Comments on: The Fact Is: I Can’t Get Kids In This City To Come To School

By: barker13

barker13 — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:25:43 +0000

Tom,

I don't question your good intentions. Nor do I equate "pragmatism" with... er... "evilness." Yeah... I was a bit rough on you, but don't take it personally, I'm simply... er... forthright.

(*WINK*)

"The kids come to me reading at 5-6 grade level. I teach 12th. Keeping them in the system another year is serving NO ONE..."

And passing them serves... whom?

Cooperating in a kabuki theatre... pretending we've educated students we haven't educated... whom does that serve?

Tom. Changing the dynamic - challenging "the system" - has to start somewhere: Why not with you? Or... at least... why not with you in terms of playing your small part is just saying "NO!" to the continuation of this sick farce?

(*SHRUG*)

"I just got back home after taking a team of 20 city kids to a meet all the way across the city where we stomped on three other schools who barely mustered a squad. 20 kids busy after school each day doing something positive - working towards something positive - would it be better if I were not in this school?"

Tom. Have you ever seen Schindler's list? As an individual Schindler was a hero because he did what he could to alleviate, to mitigate, some of the horrors of the system. Imagine though if enough Germans had had the backbone to "just say no" in the first place to a system where a Schindler could become a hero simply by making things better for some while the vast majority were sent to their fate?

For the SYSTEM to change... the PARTS of the system have to ensure that change.

Oh... and btw... I know... I know... all of this "theory" is EASY for me to spout. Take my word though... I've walked the walk in my time; I don't just talk the talk.

Yes... there is a place for pragmatism... for compromise... but beware the step by step path down the hallway toward a point where you're no longer trying to work from within to enact positive change, but instead, you've reached the heights where YOU YOURSELF have become "part of the problem."

(I'm speaking in broad terms, not you specifically, no particular profession; but think of the bright eyed idealist working as a page on Capital Hill and 40 years later he's... Dan Rostenkowski or Duke Cunningham.")

Or...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMNNpIksaI

Beware the Dark Side, my young friend...

(*GRIN*)

BILL (The Misunderstood Idealist)

By: Publius

Publius — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:10:15 +0000

Thomas, dear friend, stop the madness. You and I both know that if you attempted to issue actual earned grades to yur students you would be ordered, not asked, to amend the grades. We have both experienced that. To make the attempt at a high school that has been uprooted at mid-year and has been ordered dis-established would be folly of the worst order. Issuing ‘Fs’ you know will be expunged and amended would simply be an exercise in futility. What is not an effort in futility is to make perfect copoies of all your records, before they arte reqyuired to be surrendered at year’s end, and deliver a copy to the State Board of Education and to every major news outlet in your community. The rug large enough to sweep that mess under does not exist. Perhaps, in the hue and cry that will undoubtedly follow, a true discussion can be had. If the truth sets us free, will this free your spirit?

By: thomasgibbon

thomasgibbon — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:14:46 +0000

Lastly, Barker....

Good question:

Am I part of the problem or solution?

I just got back home after taking a team of 20 city kids to a meet all the way across the city where we stomped on three other schools who barely mustered a squad. 20 kids busy after school each day doing something positive - working towards something positive - would it be better if I were not in this school?

I know the reality of my school. We can't grade on merit like they do at a prep school. There are too many issues. Call it a cop out or an unfortunate reality. To think it's the former is to ignore the latter.

By: thomasgibbon

thomasgibbon — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:58:07 +0000

Barker,

I respect your point. The kids come to me reading at 5-6 grade level. I teach 12th. Keeping them in the system another year is serving NO ONE...

I'm not toeing a line or trying to advance my career! It serves no purpose keeping these kids in school, or trying to, for another year.

They are already so far behind it would take a herculean effort from non-existent forces to make it work - - never going to happen. Still, I hear what you're saying. I think about it often. What's best for these kids? I have no idea.

By: barker13

barker13 — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:34:13 +0000

"Since government has clearly failed these kids,"

How so...?

Seriously... how so... exactly?

Perhaps you'd like "government" to regulate pregnancy and child bearing? Hmm... if we can perform reversible "sterilizations" on children as they're born, then in order to become a parent you'd have to petition the government...

(*RUEFUL SMIRK*)

Hmm... or perhaps...

Take more kids out of their homes. Government can decide who is and who isn't a "good parent" and what is or isn't a "good home" and then just take the kids away and raise them in government funded/run orphanages.

That what you're thinking, Sinz...???

Go on... enlighten us... start where all government efforts to "educate" the parent/parents have failed... start with a home that 9 out of 10 of us who regularly comment on this blog would agree is dysfunctional...

(This should be good!)

(*TAPPING MY TOES*) (*PATIENTLY WAITING*)

BILL

P.S. - BTW... in a perfect world I'd go for BOTH of my scenarios! (*WINK*)

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:26:05 +0000

Thom: It really doesn't matter when you pass or fail these two kids you mentioned--they have deep sociological pathologies that are going to ruin their lives anyway, unless something is done. And evidently government social services have already failed to help them.

You need to be more of a social worker than a teacher. Since government has clearly failed these kids, I would try to get these kids some help from the non-profit private sector. Tell them that a passing grade will be CONTINGENT on them going to the YMCA, or whatever other faith-based or secular private organizations for troubled kids exist in your community. And they will have to bring proof that they have sought out these organizations in exchange for a passing grade.

If you don't think you'll get in trouble with your superiors, ask these kids if they have a religion. If they are Catholics, for example, TELL them to talk over their situation with their priest. He can't fix it. But he can help them deal with it better.

We conservatives believe in the power of private charity. Let's put that theory to the test with these kids.

By: barker13

barker13 — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:47:05 +0000

"The basic message Ive gotten from the administrators is this: Get these kids up outta here. So I did. I passed all but three or four kids for the quarter."

So... your "answer" is to simply... er... follow orders?

(*SIGH*)

Question: Putting aside class attendance and class participation, what percentage of your average class merits a D or better based upon quantifiable grades?

Well, Tom... allow me to make it short and simple: THOSE are the only students you should be passing. To pass a student who deserves an F... sounds like malfeasance to me - fiduciary breach at the very least.

Tom... if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. What you're doing is dishonest and dishonorable. That's my opinion.

"I passed the kids who cussed me out, didnt show up, can hardly read and write I passed them all. Why the hell not?"

BECAUSE IT'S WRONG!!! That's why. You're serving YOUR best interests - not society's... not those kids'... not the taxpayers... not the parents. If this is you as a "new" teacher I can only imagine what a "burnt out" Tom Gibbon would be like.

(*SIGH*)

"What good am I doing society if I fail a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds?"

No good. You're doing BAD.

"Then again, what good am I doing by passing them?"

You're going along to get along; ultimately your placing YOUR career prospects above the public good as well as betraying your duty to those students.

BILL

P.S. - I don't expect the censors will let THIS post remain on the board too long. We'll see.

By: ChristianMiller

ChristianMiller — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:23:32 +0000

Failing these individual kids would be a shame because they have been operating on the existing expectations. The system is a failure mostly due to years of Democrat policies and cultural attitudes. Any idiot can rubber-stamp these kids through, so you are not “teaching” per se. I would get out of there and go polish my guns. Let Cforchange deal with it – he has all the answers.

By: Cforchange

Cforchange — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:09:46 +0000

No one in the know would classify you as a naive pushover. But I find it interesting that you are a Republican. The party is just saturated with:I don’t care to deal with any of it. I’m moving way out so I can polish my guns in privacy.