The Birther Disgrace

April 27th, 2011 at 10:28 am David Frum | 349 Comments |

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Even for the small band that sustained the phony controversy until now, the birth certificate so-called issue ends today.

Any last lingering doubts that maybe, perhaps, a pregnant Stanley Ann Dunham in the summer of 1961 boarded a propeller plane from Honolulu to Los Angeles, then from Los Angeles to New York City, then from New York City to Gander, then from Gander to London, then from London to Nairobi – and then repeated the trip backward a few weeks later – all so that her baby could acquire Kenyan nationality – those doubts are definitively squelched, as they should have been three years ago.

Now the more haunting question: How did this poisonous and not very subtly racist allegation get such a grip on our conservative movement and our Republican party?

I know there will be Republican writers and conservative publicists who will now deny that birtherism ever did get a grip. Sorry, that’s just wrong. Not only did Trump surge ahead in Republican polls by flaming racial fires – not only did conservative media outlets from Fox to Drudge to the Breitbart sites indulge the birthers – but so also did every Republican candidate who said, “I take the president at his word.” Birthers did not doubt the president’s “word.” They were doubting the official records of the state of Hawaii. It’s like answering a 9/11 conspiracist by saying, “I take the 9/11 families at their word that they lost their loved ones.”

Yet even now, the racialist aspect of the anti-Obama movement has not subsided. Trump has moved from the birth certificate to questioning the president’s academic qualifications for the Harvard Law School. Trump himself was a troubled student (at one point he attended a military school) who nonetheless gained admission to Wharton. His father’s wealth and business success cannot have hurt with that application. Yet he feels himself qualified to pronounce on who is and who is not smart enough to attend Harvard Law. Barack Obama graduated magna cum laude. (And to anticipate a new line of attack – yes, Harvard Law School exams were blind-graded.) He was elected editor of the law review. And his classmates, left and right, universally admired his abilities.

I wish it were otherwise, but it does seem that these racialized attacks on Obama have exacted a toll on him. But they also have exacted a toll on the opposition to Obama. The too-faint repudiation of birtherism by regular Republicans has shaped not only the Obama brand, but also the Republican brand. It was not only white people who heard the implied message about who counts and who does not count as a “real American.”

I write as an opponent of virtually every major and minor action of this administration. Republicans should be fighting this president on policy, not winking at those who use race as a weapon. It’s worth recalling the generous words of John McCain on election night 2008:

[T]hough we have come a long way from the old injustices that once stained our nation’s reputation and denied some Americans the full blessings of American citizenship, the memory of them still had the power to wound. A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt’s invitation of Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House was taken as an outrage in many quarters. America today is a world away from the cruel and frightful bigotry of that time. There is no better evidence of this than the election of an African-American to the presidency of the United States. Let there be no reason now for any American to fail to cherish their citizenship in this, the greatest nation on Earth.

And those who imagine that they somehow enhance the value of that citizenship by belittling the American-ness of their president – they not only disgrace the politics they uphold, but they do damage that will not soon be forgotten by the voters a revived Republicanism must win.


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349 Comments so far ↓

  • CentristNYer

    Carney // Apr 27, 2011 at 11:55 am

    If Obama were a white man named Smith and there had been any doubt whatsoever about his birthplace and legitimacy, there would have been just as much talk…

    That’s not supported by any evidence. To the contrary, even though there were legitimate questions about whether McCain, who was born in Panama, would be eligible, this issue never gained any traction in the media and little debate even in the blogosphere. It was never taken up as a serious talking point among Democrats and disappeared as quickly as it arose, while sinister speculation about Obama’s birth — which was confirmed long ago in Hawaii — raged on.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    nwahs, getting elected President means you automatically pass top security clearance. Yeesh. The U.S. classification system is currently established under Executive Order 13292. You know, executive as in President. Any President can change the classification system through executive order.

    • nwahs

      “nwahs, getting elected President means you automatically pass top security clearance. Yeesh. The U.S. classification system is currently established under Executive Order 13292. You know, executive as in President. Any President can change the classification system through executive order.”

      There is no mechanism in place for the FBI or CIA to vet potential presidential candidates. It would be unconstitutional.

      • llbroo49

        Okay NWAHS,

        Heres how it works. Candidate tells his party leadership that he is considering running for President. Party leader then makes contact with FBI, Secret Service, and private investigator firms. Potential candidate completes and signs SF86. Investigation is initiated and candidate is interviewd, along with friends, family, former classmates, and employers. If uestionable issues arise Party leader will then infom potential candidate that they can’t support or endorse him/her because of possible damage to the party if said candidate were to be nominated. With a name like Barack Hussein Obama, you can rest assured that EVERYBODY (including members of both the Democratic party that would run against him AND Republican candidates looking for ways to derail a possible threat) looked for possible issues. And keep in mind this is all after 9/11.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if investigators reported on John Edwards affair and child and informed him it would not only be in his best interest to withdraw from the presidential race BUT to not even consider being selected for Vice-president.

        Now suppossing in some way the candidate was elected and information was found that would make said President Constitutionaly unable to serve he would be forced to resign (possibly facing criminal charges for lying on a Government Form) and the VP would become the new President.

        Your theory would mean ALL of our investigative agencies and ALL of the presidential candidates from 2008, along with BOTH political parties decided Obama was so superior to John McCain that they were willing to void the Constitution.

