Opinions differ about Sarah Palin – everybody knows that. But what infuses debate over the governor with special energy is that we can’t even get to agreement on the basic facts.
Pro-Palin conservatives take it for granted that Palin is immensely popular and that she helped turn around McCain’s staggering campaign. Nothing seems to shake this view: not the polls showing that 63% of Americans say they would “never” consider voting for her, not evidence that McCain’s slide in the polls coincides not with the economic data, but with his choice of Palin as running mate, not Palin’s own precipitous collapse in public approval over the month of October 2008.
(There are a lot of numbers in this last link, but note particularly the CNN polls on the question about whether McCain/Obama/Biden/Palin have the qualities a leader should have. McCain began the fall campaign with 62% thinking him a good leader – and ended with the same 62%. Obama began at 62% and ended at 65%. Biden gained more: from 55% to 67%. And Palin? She plunged from 47% to 37%. By the end of the campaign 63% of Americans said she did NOT have the qualities a president should have.)
Here’s the latest installment in this alternative reality fiction.
I was interviewed on PBS last week about Palin’s book release. I said that Palin had an especially serious problem with women voters.
This is just fact, again recorded in every survey. In October 2008, Palin’s support dropped furthest and fastest among women, and especially among independents: more than two dozen points among independent women in barely 6 weeks. Consistently since the campaign, every survey has shown the former Alaska governor much more popular among men than women. And yet this attested statistical fact is shrugged off with comments like, “when I saw her campaign in N.H., I was surrounded by moms with strollers”
So let’s try to bang this one down for keeps.
Earlier this month, CNN/Opinion Research released a poll showing that only 28% of Americans now think Palin qualified for the presidency. 70% say she is unqualified. Even among Republicans, only 54% think she is qualified, 44% say No.
The published poll does not break these answers down by sex, but I asked my friends at the Political Unit for the cross-tabs, and here’s what they show:
While 33% of men deem Palin qualified, only 24% of women do. 66% of men deem her unqualified – and 74% of women.
Now look just at Republicans: Republican men deem Palin “qualified” by a margin of 60-38. But Republican women? Not even half think she is qualified: only 49%. 50% of Republican women say Palin is unqualified for the job.
If you like Palin – well go ahead. It’s a free country. But quit saying that “the people” love Sarah Palin.
They don’t. Actually, they quite dislike her. The longer they know her, the more they dislike her. And even more than they dislike her, they do not respect her. That reaction of dislike and disrespect is most concentrated among American women.
Sarah’s constituency is a relatively small cohort of conservative men. I offended a lot of these people last week by suggesting that there was some sexual dynamic at work in the enthusiasm for the politician whom Rush Limbaugh used to describe as “Governor Babe.” So let’s put it this way: Whatever impulse it is that so excites Palin supporters, it is not shared by their wives.
117 responses so far
1 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:04 pm
……women’s brains are not generally you know where
2 Churl // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I think that David Frum has a Sarah Palin problem.
3 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Churl // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:11 pm
“I think that David Frum has a Sarah Palin problem.”
…..worse than “Starbursts” Lowry or “MILF” Steyn you think?……actually I think she’s very ******** but so was Marilyn Monroe and no one ever suggested she should be president
4 Reason60 // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I haven’t parsed the polling data, but the thought that she might have less support among women reminds me of the poll I saw during the Lewinsky scandal, showing Bill’s support among men was lower than women, yet Lewinsky’s support among women was lower than men.
My take on that was that men and women coul deach read their own gender’s lies; men could see right through Bill’s lying about having sex with “that woman”, while women saw Lewinsky for a scheming homewrecker.
I wonder if part of the Palin phenomenon is that since her appeal rests so heavily on the “she’s a MOM” meme, that her MOMness is such a strength and proof of her superior view of reality, that women know instinctively what a crock it is.
5 Chekote // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:26 pm
OT
I read somewhere that AnnieM has been chased from this blog. I hope it is not true. Annie is a valuable contributor to this blog.
6 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Chekote // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:26 pm
“OT
I read somewhere that AnnieM has been chased from this blog. I hope it is not true. Annie is a valuable contributor to this blog.”
….Chek……someone said it in response to some stuff from one of the more enlightened of our brethren….I’m not sure it’s true…..I hope not…..on that topic whatever happened to the stage directions king ….can’t remember his name…..you remember (snuffle*grunt*wheeze etc) I went to Europe for a month and he’d disappeared when I got back…..can’t say I miss him particularly now we have bi-groper and others to provide the entertainment
7 MI-GOPer // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:36 pm
David, I know that you find Sarah Palin and the loyalty that her surrounds tough to comprehend or acknowledge.
But here’s a huge problem with your article: it’s mostly quoting polls from the campaign taken during the High Season of Hunting Sarah… relentless, unprincipled pandering by far Left democrat activists trolling through any trash including made up stories like Trigg was Bristol’s kid, Todd was inches from filing for divorce, Sarah was moments from being keelhauled by Alaskans sick of all her criminal actions and corruption, Sarah was a book burning, neo-fascist radical Christianist with horns and 666 tatooed on her scalp in a place only her hairdresser knew for sure… and on and on.
The recent pre-book tour polls and some of the push-poll survey instruments intended to confirm the adverse residual effects of the so-called “Palin Effect” still lingered in the body politic… is eactly what it is. Residual effects of a mean-spirited, relentlessly partisan, brass knuckles treatment by the MSM of the #1 threat to getting their man, Obama Messiah, elected.
I take heart in the fact that her favorables now approach 51% and Obama’s favorables continue to decline into the upper 40s somewhere close to 46-47%.
You can fail to understand a lot, David. You prove it here with some –not all– of your posts. But when you give Palin the time of her book tour to reverse her fortunes and resettle herself with Americans, American voters and Republicans in general -and women especially- I think you’ll be chomping on your words like crow bones. I hope you don’t choke.
The real Palin, I think, appeals to women –democrats, independents and GOPers–because she is first and foremost genuine. She’s a mom with a son in the service of our Country, she’s a mom with troubled daughters who have made mistakes and she’s forgiven them faster than a smile fades from Nancy Pelosi’s BoToxed face, she has a husband who clearly loves her and she adores him –and that’s gotta make lots of the typical whining democrat women with cheating hubbies and failed marriages very jealous… including Hillary. In fact, Hillary wants to get some coffee with Sarah to learn Sarah’s secrets for keeping her hubbie happy. I hope Hillary listens because the Secret Service scuttlebutt is that SlickWilly hasn’t changed his ways and it’s getting worse than it was in the Oval Orafice… I mean Oval Office.
When the book tour is over and Sarah has had the opportunity to tell her story and share it in a way that the McCain Camp –tight-assed, emotionally stilted robots if there ever were any– was scared to death having her share because it might make it seem like a Palin-McCain ticket… I think you’ll be able to reflect on better polling, better informed respondents and draw better conclusions.
One fact we can agree upon: Sarah Palin was treated like dirt by both the MSM, the Obama Dirty Tricks Office and, most surprisingly, by some emotionally stunted campaign hacks inside the McCain team. That triple whammie did a number on her numbers and only her story and her genuine-ness will be able to correct the residual impressions left by all that campaign carnage.
Pity that you can’t get there from here. It’ll take time for you. I hope you can revisit this issue in about 45 days or so. Women are pulled to Palin’s story because it is the dream story they’d like for themselves… we teach our daughters all about Cinderella… Sarah Palin is a Cinderella story for the modern age.
8 MI-GOPer // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:39 pm
AutomaticBSer keeps serving up and the TrollTribe circle jerk pops off another load to pollute the thread. Way to go guys; you are the kind of scum Sarah Palin had to endure and she’s beating you over the head with her family, her financial success, her fame and her favorable ratings.
