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	<title>Comments on: The Plan</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: &#8220;The Worse the Better&#8221; (NewsReal Blog) &#8211; by David Horowitz &#124; FrontPage Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-68236</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;The Worse the Better&#8221; (NewsReal Blog) &#8211; by David Horowitz &#124; FrontPage Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 06:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-68236</guid>
		<description>[...] Here’s what David wrote along with my reply: “The Plan [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here’s what David wrote along with my reply: “The Plan [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66722</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 02:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66722</guid>
		<description>profnickd wrote:    &quot;The “anger” of the Left in the late 1960s and early 1970s took the form of: the Black Panthers, the SLA, Weather Underground, anti-Vietnam War rioters, and various other anti-American violent and criminal scum .  .  . The “anger” of conservatives today is entirely peaceful and largely middle-class .  .  .&quot;

Since you obviously are not capable of reading, please ask your caretaker to explain the links below to you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html  (James von Brunn)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html  (Scott Roeder)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/20/national/20oklahoma.html  (Timothy McVeigh)

The last one killed more people than all the &quot;Leftist&quot; terrorist of the 60s and 70s combined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>profnickd wrote:    &#8220;The “anger” of the Left in the late 1960s and early 1970s took the form of: the Black Panthers, the SLA, Weather Underground, anti-Vietnam War rioters, and various other anti-American violent and criminal scum .  .  . The “anger” of conservatives today is entirely peaceful and largely middle-class .  .  .&#8221;</p>
<p>Since you obviously are not capable of reading, please ask your caretaker to explain the links below to you.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html</a>  (James von Brunn)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11shoot.html</a>  (Scott Roeder)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/20/national/20oklahoma.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/20/national/20oklahoma.html</a>  (Timothy McVeigh)</p>
<p>The last one killed more people than all the &#8220;Leftist&#8221; terrorist of the 60s and 70s combined.</p>
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		<title>By: Coda: Frum v. Horowitz &#171; NewsReal Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66643</link>
		<dc:creator>Coda: Frum v. Horowitz &#171; NewsReal Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66643</guid>
		<description>[...] Here’s what David wrote along with my reply: “The Plan [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here’s what David wrote along with my reply: “The Plan [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ProfNickD</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66543</link>
		<dc:creator>ProfNickD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66543</guid>
		<description>The &quot;anger&quot; of the Left in the late 1960s and early 1970s took the form of: the Black Panthers, the SLA, Weather Underground, anti-Vietnam War rioters, and various other anti-American violent and criminal scum.

The &quot;anger&quot; of conservatives today is entirely peaceful and largely middle-class, and seeks to reverse the Leftward drift of the country being engineered by the very same 1960s-1970s Leftist radicals who have since come to hold political power.

How is the comparison remotely comparable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;anger&#8221; of the Left in the late 1960s and early 1970s took the form of: the Black Panthers, the SLA, Weather Underground, anti-Vietnam War rioters, and various other anti-American violent and criminal scum.</p>
<p>The &#8220;anger&#8221; of conservatives today is entirely peaceful and largely middle-class, and seeks to reverse the Leftward drift of the country being engineered by the very same 1960s-1970s Leftist radicals who have since come to hold political power.</p>
<p>How is the comparison remotely comparable?</p>
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		<title>By: Cforchange</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66526</link>
		<dc:creator>Cforchange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66526</guid>
		<description>Sinz - I don&#039;t mean seniors. I mean mid aged.  
While we pervceive we are young- we are not young influencers.  The mass of influencers have mostly registered Dem and now they are influencing the next generation.  That&#039;s the point I&#039;m trying to make.  The tea baggers won&#039;t be the ones marching into this turf.  There is a tremendous gulf between mid aged and young Republican&#039;s in both age, viewpoint and the number of voters.  

