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	<title>Comments on: Shocker: The Dems are Cheating on Healthcare Costing</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: SFTor1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69575</link>
		<dc:creator>SFTor1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69575</guid>
		<description>People like mi-goper never cease to amaze me. The sheer mindless noise produce by him and the likes of him are nothing but a distraction to progress.

&quot;Obama&#039;s necessary war in Afghanistan...&quot; Amazing.

If he was in my party I would run him out of town on a rail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People like mi-goper never cease to amaze me. The sheer mindless noise produce by him and the likes of him are nothing but a distraction to progress.</p>
<p>&#8220;Obama&#8217;s necessary war in Afghanistan&#8230;&#8221; Amazing.</p>
<p>If he was in my party I would run him out of town on a rail.</p>
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		<title>By: Senator Reid Is Going To Bite The Dust- Again &#124; thelobbyist</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69257</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator Reid Is Going To Bite The Dust- Again &#124; thelobbyist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] given Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid&#8217;s (D-NV) expectations of a victory in the vote. As David Frum and The Heritage Foundation explained, Democrats wanted to pass the bill outside of the final [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] given Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid&#8217;s (D-NV) expectations of a victory in the vote. As David Frum and The Heritage Foundation explained, Democrats wanted to pass the bill outside of the final [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LauraNo</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69160</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraNo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Dems are Cheating on Healthcare Costing

As I&#039;m sure you&#039;re aware, David, it&#039;s politics. It&#039;s how you get things done in Congress. I want to believe the cost control measures are going to happen but it is not politically effective to concentrate on those measures at this time. You should hope they happen, too. I&#039;d like to ask, did you ever have this headline during the Bush years saying &quot;GOP is Cheating on X Costing&quot;? There were many opportunities to write such...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dems are Cheating on Healthcare Costing</p>
<p>As I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware, David, it&#8217;s politics. It&#8217;s how you get things done in Congress. I want to believe the cost control measures are going to happen but it is not politically effective to concentrate on those measures at this time. You should hope they happen, too. I&#8217;d like to ask, did you ever have this headline during the Bush years saying &#8220;GOP is Cheating on X Costing&#8221;? There were many opportunities to write such&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69061</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69061</guid>
		<description>mi-goper:  &lt;blockquote&gt; And someone is truly concerned about them cheating on the numbers for health care? Good God, because of the Democrats, Iran will likely have a fully operational long-range nuke in 2 yrs or less. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hammering away at the cost of health care is a good political tactic.

Because polls show that the skyrocketing cost of health care is one of Americans&#039; top concerns right now.

Not whether Iran gets a long-range nuke in a few years.  Americans care about that too--but it&#039;s a lower priority for them.  Probably because it&#039;s hypothetical (lots of things could prevent Iran from getting a long-range nuke), whereas the skyrocketing cost of health care is a reality that is hitting Americans in their wallets right now.

I&#039;m stunned, absolutely stunned, at the cost of my medical treatment.  Most of it&#039;s being paid for by my medical insurance--which is to say, by the premiums of healthy policyholders like you.  &quot;ottovbs&quot; or &quot;rbottoms&quot; would probably say I&#039;m not worth it--just turn me into Soylent Green.   :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mi-goper:   And someone is truly concerned about them cheating on the numbers for health care? Good God, because of the Democrats, Iran will likely have a fully operational long-range nuke in 2 yrs or less.<br />
Hammering away at the cost of health care is a good political tactic.</p>
<p>Because polls show that the skyrocketing cost of health care is one of Americans&#8217; top concerns right now.</p>
<p>Not whether Iran gets a long-range nuke in a few years.  Americans care about that too&#8211;but it&#8217;s a lower priority for them.  Probably because it&#8217;s hypothetical (lots of things could prevent Iran from getting a long-range nuke), whereas the skyrocketing cost of health care is a reality that is hitting Americans in their wallets right now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m stunned, absolutely stunned, at the cost of my medical treatment.  Most of it&#8217;s being paid for by my medical insurance&#8211;which is to say, by the premiums of healthy policyholders like you.  &#8220;ottovbs&#8221; or &#8220;rbottoms&#8221; would probably say I&#8217;m not worth it&#8211;just turn me into Soylent Green.   <img src='http://www.frumforum.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69051</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69051</guid>
		<description>txanne, we love the new Democrat Underground &amp; Daily Kos talking points for pintsized Democrats:  &quot;when criticized fairly, drag out Gov Palin... then repeat as necessary&quot;.

