RSS Feed MenuEarlier this week, the New York Times published an article examining President Obama’s slide in popularity among the young (18 to 29 year-old) voters whose overwhelming support had been so instrumental in securing his election to the presidency nearly two years ago. The much-talked-about piece has gathered some criticism – for example, Paul Waldman at liberal newsmagazine The American Prospect takes issue with the size of the trending opposition, while Jamelle Bouie at the same publication asserts that “young voters are still really liberal,” – so we at FrumForum decided to do some asking around of our own. We asked six current college students at elite East Coast universities – just the sort of demographic with which the Democrats enjoyed huge majorities in 2008 – to tell us how their political views have changed or stayed the same since they cast their first presidential ballot two years ago. Because some hold positions (or one day hope to) in industry and the government, they talked to us on condition of anonymity.
* * *
As a liberal, I was of course happy to see my candidate win in 2008. In the past two years, my political views have evolved on several issues. On matters both foreign and domestic, I have become more right wing on some, and more left wing on others. However, in thinking of how my views have changed at this, the midpoint of Obama’s presidency, one thing stands out: a loss of faith in our nature as a nation.
I had hoped that Obama’s victory would provide an opportunity for Americans to move beyond the divisions that had plagued this country during the latter years of George W. Bush. Unfortunately, it only seems as if the opposite has occurred. I am disappointed in my country.
* * *
I think that the largest change in my views since 2008 has been that I have become more and more irritated by the amount of government in my life. I have always thought that the government overly imposed itself on the American public, from the excessive spending coupled with suffocating taxation to unnecessary regulation that infringes upon our rights. I understand the need for government to exist in our lives, but President Obama has used an in-your-face Chicago-style politics to swim against a current of popular opinion. I get the feeling that he is stuffing his views down the throat of the American public. With such little desire to compromise on any issue, he has pushed me further right than my beliefs would normally have gone, and perhaps further right than is healthy.
Since President Obama has taken over as president I have also taken several college economics courses. This has given me greater insight into the views of liberals. While I have political biases, I have tried to become more objective in my analysis of government. However, this has led me to see President Obama as a man who means well, but doesn’t really get how incentives work and the inefficiencies of government, which can clearly be seen by the way that the Cash-for-Clunkers program was carried out and how poorly it was run.
* * *
I entered college with conservative views. It was an election year and I was caught up in the middle of it, proudly adorning my backpack with all sorts of McCain pins. Since then, the Republican Party that I used to admire has gone off the deep end. People are beginning to become apathetic, and I am among them.
* * *
My political views have not changed while the Obama administration has been in power, but I’ve questioned my faith in the voting public. Not only have many voters opposed the legislation they previously endorsed by voting for President Obama, but they have been swayed by radical organizations such as the Tea Party, which opposes any type of compromise with the Democratic Party.
Even though our country made great strides by electing Barack Obama, we still have a long way to go before we experience real change.
* * *
My opinion of now-President Obama remains the same as when I voted for him 2 years ago. I think that though well-educated and clearly qualified for the job, he inflamed his audiences far too much. With so many people seemingly blindly devoted to his far-reaching goals (including my own parents), Obama seemed poised to fall from his pedestal. Now, two years later, people are seeing that their President, though fantastic behind a podium, is actually just as human as they are.
* * *
Since 2008, I have become more liberal, and I attribute much of that leftward movement to the university environment. For instance, I lived my freshmen and sophomore years with a Muslim, and I have made friends in the Georgetown Muslim community. Hot-button issues like gay marriage or the Park51 Muslim center have highlighted a nasty streak of intolerance within parts of the conservative community.
Although he is not the main reason, Obama has definitely contributed to my shift to the left. I believe he provides a very strong, and much-needed, antidote to the irrational discourse of many on the right.
* * *
Four Obama voters (one reluctant), one McCain supporter. Two find themselves less politically engaged since Obama took office, two found new dedication to their respective causes, right and left. However, amidst such a diverse picture the seeds of lessons can be extracted, lessons that help to confirm what everyone already knows about young voters.
JeninCT // Sep 7, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Are any of them planning to vote? That should’ve been your opening sentence.
I did get a chuckle out of the first student quoted who was “disappointed in her country”. Was she from Princeton by any chance?
GEValle // Sep 7, 2010 at 3:35 pm
@ easton:
“By the way, marriage is not a 9,000 year old institution. It has changed radically over the centuries”
Very true.
But NOWHERE did it ever include or condone two guys, or two gals marrying each other.
