The Party That Lost Its Mind

90 responses so far

• 1 InTheMiddle12 // Feb 15, 2009 at 8:01 am

  I wondered, as the week unfolded, if the GOP purposely was throwing away any chance of gains in the mid-term election with the very odd way they responded this last week. Saturday Night Live’s opening skit last night said it all. Boehner should be ashamed for throwing the bill on the floor. What a ridiculous move from a bankrupt leader. If this plan remotely helps America come through the DNC will use that image in every advertisement in every state as a reminder how absent the GOP was from the real debate this week.

• 2 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 8:22 am

  Mr. Frum, the GOP did offer an alternative which included suspending the payroll tax. Of course, the DC-NY media didn’t spend a lot of time discussing the alternatives proposed by the GOP. They are invested in Obama succeding after working so hard to get him elected. As far as capital gains taxes, there are trillions sitting on the sidelines, But eleminating it, we could entice investments of private capital. You seem too preoccupied with polls. Of course, Obama’s numbers are high. He just got elected and people are giving him the benefit of the doubt. If in six months the economy does not show any improvement, those numbers will go south. I have been a regular at this site since its first week. You have the Sally Field approach to politics. “I want you to like me, really like me”. Sorry but great leaders stand for what they think is right for their country. You base your govening philosophy (that is if you have one) on polls. You seem pretty happy just nibbling at the margins. In case you have forgotten, Bob Michael adopted your strategy and kept the GOP in the minority. Talk about replaying the 80s!

• 3 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 8:25 am

  In the Middle. Sure, let’s base our policies on SNL skits. That’s how we are going to get out of this mess. NOT! I will tell you what will make a great political commercials. Schumer saying that the American people don’t care how much we spend on “little, porky” amendements. Obey saying “So what?” if government wastes money.

• 4 cronus // Feb 15, 2009 at 8:45 am

  I surmise that the point of this piece is that nuance actually matters in messaging. The GOP had several substantive points to make against the stimulus. And there were definitely elements of the Dem package to criticize and even lampoon. But the American public is looking to Washington in a deadly serious way. Given that reality, I recommend we learn from this and try to lead with substance the next round and save the condenscenion for internal meetings.

• 5 gospelance // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:22 am

  I’m not concerned. All this stuff is going to backfire, and the electorate will be more than ready to swing back to the right. If this thing fails, it’ll be all “O”-ver. I suspect we’ll also see Congress radically turned over in 2010 as a result of the failure of this bill and Leftist add-ons.

• 6 realconservativ // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:30 am

  The Dems are ripe for picking. Nancy Pelosi is everyone’s idea of the mother-in-law from hell. But, we still have two major problems to evercome: 1) the timidness of the GOP (which should have been attacking Pelosi and Reid for the past two years) and 2) MSM which is determined to defend and promote Obama. The media will do everything in its power to convince the public that Obama and the Dems haven’t failed According to Real Clear Politics, Obama’s poll numbers are actually up from last week.

• 7 Cavosie // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:33 am

  Great post. If Republicans can stop being silly, maybe they can become a viable party again. Substance would be very welcome instead of sloganeering (as in realconservativ’s comments).

• 8 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:44 am

  The GOP offered substantive alternatives to Obama’s plan. So I really don’t know what people here are talking about. The MSM is not going to publicize the GOP’s plan. They are in the tank for Obama and instead of beating up on the GOP for being “silly”, time will be better spent on figuring out how to overcome the MSM. And RealCon, is right. It is not sloganeering. The GOP should have been attacking Pelosi and Reid. Congress was and still is very unpopular. Yet the GOP has not benefited because the majority of Americans believed that the GOP still controlled Congress. And we are in the process of becoming a viable party again but standing for an alternative to the Obama agenda.

• 9 cronus // Feb 15, 2009 at 10:51 am

  Wow, the GOP might be accused of several things in this debate but “timidity” is not one of them. I don’t think I saw a single cable news program where the Republican didn’t open up both barrels on Obama/Reid/Pelosi et al. I think we need to distinguish between what elected Republican officials say and what the conservative echo chamber talk radio/blogs/etc decides to focus on. Strategy should be more 1994 than 1998. GOP never dampened down on the criticism of Clinton but in 1994 that criticism was built around serious proposals for government reform. In 1998 that criticism continued in a substance free vacuum.

• 10 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 10:53 am

  cronus. Why do you keep insisting that the GOP had no proposals on the table? They did. Are you aware of their proposals?

• 11 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 11:15 am

  One lesson to take away from the McCain campaign, is that ranting about earmarks goes nowhere with most voters. Ranting about marsh mice makes terrific stuff for right-wing talk radio, but not for voters who are soured on the GOP already. The issue for the stimulus package wasn’t $30 million for some pet project in Pelosi’s turf. The issues were the 800 BILLION DOLLARS added to our national debt, and the fact that we conservatives believe that money may move America toward a left-wing society, but won’t do anything to stimulate the economy in the near future. We really have to start debating ideas before the American people, as we did once before in the 1970s.

• 12 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 11:17 am

  gospelance: 2010 is too early. In 1980, Reagan took office with a radical economic program. By 1982, unemployment on Reagan’s watch had gotten much HIGHER. But the voters understood that fixing the economy would take time and patience. Even though unemployment remained stubornly high throughout Reagan’s first term, he was re-elected to a second term. I really don’t think the voters are going to start grumbling, only one year after the stimulus package goes into effect. I think they will be patient. So I expect modest gains for the GOP, if any, in 2010. But by 2012, all bets are off.