It sure beats the same-old, same-old talking points for pints you guys had for 8 yrs... &quot;blah, blah, blah... Bash Bush.... blah, blah, blah... Bash Bush... blah, blah, blah... Bash Bush&quot;.

Thanks for making it official you&#039;re a troll in the best traditions of many, many Democrat trolls on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>txanne, we love the new Democrat Underground &amp; Daily Kos talking points for pintsized Democrats:  &#8220;when criticized fairly, drag out Gov Palin&#8230; then repeat as necessary&#8221;.</p>
<p>It sure beats the same-old, same-old talking points for pints you guys had for 8 yrs&#8230; &#8220;blah, blah, blah&#8230; Bash Bush&#8230;. blah, blah, blah&#8230; Bash Bush&#8230; blah, blah, blah&#8230; Bash Bush&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks for making it official you&#8217;re a troll in the best traditions of many, many Democrat trolls on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: txanne</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69048</link>
		<dc:creator>txanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69048</guid>
		<description>Ya better watch out gopher, Sarah might come after ya for revealing the main points of her book before its out. Best go underground!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya better watch out gopher, Sarah might come after ya for revealing the main points of her book before its out. Best go underground!</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69038</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69038</guid>
		<description>Oh... and I left off the most frightening bit: &quot;Jimmeny Cricket Carter is considered an elder statesman again by the WH&quot;.  Ugh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh&#8230; and I left off the most frightening bit: &#8220;Jimmeny Cricket Carter is considered an elder statesman again by the WH&#8221;.  Ugh!</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69037</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69037</guid>
		<description>The Dems are cheating on health care costing??? Say it ain&#039;t so Joe!

Of course they are... just like they lied about getting out of Iraq, focusing in on &amp; doing what&#039;s necessary to win &quot;Obama&#039;s Necessary War&quot; in Afghanistan, not raising taxes, balancing the budget, stopping unemployment at 8%, using the Stimulus Spending Spree money on real, shovel ready projects, repealing DADT, ending the culutre of corruption in Washington, bringing transparency to the process of adopting new programs, building a bipartisan, cooperative spirit, working with all to improve America, etc.


Instead, we have a lying president who is the ultimate Chicago-thug styled partisan roughneck, a divided, harsh political enviroment, staggering deficits, higher unemployment, a longer-than-necessary Obama recession, widespread distruct of govt, corruption and vote fraud at levels last seen when Dem Andrew Jackson was president and a WH waging war on the press, on medicine on conservatives and losing the wars that Bush was winning.

And someone is truly concerned about them cheating on the numbers for health care?  Good God, because of the Democrats, Iran will likely have a fully operational long-range nuke in 2 yrs or less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dems are cheating on health care costing??? Say it ain&#8217;t so Joe!</p>
<p>Of course they are&#8230; just like they lied about getting out of Iraq, focusing in on &amp; doing what&#8217;s necessary to win &#8220;Obama&#8217;s Necessary War&#8221; in Afghanistan, not raising taxes, balancing the budget, stopping unemployment at 8%, using the Stimulus Spending Spree money on real, shovel ready projects, repealing DADT, ending the culutre of corruption in Washington, bringing transparency to the process of adopting new programs, building a bipartisan, cooperative spirit, working with all to improve America, etc.</p>
<p>Instead, we have a lying president who is the ultimate Chicago-thug styled partisan roughneck, a divided, harsh political enviroment, staggering deficits, higher unemployment, a longer-than-necessary Obama recession, widespread distruct of govt, corruption and vote fraud at levels last seen when Dem Andrew Jackson was president and a WH waging war on the press, on medicine on conservatives and losing the wars that Bush was winning.</p>
<p>And someone is truly concerned about them cheating on the numbers for health care?  Good God, because of the Democrats, Iran will likely have a fully operational long-range nuke in 2 yrs or less.</p>
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		<title>By: cmhmd</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69035</link>
		<dc:creator>cmhmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14113#comment-69035</guid>
		<description>OK, assume it is $1.5 trillion over ten years, or 150 billion a year, and we spend $2.5 trillion a year on HC already, so that is very little money in the grand scheme of national economics. So, as Uwe Reinhardt would say, &quot;Go explain to God why you cannot do this. He will laugh at you.&quot;

How  to pay for this? First and best answer: REPEAL THE BUSH TAX CUTS!    
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2009/04/15/no-tea-party-protests-for-teddy-roosevelt-republican-champion-of-the-income-tax.html
 
I&#039;d advise everyone to listen to the EXCELLENT two &quot;This American Life&quot; episodes on HC reform:
http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/10/this-american-life-hc-reform-part-2.html
 
Follow the links, download the MP3&#039;s and you can make audio CDs for your car, or listen on your computer.
 