Guile and envy are your only lots in life.
9 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:46 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:39 pm
” she’s beating you over the head with her family, her financial success, ”
……..she’s certainly doing that but then she has plenty of sheep like you to shear……how many copies of her magnum opus did you buy?
10 PracticalGirl // Nov 23, 2009 at 5:55 pm
MiGOPer says
“The real Palin, I think, appeals to women –democrats, independents and GOPers–because she is first and foremost genuine.”
Wrong. Every woman I know thinks she’s attractive. NO woman (conservative or liberal) I know thinks she’s even remotely genuine, nor fit to lead anything more stimulating than book group. Women love to see strong leadsership examples. Palin’s ridiculous winking, her increasingly short (and tight) skirts on the campaign trail, and her inability to articulate anything politically complex was certainly anything but.
And have you checked out Sarah’s non-moving and very lifted eyebrows on the book tour appearances? She’s giving Pelosi a run for her money in the cosmetic area.
11 MI-GOPer // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:16 pm
And PracticalGirl, I’m guessing that your fellow lesbian friends would find anything with an “R” after their name to be categorically unattractive too. It’s in your… ummm… political indoctrination program.
It’s a thing about women who love women… you’re drawn to the victimhood industry of the democrats and you can’t accept that there are intelligent women who are NOT fixated on being victims.
I stood in line in Kentwood with nearly 2,000 people at Palin’s first (or second?) book signing last week and the women around my family were all women who you and your club would find disgustingly normal and mainstream. Ahead of us by three people were a group of 30-35 MSU students… all women… with posters and books at the ready. 9 of 30+ were black, by the way.
In fact, in the lilly-white, highly suburban mall of Kentwood, there were many blacks, hispanics, asians and just as many women as men in line. But you wouldn’t know that from reading the Advocate or Small Engine Repair, would you? And we certainly wouldn’t hear that on Chrissy Matthews Obama-or-Bust program.
Like I told David… give it a few weeks after the book tour… her polling will change and the residual effect of the campaign carnage by far left trolls will fade from memory. Sarah will be loved as the model of good stewardship of the outdoors, a loving mom, a caring and loyal spouse and a thoughtful mover and shaker that she truly is… it’s all there at each of her signings. She is genuine in a way that NancyP can’t even fathom.
12 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:32 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:16 pm
“And PracticalGirl, I’m guessing that your fellow lesbian friends’
……Great value tonight bi-groper…….you’re the best laugh I’ve had since rewatching Fawlty Towers a few weeks ago…..not related to Basil Fawlty are you?
13 cpanza // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I’m not sure why a woman thinking another woman is attractive entails that the woman is a lesbian. This is an explanation I’d love to hear. More than likely, sometimes the emotions that get massaged by engaging in the outrage du jour can get the best of a person.
14 Reason60 // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:46 pm
“The real Palin, I think, appeals to women –democrats, independents and GOPers–because she is first and foremost genuine. SHE’S A MOM with a son in the service of our Country, SHE’S A MOM with troubled daughters who have made mistakes and she’s forgiven them faster than a smile fades from Nancy Pelosi’s BoToxed face, SHE HAS A HUSBAND who clearly loves her and she adores him –and that’s gotta make lots of the typical whining democrat women with cheating hubbies and failed marriages very jealous…”
See, this is the stuff I am talking about.
Palin is pure identity…as if her MOMness is her main asset, as if she is the first and only female politician who has givern birth, or has a happy marriage.
But further, notice that it is an angry posture; not that she has a terrific vision for America, and her MOMness and marriage are fine, to boot. No, her MOMness and marriage are realy her main selling points. Her positions and accomplishments aren’t any different than Pawlenty or Romney- on paper, she is indistinguishable from them. But her demographics and her willingness to make herself the issue, to make herself into the Everywoman, the put upon and oppressed great Silent Majority who is angrily striking back at the bitchy wicked but vaguely defined Elites is what attracts her fans.
15 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:49 pm
You’re missing the point. It has nothing to do with outrage on the personal level of the person making the comment. It’s about pushing our buttons with whatever insult will do the trick (lesbian Hillary hit squads took out Vince Foster, etc.)
The goal is simply to refuse to engage in any rational debate, call the opponent a commie, traitorous, sick, whatever the label of the week is. It’s straight out of Newt Gingrich’s playbook from 25 years ago, back when he used to hold seminars on how to get elected over a liberal or Democratic opponent.
It’s a tactic, nothing more.
16 cpanza // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:57 pm
RB:
I know what it is, and the playbook. But in the adherents, it is partly motivated by a undercurrent of outrage addiction, which operates only on the level of emotion, and so wants to transform all debates into an arena in which it is most comfortable — namely, outrage fests.
17 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:58 pm
16 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 6:49 pm
“The goal is simply to refuse to engage in any rational debate, call the opponent a commie, traitorous, sick, whatever the label of the week is. It’s straight out of Newt Gingrich’s playbook from 25 years ago, back when he used to hold seminars on how to get elected over a liberal or Democratic opponent.”
…….Essentially true….the problem for a blog like this is that ultimately Gresham’s law kicks in and the sensible get bored and bad blogging drives out good……I find these folks enormously entertaining…..they are so utterly grotesque….and unlike the Nazis they are never going to have power …..but ultimately even the grotesque begins to pall
18 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Only if you engage them on their own terms, and I’m no angel I lose my temper same as any one else. But, the thing to remember is, we own the White House and both houses of Congress for now, even if we lose seats in 2012 we know they’ll get clobbered again in 2012 so let them go Cheney themselves with all heir bile.
Engage with the persuadable, ignore the ignoramuses, and most importantly be positive. Even up to just this point, our guy has done what no other president has managed in over 100 years: Health Care Reform on the table and in his first year too. Who gives a crap what they think when demographics and the current power dynamic is on our side.
Stop bringing knives to a gunfight. In this case, the gunfight is over who knows how to lead and who has the better agenda and who believes in in more. Who has the momentum?
The last two election cycles say we do.
19 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 7:18 pm
even if we lose seats in
2012201020 ottovbvs // Nov 23, 2009 at 7:35 pm
rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 7:17 pm
……I’m in no doubt the GOP in it’s present mode is totally screwed in the short and long term…….these nut cases are unpersuadable particulary since some total loons seemed to have showed up here in the past couple of weeks…..perhaps they are on a mission to destablize David
21 divinitas // Nov 23, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Reason60 is right about the identity politics of MOMness when it comes to defending Sarah Palin. I find it quite annoying.
Though I also wonder if this is also due to the lack of substantial women leadership in the Republican Party as whole. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but when I think of female political leaders, I think on the democratic side of – Pelosi,Clinton, Feinstein, Sebelius, Napolitano and not really a political leader but Sotomayer. On the Republican side I think of – Palin, Rice, Cheney, and of course Bacchman. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this? I have a feeling I’m leaving someone out. I would think that this is another good reason for conservatives to rally around Kay Bailey Hutchison in her race against Perry. She’s good at debate, she has had a lot of experience in the Senate, she’s still personable to those not as conservative as her and she doesn’t oversell her MOMness.
Unfortunately, I think Palin’s voice drowns out the voice of other female conservative leaders, and to other women in general that may not be as focused on family life for whatever reason. Or that may be single and therefore not identify with her. Who’s looking out for them?
22 sinz54 // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:16 pm
MI-GOPer:
Favorability does NOT equal qualification to be President. Favorability includes what the respondents think of Palin as a human being. Which is only one part of the qualifications to be President.
If a pollster asked me whom do I like more as a person, Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney, I would answer Sarah Palin.
If a pollster asked me who was more qualified to be President, Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney, I would answer Mitt Romney.