• 13 dendup // Feb 15, 2009 at 11:26 am

  David Frum: This post is I think a step forward. The challenges facing us now are huge and we need at least 2 functioning political parties. No one viewpoint has a monopoly on the truth. It is worthwhile for all of us to take a deep breath and think about that idea for a moment.

• 14 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 12:11 pm

  “No one viewpoint has a monopoly on the truth.” Dendup, you have hit the nail on the head – Republicans sincerely embracing this point of view and acting on it would truly change their world almost overnight. Of course, as Mr. Frum points out, the “acting on it” would involve trading in most Congressional Republicans for newer models, beginning with the leadership, but the benefits to the country would vastly outweigh the relatively small inconveniences to the leaders themselves. Hell, Lindsey Graham could even go back on his diet!

• 15 jjv // Feb 15, 2009 at 12:26 pm

  I think the Mouse story is designed to demonstrate to the public how little the stimulous bill has to do with stimulous. Using concrete examples in an argument is usually a pretty good tactic. Obviously, the larger argument should be the ones you highlight but the mouse, like $600 toilet seats, is something people can remember and understand.

• 16 JJWFromME // Feb 15, 2009 at 12:32 pm

  Reminds me of the tire gauge flap from the election:
  http://ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008083204/yes-conservatives-inflated-tires-beats-coastal-drilling
  I’m sure the truth value of these stories are deliberately not the point. The point is to rile up the conservative base and p*ss off liberals -with the very fact that the truth is being treated as a relative value (after all, what’s more fun than p*ssing off liberals?). But after a while all the absurdities start to pile up and make the average person start to wonder …

• 17 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 12:56 pm

  jjv, I think you missed the point. This is the point: “We in fact have a constructive solution to offer, one that would deliver more jobs faster: the payroll tax holiday, an idea endorsed by almost every reputable right-of-center economist. But thats not the solution being offered by Republicans in Congress.” It is the fecklessness of the Republican Congressional leadership that is the point, I think. That, according to Mr. Frum, is a major anchor dragging down the Republican ship, and I think he is right.

• 18 cronus // Feb 15, 2009 at 12:58 pm

  Chekote where did I say they had no proposals? I said they chose a messaging strategy that focused almost exclusively on taking pot shots at the Democratic package instead of emphasizing the substance of their counter-proposal. I don’t know what Members you were watching, but the ones I saw spent almost their entire segments on those dreaded MSM cable programs lamenting the pork and almost zero time talking about what they were offering.

• 19 fact based // Feb 15, 2009 at 2:14 pm

  “Were facing more regulation of everything from high finance …”

  there’s an idea…run against that one

  take a look here and get out of your rush/glenn/sean bubble

  http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/republican-meeting-open/1018742/

• 20 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 2:30 pm

  Larryo: I would be happy to ditch almost any Republican in the House, if you guys would ditch Barbara Lee.

• 21 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 2:42 pm

  larryo: I wish it were that simple. It’s also that the House Republicans aren’t really sold on a payroll-tax-cutting approach. Many are free-market purists who just believe in “unleashing the private sector.” They take their cue from guys like Rush Limbaugh, and Larry Kudlow who keeps waving around the “supply-side” mantra, even though we don’t have a shortage of supply of anything I can think of right now. And what these fellows want is to cut the corporate tax rate and cut the capital gains tax. Whereas other Republicans want a dramatic cut in the payroll tax, which would help workers first, not corporations first. This reflects the split in the modern conservative movement, between the Wall Street types like Kudlow, and the Main Street types like yours truly.

• 22 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:07 pm

  sinz. The more I read your posts and the most it is apparent that you don’t listen to Rush on a regular basis.

• 23 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:14 pm

  One for one won’t do it, sinz – you need to ditch almost all of them. But no – instead, what you have is Eric Cantor, rising to the top like pond scum. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/politics/15cantor.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

• 24 dendup // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:19 pm

  sinz54: Which is one reason I think that the GOP lately has tended to focus on tactics rather than strategy – attackng a mouse can distract from an underlying disagreement within the GOP. While this may seem good for the Dems it probably is bad for the country since the level of discussion sinks so low.

• 25 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:19 pm

  “It’s also that the House Republicans aren’t really sold on a payroll-tax-cutting approach. Many are free-market purists who just believe in “unleashing the private sector.” They take their cue from guys like Rush Limbaugh, and Larry Kudlow who keeps waving around the “supply-side” mantra, even though we don’t have a shortage of supply of anything I can think of right now.” Indeed, you are right again, sinz – there is no denying it. It’s kind of ironic, isn’t it, that these goose steppers who were so good for the ascendency of the Republican Party and were its most ardent apologists during the Bush fiasco are hamstringing it now?

• 26 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:23 pm

  Sinz, Frum and others who want to build this New Majority, please answer this question: Why should people vote for the GOP and not the Dems?

• 27 HollywoodBill // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:25 pm

  Listen to Rush? Please. That bloviating gasbag is now losing money in the number 1 talkradio market in the country, KFI in Los Angeles. The local talk jocks refer to him as the bloviating gasbag all the time. They admit their indebtedness to him, but he is now a financial drain on the station. His day in the sun might be over. The talk jocks in Southern California were vehemently against the Moose Hunter too. And this is conservative talk radio. As for Cantor, it is my understanding that he comes from a very conservative district and would even have troubles in a statewide election. But worth keeping an eye on nevertheless.

• 28 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:33 pm

  HBill. I have attended a fundraiser for Cantor and had a chance to talk to him. He is bright, articulate and understands that the GOP needs to focus on economic issues if it wants to regain power. I also met Hensarling. Very bright. He was absolutely disgusted about how little was accomplished while the GOP was in charge of the government. He opposed TARP I. These guys are the intellectual drive behind the new GOP. Together with Steele, we are in good hands. The GOP will not regain power if we listen to Frum, Brooks and other who offer nothing more than the GOP nibbling at the margins. As far as the mouse, as JJV pointed out it is a quick and effective way to drive home the fact that this bill is full of wasteful spending.