  • llbroo49

    Example of how Trump helped Birthers:

    Son: Dad, I don’t think the Electric Company will cut off my lights if I don’t pay the bill despite what they say.

    Dad: I think you are right. Your point has merits. I’ll confront the electric company for you.

    30 Days later:

    Son: Thanks Dad. It looks like the electric company DID cut my lights off!

  • Russnet

    Nomad13 writes:

    “But again, I use reason in my arguments, Russnet and nhthinker are resorting to emotion, because of course this all a ploy to diminish their standing. Can’t sway the ignorant, unfortunately. The uneducated maybe, but not the ignorant.”

    Are you serious?? This is so emblematic of what’s wrong with many on the left, IMHO. “We are smarter than you, we use reason, you don’t, you must listen to us, we know what’s best.” Please.

    • Elvis Elvisberg

      I see that Nomad13′s post made you feel very upset.

      But I don’t see you responding to his argument by making a countering, reasoned, fact-based argument.

      Two points to Nomad13.

      • Russnet

        OK, here’s the other paragraphs of Nomad13′s erudite commentary:

        “I agree Bush Jr. got a lot of hateful comments, and they started early in his presidency with the whole Supreme Court voter hanging chad debacle. Which to me seems a tad bit more of a legitimate gripe than ‘he’s a Kenyan’, even though his mother is American. And then continuing on, you cannot say that the birther movement was a minority when every single one of the GOP presidential possibilities outside of Huckabee would not say that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Democrats didn’t spread Birtherism, birthers did. How can you look at a tweet from Palin winking at the subject, or Trump conducting interviews ad nauseum, and then say that the liberals are the one spreading the taint? I NEVER SAID THAT. THIS IS DICTA. I HAVE NO RESPONSE FOR. MY POINT WAS HOW THE EXTREMISTS ON BOTH SIDES BRING DOWN THE DEBATE.

        The racial aspect to me rings clear when you look at the fact that McCain actually WAS NOT born in the US. So if having an American parent is not enough to qualify you for natural born citzenship, and he wasn’t born on American soil, how was he more qualified (in this aspect) than Obama? And how was there not only no outrage about how close this potential alien was, but the Senate passed a unanimous resolution allowing him to run?”

        I’m trying to be smart here, forgive me if I’m not. McCain was a dependent of a military father (both father and grandfather were CINCPAC). I’m not suggesting that’s any more of a sentimental reason for inquiring as to citizenship – in fact I never brought the issue of McCain’s citizenship up – but it is law.

        Most of what Nomad wrote was dicta that didn’t really address any of my prior comments, so I didn’t realize I was getting into fact-checking and a battle over “reason” with him. From that, I’m “ignorant” (Nomad) and an “asshole” (TerryF). (You people are lovely.) The name calling doesn’t bother me, what bothers me is a holier-than-thou attitude accompanied by personal insults. Liberals are good at that.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    TRS, remember nhthinker stating the reason Obama wasn’t releasing it was because it had some bad information in it, such as that he was a Muslim or that he was illegitimate? Even after I pointed out that there were no such listings on it he still found other bizarre reasonings, that Baracks fathers name was not listed because the marriage was illegal due to Barack Obama Sr. having been married in Kenya previously, none of which the state of Hawaii would have known about or even cared.

    And now we have another poster stating that Ann Dunham was 17 at the time and that the birth certificate proves it which is somehow now a revelation, but everyone had already known that, they knew her birthdate and Obama’s birthdate and everyone can do basic math.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    by the way, Trump claimed his researchers had found surprising evidence in Hawaii. I demand to know what that surprising evidence is. He made that claim that he would release the information in due time so lets hold Trump to his word.

    And man, that clown is sucking up all the oxygen from all the other candidates. Keep it up Trump, he is the best friend Obama ever had. If it not for his egomania I would think he was playing the role of perfect foil for Obama and that deep down he wants Obama to win, but Trump is for Trump only.

    • PracticalGirl

      Donald Trump is a puke whose 15 minutes are up.

      I bet he’s crapping his pants. Who the hell is going to pay outrageous ad rates for his last reality show episode now? The man has just publicly proven himself to be without credibility and either easily duped (like the rest of the Tea Party pols) or an out-and-out- inflammatory liar- or both.

      So much for him competing with Oprah for the largest ad prices ever paid for final episodes. Good bye Donald. You’re not even fired, just marginalized.

  • PracticalGirl

    jg:

    think what a brilliant move it was if he never believed in birtherism, i personally don’t think he did.

    Then you, personally, are supportive of a propaganda artist who will say anything (even if he doesn’t believe it) to gain traction with Americans? Every other thing, then, that you are projecting onto Trump at this point (like his wonderful trade positions-gag) could very well be just more bullshit he’s laying on the trail of personal gain-whatever his motives. The man is devoid of any real central driving principles except what’s good for The Donald is good for The Donald.

    I understand you’re upset with President Obama, but you’ve fallen into a deep hole with your support of a guy who you ADMIT could very well just be wagging the dog while inflaming the ignorant masses. When that’s what you start with, where else can you go but down in the dirt? And this is the sort of person you want as a leader? You might as well support Sarah Palin.

  • Deep South Populist

    Well, it’s about time.

    Barack Obama is a disgrace for allowing this matter to linger.

    He could have done this two and a half years ago.

    He withheld the document when he felt it was helping him and released it when it started hurting him. It was pure politics all along.