I don’t think I would ever like Mitt Romney as a friend. But I could, and did, respect him as an executive.
23 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:28 pm
So David Fool, Frum, whatever, post yet another Palin article. This one from NOV 16, is this considered OLD NEWS.
Since we are unable to look at the internals, percentage of respondents, this poll is partisan David, as if you care.
David Fool, Frum, whatever, last attempt at analyzing poll data, “We Wuz Robbed- by Acorn” was a farce.
The internals proved that fact. Now David’s inability to resist Sarah Sexuality has us again snickering at his schoolboy, or Chis Matthews style, crush on a politican.
Unless we have access to the internals we cannot speak intelligently towards the results, snicker, snicker..
24 sinz54 // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:36 pm
MI-GOPer:
Yes, the coverage of Sarah Palin was just atrocious–the most negative I’ve seen of any VP candidate, even Dan Quayle.
But I also remember how it started. Do you?
When McCain announced Sarah Palin as his running mate, the reaction towards her from the media and the Dems was either neutral or puzzled. Most took it as an act of desperation on McCain’s part–but they didn’t blame her or attack her personally. Not yet.
Then shortly thereafter, Sarah Palin announced that her daughter Bristol was going to have an illegitimate child–and the roof fell in. The media, and the Dems, now had exactly the narrative they dreamed of to destroy the GOP ticket: Hypocritical social conservatives don’t practice what they preach, they preach abstinence but practice illegitimacy. It fit right in with the perceived hypocrisies of David Vitter and Larry Craig.
Go back and check the Google News archive for yourself. The piling on Sarah Palin didn’t begin till after the revelations about Bristol.
I have explained that the GOP has a special problem in their moral self-righteousness. If you’re going to set yourselves up as true Christians, if you’re going to demand faithfulness to one’s spouse and chastity before marriage, you had better make sure you’re practicing those virtues yourselves. Otherwise, good luck to you.
25 sinz54 // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:39 pm
rbottoms:
I’ll take your deal.
If the GOP can make significant gains in 2010–enough to end this filibuster-proof majority the Dems currently have–Obama won’t ever get one more piece of legislation through Congress from then on. The entire rest of his agenda will be dead as a doornail. Even in 2010, before the election, terrified Dems, seeing the poll numbers, will be scuttling away from his agenda as fast as their legs can carry them.
So Obama will go into 2012, running for re-election on EXACTLY one achievement–health care reform–which will already be three years old by then.
That scenario is perfectly O.K. with me.
26 PracticalGirl // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Love this quote…Another woman heard from:
Speaking to CNN, the host of Martha Stewart Living said Palin is “very boring to me.” Having someone so “confused” in government is unsafe, she said. That makes Palin a “dangerous person.”
“She’s so confused,” Stewart said. “Anyone in government like that is a real problem.
Reacting to the massive first-day sales of Palin’s new book, she added: “Good for her. Good for her. … I wouldn’t watch her if you paid me.”
27 PracticalGirl // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:45 pm
MiGOPer-
What gives? Sorry that I threaten you with my opinions, but I disagree with much of what you have to say and yet have never resorted to calling you a myopic, misogynistic impotent who couldn’t find a coherent argument if it were on top of your blow up doll.
OOPS.
28 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Sinz54, This canard of the left need not be repeated by someone like you. A “True Christian” has faith in the teachings of Christ. That does not imply that any mortal can obtain 100%, without fail, complete compliance with the entire scope of the teachings. To state that you should or that you could means sainthood for us all, unlikely.
Rather a ‘True Christian” accepts the failings of humanity without excuse and forgives. Accepting the failings, without then justifying the failings, and then endeavoring to do better in the future.
That is exactly what the Palins did. Accepted the birth without justifying, tried to provide a positive example via their own relationship of one their children could follow. And move forward. The daughter learned a harsh lesson for the Libs, or hypocrites in the Bible story.
29 divinitas // Nov 23, 2009 at 8:55 pm
sdspringy,
You can be a conservative, a Republican, and more importantly, an American, without being a “True Christian.” Faith and politics makes me sick.
30 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:03 pm
I agree 100% Divinitas. However to trust humanity guided by their own desires or whims, and not driven by some conscience driven by belief or faith in God has proven dangerous. Or means you are living in China. good luck.
The most successful countries to date have been those guided by Christian virtues. Not all perfect, but better than the rest
31 balconesfault // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Sinz: Go back and check the Google News archive for yourself.
Hmmm… the way I recall, it really started when she began giving interviews, and demonstrated her not-ready-for-Prime Timeness. I mean, seriously – you who champion competency in national security above all else had to be put off by her flippancy and water-treading when ever pressed for an answer more than inches deep on global issues.
And seriously – is nobody in the Republican Party embarrassed at the memory of Levi Johnson standing on-stage at the RNC?
I do appreciate lectures from Republicans about accepting the failings of humanity and forgiving.
32 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:23 pm
So basically the GOP pledges to stop government from working for two years?
Yeah, sounds about right.
But that’s where you’re crazy train goes off the rails. Once Health Care Reform is passes, all other issues begin to fall back into the typical horse trading that makes government work. The Republicans bet all their chips on NO and they’ve lost this spin of the wheel. Business will go back to pretty much, as usual until next winter when the presidential race starts again.
You think the GOP is going to want to go home to their districts even next summer during the midterms with zero accomplishments to tout, other than we said no to everything?
Even in 2010 that’s a fantasy.
And, by the way as long as we have 51 seats the Democrats can just pass everything, and I mean everything, through reconciliation. The Republicans will get nothing. Not a single positive outcome that president Obama can block for two years if necessary,
Even George Bush at 30% have a pretty big fist to punch with as president. In a country overrun by teabaggers roads still get paved, prisons get built, and while Obama may have less power, he won’t have none.
And he has the power to make life in a district controlled by a right wing loon pretty uncomfortable. So dream on, dream a dream as big as finding Obama’s Nigerian birth certificate if it makes you feel better as you wait for Sarah “The Moose” Palin and Bobby “The Exorcist” Jindal to rescue you from the clutches of ObamaHitlerMao.
33 lowandslow // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:27 pm
She’s going to have a hard time selling she’s an “everymom” to most women. Most mothers don’t have the luxury to quit their jobs when things get a little tough at work so you can make a few million dollars to spend four months dictating your life story and grievances to a ghostwriter.
34 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Pretty bold statements Bottoms. What legislation have the Dems passed since 2006 that they are so proud of.
Thats right, nothing. And they haven’t passed anything here either. And the Dems won’t have 51 seats, they have Lieberman and Spector, good luck.
Did you read the NY Times today. The Dems will have more problems than 2010 when all this debt falls in their lap.
The worm is turning, really fast this time. The Dems will get blamed for the economy, the debt, the war, and no major legislation passed. For Dems, 2012 will be the end of the world.
35 anniemargret // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hey Chekote… …didn’t drop out, just decided to take a mini-vacation from the Insult-Team- Extraordinaire for awhile.
Back to Palin.. There is a reason why 70% think she is unqualified. There is a reason why the majority of women think she is unqualified.
It is because she is unqualified.
1) She left the governorship to make money. Insert a different name … e.g.: Governor NoName from AnyState complains about being ‘hounded’ by phony lawsuits and the bad media, and decides to leave before his/her term is out . He/She goes on immediately after resigning to write a book and go on tour where he/she makes gobs of money, proving that he/she is more interested in money than serving out their sworn duty to the citizens of the state.
2) She is inarticulate. A person of high office must be able to respond in a clear and coherent manner to difficult and probing questions concerning national and international issues. Someone here on the blog recently cut and paste one of Palin’s recent word salads, although there are others. She has so many sound bites and platitudes in her head she tries to put them in some semblance of order but of course, she cannot and it comes out as a word salad. Americans also instinctively know if someone is trying to finesse and is not able to be substantive. She finesses whenever she can. Americans want a president to be able to speak to Putin without a word salad. Perception is everything.