• 29 Clarence Darrow // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:37 pm

  Fantastic article again Mr. Frum.

  I was feeling quite lonely as a moderate Republican these days.

  If you are really educated about economics you understand that “We are all Keynesians now.”
  Meanwhile in my famous economically challenged hometown of Elkhart, IN the State government hacked property taxes to rave reviews of idots statewide to replace it with more Loeffler Curve fragile sales and especially local income taxes.

  A local Democratic leader commented quite happily how a local wage tax would be on “working people only” and not retired folks.

  Ignorance is truly the root of all evil and on this one Rush is Right!

• 30 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 4:50 pm

  Clarence. Rush never said that ingnorance was at the root of all evil. He says that ignorance is the most expensive commodity we have in this country.

• 31 petty boozshwa // Feb 15, 2009 at 5:46 pm

  Why didn’t our “leaders” focus on the secret evisceration of E-verify? The unraveling of work requirements for welfare? There are over a trillion dollars worth of non-controversial public works projects that we could have proposed as a national-unity alternative rather than going down with all flags flying, obstruction-for-obstructions-sake. Just a couple of examples: the nation’s prison systems are in melt-down, we could have offered to take some of that burden off state budgets. We could have offered to take the federally mandated costs of special education off state and local balance sheets – this would avoid the money being used as seed corn for a lot of new programs, and would have made us look reasonable to swing/moderate voters, rather than cranks.

• 32 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 5:48 pm

  Larryo: Times change. That’s true for both parties. (By the late 1970s, Lyndon Johnson and John Kenneth Galbraith, both once admired, had become albatrosses around the Democratic Party’s neck.) In the case of the GOP, supply-side economics was the correct response to the stagflation of the 1970s, a stagflation that liberal economists had no answer for except *permanent* wage-and-price controls. But a medicine that can cure stagflation, can’t cure a deflationary depression. The supply-side medicine tastes good to Wall Street, so of course they want more of it. But it won’t cure what’s wrong with Uncle Sam right now. I still believe that a massive cut in the SS payroll tax is just what the doctor ordered to rouse Uncle Sam from his stupor.

• 33 sinz54 // Feb 15, 2009 at 6:02 pm

  petty boozshwa: I liked some of your ideas, like funding the special education mandate. But I did NOT like the one about funding “noncontroversial” public works projects. There are no “noncontroversial” public works projects. Start building prisons and the Dems (especially black activists) would charge that “The GOP only cares about how to incarcerate people, not how to educate people.” There’s your Dem slogan for 2010, right there. And as I have said before, I don’t believe that any public works projects are going to a) start groundbreaking this year or even next year; and b) employ enough people. We’re spending 900 billion dollars to achieve (if Obama’s optimistic forecast) is right 3 million jobs. That’s $300,000 per job for this year alone. Not to mention the fact that the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has admitted that all these public works projects are going to start crowding out private investment within a few years’ time. Yet some of these projects, once started, may take twenty years to complete. For us economic conservatives, the only sensible answer is to decouple all public works spending from the issue of economic stimulus. Dems, you really think we need a magnetic levitation train from Las Vegas to California? Fine. Pass a separate bill for that–if you can. But don’t call it “economic stimulus”–because it isn’t. (When it’s built, it may use less energy than flying to Las Vegas, but it will probably employ fewer people than the vast army of people employed by the airlines and airports.)

• 34 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 6:09 pm

  You know, sinz, a cut in SS payroll taxes will have a positive effect, stimulus-wise, only to the extent that consumers get paychecks, and have you noticed the migration of jobs out of the US recently? It’s been in all the newspapers and everything. So I think a cut in everyone’s SS tax would not have as significant a consequence as you do, but I agree that it would not have hurt to include it in the bill. Why do you suppose the 3 apostates didn’t insist on it? Oh, and there is something else I wanted to ask about that: Are you advocating that employers, also, be excused from paying their share into SS? Because if you are, I suspect that this push about SS taxes is just another snake oil routine to scuttle the social security trust fund that the conservatives hate so profoundly. I assume you noticed that George W. was not very successful at running that one by the public.

• 35 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 6:14 pm

  PS. I take back what I said about Sen. Lindsey Graham. He was on ABC today talking about nationalizing the banks.

• 36 greg_barton // Feb 15, 2009 at 6:39 pm

  Holy god, a sane voice from the right. Thanks for that. However, I’m not happy that, after signing up on this site, I’m now getting email from the RNC. I soooooo don’t want email from the RNC. It is nice for an occasional laugh, though. But it baffles me why, after signing up on a site that is so critical of the republican status quo, I would begin getting emails from those that support it.

• 37 petty boozshwa // Feb 15, 2009 at 7:43 pm

  sinz54 I agree a payroll tax holiday would be much preferable to public works spending – but we lost 53/46 in the last election. I said that we needed to roll with the punches; since a “stimulus” bill was Obama’s signature issue, and we could not stop it, the most intelligent way to deal with it was to propose an acceptable alternative that would not plant the seeds of a thousand new programs or entitlements. I don’t think we’re fighting for the support of the activists that would get P.O.’d about more prison cells, we’re fighting for the moderates that would appreciate some concern for their priorities. And a federal program to spread out life-sentence prisoners from, say, California to Arkansas, until new construction could take place could inject payroll dollars for new guards, cafeteria workers, etc. in a matter of weeks.