    • TerryF98

      Yep, when Racists like you are shooting themselves in the foot just keep out of it. It’s the Presidents fault that you were to damn stupid to believe total bullshit, and were far too ignorant to believe what was in front of your face all the time. Asshole

    • PracticalGirl

      It was pure politics all along

      Yep, and pretty shocking from a politician. :) Face it. President Obama was able to bring out the naked, crazy face of every last dork who fell for this conspiracy. The egg isn’t on his face. It’s on every single nutbag who fell victim to something that not even Art Bell or Alex Jones could have dreamed up.

      Obama, 1
      Nutbags, 0

      • SqueekyFromm

        BS!!! Obama, and Obama alone had the ability to resolve this issue for 3 years. But, he kept it alive.

        What is it with the “Masochistic Wing of the GOP” that wants to feel guilt for Obama’s misdeeds???

        If they want a spanking, then just MAN UP!!! Go hire a Dominatrix and pay for it. Don’t use the GOP for your flagellation kicks.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        • PracticalGirl

          Squeaky Girl Reporter,

          Obama certainly was in the driver’s seat the entire time, and I get that that chaps your ass. But you’re wrong when you assert that he, and he alone, had the ability to stop the craziness. The rock-stupid conspiracy nuts of the country (including many major GOP elected officials) had not just the ability to do this but an obligation to use logic and reason to stop themselves and accept what was in front of them.

          I’m sorry that you seem shocked that there’s a large contingent within the GOP that has nothing better to offer the country but conspiracy theories, but I’m glad that you seem o be waking up to the fact.

        • SqueekyFromm

          The only “conspiracy” was between Obama and the Obotski who spent 3 years trying to keep this issue alive, as if what was just coughed up is some kind Magical Mystical Document.

          WhattaBunchaCrap. This was a $10 Birth Certificate Question, and it took The Annointed One three years to resolve it.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

        • Rob_654

          Sorry – it was never Obama’s issue to resolve – he released the document that is the legal form in the state of Hawaii long ago. It’s you Birthers that did not believe it, that did not believe all of the other evidence and kept the story alive and now look like damn fools.

          Obama had no reason to “comply” with the desires of the Birthers and do everything they demanded.

          Face it – you bought the Birther Conspiracy Theory – You preached it – you lived it – and now you look like a damn fool and are burned.

          Lashing out to blame everyone else is, unfortunately typical behavior for many people who can’t just say “Looks like I was wrong” and then deal with the fact that you got lead down a path by people who had a political agenda and you bought the story – hook, line and sinker.

          Maybe this will help to re-evaluate other things you believe from a fresh perspective.

    • trk113

      What sane person could ever have imagined that it would still be an issue today in spite of all of the evidence produced so far? We have had short forms, published birth announcements…from two separate papers, statements from the Hawaiian governor, a Republican governor, yet people still needed to believe he was somehow Kenyan. And watch, even after this release, people will still try to question whether or not he’s a citizen.

      I never would have guessed that this stupid issue would have lasted so long and kept the traction it has maintained in so many quarters. I am sure that Obama is more baffled by it than I am.

  • Deep South Populist

    Barack Obama isn’t the victim here. He played games on purpose for two and half years and finally ran into someone he couldn’t push around and that his hacks in the media couldn’t silence or ignore.

    • Rob_654

      Its called Politics and Obama just slammed the Birther crowd back to the Stoneage. The Republicans and Birther have been playing the politics game on this issue from the start – the short form is the legal form in Hawaii but they refused to believe it, then they refused to believe the birth announcement which only the state of Hawaii can post in newspapers, and all of the other evidence.

      IMHO, there are plenty of Birthers out their right now who are starting to realize that they got played by a black guy and they just can’t believe that a black guy not only went to Harvard Law School while they toil in their meaningless jobs, and then went on to become President of the United States when they can’t even get a promotion to Middle Management and now they are whining that “Obama played politics” – well of course he played Politics with this – and the Birthers went along with it and now they just got slammed.

      Game – Set – Match to Obama on this topic :-)

    • TerryF98

      He produced the “official” document proving his birth 2.5 years ago. That you would not believe it to be valid is YOUR problem , asshole.

    • PracticalGirl

      Barack Obama isn’t the victim here

      You betcha. And it’s awfully hard to think of the dumb asses as victims, either. You know, the ones who refused to believe not just the President but the Hawaiian and Federal Government that the proof was there.

    • ram6968

      does barak obama have toes?? has anyone ever seem his toes?? the people have a right to know!!! ……..give it a rest and stop making yourself a bigger fool (if that’s possible)

  • nwahs

    “llbroo49 // Apr 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    nwahs // Apr 27, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    You know, I can make a wordpress document (from which you qouted) a whole lot faster than a birth certificate. If you give me 30 minutes, I will make-up one and provide you a link to support what I believe.”

    Well you are just plain wrong. Let me give you a civics lesson. In this country we have a separation of powers. You might remember this fact coming up when the FBI raided William Jefferson’s congressional office during a corruption investigation. The FBI can not vet candidates. Its unconstitutional and a violation of the separation of powers.

    But this is the point I wanted to make. You have a lot of people who believe Obama had to have been born in the United States, and if he wasn’t, the CIA or FBI would have interceded. Well they are just as wrong as the birthers. That would NOT have happened as it would be unconstitutional.

    Now you care to link to the mechanism that allows the FBI or CIA vet a presidential candidate or prevent one from running?

