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	<title>Comments on: The Bush Economic Record &#8211; Blame Healthcare</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: cwillia11</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-2#comment-65272</link>
		<dc:creator>cwillia11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-65272</guid>
		<description>Government policy at both the state and federal levels is driving up health care costs. True the Bush administration did very little to remedy the situation but the Democrats are running the show now and what they are up to will drive health care costs up further resulting in the perceived need for direct government management of health care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Government policy at both the state and federal levels is driving up health care costs. True the Bush administration did very little to remedy the situation but the Democrats are running the show now and what they are up to will drive health care costs up further resulting in the perceived need for direct government management of health care.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-2#comment-65184</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-65184</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;NO PATIENT should have to give up anything they currently have (which for many upscale employees of large corporations includes paid acupuncture and subsidized memberships in Weight Watchers and health clubs).&lt;/b&gt;

Sinz, of course, is assuming that the market will bear all of these for those upscale employees forever into the future.  But how many layoffs have we read about from those same large corporations just in the last year?  Last winter and spring, it seemed that every time we opened the paper it was Company X laying off 300, or Company Y shedding 2,000, or Company Z reducing their workforce by 10,000 employees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>NO PATIENT should have to give up anything they currently have (which for many upscale employees of large corporations includes paid acupuncture and subsidized memberships in Weight Watchers and health clubs).</b></p>
<p>Sinz, of course, is assuming that the market will bear all of these for those upscale employees forever into the future.  But how many layoffs have we read about from those same large corporations just in the last year?  Last winter and spring, it seemed that every time we opened the paper it was Company X laying off 300, or Company Y shedding 2,000, or Company Z reducing their workforce by 10,000 employees.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-2#comment-65113</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-65113</guid>
		<description>sftor1:  &lt;blockquote&gt; Could it be we might have conservatives with us soon to throw out this nonsense we call a health care system, and start over with something that works? &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, WITH ONE PROVISO:

NO ONE should be forced into accepting less or worse health care under YOUR proposed system than they currently enjoy.

That means:  No long lines and long waits waiting for care; no denial of treatment due to overly expensive Quality of Life Years (QALYs); no long waits for elective surgeries; and no cuts in payment to hospitals.  NO PATIENT should have to give up anything they currently have (which for many upscale employees of large corporations includes paid acupuncture and subsidized memberships in Weight Watchers and health clubs).

NOW, go ahead and construct a health care system &quot;that works.&quot;
Lots of luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sftor1:<br />
<blockquote> Could it be we might have conservatives with us soon to throw out this nonsense we call a health care system, and start over with something that works? </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, WITH ONE PROVISO:</p>
<p>NO ONE should be forced into accepting less or worse health care under YOUR proposed system than they currently enjoy.</p>
<p>That means:  No long lines and long waits waiting for care; no denial of treatment due to overly expensive Quality of Life Years (QALYs); no long waits for elective surgeries; and no cuts in payment to hospitals.  NO PATIENT should have to give up anything they currently have (which for many upscale employees of large corporations includes paid acupuncture and subsidized memberships in Weight Watchers and health clubs).</p>
<p>NOW, go ahead and construct a health care system &#8220;that works.&#8221;<br />
Lots of luck!</p>
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		<title>By: johnmarzan</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-2#comment-64907</link>
		<dc:creator>johnmarzan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64907</guid>
		<description>blame healthcare for economic crash? why not blame the housing crisis + $140/barrel oil for economic collapse?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>blame healthcare for economic crash? why not blame the housing crisis + $140/barrel oil for economic collapse?</p>
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		<title>By: greg_barton</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64903</link>
		<dc:creator>greg_barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64903</guid>
		<description>The debate is pointless.  Democrats will pass something with absolutely no Republican support.  In 40 years you&#039;ll have conservatives yelling at town hall meetings, &quot;Keep the government out of my universal health care!&quot;  And that&#039;s that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The debate is pointless.  Democrats will pass something with absolutely no Republican support.  In 40 years you&#8217;ll have conservatives yelling at town hall meetings, &#8220;Keep the government out of my universal health care!&#8221;  And that&#8217;s that.</p>
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		<title>By: SFTor1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64799</link>
		<dc:creator>SFTor1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64799</guid>
		<description>It seems that the health care debate is turning. Could it be we might have conservatives with us soon to throw out this nonsense we call a health care system, and start over with something that works? 

If for no other reason we need affordable and transportable health care to take the burden off the business sector. That means one risk pool and a single payer, and a nationwide network of private providers who can constantly innovate health care delivery.