• 38 larryo // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:03 pm

  I haven’t received even one email from the RNC.

• 39 Chekote // Feb 15, 2009 at 9:10 pm

  I guess the New Majority is going to be build based of establishing new federal programs? This is really funny. Sorry, but I am proud of the GOP for standing up to this monstrousity of a bill. I am glad about pointing out all the wasteful spending. Thanks to the GOP we have wonderful clips of Schumer saying that the American people don’t care about porky amendments. We have Obey saying “So what?” if we waste taxpayers’ money. Looking at the polls right now is meaningless. Obama now owns this economy and if it doesn’t improve he will have no one to blame but himself.

• 40 JoetheVeep // Feb 15, 2009 at 10:24 pm

  Say, David, this is totally off-topic. Feel free to ignore. But since you and Big Hollywood came out at about the same time, I’ll just say that I like the comment features better over there, and they’ve made some neat improvements. The icon deal may or may not be your cuppa, but people already are descending into to personal feuds, so why not. Also, I think a character limit might be beneficial. Prevents people posting their ten-point plan on dairy subsidies which clearly explains why the GOP will never be a power in New England. Or some such.

  Just some thoughts during the growing phase. Keep it up.

• 41 JoetheVeep // Feb 15, 2009 at 10:36 pm

  Oh, and I have to log in every time I show up. What, the bouncer doesn’t recognize me? It’s a personal insult. So I guess these are more complaints, but they’re good complaints, indicating eagerness. Right? Right.

• 42 greg_barton // Feb 15, 2009 at 11:40 pm

  Yeah, Chekote, I’ll bet you and the rest of your buddies will be dancing in the streets if the economy fails. Every lost job is just icing on the cake, right? After all, the American people’s suffering is your political gain. Next I expect you to wish for a terrorist attack on Obama’s watch.

• 43 Graf // Feb 16, 2009 at 12:02 am

  David’s take on the stimulus is smart and pragmatic. Why haven’t the Republicans proposed an equally smart and politically attractive alternative to the stimulus plan? If Republicans see their role as merely to oppose rather than to offer better and more effective alternatives to Democratic plans, we’re in for a long couple decades of minority status. No one has mentioned this so far, by the way, but Rush Limbaugh has it exactly wrong. If Obama fails, and the economy plunges into a full-blown depression, does anyone really think that the GOP will benefit? Economic misery facilitates Democratic gains, much as economic prosperity enables Republican gains. For further information, consult the results of the 1936 elections.

• 44 JoetheVeep // Feb 16, 2009 at 12:34 am

  Besides, the comments should be in descending rather than ascending order. If your goal is to have a coherent stream of argument, I mean. So there’s that.

• 45 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:20 am

  I see that many on this site are just as lazy as the MSM. You simply are taking the talking points from the media and repeating them as facts. Here is a FACT. The GOP did offer alternatives. Here is the House GOP alternative http://republicanwhip.house.gov/Jobs/ . Here is the GOP Senate alternative http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE51263920090203 . I am so tired of Republicans who only react instead of setting the agenda. Please everyone, do your homework before you post.

• 46 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:22 am

  Greg. No, I don’t wish for Americans to lose their job but they will. I have worked hard all my life for everything I have. I have paid for my own college, cars and mortgage. I am fed up with footing the bills of irresponsible people. I am fed up with the Dems acting like the money I earned is theirs to spend.

• 47 Bulldoglover100 // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:46 am

  I agree 100% David. The GOP has lost more than it’s mind. It has allowed the children to run things while the adults????Not sure what the adults are doing short of keeping their mouths shut because they want to run for office. Jindal?????? where the heck is he???
  When we allow people people such as David “let me suck your toe” Vitter, Eric Cantor, Rush “Women want to be sexually abused” Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to run this party? We are just totally doomed to fail time and time again.
  Yes, we have better ideals and yes the steps we have taken in the last 30 days are just so far beyond the pale of intelligence that it ills but look at who we are allowing to take the lead!!! LOL these people think the “base” will save them, and us, yet the base was so weak that we LOST. Better come back to the sane base and we can start the long climb back up and let the nut jobs like Cantor and Vicker (who is morally CURUPT) and Rush the Magic Blow hard go far far away.
  Vickers is gone anyway when he comes up for relection which is why he is trying to be a big dog at the moment thinking it will save him…and some people? are willing to over look his sickness just to keep the vote. How low we have gone.

• 48 mikedbike // Feb 16, 2009 at 8:03 am

  Reality check: Republicans offered many alternatives including payroll tax holiday. Obama doesn’t care if Republicans accept his program or resist, either way, he gets exactly what he wants–he owns Congress and the media. Any benefit for Republicans comes from not going along with the king; doing the opposite renders you entirely useless to that substantial population that isn’t siding with that insane bill–if you are part of the problem, you aren’t part of the solution. This site is inundated with Democrat hacks putting on a pathetic effort to hide their politics. It’s a pointless web site for conservatives and is designed to weaken the Republican party even more. It would be nice to have a serious web site available for reasonably intelligent discussion. Frum, you’re either a sheep in wolves’ clothing or an outright fraud.

• 49 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 8:22 am

  mikedbike. You are absolutely right. I have asked Frum and others here to answer a simple questions: Why should people vote for the GOP instead of the Dems? Unless you have a coherent answer to this question, rebuilding a majority will be impossible. So far I got “crickets”.

• 50 sinz54 // Feb 16, 2009 at 9:35 am

  larryo: An SS payroll tax cut isn’t popular with the liberals who dominate the Dem Party right now. And Snowe/Collins/Specter were abandoned by the congressional GOP leadership, which was playing to the GOP base (“mikedbike” is right about that), and voting against the stimulus bill no matter what changes were made. (Which I happen to agree with; this bill stinks because of its fundamental construction.) Thus no one might support this concept right now, except maybe the Blue Dog Dems.