3) She is a divider, not a uniter. Americans turned their backs on the culture wars, although her fans love it. Whether or not Obama is re-elected, Americans want a President who will speak to all the people, big and little city-dwellers, small and big town, rural or suburban, blue or white collar. A President is the President of the USA, not just her fans in ‘real America.’ This is politics 101; she has to show she understands the ‘big tent’ but….she doesn’t. She prefers the ‘little tent.’
5) Americans also want their President to draw upon the best qualities of its citizens. We don’t like to see baiting and insults being thrown around as if she is running for the local high school presidency. We don’t like lies. “Death Threats” “Pallin’ around with terrorists.” Bad Form.
4) Her religion and the over-rated ‘Mom-’O-The-Year’ status is of no importance to high office. The more she and her fans bring religion into the debate, the more they undercut the constitutional separation of church and state . Not a good political move.
There are thousands of Moms raising their kids, putting them to bed, changing diapers, seeing them off to school, helping them with their homework, and maybe working one or two jobs, then falling exhausted into bed at night, earning mediocre salaries. These are the true “Moms’ O-The Year”. No one sings their praises but they are everywhere.
5) Most women don’t like Palin because they see right through her . She poses in shorts, then appears to act surprised when the media uses it, winks and blows kisses. Women instinctively know that if they want to be taken seriously, they don’t pose in shorts, wink or blow kisses. I think Marilyn did the same in Some Like It Hot. Women find it demeaning in a person seeking high office.
5) She will not be able to run against anyone seriously in 2012 because as soon as she gets in a good healthy political debate- requiring substantive answers -with Romney, Huckabee, Pawlenty or Gingrich, Guliani, etc… they will run rings around her. She won’t risk it. She’ll stay on the book tour trail, giving lots of speeches to adoring crowds, or maybe dethrone Ann Coulter.
36 mymy // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I’ve watched the news clips from the cities Gov.Palin has visited.The majority of the folks in the lines are female young and old.
37 Kevin B // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:00 pm
I do remember, but not the way you do.
I remember that Palin gave a pretty good speech at the Republican convention. She even pronounced “nuclear” correctly. Then she went on press silence for a very long time while the McCain team tried to coach her on national and foreign policy. When she finally made her debut, she didn’t seem to have absorbed much. She could pronounce “Ahmadinejad,” but had somehow reverted to “nucular.”
Most of the early anti-Palin buzz had to do with her fundamentalism, her questionable “thanks but no thanks” claim, and her communications skills. And Tina Fey’s impression, of course.
I don’t think the Bristol Palin narrative could have had the traction it needed to bring her down.
38 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Annie, lengthy and partisan and rather antiwoman don’t cha think.
1. Palin had debt associated with ethics complaints. No support from the state for defense which means the cost is paid by her not the state. She leaves to pay bills, and during this economy she is demonized for paying her bills.
2. She don’t use a teleprompter. Obama never ever speaks without one, he carries a spare just in case. And I am not so sure Obama is heard when it appears he is speaking to every national leader while looking at their shoes.
3. Canard. Think any Blue Dogs are getting a Xmas card this year from the White House.
4. You missed 4, it comes before 5, not an indication of your intelligence. Rarely hear Sarah bring up religion without being asked first. If you don’t like the answer, don’t ask the question my Mom always said. I think you really over blow the Mom thing
5. How about bowing to Dictators and Emperors, that work for ya? The “Death Panels”, that is what you meant isn’t it, actually changed language in the House. So much for false.
6. You had another 5, only one 5 before 6, a clock is a good reference.
39 rbottoms // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:13 pm
I think we’ll be quite fine going into 2012 with the first president in 100 years to reform the health care system. And just because you don’t like what Obama proposes or gets passed now or in the future doesn’t mean we Democrats won’t be happy with it.
Fully expect another minimum wage hike, more unemployment reforms.
DADT will be gone, more Supreme Court picks, more judges, Bush regulations rolled back.
Even if we don’t get Card Check, fighting for it is a good thing.
Then there’s the more than 200,000 happy GM workers every one of them with a job because of you know who.
We like this stuff and will be happy if Obama does more of the same for all four years if only to drive you teabaggers crazy. Every regulatory change you hate, pretty much is something he can run on in 2012.
Bold? You’re damn skippy.
40 balconesfault // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Obama never ever speaks without one
Please. The man has conducted many interviews without a teleprompter, and demonstrated an ability to handle a significant level of detail in those interviews.
41 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:30 pm
So basically nothing has been passed but your hopeful.
Won’t be any unemployment reform, too costly with so many applicants who will blame the Dems.
You get to replace Gingsburg, big deal.
You won’t get Card Check, Gap&Trade, Health Care is ify, really nothing to hang a hat on in 2012.
There are actually only 80,000 employees at GM, Who will get a 40% tax increase on their health benefits. Wonder who they will thank for that.
Sounds like your in happy land again. Frankly this spin don’t even look good on paper. Glad you like promises on Gitmo which won’t be closed. Promises on budget neutral health reform, additional 2 TRILLION. Promise on job creation, first 750 billion didn’t work. Boy, you would have to be a LIB to be happy with that.
42 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Bacon, even Anita Dunn, publicly stated they never let Obama speak. The campaign completely controled the message, and the MSM totally licked his boots the entire time. He has never sat down to a hostile interview, he is a fable when it comes to public speaking
43 Reason60 // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:37 pm
My take on these points-
2) She is inarticulate. Good presidents speak clearly of policy; Clinton, Bush I are examples; Great Presidents craft a vision, a vague yet understandable sense of shared goals, something that pulls us all into it, giving us hope that we can become a united society; FDR and Reagan are examples.
Sarah can’t do either; she has no command of policy, but also sketches a vision that is crabbed, angry and bitter. Her policy is haphazard and inconsequential- a pastiche of tired GOP talking points circa 1988- Low Taxes, Less Regulation, Strong Defense. Her real topic, the thing that really motivates her partisans is anger- anger at the Elites, the Media, the Educated, the Illegals, those Who Don’t See America Like You and I See America.
3) She is a divider, not a uniter.
Her vision centers around herself, and her demographic- her partisans speak only of What Sarah Is, not What America Is. If you aren’t already a member of Sarah’s group, (rural, hunter, Christian) then you aren’t invited.
By way of example, imagine hearing someone in 1979 argue for Ronald Reagan: “I support Reagan because Reagan is a Dad, who understands ordinary Dads, who has a happy marriage to Nancy, and he cuts brush and rides horses. And he is a Dad.”
You can’t speak about Palin without touching on race; where are her Hispanic and black fans? If she is a gutsy working mom, a Christian and a mom, working class and struggling Everymom….why don’t minority women flock to her? Her rallies are remarkably white.
No one seems to have polled minority women and gotten a solid answer, but I notice that Palin’s constituency, the group that speaks in her name on blogs, at rallies, in living rooms and restauranst and break rooms all across America, is exactly the Tea Party constituency; and they are intensely hostile to illegals, and you won’t speak to them for more than 10 seconds without hearing mutterings about “pressing 1 for English” and scathing descriptions of urban city areas as being 3rd World hellholes.
I think minorities are smart enough to know that for all its populist rhetoric, the Tea Party/ Palinista Party is not going to welcome them into its bosom.
44 Hot Air » Blog Archive » Quotes of the day // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:37 pm
[...] “Sarah’s constituency is a relatively small cohort of conservative men. I offended a lot of these people last week by suggesting that there was some sexual dynamic at work in the enthusiasm for the politician whom Rush Limbaugh used to describe as ‘Governor Babe.’ So let’s put it this way: Whatever impulse it is that so excites Palin supporters, it is not shared by their wives.” [...]