    • llbroo49

      Again you are confusing the facts. You are correct that the FBI cannot randomly conduct a background check on an individual. HOWEVER, a potential candidates completes and signs an SF86 voluntarily authorizing the Government to conduct said background check. Please see my post from 1:23PM.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “Barack Obama is a disgrace for allowing this matter to linger.”

    Actually, the people who allowed the matter to linger are those who called him and the state of Hawai’i liars, and revealed their contempt for the Constitution at the same time.

    Barack Obama is just a politician. And a pretty smart one, at that.

    Just consider yourself lucky that he didn’t pull it out in the middle of the first presidential debate. I would have paid money to see that.

    • SqueekyFromm

      Smart??? No, how about SLIMY. Obama got caught. Like I wrote:

      Because what does a politically smart person do when their opponent has his hands in the Cookie Jar of Divisiveness all the way up to his armpits??? The politically savvy person CLOSES THE LID!!! He slams it shut and lets his opponent twist and shout as he tries to get his arm out. That way, everybody sees what the person is up to.

      President Obama has given speeches about divisiveness, and transparency, and how we all need to put aside our political differences for the good of the country. Yet, for over three years Obama has grossly and blatantly refused to practice what he preaches. ”

      Obama finally said UNCLE. I am proud to have played my part.

      Squeeky Fromm
      Girl Reporter

  • nhthinker

    My guess is Trump in three weeks is going to decide NOT to run.

    But the reason he will give will cause a huge uproar.

    He will say as much as he wants to be president: He has assessed the Constitution and believes he is not qualified as a natural born citizen due to the lack of American citizenship of both of his parents at the time of his birth.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    DSP, he fulfilled the obligations as set out by the Constitution, he release the LEGAL birth certificate years ago. There is something called the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. Essentially you have chosen not to believe the state of Hawaii, calling the entire state liars and you are angry that you were not pandered to?

    Could it possibly be that Obama was of no mind to pander to bigots and racists? The only reason he gave in now was because an egomaniacal wannabe candidate was harping on this endlessly, before it was nothing but stupid background noise.

    There is absolutely nothing on the long form that makes it in the slightest bit remarkable. It is not even the LEGAL document from Hawaii, it is trivia.

    Shame on people who screamed about trivia. Trump owes America an apology. He recently claimed he had surprising evidence that led him to believe there was no birth certificate, so he was LYING.

  • wileedog

    Watching the Birthers somehow try to claim victory on this is hilarious.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    nhthinker, now that is hilarious. Even if Trump filled your wildest dreams and did this, Trump has no credibility. He is no Constitutional scholar, his opinion on his own validity to run is irrelevant, he meets the Constitutional requirements whether or not he himself agrees that he does. But the fact that you are crazy enough to believe that Trump will publicly say he is not worthy of being President is what is funniest of all. Trump believes he should be God, being President is a major step down for him.

  • llbroo49

    “Deep South Populist // Apr 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Barack Obama isn’t the victim here. He played games on purpose for two and half years and finally ran into someone he couldn’t push around and that his hacks in the media couldn’t silence or ignore.”

    So the issue of his qualifications based on citizenship are now mute. Does this mean that now you will criticize remaining birthers for not accepting the “long form”?

    • nhthinker

      “So the issue of his qualifications based on citizenship are now mute.”

      Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth.
      It’s the lead story everywhere today.

  • jg bennet

    practical

    i think he lead when every other gop leader was afraid to and yep it benefitted him. he loudly addressed & solved the problem when the others wanted to sweep it under the rug.

    propaganda is what created the birther issue that is for sure and it came from the democrats not the right wing. trump just lead the way to end the left wing hillary created propaganda.

    i think he did a good thing actually.

    • PracticalGirl

      There. Was. No. Problem.Ever. Except with the nuts who couldn’t-wouldn’t-accept truth and reason.

  • nwahs

    Let me explain to the believers in shadow government how it would have worked if Obama had been born outside of the United States. It would be a qualification issue – an overblown residency issue. It would be up to other candidates to have him disqualified in court. No shadow government steps up and urges him to step down. Its a qualification issue, not a security issue. After he’s elected, its moot until the next election.

    • llbroo49

      Wrong again. If he was not qualified according to the Constituion he would be impeached with BOTH parties voting in favor. He would then be forced to resign by his OWN party.

      And really- even after the new relase of his BC you are stating “Obama had been born outside of the United States”?

      Now you’re just giving Arnold Schwazenneger false hope.

  • nhthinker

    Donald may even think to ask the Supreme Court if he qualifies… before he throws his hat in.

  • Slide

    ahhh….. nothinker, this must be a sad day for you. You invested so much in your pathetic birther nonsense and now you have been proven wrong.. .YET AGAIN.

    But wait, didn’t you once argue that EVEN if Obama were born in the USA he was still not elligible to be president? Yes, I do recall that. Some incredibly convoluted logic (having nothing to do with him being a black man of course) brought you to that conclusion. Do you stand by that as well? I’m just curious to see just how wacky you are.

  • dafyd

    DSP…..”Barack Obama is a disgrace for allowing this matter to linger.”
    Lets pretend this stupid statement is true or even makes sense. What Trump and others are doing does not bother you?

    According to you POls, the media and regular people could be opportunistic assholes, they just have to be republicans. Call out all the assholes, not just the ones you disagree with.

    One LAST TIME he DID release it.

  • Deep South Populist

    As far as the race angle goes, the only reason Barack Obama got away with not releasing the long form for so long is that he is a Black leftist.