• 51 sinz54 // Feb 16, 2009 at 9:42 am

  chekote: Right now, there is no reason for Americans to trust the GOP again. The GOP lost a lot of the public’s trust in the last 8 years. It will take years to rebuild that trust. The GOP can keep issuing nice-sounding talking-points, but it has to show it can walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And that will take years. It won’t happen by 2010. It has to demonstrate real fiscal responsibility in Congress–even if that means voting against every spending proposal Obama makes. It also means *never* trying to insert corporate welfare or earmarks into those budgets–just say why they don’t like those budgets and then vote NO. Don’t worry, it won’t look “obstructionist” after Obama’s presidency crashes and burns, as Carter’s did.

• 52 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:15 am

  “And Snowe/Collins/Specter were abandoned by the congressional GOP leadership”. I think it was the other way around. These people are not heroes. Snowe and Collins sold their vote for more Medicaid money for Maine. Specter got billions of PA and funding of National Science Foundation. They sold their vote. They could have stuck with the leadership and improved the bill. Insist that all “non-stimulus” stuff be taken out. It would have cost us half as much. Instead, as usual, the so called moderates are beating up on people like me who believe that unless the GOP regains its bona fides on fiscal discipline, they will continue to be a minority party.

• 53 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:17 am

  “The GOP can keep issuing nice-sounding talking-points, but it has to show it can walk the walk, not just talk the talk.” That’s exactly what they did except for the three stooges you seem to admire so such.

• 54 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:19 am

  BTW, here is a website that actually “gets” what the GOP needs to do to regain a majority. http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/16/the-real-betrayal-of-specter-collins-and-snowe/ . Money quote: “First, the Republicans need to re-establish credibility as the party of fiscal responsibility, and supporting Porkulus is antithetical to that effort. No matter how big a tent the Republicans need to pitch, they still need to stand for core values and among them should be fiscal responsibility and smaller government for greater individual liberty. “

• 55 sinz54 // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:21 am

  mikedbike: New Majority was created to move the GOP in a more forward-looking direction. If you think that the GOP has all the answers to America’s problems already, that the GOP platforms of 2004 and 2008 were 100% perfect, then you’re right, you don’t need to be here. You might choose a blog like RedState instead. And yes, there is a myth circulating among conservatives that *they* have no responsibility for the GOP’s shellacking in 2006 and 2008; it was all due to McCain, alleged RINOs, the media, whatever. I don’t buy it. I think the GOP is at the same crossroads that the Democratic Party was back in the 1970s: The GOP is nearly out of ideas that it can reasonably offer to the broader electorate without offending its own base. Immigration and health care are perfect examples of this. I believe that the GOP is in deep, deep trouble; and that the GOP platform needs major revision. And I was hoping that New Majority was a place to talk about that.

• 56 HollywoodBill // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:24 am

  ComradeC–The GOP had 8 full years as the stewards of the economy and we are now reaping what has happened. Sinz has hit it. It is going to take time and some solid leadership for the public to regain its trust. But Snowe, Collins and Specter are not heretics that are going to be driven out of the Republican Party. The Republicans have lost the center of American politics and will be out of power until they regain that position. But as of right now, whatever the GOP is selling, the electorate is not buying.

• 57 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:39 am

  sinz. I too hoped that New Majority would be a place to renew the conservative movement. Instead, all we are getting is the Compassionate Conservatism agenda that destroyed the GOP. One of the main reason the GOP lost was the Iraq War. So where are the proposals for changing our foreign policy direction? Sorry, but I think that McCain made a mistake in saying “We are all Georgians”. Indies, already weary of the Iraq War, intrepreted that statement to mean that Mac would be a continuation of the Bush foreign policy. So why doesn’t New Majority start a thread discussing what the GOP should do about changing its foreign policy? I think that would be more contructive than ranting about Rush Limbaugh and the SoCons.

• 58 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:43 am

  HBill. Obama is not exactly the center of American politics. He is left. Hard left. Why do you want the GOP to win?

• 59 Kaz // Feb 16, 2009 at 11:21 am

  I agree the Republicans are horrible at constructing and communicating a coherent and compelling message, but I also agree with Chekote and Mikedbike: Frum and New Majority are believe in order for Republican’s to suceed, they need to compromise on basic conservative principles e.g. smaller government. The Republican’s lost their brand equity precisely because they didn’t follow core principles, and instead, supported budgets and policies that ballooned the size of government.

• 60 JoetheVeep // Feb 16, 2009 at 11:53 am

  Precisement, mon cher Kaz (speaking Canadian here). Running on stuff you haven’t been doing doesn’t lead to victory. The GOP didn’t stand for much of anything this go-round except winning in Iraq, and that was winding down anyway. And we still got close despite the Apocalypse in October.

  Winning again should start with coming up with an actual identity. It would help.

• 61 Paulie Carbone // Feb 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm

  Why discuss economic theory when the whole issue can be explained in terms of facile anecdotes? Did you guys hear the one about the bear DNA? I don’t know if that was a criminal issue or a paternity issue…LOL. If we keep telling funny anecdotes the public will realize that they actually do agree with our small government ideology, despite all objective evidence. All we need to do is pretend that Bush’s unpopularity had to do with prescription drug benefits and various other “compassionate” heresies. Moar anecdotes! Government waste anecdotes are SO cash.