I saw the pics of the DC rally and it struck me as primarily &quot;mature&quot;  but as Balc notes an inchoherent message - timing of the rallies precludes them from being an issue of taxation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz &#8211; I don&#8217;t mean seniors. I mean mid aged.<br />
While we pervceive we are young- we are not young influencers.  The mass of influencers have mostly registered Dem and now they are influencing the next generation.  That&#8217;s the point I&#8217;m trying to make.  The tea baggers won&#8217;t be the ones marching into this turf.  There is a tremendous gulf between mid aged and young Republican&#8217;s in both age, viewpoint and the number of voters.  </p>
<p>I saw the pics of the DC rally and it struck me as primarily &#8220;mature&#8221;  but as Balc notes an inchoherent message &#8211; timing of the rallies precludes them from being an issue of taxation.</p>
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		<title>By: Reason60</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66525</link>
		<dc:creator>Reason60</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66525</guid>
		<description>I think it is noteworthy that the biggest argument against movement conservatism is not a championing of socialism, but the charge of hypocrisy.
Specifically, the charge that &quot;fiscal conservatives&quot; embraced massive deficit spending on pork; that &quot;small government conservatives&quot; embraced a massive enlargement of the police powers of the state via the Patriot Act; that &quot;traditional morality conservatives&quot; were entangled over and over again in lurid sex scandals.

I find this interesting, since the overall conservative principles of limited government, fiscal prudence, and honest morality are not being attacked; rather, the conservative movement is charged with abadoning its own beliefs in exchange for political expediency.

I read these passages:
&quot;Furthermore, this movement should be about more than just getting Republicans or Conservatives elected to office. It needs (like the Left did) to focus on Institution Infiltration and Coercion….this goes for any institution….corporate, environmentalist groups, government. After acquiring employment within the institution, any power acquired should be used to promote political ideology and fellow travellers.&quot; 

and it makes me weary- this is the stuff of college sophomores wanting to play Che Guevara/ V.I. Lenin. It is all about gaining power, destroying enemies, and nothing about winning arguments or attracting converts to a belief. Hell, it isn&#039;t about beliefs at all- it is all fury and rage without an underlying belief.
Sarah Palin is the product of this movement- no ideas or principles, but pure identity politics and class hatred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is noteworthy that the biggest argument against movement conservatism is not a championing of socialism, but the charge of hypocrisy.<br />
Specifically, the charge that &#8220;fiscal conservatives&#8221; embraced massive deficit spending on pork; that &#8220;small government conservatives&#8221; embraced a massive enlargement of the police powers of the state via the Patriot Act; that &#8220;traditional morality conservatives&#8221; were entangled over and over again in lurid sex scandals.</p>
<p>I find this interesting, since the overall conservative principles of limited government, fiscal prudence, and honest morality are not being attacked; rather, the conservative movement is charged with abadoning its own beliefs in exchange for political expediency.</p>
<p>I read these passages:<br />
&#8220;Furthermore, this movement should be about more than just getting Republicans or Conservatives elected to office. It needs (like the Left did) to focus on Institution Infiltration and Coercion….this goes for any institution….corporate, environmentalist groups, government. After acquiring employment within the institution, any power acquired should be used to promote political ideology and fellow travellers.&#8221; </p>
<p>and it makes me weary- this is the stuff of college sophomores wanting to play Che Guevara/ V.I. Lenin. It is all about gaining power, destroying enemies, and nothing about winning arguments or attracting converts to a belief. Hell, it isn&#8217;t about beliefs at all- it is all fury and rage without an underlying belief.<br />
Sarah Palin is the product of this movement- no ideas or principles, but pure identity politics and class hatred.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66508</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66508</guid>
		<description>sinz - you are right.

The motivation for much of the anti-war activists in the 1960&#039;s wasn&#039;t really pacifism ... but not wanting to have their ass shipped over to Vietnam.

Similarly, the motivation for a lot of teaparty marchers isn&#039;t really an ideology of pushing back against big government ... but pure anti-taxism (thus the name &quot;teabag&quot;, and their initial rallies coinciding with April 15th last spring).  If it was really a coherent ideology, we&#039;d have seen the same people marching years ago as Bush expanded government.