    Can you some of you just be honest for once in your life? For God’s sake, quit playing your stupid, moronic race card that no cares about anyway but you.

    This matter has never been about race. It has been about principle.

    If all of the facts of Barack Obama’s life were the same but Barack Obama was elected president holding Clarence Thomas’s political views, the lead story in the mainstream media every night would have been “President Obama has not yet produced his long form.”

    And everyone here knows it, though I doubt anyone here on the pro-Obama side will ever admit it.

    I sure will miss these Birther discussions.

    Everyone on all sides of this issue loves arguing about this stuff.

    It’s why every Birther thread lately gets 100+ comments while every other thread gets 5 -10.

    • TerryF98

      Right,

      The “principle” is never ask a white President for his birth certificate but when a black man comes in at no 44 suddenly he has to jump to your command. Yea race has nothing to do with it. Asshole.

  • wileedog

    “propaganda is what created the birther issue that is for sure and it came from the democrats not the right wing.”

    Wait, what?

  • Slide

    DSP statement #1: “As far as the race angle goes, the only reason Barack Obama got away with not releasing the long form for so long is that he is a Black leftist.

    DSP statement #2: “For God’s sake, quit playing your stupid, moronic race card that no cares about anyway but you.”

    Is there any wonder why the South lost the war?

    • Deep South Populist

      Wow, Copernicus, you really turned the tables on me there.

      • TerryF98

        You are so obviously a racist and a particularly dumb one at that, so proving it is pretty easy.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    “he loudly addressed & solved the problem” What problem??? Obama released his legal birth certificate years ago, HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII, this is now undeniable (except to the birthers who are claiming it is fake) the state of Hawaii certified he was, hence there was NO problem except that Trump is a total jackass.

    Slide, according to nhthinker, Obama is not an American because his father was a citizen of Kenya which meant Obama had dual citizenship (even though he didn’t since he never registered in Kenya) which meant he had dual loyalties and hence was disqualified. This has absolutely ZERO Constitutional standing

    Nhthinker should try reading up on someone by the name of James Madison, you know, the guy who wrote the Constitution:

    Many websites who ‘argue’ that Obama is not a natural born citizen, argue that because he was born to a non citizen father, he could never be a natural born citizen. To support their position the cite Vattel while ignoring Common Law expert Blackstone. We learn little from the debates at the Constitutional Convention itself but we do learn, after the fact, how participants of the Constitutional Convention interpreted the clause ‘natural born’.

    James Madison wrote in 1789

    It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States

    Source: James Madison 22 May 1789 Papers 12:179–82

    Madison clearly supports the concept of Jus Soli, the birth place, not Vattel’s interpretation.

    • Slide

      Frumplestiltskin I appreciate the background but it is all irrelevant. The nothinkers of the world are not interested. They just hate Obama and can not deal with the fact that a black man resides in the White House. It kills them. He has to be illegitimate. Not actually born in Hawaii perhaps or ot a “natural born” citizen. It must be some sort of “con”. Something, ANYTHING. He couldn’t possible have earned being selected for the Harvard Law Review on his merits. He is a NEGRO after all. Can’t have that.

      They disgust me and should disgust every rational conservative. There are a few of them left aren’t there? Oh, and on that subject and before I forget, kudos for David for laying it out as it is.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    and I noticed this from another poster just a few weeks ago, one who was absolutely positive Obama was not born in Hawaii:
    Danae // Apr 7, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    Remember you said that publicly when the truth really gets out.
    Its coming, like a freight train coming out of the mountain passes.

    I noticed that nut never came back. Boy, let me say that freight train of truth sure came down hard on us. It proved exactly what was said all along, that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    • SqueekyFromm

      Frumple:

      The freight train is just getting up to speed. Because NOW, my KISS Matrix kicks into overdrive. WHY did it take Obama, the World’s Smartest President, THREE YEARS to cough up this innocuous document, and resolve this???

      If it took Obama 3 years to solve a $10 Birth certificate problem, then how long will it take him to fix a $15 Trillion economy???

      BTW (Which means By The Way) Here is the NEW and UPDATED KISS Matrix:

      1. KICKS. Obama is getting his Kicks from all the attention.
      2. IGNORANT. Obama is too ignorant to think of the simple answer.
      3. SNOBBY. Obama thinks Americans are too stupid to believe the REAL THING!
      4. SLIMY. Obama thinks it is OK to make some Americans look crazy if it gets him votes.

      Squeeky Fromm
      Girl Reporter

      • llbroo49

        You can apply your same matrix for Trump

        1. KICKS. Trump is getting his Kicks from all the attention.
        2. IGNORANT. Trump is too ignorant to think of the simple answer.
        3. SNOBBY. Trump thinks Americans are too stupid to believe the REAL THING!
        4. SLIMY. Trump thinks it is OK to make some Americans look crazy if it gets him votes.

      • llbroo49

        Or Palin re: Death Panels

        1. KICKS. Palin is getting her Kicks from all the attention.
        2. IGNORANT. Palin is too ignorant to think of the simple answer.
        3. SNOBBY. Palin thinks Americans are too stupid to believe the REAL THING!
        4. SLIMY. Palin thinks it is OK to make some Americans look crazy if it gets her votes.

        We can play this game ALL Day!

  • Frumplestiltskin

    hey nhthinker, where is that Reagan original birth certificate, you claimed other Presidents released the information, yet you linked to an “original” Reagan birth certificate dated from 1991, might was well show me Reagan’s cell phone he had as a kid.