45 Chekote // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Hey Chekote… …didn’t drop out, just decided to take a mini-vacation from the Insult-Team- Extraordinaire for awhile.
Oh good. Hang in there. You need to help chase certain elements out of the party so that we can beat the Dems again
46 Chekote // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I meant you need to help me chase….. sheesh
47 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Reason60
Speaks clearly about policy is a requirement. How about you review all the conflicting, meandering statements Obama has made about health reform. No public option, then has to have a public option, budget neutral, no increase in taxes. Do you ever turn that critical eye for speaking about policy to Obama. Has a major speak in Mar on Afghan, and now can’t come up with a plan. The first one was bad, incomplete or just inarticulate. Which one.
You have no proof of your statements concerning Palin’s demographic other than your biased interpretation. Obama sat in a church for 20 years listening to race baiting, hate filled sermons. Palin has showed no biased views towards anyone. And currently has no need to draw anyone to a campaign since she only selling books.
Your view of the world is certainly biased because too many white people is obviously bad in your opinion Rev. Wright.
48 anniemargret // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Chekote, #46. The brass ring…. ! hee. All’s fair in love and ….politics. ;0)
49 balconesfault // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:07 pm
sdspringy:
So basically nothing has been passed but your hopeful.
Well, Obama campaigned on passing a bill that would spend hundreds of billions on upgrading America’s infrastructure. He got that bill passed in the first month in office.
Won’t be any unemployment reform
What kind of unemployment reform. I don’t remember Obama campaigning on that issue… They did just pass an unemployment benefits extension, however, and I imagine there are many Americans grateful for that.
You won’t get Card Check
Don’t remember that being one of his campaign pledges, either.
Gap&Trade, Health Care is ify, really nothing to hang a hat on in 2012.
Health care will pass. Cap and trade is more iffy, although Healthcare passage will give it momentum.
The Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights was an important piece of legislation that will sell well during the election season.
There are actually only 80,000 employees at GM, Who will get a 40% tax increase on their health benefits.
40% tax increase? Where does this math come from?
50 Fras // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Jesus H. Christ David, what is it with you and Sarah Palin. Move on man! What are you trying to prove? It must be killing you that this nobody is selling more books than the self appointed intellect David Frum. Take some advice from a non-intellect. Stop this whining about how the right is destroying the Republican Party. We all agree that the far right cannot by themselves win elections and neither can moderates. If you love the Republican Party or conservatives, please sir, begin to find ways to bring the different blocks together. I believe you are a smart man, that’s why I continue to read your site. Try uniting us instead of fighting. Enough already Jeeeez
51 David Frum’s Sarah Palin problem | Asian Conservatives // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 pm
[...] David Frum, who makes his case with a bunch of CNN polls showing Palin’s problem with women. Hmmm, [...]
52 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Bacon, I was actually responding to Rbottoms. Those were his statement of policy which I proved and you added some aditional support to how foolish Rbottoms is.
I think you have too many deal breakers coming for healthcare to pass. The debt won’t support too many more vote buying spree like the one Landreau recieved.
The 40% tax increase is for those individuals with Cadillac healthcare plans. Its in the Senat version. Union auto workers have the best healthcare plans on the planet. If the Senate version passed those plans will be taxed.
53 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Man the internet is cool, just type “obama and card check” and looky. Obama promiese to pass card check. Funny stuff.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/04/obama-tells-unions-that-card-check-will-pass-this-year/
54 advocatusdiaboli // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:40 pm
The simple fact is that Sarah Palin, while charismatic to many of the older conservative white men in the Republican party because of her posturing and positioning her image for them, is one of the most dim lights of the party, a shallow thinker, a poor speaker, a quitter, and a religious zealot of the extreme kind. And a lot of Republican women, able to think with clarity absent having to peer through the haze of testosterone, can see that plainly–as did most of the nation when McCain made that fatal VP selection and doomed his campaign. There are far better conservatives to lead this nation or does our party want to hang its hat on style without substance for 2012? I sure hope not. Let’s get serious and offer one of the many intelligent men and women in this party to lead this nation in 2012. Or be laughed at once again. It’s up to us.
55 balconesfault // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:41 pm
The 40% tax increase is for those individuals with Cadillac healthcare plans.
I guess I still don’t understand the math. Are you saying that those auto workers will see a 40% increase in their taxes? To work out, that would mean that the value of their insurance plan is about 63% of what their current hourly wages work out to … ie, an autoworker making 60K/year in pre-tax wages would need to have an insurance plan worth about 40K/year. I’m kind of thinking the Cadillac isn’t that gold-plated.
56 balconesfault // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Man the internet is cool, just type “obama and card check” and looky. Obama promiese to pass card check. Funny stuff.
Yep. I was looking for campaign promises.
57 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:54 pm
I believe the 40% tax rule is a tax on the amount of the healthcare benefit. ie you have $16k healthbenefit, you now have $4k in addtional taxes. there may be income qualifiers, not sure about that.
Promise is a Promise even the ones after elected.
Advocatus: the whole religious zealot, really where does that come from? She walking around stabbing people with crosses. Come on some prespective please.
And you maybe right about better conservatives in 2012. I am not pointing to Palin as a candidate, just as a normal person who seem to get hammered for no apparent reason. And McCain lost as soon as he won the primary, no Republican was going to win in 08. Especially after the Republican party had blown our money like a wad on a blue dress.
58 sdspringy // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Bacon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/21/health/policy/21insure.html
excise tax on health benefits.
59 balconesfault // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:30 am
Bacon?
60 montee // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:38 am
David this is really dissapointing. To be honest I couldn’t be bothered to seriously look at your polling data because that is not the crux of the issue here. For what its worth I probably strongly agree with you on the premise that Palin has serious problems bringing in female support. But you are disenginously trying to ignore and pretend away the statement that really offended most. You basically said on national t.v that Palin has advanced her entire political career by sending “powerful sexual signals”, that has she used her sexual image to get ahead in her political career. Now that is a big claim to make at someone’s detriment and you are entitled to your opinion. But I think its only fair that you respond to people who ask that you produce evidence to back-up what I see as a thoroughly degrading and insulting charge. Now I am not yet married but speaking as someone who has 3 very attractive, young and successful sisters, I would find anybody who made a claim like yours against them without having the proof to back it up, to be a lose tongued coward. Someone who believes he can just make ridiculous statements rubbishing the credibility of those he doesn’t like by resorting to lies and fabrications. Please either defend those remarks or withdraw them if you want the rest of what you say to be taken seriously. I would have said you apologize but I now you won’t and I also wanted to believe you mis-spoke or were mis-interpreted but this reaction proves otherwise. Seriously David address the elephant in the room before you move to the other stuff.
61 steelyblades // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:49 am
That would be swell…but who? And where are they? I’m all for it, but you have to come up with someone better than Pawlenty or Jindal to get my attention.
62 Katie Couric Dirty Dancing, Idiots, 131 Mil Hit YouTube Video: Morning Intell « DBKP at WordPress // Nov 24, 2009 at 1:11 am
[...] FRUM HAS A PALIN PROBLEM: Sarah Palin’sWoman Problem As noted in our report from the Palin tour stop in Washington PA Saturday, a majority of the crowd [...]
63 JimAK // Nov 24, 2009 at 1:13 am
David is making the same mistake the rest of the media is making – relying on old information and outdated polls. Palin made her appearance on Oprah one week ago and has followed that up with a number of other solid interviews and huge crowds.
Take a poll today and then take another in 30 days. And then compare those results to early November and to July. It’s always about the trends.
