Yep. (*SMILE*)

Plus, thread after thread on the same basic topic.

I’m starting to get bored here. (*SHRUG*)

BILL

“So you just go about your business pretending like Americans don’t wait for care and you’ve contributed anything useful or meaningful to this discussion and I’ll keep posting real life facts and figures so you can ignore those too. ”

Glad to see we’re on the same page. If it makes you feel better to pretend the reason you’re refusing to deal with any of the information this “half wit” is posting is because you’re just so emotionally devastated that “some poster on an internet site” told you to stop being a jackass that you couldn’t possibly interact with them any further until you’ve had several days to heal from the severe psychological trauma that inflicted, you go right ahead. You’re not exactly fooling anyone, but whatever you want to do.

What I want to do on the other hand is keep posting real life information. Like, oh, the US ranking (dead last) in the prevention of health care amenable mortality among industrialized nations… that’s a fun one:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Charts/Testimony/Insurance-Design-Matters-Underinsured-Trends-Health-and-Financial-Risks-and-Principles-for-Reform/Mortality-Amenable-to-Health-Care.aspx

Or the rate of growth of health care costs in nations around the world:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/09/business/econgraphic2.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/09/business/econgraphic3.jpg

Still want to keep telling us all about how the US health care system is the greatest? All ears. Really.

Oh wait… I forgot. You called “time out” so nothing I’m posting counts… darn. If only I had thought of that first.

(*GRIN*)

BTW, can’t that halfwit READ?

I couldn’t help but notice the first word of his Post #40 was “Barker.” Doesn’t he know what “time out” means? (*CHUCKLE*)

Anyway, Rob, off to New Hampshire for the weekend. Out of here by 4:00 p.m. In the meantime if you have any points you’d like to make…

(*SMILE*) (*SHRUG*)

BILL

That’s who I think I’m talking to. But I’m devastated I’m now on “time-out”. I really am. So you just go about your business pretending like Americans don’t wait for care and you’ve contributed anything useful or meaningful to this discussion and I’ll keep posting real life facts and figures so you can ignore those too. Like you just did saying YOU are talking about stats and stats don’t lie. That’s rich. You haven’t provided a single statistic in any post you’ve made in this entire thread. The only two times I even saw you mention statistics were, in fsct, when you said this:

“I’m sure I could easily find and post all sorts of stats regarding waiting times and specific disease outcome stats. I’m not going to though.”

And when you said this:

“And no, I’m not going to go nuts posting this stat and that stat.”

Both REFUSALS to go look up statistics to support your argument. And then you have the nerve to say YOU are “talking stats” and the stats don’t lie? Do you think every single person you’re speaking to here suffers from total long term memory loss and can’t remember anything you did more than an hour earlier so they’ll actually believe that? AND that they CAN’T READ so they won’t just look up and see? What the hell are you even thinking? Is this some kind of poorly thought out joke or something?

The only time you’ve even come NEAR posting ans stats are when you were MAKING THEM UP about Americans having no wait times for medical care… and the one you just made up now about “middle class insured Americans” being “far more likely” to overcome potentially fatal illnesses. And IMAGINARY stats actually do lie barker.

Real ones on the other hand:

http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1

Those show you’re lying (or just monumentally clueless, take your pick). THAT is a systematic review of DOZENS of scientific studies of the comparative outcome of treatment in Canada and the US for everything from cancer, to coronary artery disease, to chronic illnesses to surgical procedures. Canada comes out on top in the clear majority of them.

Quick! Make something else up to save your case!

Yep. (*SMILE*)

Re: Gcomeau // Aug 20, 2009 at 8:11 pm (#36) –

“barker: Don’t be a jackass.”

Who the f–k do you think you’re talking to, you little worm?!

Jeezus… do you really think you’re MAKING your case?

(*SMIRK*)

You’re now in “time out.” Call it “Strike One.” I’ll give you another chance on Monday; till then… you’re “boxed” along with Otto.

Re: Del // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:38 pm (#37) –

“…the “deregulation is best” mentality…”

Perhaps you’ve heard of Fannie Mae. (*CHUCKLE*) How’bout Freddie Mac? Ginny Mae?

Ya know much about the short/mid/long term prospects of Medicaid/Medicare/Social Security…???