There are lots of answers about how we cut costs in the long run within the two shows, but I&#039;ll give you a few easy ones:
 
1.) McAllen, TX and EOL Care: 
http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/05/annals-of-medicine-cost-conundrum.html
( That&#039;s actually two, practice variation and EOL care)
 
2.) Prescription co-pays: $10 for a $20 prescription, $30 for a $600 prescription. (Unless you have a coupon from the manufacturer to make the $30 copay $0.00 - listen to the second TAL show.)
 
3.) George Lundberg has a few ideas
 http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-blog-how-to-rein-in-medical.html
 
4.) Uwe Reinhardt has a modest proposal,,, 
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2009/07/24/a-modest-proposal-on-payment-reform/
 
5.) Wendell Potter, too: 
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1920893,00.html
 
6.) Administrative costs: 
http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/07/health-affairs-2-articles-on-cost-of.html
 
Bottom line is, passing the bill is going to be half the battle, implementing reform in a way that is most beneficial to patients at the least cost to us as a society is next up.
 
But, let&#039;s get everyone taken care of first, and avoid the 18K to 45K people dying due to lack of access to health care and THEN we&#039;ll deal with reducing costs. Turns out, if you read the Gawande article, they may be by doing the exact same things.
 
Cheers,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, assume it is $1.5 trillion over ten years, or 150 billion a year, and we spend $2.5 trillion a year on HC already, so that is very little money in the grand scheme of national economics. So, as Uwe Reinhardt would say, &#8220;Go explain to God why you cannot do this. He will laugh at you.&#8221;</p>
<p>How  to pay for this? First and best answer: REPEAL THE BUSH TAX CUTS!<br />
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2009/04/15/no-tea-party-protests-for-teddy-roosevelt-republican-champion-of-the-income-tax.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2009/04/15/no-tea-party-protests-for-teddy-roosevelt-republican-champion-of-the-income-tax.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d advise everyone to listen to the EXCELLENT two &#8220;This American Life&#8221; episodes on HC reform:<br />
<a href="http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/10/this-american-life-hc-reform-part-2.html" rel="nofollow">http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/10/this-american-life-hc-reform-part-2.html</a></p>
<p>Follow the links, download the MP3&#8217;s and you can make audio CDs for your car, or listen on your computer.</p>
<p>There are lots of answers about how we cut costs in the long run within the two shows, but I&#8217;ll give you a few easy ones:</p>
<p>1.) McAllen, TX and EOL Care:<br />
<a href="http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/05/annals-of-medicine-cost-conundrum.html" rel="nofollow">http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/05/annals-of-medicine-cost-conundrum.html</a><br />
( That&#8217;s actually two, practice variation and EOL care)</p>
<p>2.) Prescription co-pays: $10 for a $20 prescription, $30 for a $600 prescription. (Unless you have a coupon from the manufacturer to make the $30 copay $0.00 &#8211; listen to the second TAL show.)</p>
<p>3.) George Lundberg has a few ideas<br />
 <a href="http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-blog-how-to-rein-in-medical.html" rel="nofollow">http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-blog-how-to-rein-in-medical.html</a></p>
<p>4.) Uwe Reinhardt has a modest proposal,,,<br />
<a href="http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2009/07/24/a-modest-proposal-on-payment-reform/" rel="nofollow">http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2009/07/24/a-modest-proposal-on-payment-reform/</a></p>
<p>5.) Wendell Potter, too:<br />
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1920893,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1920893,00.html</a></p>
<p>6.) Administrative costs:<br />
<a href="http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/07/health-affairs-2-articles-on-cost-of.html" rel="nofollow">http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2009/07/health-affairs-2-articles-on-cost-of.html</a></p>
<p>Bottom line is, passing the bill is going to be half the battle, implementing reform in a way that is most beneficial to patients at the least cost to us as a society is next up.</p>
<p>But, let&#8217;s get everyone taken care of first, and avoid the 18K to 45K people dying due to lack of access to health care and THEN we&#8217;ll deal with reducing costs. Turns out, if you read the Gawande article, they may be by doing the exact same things.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
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		<title>By: wrs10</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/shocker-the-dems-are-cheating-on-healthcare-costing/comment-page-1#comment-69031</link>
		<dc:creator>wrs10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Shocker: The Dems are Cheating on Healthcare Costing&quot;
Well, who woulda thunk it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shocker: The Dems are Cheating on Healthcare Costing&#8221;<br />
Well, who woulda thunk it?</p>
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