64 InspectorHound // Nov 24, 2009 at 1:24 am
sdspringy:
“He has never sat down to a hostile interview…”
Oh come. The man gave a THIRTY MINUTE interview to BILL O’REILLY, fer cryinoutloud. Sdspringy, do you have amnesia, or do you think everyone else does?
Part one on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e9INHY_g-I
I mean, there’s video and everything. And it was on Fox News, so you should’ve known about it.
And I am trying to *imagine* how much you’d be screaming if Palin had gone for an interview with a guy who was as abrasive, argumentative, and interruptive–verging on downright hostile–as O’Reilly was to Obama. (Not a big deal–candidates should be perfectly able to handle hostile and unfair media outlets. Outlets that advocate and incite violence, not so much; I would imagine the murders of the two Unitarians in July 2008 by Fox News fan Jim David Adkisson (google him) and the murder of Dr. George Tiller by Bill O’Reilly fan Scott Roeder are why the White House doesn’t want to legitimize Fox News any further–too much danger of future violence against Americans. Heck, just google Glenn Beck and “Richard Poplawski.”
As for Reverend Wright… Here’s Sarah Palin being blessed by an *African Witch Doctor.* And check out the witch doctor’s views. They’re… um… interesting. Possibly even more interesting than decorated Vietnam Veteran Reverend Wright’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM
65 jakester // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:56 am
She is like a Clarence Thomas for women.
66 jakester // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:59 am
JimAk
more like you are making the same mistake. She is a rock star with a base of hard core fans, but who the rest of the genre music fans despise or ignore, like Bon Jovi or Guns and Roses.
67 jakester // Nov 24, 2009 at 3:01 am
Like I said from day 1, she is every Bubba’s fantasy hunting partner
68 sdspringy // Nov 24, 2009 at 5:38 am
Hound: That is an interesting comparasion. Sitting in Rev. Wrights church for 20 years equates to 2 days of a visiting pastor. Really 20 years for the left equal 2 days for the right.
And Palin also sat down to an interview with O’Reilly. Does that mean their equal.
69 Kevin B // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:16 am
You’re right. We really should be looking at Sarah Palin’s other pastors. What kinds of views did they have?
Did Palin pal around with other preachers who dispensed controversial rhetoric?
70 Stewardship // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:09 am
Sarah Palin will not be our (GOP) nominee in 2012. I don’t think she’ll accept the nomination of any party- tea or otherwise. She’s turned herself into an ATM. She lives in the last best place on earth. She’ll still command mid five digit speaking fees. She literally has the opportunity to set up her family and descendents for a life of privilige for generations.
I’m based near Grand Rapids, too, like MI-GOPer. The west Michigan home school families and Christian Reformed population (women more so than men) love her for her social values. I see Palin becoming a very wealthy and long lasting force in American politics via a new Moral Majority-type of organization. I can’t see anyone who puts faith and family first leaving that to be ground up like moose burger in national politics. Imagine Republican candidates making the pilgrimmage to Wasila every election cycle to ask for her blessing and a photo opp.
Americans made the mistake of electing someone highly unqualified as their president in 2008….someone who’s main experience was voting present 80+ times in a midwest state legislature. They aren’t going to make the same mistake in 2012, after surviving the Great Recession and seeing such a sea change in our Republic.
71 akw // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:11 am
LOL! Dave, does Axelrod pay you for these missives yet, or you still auditioning?
72 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:32 am
I kind of like to see the true flavor of our anti-woman, anti-success, anti-mom ranting and spewing far Left democrat activist trolls come forward on the palette like a bitter, burned brown sauce turned rancid in the frig. You trolls never change your act, you never disappoint.
Nothing in this typical far Left exchange and thread here is new except for those who told the democrat activist trolls here that a) Sarah Palin isn’t running for the 2012 nomination b) she can’t get it if she tried and she knows that just like HuckaBoom discovered as the 08 campaign wound down that he wouldn’t have a chance at 2012 and he was high & dry for supporters; and c) Sarah Palin has still has higher favorables than Obama Messiah –and his trending is down, her trending is up… and we’re only in the first week of her book tour.
The ones talking the loudest about a Sarah Palin run are the democrat activists here who unwisely dream that the GOP will toss away the nomination and give it to “America’s favorite hockey mom” and somehow insure a 3rd JimmyCarter term for Obama Messiah.
The spiteful, hatefilled, anti-woman, anti-success rants here are nothing more than troll nostalgia longing for the days when they could hurl bricks at the GOP glass houses and not worry about cleaning up the mess in the morning. Now the trolls’ team is in the hot seat of governing and they don’t get to toss bricks willy-nilly anymore… except at Palin, Cheney or maybe Mark Sanford.
“Stewardship” above has it exactly correct and no amount of wishful dreaming by the far Left will change the political reality. Who’s trending up? Sarah. Who’s trending down? Obama. Is that good for the GOP? You betcha! When the worst choice in the eyes of the democrat activists are beating their Boy on the court… it’s really good news for the GOP.
Is Sarah Palin a brilliant, learned, well seasoned leader for the 21stC? No. Has she and her family been raped by the far Left and MSM –who continue to do so to this day by some of the trolls on this site? Sure. Is it fair or decent? No. Is it part of the politics of personal destruction trend that the Clintons’ started? Yep.
And sinz54, try abridging your thoughts about when and what incident started the liberally biased media feeding frenzy on the Palins –you’re dead wrong it only “started after” her candid disclosures. The Palin announcement was made on Friday, Aug 29th. John Fund has documented in his column that the democrat trolls and lawyers –much of the same sleazy ilk & soulmates as we find here in this thread– were already in Wasilla looking for trash, beginning at the public library, that Sunday morning.
It didn’t have anything to do with Bristol or Levi or Trigg. The campaign had to get ahead of the story as soon as she was an announced candidate… and they did, that weekend in Dayton. For you to construct a rationalization that Bristol’s pregnancy was what started the feeding frenzy is either incredibly disingenuious and intellectually dishonest of you or just lame. I wouldn’t be surprised at either.
73 Sarah Palin comes to Virginia « Sweet Briar College { Bragaw } // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:37 am
[...] David Frum on Sarah Palin’s problem of credibility among [...]
74 DFL // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:37 am
I appreciate David Frum’s honesty. He let his own hatred of Sarah Palin really come through in this little piece. He seems to so dislike Mrs. Palin that he lets his emotional contempt for the woman get the better of his rationality. The next-to-last paragraph, with its undercurrent of hatred combined with general statements that are pretty shallow for a man who usually thinks in analytical terms, shows Mr. Frum at his worst just as his National Review piece condemning “unpatriotic conservatives”(who were more prescient than Bush and Cheney regarding Iraq, by the way) seven years ago. For whatever reasons, David Frum emotionally is absorbed with hatred for Sarah Palin. I think reasons why Mr. Frum and his friend David Brooks despise Mrs. Palin is that she associates with a rural, small town Norman Rockwellish America in opposition to an urbane, sophistated urban America. It also appears that her Christianity, not nearly as overt as George W. Bush’s, seems to disturb both men for some reason.
Sarah Palin has a huge segment of people who hate her. Most of these are liberals and female moderates. The clearest description of liberal hatred of Sarah Palin that I’ve come across actually was written yesterday on the Washington Post website at the Tucker Carlson-Ana Marie Cox Q & A where a liberal poster from Fairfax, VA explains: “We hate her because she is the emobodiment and logical conclusion of two disturbing trends in modern conservatism. First, the division by conservatives of the country into ‘Real Americans”, ie. them and other Americans, ie. us. The second and even more disturbing trend, which you can chart from Reagan to W to Palin, is the conservative belief that belief is all you need. That the common sense of the real people is truth, that facts are irrelevant and curiosity is pointless. While few people can actually achieve open-mindedness, at least liberals think it is a virtue, not a fatal flaw.”