• 62 Saltwood // Feb 16, 2009 at 1:33 pm

  A good point David on marsh mice. The stimulus was also flawed in that the expansion of Medicaid and CORBA were not means tested. The Republicans in the House offered amendments on those points, which the Democrats initially rejected in Committee. The Democrats subsequently added watered-down versions of a means test for both in order to take the rhetorical point away from the Republicans. (Means testing for COBRA and Medicaid is essentially a rhetorical rather than a policy point, it does little to limit the overall size of the package, but the image of Berine Madoff having the ability to have his COBRA payments subsidized by the taxpayers is illustrative of the reach of government activity in this massive spending package.

  I never understood the talking points on marsh mice. They seemed too attenuated from the many governmental expansions that could be pointed to in the bill. We tend to look for easy rhetorical points in political debate rather than getting to the merits. The best idea the Republicans have to combat the current depression (and I agree with Posner that we are in a depression, which is a political rather than economic construct) is cutting corporate tax rates. We now have essentially the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world, which provides significant incentive for multinational corporations to create and retain profit offshore in order to avoid U.S. tax.

  Although reducing corporate tax rates would be beneficial in reversing the current decline by freeing capital for capital expenditure and encouraging multinational corporations to repatriate overseas profits back to the U. S., cutting corporate taxes has no traction with the key demographic groups of the public that tend to decide elections. Since the Republicans, particularly in the House, cant actually accomplish anything affirmative at this point in the Congressional calendar; they are left with arguments about mice. We need to find a better way to make these points to the public. I hope this forum becomes a place where better ideas can be developed and discussed.

  That being said, I dont think the Republicans looked irrelevant and silly this past week. I think the Congressional Republicans agreed the country faces a serious economic crisis (a depression in my view) and the Republicans respectfully disagree with Pelosi, Reid and Obama that spending nearly a trillion dollars, with much of it spent on frivolity, is the best means to address this crisis. It was significant that the House Republicans voted unanimously twice (both initial House passage and on the Conference Report) against this legislation. The Democrats made many efforts to peel off Republicans with district directed pork. It sent a significant message to the attentive public that the Republicans are again serious about fiscal responsibility and the size and reach of deficit spending. Although we do not know when we will no longer be able to find buyers for Treasurys (the recent issues are as best as we can tell, bought by buyers in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Japan – the first three of whom are dubious partners for long term indebtedness), it is clear that Federal deficits of over a trillion dollars a year indefinitely are not sustainable.

• 63 joemarier // Feb 16, 2009 at 1:39 pm

  Chekote, you’ve made the same argument in quite a few threads, which is fine. Still, I’d like to point out that Frum devoted a chapter of his book “Comeback” to foreign policy questions. He also wrote an entire book on foreign policy with Richard Perle. He wrote a series on this website re: what went wrong in Iraq. Geoffrey Kabaservice’s series has touched on foreign policy questions in different ways (talking about anti-anticommunist Republicans, etc.) So foreign policy questions have been touched on. It’s just that the site is kind of driven by events, and not that much has happened during the stimulus debate to bring foreign policy to the fore. Besides, there are plenty of sites out there that will trash Republican foreign policy viewpoints all day and all night regardless of what’s actually going on. Just follow JJWfromME’s links, and enjoy!

• 64 realconservativ // Feb 16, 2009 at 2:57 pm

  David, since you believe that Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Congressional Republicans, etc. are the enemy (especially Sarah Palin) rather than Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, wouldn’t you be more comfortable just becoming part of the current majority (the Democratic Party). They love those who come over (Kathleen Parker got a ride in Air Force One last week). Besides, any who has bothered to do any research has discovered there’s nothing conservative about you.

• 65 Bulldoglover100 // Feb 16, 2009 at 3:47 pm

  Realconservativ……you can slam people from both parties and you can defend the people you choose but could YOU tell us how to get out of this mess? Can you explain to me, a Republican who does NOT support the blatthering going on daily from the likes of Beck, Limbaugh and bless her stupid heart Palin? Do you really see those people leading this country? and while we are at it can you explain how the GOP inherited a country when Bush took office that was free of debt and in 8 years put us 2 trillion in debt? and defend those same actions as conservative? Vitter is caught in a prostitution ring and now we are suppose to let him lead? Limbaugh the Magic Blowhard thinks women invite sexual abuse and we are suppose to let him guide us?
  You want to slam David Frum for being honest regarding the state of this party and for KNOWING we are doomed if we keep going down the same path but
  IF you truly want to stop whats going on with the party then you will stop with the anger and start trying to actually find some answers and realize that we are all in the same boat regardless of party.
  I see people on this site that hope Obama fails KNOWING the pain and hurt that will affect everyone in this country and thats a wound they are willing to inflict if it means the “party” gets to be “right”. Just freaking sick and yet in the same putrid breath they claim to want what’s best for America. No wonder we are out of power with no end in site.

• 66 larryo // Feb 16, 2009 at 4:17 pm

  Bulldoglover – *very* well put. Especially: “[W]e are all in the same boat regardless of party.” It is the appreciation of that particular point that separates the sheep from the goats, IMNSHO. Sinz54’s response to mikedbike deserves at least an honorable mention. I have been asked time and time again why I frequent this blog, and JJW has been subjected to the same thing. Ireign and a few others throw in insults for good measure. Those questions would not be asked by people who recognized the truth of this remarkable observation – we are all in this together, regardless of party – and I call it remarkable because of the large number of posters here who just will not seem to get it.

• 67 24AheadDotCom // Feb 16, 2009 at 4:22 pm

  I agree with Frum about the mouse, but at the same time the GOP is too corrupt and too afraid to discuss much more important issues. For instance, the fact that under the stim bill we’ll be spending billions of dollars providng jobs to foreign citizens who are here illegally. Whatever one thinks of the stimulus, any jobs provided under it should go to U.S. citizens instead of illegal aliens.