    • nhthinker

      The “1991″ date of certification for Reagan’s BC is equivalent to 2011 date of certification for Obama’s BC.
      Those are the dates that they were photocopied, not the dates that the doctors signed them.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    nhthinker, not true, take a look at a birth certificate from 1911, common sense should tell you that they did not have computer generated birth certificates in 1911.
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~schuckwj/2.htm

    The birth certificates looked nothing like the one that you listed in 1991. Now look at your 1991 one. There is no way in hell that is from 1911
    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=500615

    • nhthinker

      Give it up about the Reagan BC. The signature of the doctor that registered the certificate is clearly visible with a 1949 signature. The BC says “original” at the top of it.

      Are you ready to concede that I didn’t lie regarding the issue of whether modern presidents released their BCs? Let me guess… no.

      Or are you going to give us some inane reason? Probably.

  • CentristNYer

    SqueekyFromm // Apr 27, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    WHY did it take Obama, the World’s Smartest President, THREE YEARS to cough up this innocuous document, and resolve this???

    Your premise is faulty. The matter was resolved years ago.

    • SqueekyFromm

      Uh, not according to the White House:

      http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/27/remarks-president

      Squeeky Fromm
      Girl Reporter

      • CentristNYer

        The matter was resolved for anyone who cared to hear the answer. For the mentally deranged, the racist and those looking to make a buck off the “controversy,” however, not so much.

        • SqueekyFromm

          Funny, but I don’t think you are deranged for believing the COLB. I just think you are too trusting. But why do YOU need to think anybody who disagrees with you is deranged or something???

          Sounds like you have “control” issues. Do you rearrange your furniture much???

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

        • PracticalGirl

          Squeaky, you’re sniping at arguably the most even, consistent poster on this Forum. Silly…

          The better question to ask is why was it so easy for the Birthers and all the other nuts out there to believe that, in 1961, an interracial young couple with no connections could have affected the sort of fraud they accused Obama’s parents of? Why was it so easy for them to believe that US officials participated in the fraud decades ago when first issuing Obama’s passport? Why was it so easy, even logical, for them to assume that Obama (as President) would have gotten a pass from the most intense national security check an American can go through?

          Nasty, partisan paranoia, not healthy questioning, is the basis for all of this. It’s not only unbecoming, it leads to wrinkles. Ever see Jan Brewer? Come towards the light. Politically, think what you will. But for your own health, reject stupid every chance you get.

        • CentristNYer

          SqueekyFromm // Apr 27, 2011 at 3:14 pm

          “…why do YOU need to think anybody who disagrees with you is deranged or something???”

          Sorry to break the news to you, but it’s only people who refuse to acknowledge facts that are right in front of their faces that I think are deranged.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    honestly nhtinker, look at the language on your “original”
    Certification of vital record
    from
    Department of Public Health Division of Vital records.

    In 1917 A new administrative code converts the State Board of Health into two departments, one devoted to public health and the other to handle matters related to licensing of physicians and other medical professions.

  • politicalfan

    “they not only disgrace the politics they uphold, but they do damage that will not soon be forgotten by the voters”

    So true! Palin chimes in and proves yet another reason why should she never be considered for political office. Why Mr. Trump? Why? Sad day and sad times when debate leaves the room for the demagogue squad.

  • llbroo49

    1. KICKS. SqueekyFromm is getting her Kicks from all the attention.
    2. IGNORANT. SqueekyFromm is too ignorant to think of the simple answer.
    3. SNOBBY. SqueekyFromm thinks Americans are too stupid to believe the REAL THING!
    4. SLIMY. SqueekyFromm thinks it is OK to make some Americans look crazy if it gets her hits on her blog.

  • dave2

    For those of you who think this was resolved with the old COLB, it might have been for you, but the FACTS are those documents were issued by the state if Hawaii to foreign-born babies…

    Maya Soetoro has one from Hawaii, being born in Indonesia, and even Dr. Sun Yat-Sen father of “modern” China, born in China, had one from the state of Hawaii. Those issues concerned me…

    I only wanted to see one with a doctor’s signature…and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with racism…I’m even married to a mixed race woman.

    Now I am satisfied. Period. No apology…just a simple: WHAT TOOK SO DAMN LONG?

    Seriously…was THAT so hard? A quick phone call is all it took…geeez!

    Oh, I forgot…it’s Barack Obama. He has to mull everything over in his mind (3 yrs. though?) until he’s finally forced into a corner and he’s actually forced to make a decision.

    Voting “present” is much harder when you’re the President…

    • llbroo49

      dave2 // Apr 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm

      Well at least now you can feel comfortable voting for him in 2012 now that this issue has been resolved.

    • TerryF98

      Why should the black man jump to YOUR command? Why is he the only President out of 44 who has to prove who he is and where he was born?

      You should apologize, the fact you don’t and instead play the victim is pathetic.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    1877
    The first State Board of HealthThe State Board of Health is organized and for the first time public health work is assigned as a permanent function of state government. The board is given responsibility for regulating the practice of medicine and promoting sanitary and hygienic activities to control and prevent disease. Dr. John H. Rauch of Chicago, the highest ranking medical director on Gen. Ulysses S. Grant’s staff in the Army of Tennessee and sanitary superintendent for the Chicago Board of Health, is elected the first board president. For its first two years of operation, the board receives an appropriation of $5,000.