Rabiner // Sep 7, 2010 at 3:43 pm
CO Independent:
Just as ‘east coast elite schools’ may not be representative, neither would Colorado State University which is located basically in the home of Evangelical Christianity in the United States. My neighbor went there and was taken aback by the difference in culture there versus Los Angeles.
WillyP // Sep 7, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Non,
“Additionally both the current debt and deficit doesn’t amount to squat and no one can prove otherwise… The difference is that everything I believe in has been proven with history and you live in a fantasy world of make believe.”
Oh, so government debt never implodes? So out of control governments magically regain control of themselves and debt levels?
What reality do you exist in?
Non-Contributor // Sep 7, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Like I said wheres the proof. What level of debt matters to the US? What person in this world believes that the US will default under the current, or even double, triple, or ten times the current levels, China? If the US defaults the world economy ends and there is no country that is looking at and saying that is a good option. Its a lot of crap. The US is not even close to debt being an issue.
CO Independent // Sep 7, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@ Rabiner:
>> Just as ‘east coast elite schools’ may not be representative, neither would Colorado State University which is located basically in the home of Evangelical Christianity in the United States. My neighbor went there and was taken aback by the difference in culture there versus Los Angeles.
I think you are confusing Colorado Springs, which is an Evangelical stronghold, with Fort Collins, which is not so much an Evangelical stronghold.
CSU is a land grant university, so it is Ag, Engineering, etc. Certainly more conservative than Boulder or LA, though. Maybe a bit like Orange County, but with cows.
WillyP // Sep 7, 2010 at 5:52 pm
non,
sure, if we were to freeze spending and then institute crippling new taxes, we could probably get out of debt. probably.
but this is a sort of modern serfdom. serfdom grew out of the roman empire a) debasing their coinage, thus b) destroying the middle class c) spending money to pacify parochial resentment d) instituting new taxes so that they would not default on their debts.
one consequence was a tax that tied the then-middle class to the land. this effectively made the worker unable to emigrate and forced them to pay taxes. this is the origin of the word serf. a serf is a slave to debt.
you think we’re so far off from debt being a problem? not when you do this to an economy. not when you have stagnant growth and ever-increasing spending. anybody sophisticated to solve an algebra equation knows we are on an unsustainable path.
there are two basic options: 1) cut spending 2) raise taxes. democrats continue to RAISE spending, making tax increases all but a certain occurrence. and guess what? when you raise taxes in a depression, you’re almost bound to DECREASE tax revenue, because you’ll depress business activity or drive it underground.
$13 trillion and counting. $1 trillion sitting on bank’s balance sheets waiting to be loaned, causing who knows what kind of inflation. in 2015, 50% of our federal budget will go to interest payments on debt ALONE. massive new entitlements that don’t come into play until 2012. talk of a vat tax, a carbon tax, a wealth tax.
what kind of land do you wish to leave your children? what sick puppies do this to posterity? the democrat party is obviously a party of marxists, or else they would not be spending us into oblivion. they are committing child abuse on a grand scale.
Rabiner // Sep 7, 2010 at 6:09 pm
CO Independent:
“CSU is a land grant university, so it is Ag, Engineering, etc. Certainly more conservative than Boulder or LA, though. Maybe a bit like Orange County, but with cows.”
I find it happenstance that you mention Orange County since has some of the largest Evangelical communities in the State and was the headquarters for Prop 8. I also lived and went to school at UC Irvine so I’ve had some experience with the population.
But yes, I did confuse Fort Collins with Colorado Springs but even Fort Collins is a far cry from Boulder or where I have relatives who live in Golden (they work at the School of Mines).
Non-Contributor // Sep 7, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Government needs to simulate the economy because businesses won’t that is why they hoard cash. Raising taxes now is really not a good idea but is a lot less harmful then trying to pay down debt which is fundamentally stupid. Were not in a depression so I have no clue why you brought that up.
The problem with the economy is the lack consumption. Has nothing to do with debt, taxes, social security, medicare, Fannie or Freddie, or how much banks have to lend.
Get people spending money by providing reassurance and jobs. The government can do both.
WillyP // Sep 8, 2010 at 8:47 am
the solution is therefore always more government spending.
meh, and so it shall be until people realize their errors.
sinz54 // Sep 8, 2010 at 9:32 am
Carney: What is the newsworthiness of this article? Only large sample sized polls of likely voters (NOT registered voters or mere adults) matters and is at all reliable
I cited just such a poll (and supplied links)–but it was ignored.
So much for trying to have an intelligent discussion about the youth vote.
