catching up on the latest news from People magazine. That’s the unfortunate reality and until we return to having people like Bush 41 as the face of the party that’s going to remain the picture in the majority’s mind.

How is this in any sense a true Republican message? The Republican message for eight years was quite clear with respect to consolidating the most awesome powers in the executive branch – including the ability to capture, detain and torture American citizens at will. It would be fairly absurd to hear a Republican decry the excesses of TARP as eclipsing any of the egregious constitutional trespasses of the former administration.