    It was known as the State Board of Public Health until 1917

    Here is information directly from Illinois itself:
    A number of resources are available for individuals doing genealogical research using vital records filed in the state of Illinois. Births and deaths before January 1, 1916 and marriages before January 1, 1962 are recorded only in the office of the county clerk where the event occurred. Most county clerks have indexes to the records that are prior to 1916 that are available for the purpose of genealogical research.( List of county vital records Web sites or county clerk addresses ) These indexes generally provide the name, date and place of occurrence and are located in county courthouses located throughout the state. Although self-service access to the indexes is generally permitted, the law limits physical access to the individual records to the clerk’s staff. When you locate a record from the index, it will be necessary for the clerk to pull the record for you once you have paid the appropriate search fee. Please check with the county clerk for fees and policies on reviewing indexes.

  • SqueekyFromm

    OH WAIT!!! Is Obama headed to jail now???

    Wasn’t one of the Obotski lies that “Poor Obama can’t release a long form because IT IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!”

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  • Frumplestiltskin

    So nhthinker, you presented a birth certificate from a Department that did not even exist as named from a Division which did not do what you say it did. Honestly, why would you link to such a bogus thing?

    So will you apologize for being so wrong? Look, that birth certificate that you linked to was valid, but it wasn’t from when Reagan was born, it couldn’t have been, that simply did not exist in that fashion at that time.
    That is not the original. It has a date of 1942, so it’s a record created 31 years later.

    It’s also a copy from photo records, reprinted in 1991.

    And the certification is blank.

    So where’s the 1911 original?

  • tom78212

    No white male president has ever had to “prove” his birth place. BTW (and, squeakyf, we all know what that means) John McCain was born in Panama. Military hospital but still Panama. Any child born of American parent(s) in a foreign country gets a birth certificate from the American embassy. If the birthers really wanted to find one from the Am Embassy in Kenya, it wouldn’t be difficult to do. This entire brouhaha has been based on race – pure and simple bigotry. I didn’t vote for Obama and am unlikely to vote for him in 2012 – nor was there or is there a Republican I will vote for. But this whole birth certificate “thang” has been just too silly for words… even the words I’m wasting on it here. STFUA!!! And if you don’t know what that means, ask your kids.

  • llbroo49

    So the new enlightened Birther arguement is yeah, he told us he was born in Hawaii 2.5 years ago on the short form and now he has released the long form (that confirms what he told us the first time), but why did he take so long?

    It boggles my mind how hard it is for some people to admit they were wrong.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    “A quick phone call is all it took…geeez!”

    Actually, no. An attorney for Barack Obama flew to Hawaii and got it and brought it back to the White House. Now I don’t know who paid for it but I am sure if it was the government birthers will scream about that, the birthers should pay for it.

    And squeeky, Obama or his family is the only people that the record can be released to, and no it does not take a phone call, a phone call only gets you the computerized copy.

    There was zero reason for him to get the original out of the vault, as it is an original it should have stayed there as it is a vital record, lets say the plane crashed with that origina on board (it is a possibility) then it would have been lost forever and birthers would have screamed that Obama made the plane crash. Even if it is the slightest of chances why risk screwing around with vital records?

    • dave2

      You’re right..it was a letter from him and a letter from his attorney requesting it…STILL could have been done YEARS ago…or even before a Lt.Col. had to be sent to federal prison about it!

      But you’re wrong about him getting th original…he got two COPIES. The original is still in Hawaii.

  • think4yourself

    I think David’s article is right on point. Instead of serious policy conversations, all the oxygen is taken up by this issue and it doesn’t benefit conservatives. The party is narrower, whiter and older than ever at a time when the country is becoming increasingly more diverse.

    What happens when a second generation Latino GOP candidate runs for office, either the Presidency or another position? Won’t they think twice about what happens in the primary when their opponents attempt to make them appear as illegal by association “well he may be here legally, I guess I take him at his word about that, but his wife’s 3rd cousin can’t produce a copy of his citizenship papers and don’t you know all those people just want to get a foothold here so they let all their relatives in? I’m not saying it’s so, but you can bet they all want one of their own in the white house.”

    So why did the GOP not repudiate birtherism? Simple, the Tea Party embraced it. After the 2008 election the traditional GOP was pretty despondent. Some Conservative commentators were talking about a generational shift to Democrats and they had no hope in sight because Obama won the Liberals and the moderates. Then along comes the Tea Party who gave hope to the GOP – just be one of us and you’ll win – and they did. So now they are hitched together led by people like Rand Paul (Civil Rights legislation anyone?). The GOP is afraid if they reject birtherism and other extremes of the Tea Party, they’ll be destined to wander in the wilderness.

  • kuri3460

    If Obama eliminated all taxes, ended all three wars with a resounding American victory, and cured cancer, 50% of the Republican party would criticize him for not doing it sooner.

    You can’t argue with crazy.

  • Deep South Populist

    I have never believed he was born anywhere but Hawaii, but I also believe that asking for the long form was hardly an unreasonable request.

    But, now that Obama has released the long form, the Birthers, if they’re smart, need to concede defeat and move on rather than dig in even deeper.

  • chephren

    Just watched Obama’s televised comments about the release of his long-form birth certificate.

    I have to say, I like the guy. He is a decent, even-handed man who was handed a poisoned chalice by his incompetent predecessor, and has had to deal with undeserved, petty, shrill, idiotic attacks on his character from the marginalized Right as he has attempted to address huge problems.