But anti-taxism only goes so far ... particularly since most of the rally-goers aren&#039;t going to see significant if any tax increases.  So they need the &quot;against&quot; talking points to keep them cohesive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz &#8211; you are right.</p>
<p>The motivation for much of the anti-war activists in the 1960&#8217;s wasn&#8217;t really pacifism &#8230; but not wanting to have their ass shipped over to Vietnam.</p>
<p>Similarly, the motivation for a lot of teaparty marchers isn&#8217;t really an ideology of pushing back against big government &#8230; but pure anti-taxism (thus the name &#8220;teabag&#8221;, and their initial rallies coinciding with April 15th last spring).  If it was really a coherent ideology, we&#8217;d have seen the same people marching years ago as Bush expanded government.</p>
<p>But anti-taxism only goes so far &#8230; particularly since most of the rally-goers aren&#8217;t going to see significant if any tax increases.  So they need the &#8220;against&#8221; talking points to keep them cohesive.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66504</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66504</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely wrong sinz.  

The 60s protesters werent just anti Vietnam War, they were pro Socialist/Communist...however that had to be downplayed for obvious reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely wrong sinz.  </p>
<p>The 60s protesters werent just anti Vietnam War, they were pro Socialist/Communist&#8230;however that had to be downplayed for obvious reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66499</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66499</guid>
		<description>CforChange:  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the problem at all.  You can check out the videos of the TEA Party protests on YouTube. They&#039;re not all seniors.  There are plenty of younger folks as well.

But what the TEA party protesters share with the youthful protesters of the 1960s is raw anger and negativity.  Those antiwar protesters wanted America to bug out of Vietnam.  What would happen afterward in the world, they just didn&#039;t care.  The &quot;boat people&quot; disaster, they&#039;re partly responsible for.

Likewise, these TEA Party protesters are animated more by what they&#039;re against (Obama&#039;s entire domestic agenda) than what they&#039;re in favor of.  

And as with the 1960s protesters, just cutting and running from the issue, whether it&#039;s Vietnam or health care, won&#039;t work.  The issue will still be there, whether our government faces up to it or not.

You can read Michelle Malkin&#039;s blog day after day, and never find one positive proposal for the nation.  It&#039;s all AGAINST--against ACORN, against immigrants, against Obama, against liberals.

So the appeal of these protesters will always be limited, until they can explain to the rest of the nation what their positive vision of the nation is.

&quot;Happy Days Are Here Again&quot; has always worked much better than &quot;Stop the POTUS Before He Destroys the Nation.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CforChange:  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the problem at all.  You can check out the videos of the TEA Party protests on YouTube. They&#8217;re not all seniors.  There are plenty of younger folks as well.</p>
<p>But what the TEA party protesters share with the youthful protesters of the 1960s is raw anger and negativity.  Those antiwar protesters wanted America to bug out of Vietnam.  What would happen afterward in the world, they just didn&#8217;t care.  The &#8220;boat people&#8221; disaster, they&#8217;re partly responsible for.</p>
<p>Likewise, these TEA Party protesters are animated more by what they&#8217;re against (Obama&#8217;s entire domestic agenda) than what they&#8217;re in favor of.  </p>
<p>And as with the 1960s protesters, just cutting and running from the issue, whether it&#8217;s Vietnam or health care, won&#8217;t work.  The issue will still be there, whether our government faces up to it or not.</p>
<p>You can read Michelle Malkin&#8217;s blog day after day, and never find one positive proposal for the nation.  It&#8217;s all AGAINST&#8211;against ACORN, against immigrants, against Obama, against liberals.</p>
<p>So the appeal of these protesters will always be limited, until they can explain to the rest of the nation what their positive vision of the nation is.</p>
<p>&#8220;Happy Days Are Here Again&#8221; has always worked much better than &#8220;Stop the POTUS Before He Destroys the Nation.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-plan/comment-page-1#comment-66492</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13130#comment-66492</guid>
		<description>Youth are attracted to activist politics.   They like marching int he streets.  Appealing to their sense of non dotiness is good.  Furthermore the 9/12 marches while angry at government were genial and the sense of togetherness and comraderie, good vibes was very high.   So you are lashing out all over the place in wrong directions, people (you too Frum).