Despite what Mr. Frum believes, Sarah Palin is broadly beloved by the conservative base, millions of whom are married women, by far the most conservative element of the female vote. She may be intellectually shallow but she is the personification of the conservative personality in a nation barren of conservative political leadership. With such “leaders” as Mitch McConnell, John Boehner and Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin has filled at vacuum, like it or not.
75 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:42 am
72 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:32 am
……still economizing on the Pepto I see
76 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:43 am
jakester offers:
“She is like a Clarence Thomas for women”
“She is a rock star with a base of hard core fans, but who the rest of the genre music fans despise or ignore, like Bon Jovi or Guns and Roses”
“Like I said from day 1, she is every Bubba’s fantasy hunting partner”
Jokester is a metaphor for the mindless cliche driven idiots who populate the far Left bridge of trolls.
77 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:46 am
Wow, speaking of mindless cliche driven idiots who populate the far Left bridge of trolls… oh look, kiddies, the Village Idiot has returned! Welcome automaticBSer… got those fresh DailyKos talking points at the ready?
The guy can’t even be original in his wide-of-the-mark taunts.
78 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:55 am
DFL // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:37 am
“…her Christianity, not nearly as overt as George W. Bush’s…”
To the contrary, as much as Bush wore his religion on his sleeve, this woman has it plastered all over her body. She invokes Jesus and the Lord far more often, and we also know that she allowed a preacher to perform some kind of Christiany voodoo ritual on her to “protect her from witchcraft.” (See youtube.) That’s pretty overt in my book.
79 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:02 am
As for Frum’s supposed “hatred” of Palin and his repeated posts about her, does it not occur to people that he’s probably driven more by a desire for site traffic than his distaste for her? She happens to be what people are talking about right now because of “Going Rogue” and the attendant book tour. Why shouldn’t he ride the coattails of that?
80 Lol GOP is playing hard ball - Page 48 - TRIBE - tribe.ca // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:11 am
[...] [...]
81 DFL // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:13 am
If I am wrong about Mrs. Palin’s overt Chistianity compared with Mr. Bush’s, it is because I watch very little television. However, I do not think Mrs. Palin has gone as far as naming Jesus Christ as her favorite philosopher as did George W. Bush.
82 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:19 am
DFL // Nov 24, 2009 at 9:37 am
“She may be intellectually shallow but she is the personification of the conservative personality in a nation barren of conservative political leadership.”
……..Couldn’t agree more……that’s her great appeal……she knows nothing, has no practical ideas for governance, expresses her thoughts such as they are in a disjointed jumble……Oh yes she’s the personification of the conservative personality that today dominates the Republican party….no doubt about it……….but do you really want such a person to run your family firm, act as executor of your will, or run the country?
83 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:25 am
CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:02 am
……a shrewd take…..it’s obvious that other threads where La Palin is the subject are exceptionally long……probably because not much substance is involved and they give those of the the diarrhoial tendency ample opportunity to pass their opinions onto others
84 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:28 am
DFL, you are correct. Don’t let the opinion of a highly suspect Democrat activist troll taint reality.
Of course, on the democrat team of our fake “Centrist”NYer, his buddies serving in Obama’s shop testify that their favorite philospher is Karl Marx… so I guess holding onto the greatest moral teacher as a model of philosophical wisdom and insight is still a tad better than embracing the guy who gave moral authority to the slaughter of 130+m people in the last century.
Perspective is a bitch for the far Left to grasp and hold, DFL. Don’t let them sway you with their usual fact-challenged spin.
85 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:33 am
More lies from the AutomaticBSer, our Village Idiot and resident troll.
In the recent “Reagan Never Went Rogue” Frum Fantasy Flack, 253 comments in the thread and 68% of them are attributable to your fellow TrollTribe members… either directly or in repsonse to nonsense your pals-in-intellectual-theft posted.
68%. When you’re wrong… you are so wrong it’s nearly criminal. Sad, petty little mind.
86 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:40 am
Here’s a video of Palin with her Kenyan preacher performing a voodoo style rite over her to “protect” her from “witchcraft.” If you have similar footage of Bush, please post it. Otherwise, case closed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOD5X68lIs
87 Kim // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:42 am
Hi David, Don’t worry! You’ll never have a problem with being popular. There aren’t many Republicans who want the GOP to lead a moderate wave to mediocrity. And of course the Democrats don’t like moderate Republicans either. If the Republican Party follows your direction and becomes a shadow of the Democrats, they’ll never win another election. Good luck with trying to get the GOP to go away.
88 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:45 am
sinz54 points out: “Favorability does NOT equal qualification to be President”.
You’re right. And I agree with your assessment. However, I didn’t say nor imply that Sarah Palin’s favorable ratings had anything to do with her capacity to serve as President. I said, here and elsewhere, that what sticks in the craw of all these democrat activist trolls is that Sarah Palin is pulling ahead of Obama on favorables… as well as her earlier polling showed the residual effect of adverse campaign carnage brought forth by the liberally biased, pro-Obama MSM. She’s overcoming all that adverse publicity and negative political hackery by telling her story, showing her humanity, sharing her life and letting Americans see she is a genuine, competent thoughtful person.
Stick to what I’ve said –not what you want to think I may have said, ok?
89 MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:54 am
“centrist”NYer continues to read from the Clinton playbook on the politics of personal destruction…
Of course, we can also look into Obama’s close personal associations with a minister who regularly taught from the pulpit that white people were “Satan’s pride” and that the US govt brought AIDS into the black prostitution industry to zap the “black sweetness” of the negro loins. I doubt that we need to look at a visiting preacher –we can just look at the Church’s founder and personal friend and mentor of the Obamas… before they tossed his butt under the Obama Bus.
Damning white America wasn’t Rev Wright’s greatest sin… it’s that he ripped off so many poor black families to build his palace in Whitey’s Land and Barry Obama went along for the political benefit of being associated with a Black Liberation Profit… ooops, Prophet.
A visiting preacher from a small village in Africa? Get a life, “centrist”… you’ve done the democrat activist troll thing for too long here.
90 rsposato // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:01 am
Anyone who can look at Sarah Palin and say she is unqualified to be president, with the presidetn we currently have in office, is not only short-sighted, but damn near blind!!
There is absolutely no way she could possibly be any worse than what we have.
91 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:02 am
MI-GOPer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:54 am
“centrist”NYer continues to read from the Clinton playbook on the politics of personal destruction… ”
Are you this big a drama queen in real life?
92 Like It Or Not, Sarah Palin IS The #1 Republican | The Rude News // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:07 am
[...] like David Frum want Sarah Palin to fail very quickly. The milquetoast country club set can’t wait for Sarah [...]
93 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:08 am
CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:02 am
“Are you this big a drama queen in real life?’
……Imagine spending a week on a sailboat with this guy……or a golfing weekend…….all those Mulligan arguments!
94 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:09 am
“rsposato // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:01 am
Anyone who can look at Sarah Palin and say she is unqualified to be president, with the presidetn we currently have in office, is not only short-sighted, but damn near blind!!
There is absolutely no way she could possibly be any worse than what we have.”
…….the martians have landed
95 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:15 am
ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:08 am
“Imagine spending a week on a sailboat with this guy”
Um, do I have to?
96 Have Coffee Will Write » Blog Archive » WHAT THEY SAY… // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:16 am
[...] David Frum: If you like Palin – well go ahead. It’s a free country. But quit saying that “the people” [...]