The insurance companies? Nothing more than an anachronism. They have got to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that the health care debate is turning. Could it be we might have conservatives with us soon to throw out this nonsense we call a health care system, and start over with something that works? </p>
<p>If for no other reason we need affordable and transportable health care to take the burden off the business sector. That means one risk pool and a single payer, and a nationwide network of private providers who can constantly innovate health care delivery.</p>
<p>The insurance companies? Nothing more than an anachronism. They have got to go.</p>
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		<title>By: txanne</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64796</link>
		<dc:creator>txanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64796</guid>
		<description>After this week I feel like we need to have a non-partisan Civility March on Washington, because we are going nowhere fast.

As for healthcare cost, it really galls me to hear people who profess that we are the greatest country in the world attack  any real talk of  medical savings as pie in the sk.  Where is the &quot;We are America, we can do anything&quot; spirit?

Anyway a few articles I have found interesting lately

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&amp;sid=a09dX4NiJ714

Atul Gawande:  
Dr. Peter Pronovost’s checklist

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/10/071210fa_fact_gawande

The Cost Conundrum
What a Texas town can teach us about health care.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After this week I feel like we need to have a non-partisan Civility March on Washington, because we are going nowhere fast.</p>
<p>As for healthcare cost, it really galls me to hear people who profess that we are the greatest country in the world attack  any real talk of  medical savings as pie in the sk.  Where is the &#8220;We are America, we can do anything&#8221; spirit?</p>
<p>Anyway a few articles I have found interesting lately</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&amp;sid=a09dX4NiJ714" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&amp;sid=a09dX4NiJ714</a></p>
<p>Atul Gawande:<br />
Dr. Peter Pronovost’s checklist</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/10/071210fa_fact_gawande" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/10/071210fa_fact_gawande</a></p>
<p>The Cost Conundrum<br />
What a Texas town can teach us about health care.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande</a></p>
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		<title>By: greg_barton</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64795</link>
		<dc:creator>greg_barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64795</guid>
		<description>Frum sayeth:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Wow.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever heard a self identified conservative ever say that workers could perceive a free-market economy as anything other than fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frum sayeth:</p>
<blockquote><p>Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever heard a self identified conservative ever say that workers could perceive a free-market economy as anything other than fair.</p>
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		<title>By: ltoro1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64788</link>
		<dc:creator>ltoro1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64788</guid>
		<description>Have more kids?  Sinz, I happen to agree fully with you on this one.  The only problem is that with the reported decline in real income, this also becomes more unaffordable.  I guess we have to root for Octomom, Jon and Kate, and that couple on TV with the 20 kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have more kids?  Sinz, I happen to agree fully with you on this one.  The only problem is that with the reported decline in real income, this also becomes more unaffordable.  I guess we have to root for Octomom, Jon and Kate, and that couple on TV with the 20 kids.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/the-bush-economic-record-blame-healthcare/comment-page-1#comment-64757</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12196#comment-64757</guid>
		<description>liv &amp; win: &lt;blockquote&gt; If the Republic is to survive, health reform which addresses cost must be passed. The problem is, no one has a good handle on a solution(s). &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I have the IDEAL solution to the rising costs of Social Security, Medicare, and health care in this country. And it is simply this:

HAVE MORE CHILDREN!

The costs of health care and old age care are rising all over the Western world, not just in America.  Even in countries with single-payer systems like in Europe, costs are rising.

And that&#039;s because life spans are increasing, folks are living longer--but they&#039;re not living out the remainder of their lives in good health.  They&#039;re living with one or more chronic illnesses.

And with birth rates declining, there aren&#039;t enough young taxpayers to foot the bill for the care of the previous generations.  Today, there are only two taxpayers for every retiree.  But 200 years ago, a mom typically had some six to eight children, so there were far more taxpayers than retirees.

Put away your birth control pills.  Stop having vasectomies.  You and your honey just do what comes naturally.  And the demographic population distribution will rebalance itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>liv &amp; win:<br />
<blockquote> If the Republic is to survive, health reform which addresses cost must be passed. The problem is, no one has a good handle on a solution(s). </p></blockquote>
<p>I have the IDEAL solution to the rising costs of Social Security, Medicare, and health care in this country. And it is simply this:</p>
<p>HAVE MORE CHILDREN!</p>
<p>The costs of health care and old age care are rising all over the Western world, not just in America.  Even in countries with single-payer systems like in Europe, costs are rising.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s because life spans are increasing, folks are living longer&#8211;but they&#8217;re not living out the remainder of their lives in good health.  They&#8217;re living with one or more chronic illnesses.</p>
<p>And with birth rates declining, there aren&#8217;t enough young taxpayers to foot the bill for the care of the previous generations.  Today, there are only two taxpayers for every retiree.  But 200 years ago, a mom typically had some six to eight children, so there were far more taxpayers than retirees.</p>
<p>Put away your birth control pills.  Stop having vasectomies.  You and your honey just do what comes naturally.  And the demographic population distribution will rebalance itself.</p>
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