Furthermore, the base is motivated and Democrats through the sheer act of ruling will drive away coalition members that voted for them, in recent elections as they feel betrayed, ingnored, or otherwise dissillusioned in Hopey Changiness.

Sarah Palin is a nice young fresh face, we also need to get the College Republicans active and out there.

Duplicating the New Lefts successful strategies and tactics is a fantastic idea.  One reason it is so successful is that New Left Radicals have places to go with their radical political ideas that pays a good wage, to pursue those ideas.  They have developed a net of support, awards ceremonies, carreer opportunities which support their politics and political goals. 

Furthermore, this movement should be about more than just getting Republicans or Conservatives elected to office.  It needs (like the Left did) to focus on Institution Infiltration and Coercion....this goes for any institution....corporate, environmentalist groups, government.  After acquiring employment within the institution, any power acquired should be used to promote political ideology and fellow travellers.  This is long established by teh Left as a tactic.  You get ahead by mouthing Politically Correct doctrine, because they have taken over the hen house and clubbed, sued, threatened, insitutions into moving away from unprofitable conflict with these ideologues.

We need to be thinking deeper than just winning elections.

Finally, Conservatives/Republicans caught on that they couldnt just keep appointing middle of the road judges....because the Left had targeted judicial appointments in their strategy to promote their agenda, of subversion of the Constitution, law, and legislatures....and promotion of a Leftwing Agenda.

Its time to get serious with these folks.  They have tenure at Universities (our Think Tanks were a response to that and other Leftwing organization which was a good start), and sit around in Fill in the Blank Studies Departments, English, Humanities, and Anthropology, Sociology, and Psychology departments thinking up ways of undermining and waging war against, infiltrating Western Civilization.

Lost my train of thought, distracted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Youth are attracted to activist politics.   They like marching int he streets.  Appealing to their sense of non dotiness is good.  Furthermore the 9/12 marches while angry at government were genial and the sense of togetherness and comraderie, good vibes was very high.   So you are lashing out all over the place in wrong directions, people (you too Frum).</p>
<p>Furthermore, the base is motivated and Democrats through the sheer act of ruling will drive away coalition members that voted for them, in recent elections as they feel betrayed, ingnored, or otherwise dissillusioned in Hopey Changiness.</p>
<p>Sarah Palin is a nice young fresh face, we also need to get the College Republicans active and out there.</p>
<p>Duplicating the New Lefts successful strategies and tactics is a fantastic idea.  One reason it is so successful is that New Left Radicals have places to go with their radical political ideas that pays a good wage, to pursue those ideas.  They have developed a net of support, awards ceremonies, carreer opportunities which support their politics and political goals. </p>
<p>Furthermore, this movement should be about more than just getting Republicans or Conservatives elected to office.  It needs (like the Left did) to focus on Institution Infiltration and Coercion&#8230;.this goes for any institution&#8230;.corporate, environmentalist groups, government.  After acquiring employment within the institution, any power acquired should be used to promote political ideology and fellow travellers.  This is long established by teh Left as a tactic.  You get ahead by mouthing Politically Correct doctrine, because they have taken over the hen house and clubbed, sued, threatened, insitutions into moving away from unprofitable conflict with these ideologues.</p>
<p>We need to be thinking deeper than just winning elections.</p>
<p>Finally, Conservatives/Republicans caught on that they couldnt just keep appointing middle of the road judges&#8230;.because the Left had targeted judicial appointments in their strategy to promote their agenda, of subversion of the Constitution, law, and legislatures&#8230;.and promotion of a Leftwing Agenda.</p>
<p>Its time to get serious with these folks.  They have tenure at Universities (our Think Tanks were a response to that and other Leftwing organization which was a good start), and sit around in Fill in the Blank Studies Departments, English, Humanities, and Anthropology, Sociology, and Psychology departments thinking up ways of undermining and waging war against, infiltrating Western Civilization.</p>
<p>Lost my train of thought, distracted.</p>
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