You may dismiss young people as stupid or apathetic. But when they can be motivated to vote in large numbers and participate in large numbers in GOTV drives, they can have quite an effect. The “netroots” were a major component of the Obama campaign in 2008.
easton // Sep 8, 2010 at 6:36 pm
GEValle, people have married animals in the past, so are you OK with that, this from Wiki:
Cow
* An Indonesian teenager was forced by village elders to marry a cow after he was caught having sex with it. Ngurah Alit claimed the cow seduced him and “wooed him with flattering compliments.” The cow was then drowned in a “cleansing” ritual.[1]
[edit] Horse
* In some parts of Celtic Ireland, kings (often called “sacred kings”) had to wed the local goddess of the land. A druidess was usually chosen to represent the land goddess as the king’s wife, but one king in Donegal married a horse, a representative of their local goddess. [1]
* May 1998 – The Jerry Springer Show had an episode titled “I Married a Horse!”. The show was ultimately not aired by many stations on the planned date, apparently due to concerns about the acceptability of broadcasting an episode in which a man admitted to a long term emotional and sexual relationship of this kind. The man and his horse later participated in a British documentary on the subject.[2]
[edit] Dog
* June 2003 – a nine year old Indian girl of the Santal (or ‘Santhal’) tribe of Khanyhan, near Calcutta was formally married to a dog, in order to ward off a bad omen. The wedding was attended by more than one hundred guests, who danced to the beating of drums and drank home-made liquor. The girl told Western press, “I have no regret in marrying the dog Bacchan. I am fond of the dog who moves around our locality (translation [sic])” and tribal elders added she was free to remarry a human in future as an adult. [2]
* November 2007 – A man in southern India married a female dog in a traditional Hindu ceremony as an attempt to atone for stoning two other dogs to death — an act he believes cursed him. Selvakumar, 33, told the paper he had been suffering since he stoned two dogs to death and hung their bodies from a tree 15 years prior.[3]
* February 2009 – An infant boy was married off to his neighbors’ dog in eastern India by villagers who said it will stop the groom from being killed by wild animals. The boy will still be able to marry a human bride in the future without filing for divorce. [4]
[edit] Goat
Main article: Sudanese goat marriage incident
* February 2006 – a Sudanese man named Charles Tombe caught having sex with a neighbour’s goat which was subsequently nicknamed Rose, was ordered by the council of elders to pay the neighbour a dowry of 15,000 Sudanese dinars ($75) and marry the animal. [3]
[edit] Snake
* June 2006 – an Indian woman from Bhubaneswar, Orissa, allegedly “fell in love with a snake” and was married to it at a “traditional Hindu wedding celebrated by 2,000 guests”. She claimed that a bond of understanding existed between the two. The woman had previously been ill, and recovered upon offering milk to the snake, at which time she fell in love. She later “converted to the animal-loving vegetarian Vaishnav sect whose local elders gave her permission to marry the cobra.” [5]. An investigation by Harper’s magazine journalist Mischa Berlinski suggests that the snake may not even exist at all and that the incident may have been stage-managed as part of a local power struggle between Vaishnav religious leaders.[4]
And there was gay marriage in ancient times, this too from wiki:
Ancient
Various types of same-sex marriages have existed,[38] ranging from informal, unsanctioned relationships to highly ritualized unions.[39]
In the southern Chinese province of Fujian, through the Ming dynasty period, females would bind themselves in contracts to younger females in elaborate ceremonies.[citation needed] Males also entered similar arrangements. This type of arrangement was also similar in ancient European history.[40]
An example of egalitarian male domestic partnership from the early Zhou Dynasty period of China is recorded in the story of Pan Zhang & Wang Zhongxian. While the relationship was clearly approved by the wider community, and was compared to heterosexual marriage, it did not involve a religious ceremony binding the couple.[41]
The first historical mention of the performance of same-sex marriages occurred during the early Roman Empire.[42] For instance, Emperor Nero is said to have married one of his male slaves. Emperor Elagabalus married a Carian slave named Hierocles.[43] While there is a consensus among modern historians that same-sex relationships existed in ancient Rome, the exact frequency and nature of same-sex unions during that period has been obscured.[44] In 342 AD Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans issued a law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) prohibiting same-sex marriage in Rome and ordering execution for those so married.[45]
Candy83 // Sep 8, 2010 at 8:23 pm
It takes some longer to have a political ideology. And for some people, it doesn’t happen. There is the matter of “solutions” — regardless of, say, left-wing, right-wing, moderate, centrist.
Carney // Sep 9, 2010 at 12:16 pm
easton, all or nearly all of those things you mentioned were regarded as bizarre and perverse even in their own time.