Would you consider taxation “regulation?” Do you consider the U.S. Tax code (and the 50 state tax codes) to be examples of… er… under-regulation?

The federal judiciary and 50 state judiciaries…??? You don’t see them as “regulatory bodies” in a sense? (*SHRUG*)

“…conservative power brokers…”

You might wanna re-check the ideological/Party affiliation of America’s top oligarchs. (*WINK*) (*CHUCKLE*)

Oh… and as far as GOVERNMENT itself is concerned (the defacto Power Broker of power brokers)… last time I checked there was this guy name Obama hanging out in the Oval Office and this chick Pelosi (with sidekick Harry Reid) presiding over Capital Hill.

(*SHRUG*)

“What mystifies me is how the richest…”

Depend how you define rich, doesn’t it? Unsustainable deficits… unsupportable long term debt and unfunded future liabilities as far as the eye can see…

(*SHRUG*)

“And Barker, yes I injured my finger. It might sound trivial to you…”

Yes. (*SMIRK*) It sounds trivial to me. Glad we’re on the same page.

Re: Chgok9dad // Aug 21, 2009 at 9:25 am (#38) –

“To Barker13 who snorts a lot.”

(*ROFLMAO*)

(*HIGH FIVE*)

Well at least you have a frigg’n sense of humor, Chgok! Good for you…!!!

“Hiking accident where I fell and landed on my back. The x-rays, physical therapy, medication, and care was quick, responsive, and all covered.”

Glad to hear Canada has enough X-Ray machines! (*WINK*)

“Diagnosed with leukemia, and went into chemotherapy, and have been in remission for 20 years.”

Now THAT’S what I’m talking about, Chgok! And I’m happy that you were diagnosed and treated in a timely manner and have been in remission for 20 years. I hope you’ve beat it for good.

Still… I’m talking stats as well as personal anecdotes; and the stats don’t lie. Middle class insured Americans are far more likely to overcome potentially fatal illnesses than our Canadian peers.

BILL

There appears to be a very deliberate campaign of misinformation about socialized (dare I even use the word on this site) medicine that is being spread by conservatives, who for the sake of ideology seem quite willing to distort, manipulate and lie.

But the underling issue here is not about health care. It is the entire conservative agenda. The recent near economic collapse is at least partially a result of the “deregulation is best” mentality of this agenda. And now, due to government intervention, the economy seems to be recovering under Obama’s guidance. If he is successful in implementing an effective, universal system of health care in the U.S., conservatives are likely to be shut out of power for a very long time. Government health care plans, once implemented in a country, become as institutionalised as state run education. It is seen as much as a right as is the right to a free basic education. In no country has a government health care plan ever been reversed. Conservatives know this, and that is why they are fighting so hard to sabotage effective health care reform.

Though I have no doubt about your ideological sincerity, “Fact Checker,” I believe what the conservative power brokers most want is not to defeat an Obama health care plan. But to weaken it in such away as to make it ineffective and a possible election issue. Either way they win. Obama doesn’t deliver on his promise or the plan is so lame it proves problematic.

“You said: If the government-run insurance plan were adopted whereby non-insured people would be insured, how long would private companies continue to contribute to the health insurance of their employees? Would they not start cutting health plans and force the government to pay? You know the answer as well as I do.”

Yes, I do know the answer. You are absolutely right. That is why a modified version of the Canadian system would work best. Private insurance should only be for secondary coverage, for those aspects of medical care that are not covered by the government system. Employers should not pay for employee health insurance. In Quebec, where I reside, health care is primarily paid for by income tax. As far as choice: Doctors can opt out of the system and go private. Few do. And, patients can go to any doctor they choose, any hospital, go for as many opinions as they want.

What mystifies me is how the richest, most powerful country in the world doesn’t provide universal health coverage for its citizens. Given the amount of GDP spent on health care, the success of universal plans elsewhere, what exactly is your concern? The truth is, political expediency aside, that there is really only one basic issue in this debate. Is decent, health care a right or is it a commodity, with some being able to buy the very best care possible, and others receiving almost third world standards of health care.

And Barker, yes I injured my finger. It might sound trivial to you, though it sounds more like you’ve been watching too much FOX “news.” You jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts. Regardless, I personally didn’t find paying $250 for 3 minutes of a doctor’s time in Philadelphia very trivial.