  So, let’s see Frum put his interest in major topics ahead of other concerns and really press a stimulus supporter on this question:

  http://24ahead.com/ask-stimulus-bill-question-illegal-aliens-taking-jobs-us-cit

  Since Frum isn’t going to do that, please grab your video camera, go to a public appearance by a stim bill supporter, ask them the question, and then upload it to Youtube. We can drag the discussion back to real topics, no matter what the GOP or Fram say or do.

• 68 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:22 pm

  Saltwood. Excellent post. I personally found it offensive that Frum thought that the GOP was silly. The unanimous “No” vote in the House, sent a clear message to forner Republican voters that the GOP is serious about getting back to fiscal discipline. I agree with you about the corporate tax reduction. However, this is an easy target for the Dems. You know, all the GOP cares about is the rich. I just wish they had publicized the payroll tax holiday. That would be an immediate injection of money in people’s pockets, Much more efficient than the rebate which will take months to process and deliver.

• 69 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:25 pm

  Joe Marier. I didn’t read Frum’s Comeback. And after reading his stuff for the past few weeks, I am not sure I want to read it. I read a couple of the mistakes in Iraq threads. Didn’t find them particularly interesting. Sorry.

• 70 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:30 pm

  Bulldog. “Limbaugh the Magic Blowhard thinks women invite sexual abuse and we are suppose to let him guide us?” Where did you get this nonsense? From Daily Kos? I have listened to Rush practically everyday since 1995 and never heard this. I am really getting fed up reading posts from people who never listen regularly to Rush. Trying informing youself before you post more of this drivel.

• 71 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:51 pm

  24AheadDotCom. If the GOP were to bring up the issue of illegal workers, Brooks, Kristol, Barnes will be the first in line to denouce the GOP for their mean, nativist rhetoric against Hispanics.

• 72 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 7:58 pm

  Many here have asked about how do we get out of this mess. Well, #1 fix the banking problem. That should have been the top priority of any administration. #2. Stop propping up the living dead. GM should have gone into bankruptcy in December, Instead, Bush – in the name of a smooth transition – went along with Obama and wasted another 15 billion. #3. Stimulate the economy by reducing personal, corporate and investment taxes.

• 73 Golem // Feb 16, 2009 at 8:06 pm

  “We in fact have a constructive solution to offer, one that would deliver more jobs faster: the payroll tax holiday, an idea endorsed by almost every reputable right-of-center economist. But thats not the solution being offered by Republicans in Congress. They are offering a clapped-out package of 1980s-vintage solutions, including capital gains tax cuts. Capital gains! Who has any capital gains to be taxed in the first place?”

  Why not a payroll tax holiday AND a capital gains tax cut, Mr. Frum? Your “Who has any capital gains to be taxed in the first place?” comment is a bit silly, to say the least.

• 74 larryo // Feb 16, 2009 at 9:37 pm

  “Name any other area other than defense and abortion where Bush was conservative.” Well, let’s see – what about tax cuts for the least deserving, gutting public education, hamstringing the NLRB, appointing conservative activists to run National Public Broadcasting, politicizing the DOJ, outing a covert CIA agent for political revenge, systematically placing deregulation fanatics at the heads of the regulatory agencies, attempting to scuttle – sorry, privatize – Social Security, lying intentionally in the State of the Union message (remember the yellowcake?), neglecting New Orleans and lying about it, ignoring serial warnings leading up to 9/11, creating gulags, initiating a plan for wholesale spying on everyone in the country knowing it was illegal, appointing a couple of outright fascists to the US Supreme Court and assisting their lies to Congress during their confirmation proceedings – what have I forgotten?

• 75 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 9:47 pm

  larryo. First of all, I have honestly and ethically earned every penny I have. So who the heck are you to decide that I don’t deserve to keep more of what I have earned? Least deserving my foot.

• 76 HLMencken // Feb 16, 2009 at 9:56 pm

  As a Democrat, I am absolutely thrilled by the behavior of the Republicans in Congress. It reminds me very much of my own party between the election of Reagan and the rise of Gingrich in 1994. First it was denial, then it was anger. After ‘94, there was a lot of bargaining.

  Republicans, you’re going to lose the Senate in ‘10, and you will get your clocks cleaned in ‘12. If the economy improves, you’ll be seen as having opposed the measures. If it worsens, the public will blame it on Bush and will target your resistance to change.

  In many ways, it won’t be fair. But that’s how it goes. Life is going to be very, very unfair for your side, and the things your people are doing right now are digging your political grave even deeper. In particular, do any of you even begin to realize what an utter public relations disaster the oily John Boehner is for you?

  No, I guess not!

• 77 Chekote // Feb 16, 2009 at 10:11 pm

  “In particular, do any of you even begin to realize what an utter public relations disaster the oily John Boehner is for you?” I will take Boehner over Pelosi any day. The Bush bogeyman is gone. The Dems can’t hide behind him anymore. It’s showtime. And I can’t wait until commercials featuring Schumer and Obey saying that the American people don’t care about wasteful spending. Porky amedments indeed.

• 78 petty boozshwa // Feb 17, 2009 at 3:04 am

  I have to agree with Mencken – Boehner might not be in Scott McClellan’s category, but he’s definitely not the best visual our party has to offer. His mellifluous baritone and sunlamp tan make him appear to be a misplaced used car salesmen who’s traded in his porkpie hat and plaid coat. Why not Flake or Cantor? We need to hit the reset button..

