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	<title>Comments on: Ron Paul’s Liberal Republican Base</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-133067</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-133067</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m never answered.  nobody can refute my basic assumptions.  you libs hate me, but can&#039;t say say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m never answered.  nobody can refute my basic assumptions.  you libs hate me, but can&#8217;t say say.</p>
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		<title>By: busboy33</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-133026</link>
		<dc:creator>busboy33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-133026</guid>
		<description>&quot;i won’t stop posting because i find it amusing.&quot;

As do we all Willy.

As do we all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;i won’t stop posting because i find it amusing.&#8221;</p>
<p>As do we all Willy.</p>
<p>As do we all.</p>
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		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-132178</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-132178</guid>
		<description>i won&#039;t stop posting because i find it amusing.

i&#039;m sure many of you are successful in your personal lives and careers.  some of you probably have incredible knowledge in different fields and specialties.  the talent pool is evidently quite high, just based on the ability to rationalize...  we have at least one person - msmilack - who claims to have been an ivy league professor of english (is that right?).  i love literature, but my LORD, what depressing politics this english professor has!

having said that, i find your civic knowledge almost non-existent - that is, it is all based on emotion - and civic beliefs borderline nihilistic.  you are &quot;liberals&quot; with a lower-case &quot;l.&quot;  you share nothing in common with 18th and 19th century liberals, who strove for explanatory theories on what allowed civilization to flourish.  arguments i find here are not theoretically sound or even historically defensible - they are ad hoc, fear based, or class-based pandering.

to shunt some of the likely criticism: no, the advancement of theoretical arguments is not &quot;ideological.&quot;  at least no more ideological than newtonian physics.  sure, theory is at times wrong.  but the job is to refine the theory, not to carelessly throw it out the window and declare all theory invalid because it supposes some predictability.

for example, you libs claim to want to expand health care access.  to accomplish this, you propose a complicated, complex, confusing, and maddening scheme of government panels, price control boards, tolerance levels, comparative effectiveness research, redistribution, and the application of coercion to force insurers to pay for relatively minor procedures, or worse, cosmetic surgery.

now, we know that all these measures will send the price of health care UP, thus reducing access.  yet, despite all the evidence and theory to the contrary, libs continually insist on such measures, and finally the panacea of fully socialized medicine.

WHY?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i won&#8217;t stop posting because i find it amusing.</p>
<p>i&#8217;m sure many of you are successful in your personal lives and careers.  some of you probably have incredible knowledge in different fields and specialties.  the talent pool is evidently quite high, just based on the ability to rationalize&#8230;  we have at least one person &#8211; msmilack &#8211; who claims to have been an ivy league professor of english (is that right?).  i love literature, but my LORD, what depressing politics this english professor has!</p>
<p>having said that, i find your civic knowledge almost non-existent &#8211; that is, it is all based on emotion &#8211; and civic beliefs borderline nihilistic.  you are &#8220;liberals&#8221; with a lower-case &#8220;l.&#8221;  you share nothing in common with 18th and 19th century liberals, who strove for explanatory theories on what allowed civilization to flourish.  arguments i find here are not theoretically sound or even historically defensible &#8211; they are ad hoc, fear based, or class-based pandering.</p>
<p>to shunt some of the likely criticism: no, the advancement of theoretical arguments is not &#8220;ideological.&#8221;  at least no more ideological than newtonian physics.  sure, theory is at times wrong.  but the job is to refine the theory, not to carelessly throw it out the window and declare all theory invalid because it supposes some predictability.</p>
<p>for example, you libs claim to want to expand health care access.  to accomplish this, you propose a complicated, complex, confusing, and maddening scheme of government panels, price control boards, tolerance levels, comparative effectiveness research, redistribution, and the application of coercion to force insurers to pay for relatively minor procedures, or worse, cosmetic surgery.</p>
<p>now, we know that all these measures will send the price of health care UP, thus reducing access.  yet, despite all the evidence and theory to the contrary, libs continually insist on such measures, and finally the panacea of fully socialized medicine.</p>
<p>WHY?</p>
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		<title>By: Cato</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-132158</link>
		<dc:creator>Cato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-132158</guid>
		<description>Of course the key to the survey and this article, is how do you define &quot;conservative&quot;?  Labels have become meaningless as the word means much different things to many different people.  Based on the results, it appears most polled were neoconservatives that equate conservative with empire, militarism and Israel and an acceptance of big government to accomodate the previous goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the key to the survey and this article, is how do you define &#8220;conservative&#8221;?  Labels have become meaningless as the word means much different things to many different people.  Based on the results, it appears most polled were neoconservatives that equate conservative with empire, militarism and Israel and an acceptance of big government to accomodate the previous goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Krom</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-132094</link>
		<dc:creator>Krom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-132094</guid>
		<description>Fine, then stop posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, then stop posting.</p>
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		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-131998</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-131998</guid>
		<description>and you know what, you might find me annoying and unspecific.  i&#039;ve tried being very specific, and the arguments just get mired in he said/she said antics.  in the case of referring specifically to obama&#039;s mentors and &quot;spiritual adviser,&quot; i&#039;m told that it&#039;s no longer important.  right, 20+ years as a radical doesn&#039;t mean anything once you translate that into electoral success.