97 akw // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:29 am
CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 10:40 am
Here’s a video of Palin with her Kenyan preacher performing a voodoo style rite over her to “protect” her from “witchcraft.” If you have similar footage of Bush, please post it. Otherwise, case closed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOD5X68lIs
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Do you even know the back story to that video? Let me fill you in. Palin was running for governor and she was invited to visit her old church one Sunday. There was a visiting African minister who offered to pray over her to keep the “evil spirits” from thwarting her campaign. It wasn’t her church or her preacher. He wasn’t exorcising demons from her or working voodoo spells. He was PRAYING. In many areas of Africa, they believe that evil spirits cause people to do evil things. I’m beginning to think that they’re correct, or maybe I’ve just been on this blog too long.
98 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:34 am
akw // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:29 am
“There was a visiting African minister who offered to pray over her to keep the “evil spirits” from thwarting her campaign.”
And she couldn’t have said, “thanks, but no thanks”?
99 Demosthenes // Nov 24, 2009 at 11:41 am
You hit it on the head, Mr. Frum. My conservative friends (male, do I need to add?) all love her looks. Her politics are of some interest, but Palin’s lack of competence/experience/intelligence are irrelevant to these groupies. They just see “starburts” when the lovely Ms. Palin appears.
100 TallChick // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Mr. Frum has statistics to back him up, but here’s a gut reaction from a George Bush republican who likes reading NRO and Townhall.
1. I thought of Ms. Palin as a former high school basketball player than a beauty queen. Sarah Barracuda is a great nickname for a point guard.
2. I respect that she worked her way up from the president of the PTA to the governor of Alaska.
3. She had to go against the Old Boys’ Network to do it. First, she resigned from a board so that she could protest its policies and then she took on the sitting governor in the Republican primary.
4. She governed as a pragmatist and enjoyed extremely high approval ratings.
Maybe she isn’t quite presidential timber, but I was happier about pulling the lever for McCain with her on the ticket. She had the most executive experience of anyone on either ticket.
101 NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Could it be that David is worried that Sarah is going to get all the good looking men and leave none for him???? I prefer to think that David is another elitist who doesn’t get how 60% of America hates the unholy cabal of media/political and intellectual elitists and doesn’t understand why we are tired of having them tell us what’s good for us and do as we’re told…the times, they are a changing, David….
102 DFL // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I think you are about right about Sarah Palin, TallChick.
Sarah Palin was a fine governor of one of the more unusual states of the union, a state loaded with natural resources, a small, very white population, and no income tax. At this stage, she is shallow intellectually and apparently has no brain-trust beyond her fisherman-roughneck husband, Todd. That she has a fairly good chance of winning the Republican nomination in 2012 shows not only how barren the talent is in the Republican Party but the mental exhaustion of the GOP.
103 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 1:06 pm
NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:41 pm
“I prefer to think that David is another elitist.”
What is the absolutely pathological obsession on Frum Forum with this word “elitist”? It’s like when a child discovers a curse word, really doesn’t understand what it means and yet can’t stop saying it over and over again.
And why would you “prefer” to think of David this way? What crazy joy do you get from imputing motivations that are way off base? Why is that if you can’t accept some people (aka most of the country) simply find Palin shallow, bereft of seriousness and not suited intellectually or temperamentally for the Oval Office? What’s wrong with wanting someone talented and above average to run the country? Why is that “elitist”?
104 David Frum: “the people” don’t love Sarah Palin « Lactose-Free Thoughts // Nov 24, 2009 at 1:48 pm
[...] “If you like Palin – well go ahead. It’s a free country. But quit saying that ‘the people’ love Sarah Palin.” Why? Read the whole column here. [...]
105 NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:14 pm
CentristNYer
What’s wrong with wanting someone talented and above average to run the country? Why is that “elitist”?
This is how we got Barack Obama to be President….sycophantic-elitists from both sides of the aisle elected one of their own….no more lawyers….no more Harvard/Yale/Princeton surrender-monkeys allowed!
106 NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Sarah is climbing in the Rassmusen Poll:
Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Republican voters say former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin shares the values of most GOP voters throughout the nation.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 21% of Republican voters disagree and think the 2008 vice presidential candidate does not share their values. Twenty percent (20%) are undecided.
107 CentristNYer // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:31 pm
NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:14 pm
“This is how we got Barack Obama to be President….sycophantic-elitists from both sides of the aisle elected one of their own….no more lawyers….no more Harvard/Yale/Princeton surrender-monkeys allowed!”
That’s what I thought: you really don’t have an answer. You’ve got a World Net Daily talking point.
108 NC-Czar // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:37 pm
RE: CentristNYer
I don’t read the WND Talking points like you do. I do admit taking a term from Homer Simpson when he called the French, “cheese-eating, surrender-monkeys” and in acquiring the later-term, I added the prelude myself….contrary to your opinion, I can read and put together thoughts on my own accord.
109 ottovbvs // Nov 24, 2009 at 5:38 pm
TallChick // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“Mr. Frum has statistics to back him up, but here’s a gut reaction from a George Bush republican who likes reading NRO and Townhall.”
…….What are statistics when you have objective commetary from NRO and Townhall
“This is how we got Barack Obama to be President….sycophantic-elitists from both sides of the aisle elected one of their own….no more lawyers….no more Harvard/Yale/Princeton surrender-monkeys allowed!”
…….The highly intelligent, highly educated and competent are barred from the presidency…… or at least the Republican nomination for the presidency…..only nincompoops need apply
“Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Republican voters say former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin shares the values of most GOP voters throughout the nation.”
…….That’s no secret……. she is an optimal representative of two thirds of today’s Republican party
110 sinz54 // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:14 pm
TallChick:
That why my expectations for the next President were so low, whether his last name would turn out to be Obama or McCain.
I had no confidence that any of these clowns could run a trillion-dollar enterprise like the U.S. Government.
111 sinz54 // Nov 24, 2009 at 7:17 pm
MI-GOPer:
Actually, what sticks in their craw is that they can’t figure out a way to bludgeon the half of America who doesn’t approve of Obama’s policies into shutting up and allowing liberals to run the country any way they want.
112 Count Your Blessings « Just Above Sunset // Nov 25, 2009 at 2:41 am
[...] David Frum explains: [...]
113 sinz54 // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:49 am
sdspringy:
Humility has been notably lacking in the political campaigns of the Religious Right.
The clear implication has been that social conservatives believe that they are MORALLY superior to liberal morals and to the “gay lifestyle” and so on.
You made moral superiority into a political stance. And so if you fall short morally, you are going to fall short politically.
114 sinz54 // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:51 am
balconesfault:
No.
The piling on began with the revelations about Bristol. It was already happening by the time Palin formally accepted the GOP nomination at the convention.
115 sinz54 // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:55 am
anniemargaret:
As someone who spent most of his career in large corporations, I can tell you this:
No one is more hated by female employees, than a female who uses her sex appeal to win raises and promotions from male bosses. In fact, these days it could be construed as sexual harassment.
116 sinz54 // Nov 25, 2009 at 10:59 am
MI-GOPer:
But every political party does opposition research on every opposition candidate.
The media started piling on long before this opposition research in Wasilla had found anything. The revelation that Bristol was pregnant was a bombshell. Gleeful liberals at HuffPo and other liberal blogs ran with it immediately. So did Andrew Sullivan.
Had the Dems found something about the Alaska pipeline or political deals Palin had made, it wouldn’t have made such a splash. But the daughter of a social conservative having a baby out of wedlock? Liberals actually SAID that was too “delicious” (their word) to pass up.
I repeat: Go read the archives of the blogs from back then, go read Google News from back then. Use archive.org if you must.
117 Sarah Palin's Book Tour: Scenes from the Class Struggle | Nonsense News // Dec 2, 2009 at 9:59 am
[...] …Because that’s the percentage of Americans who believe that Sarah Heath Palin is qualified to be President of these United [...]
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