• 79 larryo // Feb 17, 2009 at 8:31 am

  So, Chekote, am I to believe that the only place we part company is over tax breaks for Sam Walton’s relatives?

• 80 larryo // Feb 17, 2009 at 8:40 am

  “If the economy improves, you’ll be seen as having opposed the measures. If it worsens, the public will blame it on Bush and will target your resistance to change. In many ways, it won’t be fair.” Oh, I don’t know, HL – it seems like just desserts to me. Look how 9/11 was exploited to wage a war of opportunity for which we will all be paying for decades in ways we don’t even foresee yet. There is way too much for which they must atone, and fairness is never a factor in the development of the conservative agenda – I don’t see where they should get much consideration on that basis.

• 81 Realist // Feb 17, 2009 at 10:02 am

  petty, it’s a shame that a guy like michael steele hasn’t been a better spokesman since being elected head of the RNC. saying that the government has never created a single job was a preposterous mistake. i live in AZ, and unfortunately, flake is not very popular even in his own district. he almost decided not to run for reelection. it’s clear that leadership has to come from congress. governors dont get daily face time. too bad bobby jindal isnt a senator.

• 82 coleman // Feb 17, 2009 at 12:01 pm

  Less ideology, more ideas. It’s curious how grouchiness works on radio, but fails miserably on the tube. Boehner & Co. stand in front of the camera looking like they need a Tums.
  Can’t we come up with some fresh thinking? Read more polls, listen less to Talk Radio.

• 83 larryo // Feb 17, 2009 at 12:29 pm

  “Boehner & Co. stand in front of the camera looking like they need a Tums.” Thanks, coleman. There is nothing like a good belly laugh just before lunch.

• 84 MSheridan // Feb 17, 2009 at 12:45 pm

  cronus, regarding your suggestion that the GOP leadership should return to the stance it took early in Clinton’s first term, I have to say that I don’t think that is a particularly good idea. It didn’t work for them then, and many of the comments then made look particularly stupid at this remove in time. See this post on CongressMatters.com: http://www.congressmatters.com/storyonly/2009/2/15/92441/0913/399/636

• 85 larryo // Feb 17, 2009 at 1:05 pm

  MSheridan – same old wine and not a very new bottle, either. This should embarrass everyone on this blog who has made the same, tired dire predictions about the Obama stimulus package, but I would bet that it will not.

• 86 gerrysh // Feb 17, 2009 at 3:43 pm

  zzz .. another “me too” / Dem Lite post from Frum

  You really need to read these words from WFB:
  http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDM1ZDEzZmQ4NjQ4OTFjODg4MTliOGY4ZmEzNDcyODI=

• 87 larryo // Feb 17, 2009 at 8:01 pm

  Yes, indeed – all you “rugged individualists” somehow manage to be victimized or backstabbed every time, don’t you? Either “freedom” has been deprioritized in the schools or the communists have taken over the State Department. It’s always something, isn’t it? You don’t suppose it could be that you are just plain wrong, do you? Naw, that couldn’t be!

• 88 Reformist // Feb 18, 2009 at 1:26 am

  Question I have for anyone that can explain it to me intelligently – why is it that the biggest concern here is winning elections/majority? What is the point? Seems to me that this is ALSO Backward Thinking…it is outdated, “1980’s vintage” politics. This Party needs to ask itself – what did it do to HELP Obama get elected? There is more responsibility to bear there…then could or should be placed on the Media. Those mindless morons are interested in ratings boys…much like your focus on tallying up “wins”. This Economy is CRUMBLING beneath our feet…and we want to talk about how we look? What on Earth will make you open your eyes? It is not only the Republican Party looking for “Leadership” – It is a hungry, tired and weary America CRYING OUT for Leadership that brings SOLUTIONS to the table. Seriously, if we are not part of the solution – we are part of the problem. It’s a fitting cliche, in these times more than ever.

  Seems to me, that too many people in DC decided it was much more fun to be Rock Stars than Civil Servants. This party backlash has been 20 years in the making! “Look Serious”???? How about “BE SERIOUS”! Pop-Culture Politics is not only ignorant – it’s dangerous.

  Ask your “supporters” to dip deep into their pockets, forfeit their retirement, spend more on gas than they can on food…to bail out Bankers with larger than life salaries…after you allowed a large portion of middle-class jobs to be shipped overseas in the name of Big Business Profits – and this is what we get. People that can’t afford to support you in the manner you are accustomed to, let alone themselves. American People are desperate for RELIEF. You can blame it on a mouse, if you want to. Fact is, it goes much much deeper than that.

  But, hey, hats off to you, for keeping it business as usual. Maybe we can play the religion card a little harder next time…that’s gotta work, right?
  My vote is to Man Up – and take this Country and its People seriously. Let’s start to shape our actions around doing what is right as servants of the People – not what is profitable for few. Let’s stop trying to gather anyone with an easily swayed opinion, let’s educate them on what we REALLY have to offer. And more importantly, let’s show them what we can DO…when America needs us MOST!

• 89 larryo // Feb 18, 2009 at 9:10 am

  “Ask your “supporters” to dip deep into their pockets, forfeit their retirement, spend more on gas than they can on food…to bail out Bankers with larger than life salaries…after you allowed a large portion of middle-class jobs to be shipped overseas in the name of Big Business Profits – and this is what we get.” Exactly! Well said, reformist.

• 90 Michelle Malkin » The uniter: Scott Brown’s center-right-indie coalition // Jan 18, 2010 at 6:14 am

  [...] bemoaned the “furious rejectionist frenzy of the past 12 months.” He accused the GOP of losing its mind and pouted that Republicans looked “clueless” and “silly” for standing [...]

You must log in to post a comment.