    He exceeded the requirements of law and electoral custom when his campaign first posted a copy of his Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth on the internet in 2008. That should have been enough to put any questions regarding his birth to rest before they arose. Instead, this official state document became a premise on which cynics and idiots built a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

    The release of the long form original should never have been necessary. Obama was right not to indulge the morons and opportunists who persisted in slandering him. As he said today, the full birth certificate will not end the issue for the minority who hate him deeply.

    History will look back on the Birthers as another example of the mass delusions that have cropped up from time to time over the centuries. People should know better, but insane ideas can be very persistent and attractive.

    • satrap

      Exactly. The crazy thing here is- and I realize the word crazy can be thrown around at every turn- is that this whole episode proves that the copy released by our President three years ago (the electronic modern copy) WAS the birth certificate and he was telling the truth the whole time.

      So it turns out the Birthers WERE the lying connivers. What a surprise.

  • paulflorez

    Can a birther tell me why so much noise was made over President Obama’s citizenship, while John McCain’s eligibility for the presidency didn’t receive as much skepticism even though he was born in Panama and on the day of his birth, he was NOT considered a natural born citizen?

    And can someone tell me, has any other President had to provide their “long form” birth certificate?

    If you ask me, most Americans are going to see this as a huge egg on the face of the birther movement and, by deep association, the Republican Party. First, the issue of whether or not the birther movement is motivated by racism comes up. Can your PROVE that racism isn’t behind the birther movement? No, and so Americans are going to speculate on that and it’s going to hurt the groups and politicians involved. And guess what, the more the birthers squirm trying to defend themselves, the worse they will look. The best thing they can do is say “we were wrong”, sit down, shut up, and hope for a Republican victory in 2012. I doubt that’s what they’ll do though, their egos are too big, and being proved wrong by President Obama hurts not only their credibility but their very egos. Saying “I never doubted his eligibility, I just wanted to see that piece of paper” doesn’t cut it either. You don’t demand someone show you something when you already don’t doubt them.

    Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happened when he cried wolf, and then the people came out and saw he was wrong? He lost credibility, people stopped listening to him and in fact he became despised.

    Now the question is what evil reason did President Obama have for taking so long, and Trump is questioning President Obama’s qualifications for Harvard. Keep crying wolf and see how far it gets you; or be smart, sit down, and SHUT UP.

    • chephren

      I remember reading in 2008 that the McCain campaign had consulted with lawyers to ensure that their candidate was in fact a natural-born citizen under the US constitution.

      McCain clearly anticipated that his birth in a US protectorate might raise attacks from his opponents, or at least questions about his legitimacy as a candidate. This never happened – while Obama, born in a US state of an American mother, has been subject to endless slanders and conspiracy-mongering about his citizenship.

      If the Birthers had a thimble-full of integrity or genuine concern with the requirements of the constitution, they would have asked the same hard questions about the circumstances and location of McCain’s birth that they did of Obama’s.

      Birtherism is nothing more than racism, bigotry and delusion.

  • satrap

    Why do “conservatives” hate the Hawaii Department of Health, Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard University?

    It’s not Obama they’re doubting, it’s those nefarious Marxist, Kenyan, anti-colonialist co-conspirators.

  • John Q

    How did this poisonous and not very subtly racist allegation get such a grip on our conservative movement and our Republican party?

    Now perhaps you can also start wondering how these other fallacies (based on willful ignorance) have come to have a grip on the conservative movement and your Republican party:

    Evolution is a lie
    Global warming is a hoax
    Keynes was wrong

  • Frumplestiltskin

    “I have never believed he was born anywhere but Hawaii, but I also believe that asking for the long form was hardly an unreasonable request. ”

    Yes it was, it is called an original because it means it is Original, it can’t be replaced. God forbid anything happen to it, it should not have been worth the risk that it get lost or destroyed. Look, do I wish the Public records made a photocopy of it when they checked it out in the first place, sure, but would that have been enough? No. Even now a lot of Birthers are saying it is fake (it says African, not negro under BO sr. race, but he was African so I can certainly understand why they wrote African to distinguish him from a Black American who was called Negro)

    And it was unreasonable because it was irrelevant to the Constitution or his qualifications. Only a nut would state that the state of Hawaii was engaged in a massive coverup. They said he was born in Hawaii, he was born in Hawaii. Anything beyond that is a request that is not legally valid.

    • PracticalGirl

      There’s something dry as toast that has really bothered me through this whole thing:

      WHY, in the age of technology, do we continue to have as The One Acceptable Proof a sheet of degradable and combustible paper? I actually do have, in my possession, my original “original” birth certificate. It’s as old as I am and in almost as bad of shape. It’s yellow, frayed and even splitting on a fold that must have been done decades ago. Why do we continue to issue this vital record in a format that doesn’t stand the test of time?

      • satrap

        Plus, you DON’T have your original. You just have an old photocopy. Just like the President of the USA has a photocopy. Kings and peasants all.

        • PracticalGirl

          DAMN IT, now I’ll never be President. Thanks for the “original’ clarity, although mine actually has raised type. Do you think that means I’m secret royalty?

  • indy

    nhbirther and math challenged squeeky didn’t disappoint, did they? They did post in the same thread, though, so I’ll have to update the CRAZY matrix.

  • talkradiosucks.com

    “WHY, in the age of technology, do we continue to have as The One Acceptable Proof a sheet of degradable and combustible paper?”

    Specifically because almost anything digital is very easily faked.