if i try to get technical, i lose the audience due to ignorance.  plainly, few people here are conversant in even basic economic principles.  supply and demand to you people is a bourgeois tool to oppress the masses. (what do i mean? look at the entire healthcare debate.  you libs want to lower costs while restricting supply.  oh sure, you say you&#039;re expanding access by reducing prices.  but it never occurs to you that you&#039;ll only create a shortage.  micro 101.)  if i try to talk about monetary policy or the effects of inflation, you are stupefied and disinterested.

 if i refer to history, i&#039;m told my examples do not apply to this day and age.  FDR, i&#039;m told, was a wise and caring leader.  i&#039;m told that capitalism had its day and was ushered away due to terrible &quot;environmental&quot; abuses and abuses toward labor.  i&#039;m told that private property is so 19th century, and that we should be more enlightened and share what little we have.

so yes, i find the discussion wanting.  i find a bunch of liberals, who still don&#039;t know exactly how to think about politics/government/society.  whatever sounds good to them and their friends must be good, and the herd carries me and the rest of the conservatives off the depression cliff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and you know what, you might find me annoying and unspecific.  i&#8217;ve tried being very specific, and the arguments just get mired in he said/she said antics.  in the case of referring specifically to obama&#8217;s mentors and &#8220;spiritual adviser,&#8221; i&#8217;m told that it&#8217;s no longer important.  right, 20+ years as a radical doesn&#8217;t mean anything once you translate that into electoral success.</p>
<p>if i try to get technical, i lose the audience due to ignorance.  plainly, few people here are conversant in even basic economic principles.  supply and demand to you people is a bourgeois tool to oppress the masses. (what do i mean? look at the entire healthcare debate.  you libs want to lower costs while restricting supply.  oh sure, you say you&#8217;re expanding access by reducing prices.  but it never occurs to you that you&#8217;ll only create a shortage.  micro 101.)  if i try to talk about monetary policy or the effects of inflation, you are stupefied and disinterested.</p>
<p> if i refer to history, i&#8217;m told my examples do not apply to this day and age.  FDR, i&#8217;m told, was a wise and caring leader.  i&#8217;m told that capitalism had its day and was ushered away due to terrible &#8220;environmental&#8221; abuses and abuses toward labor.  i&#8217;m told that private property is so 19th century, and that we should be more enlightened and share what little we have.</p>
<p>so yes, i find the discussion wanting.  i find a bunch of liberals, who still don&#8217;t know exactly how to think about politics/government/society.  whatever sounds good to them and their friends must be good, and the herd carries me and the rest of the conservatives off the depression cliff.</p>
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		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-131989</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-131989</guid>
		<description>the proof is in the pudding.  he&#039;s a terrible president overseeing the worst economic recovery since 1932 and losing our european and israeli allies.

so fine, you think a few paltry, undistinguished years as a legislator qualify him as experience.  i disagree.  i point to his failure as president.

although, alternatively, he is doing a spectacular job at transforming america into a third world, tin pot dictatorship.  gutting the industrial and commercial base through massive legislation that he doesn&#039;t bother to read, outsourced to pelosi and reid, he chases away industry as few others could.

but sure.  he did some time in the illinois state senate.  his most remarkable vote was one in favor of partial birth abortion.  as a U.S. senator, i can&#039;t name one bill he authored.

look, we&#039;re not talking about ted kennedy.  we&#039;re not even talking about tom daschle.  we&#039;re talking about an underwhelming legislator with deep socialist roots.

you may not find any of this pertinent to the discussion anymore.  however, lift the veil and you&#039;ll notice that he is acting precisely as an incognito socialist would act.  and he&#039;s dragging you and me down with the rest of the citizens.

oh, and not to mention, he&#039;s now losing the war.  great.  i&#039;m so glad mccain isn&#039;t in office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the proof is in the pudding.  he&#8217;s a terrible president overseeing the worst economic recovery since 1932 and losing our european and israeli allies.</p>
<p>so fine, you think a few paltry, undistinguished years as a legislator qualify him as experience.  i disagree.  i point to his failure as president.</p>
<p>although, alternatively, he is doing a spectacular job at transforming america into a third world, tin pot dictatorship.  gutting the industrial and commercial base through massive legislation that he doesn&#8217;t bother to read, outsourced to pelosi and reid, he chases away industry as few others could.</p>
<p>but sure.  he did some time in the illinois state senate.  his most remarkable vote was one in favor of partial birth abortion.  as a U.S. senator, i can&#8217;t name one bill he authored.</p>
<p>look, we&#8217;re not talking about ted kennedy.  we&#8217;re not even talking about tom daschle.  we&#8217;re talking about an underwhelming legislator with deep socialist roots.</p>
<p>you may not find any of this pertinent to the discussion anymore.  however, lift the veil and you&#8217;ll notice that he is acting precisely as an incognito socialist would act.  and he&#8217;s dragging you and me down with the rest of the citizens.</p>
<p>oh, and not to mention, he&#8217;s now losing the war.  great.  i&#8217;m so glad mccain isn&#8217;t in office.</p>
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		<title>By: msmilack</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-131835</link>
		<dc:creator>msmilack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-131835</guid>
		<description>anniemargret

dreamland is a nice place to recover from the news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anniemargret</p>
<p>dreamland is a nice place to recover from the news.</p>
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		<title>By: mickster99</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-131790</link>
		<dc:creator>mickster99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-131790</guid>
		<description>I agree with Colbert that Frum is indeed &quot;the balls of the Republican Party&quot;.  However, I believe Stephen also said that regrettably they are the cajones of a chihuahua.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Colbert that Frum is indeed &#8220;the balls of the Republican Party&#8221;.  However, I believe Stephen also said that regrettably they are the cajones of a chihuahua.</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/ron-pauls-liberal-republican-base/comment-page-2#comment-131676</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=38810#comment-131676</guid>
		<description>-msmilack:  I sometimes think perhaps we would do better as a nation if we didn&#039;t have a two party system where everyone must get tightly locked into a woven tapestry of half-lies, half-truths, and exaggerations.   I suspect there are moments where liberals might think conservatives have hit on a truth, and sometimes conservatives think liberals hit on a truth.  

Or &#039;truthiness&#039; as Colbert would say.  Great word. 

But of course we can&#039;t go there.  I&#039;ve seen some real honesty on this blog, and I always admire it, whether it comes from the right, left or the middle.  It would be better to just vote for an individual that embodies all that a person admires or desires in a leader and then them all try for the Brass Ring!  The fact that what you say, that people who disagree with the party line, or admits the other side (might) occasionally speak the truth, but get trashed for it, says a lot about our national conversation.  

(more like a screaming match!)

But that&#039;s in Dreamland...but I occasionally go there when the news just gets too depressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-msmilack:  I sometimes think perhaps we would do better as a nation if we didn&#8217;t have a two party system where everyone must get tightly locked into a woven tapestry of half-lies, half-truths, and exaggerations.   I suspect there are moments where liberals might think conservatives have hit on a truth, and sometimes conservatives think liberals hit on a truth.  </p>
<p>Or &#8216;truthiness&#8217; as Colbert would say.  Great word. </p>
<p>But of course we can&#8217;t go there.  I&#8217;ve seen some real honesty on this blog, and I always admire it, whether it comes from the right, left or the middle.  It would be better to just vote for an individual that embodies all that a person admires or desires in a leader and then them all try for the Brass Ring!  The fact that what you say, that people who disagree with the party line, or admits the other side (might) occasionally speak the truth, but get trashed for it, says a lot about our national conversation.  </p>
<p>(more like a screaming match!)</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s in Dreamland&#8230;but I occasionally go there when the news just gets too depressing.</p>
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