Res Judicata: Who Pays for the Immigrants in Texas?

October 3rd, 2011 at 10:37 am | 101 Comments |

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Illegal immigrants cost the State of Texas (including its local governments) $8.8 billion per year. This is a staggering sum of money brought about by a steady flow of illegals obtaining public education, criminal justice, and medical care. It amounts to nearly 10% of the State’s total annual expenditures of approximately $90 billion. And 60,000 children of illegal immigrants are born in Texas each year.

Gov. Rick Perry has never said a word in public about this drag on his state’s finances. And given his comments at the last Republican presidential debate we know why. He does not see it as a drag on his state’s finances. He seems to believe the presence of illegal immigrants is a net plus to Texas, particularly if they attend its state universities.

According to the FAIR study, the costs of illegal immigrants outweigh their payment of taxes by 3-1. So why does the governor believe subsidizing tuition for illegal immigrants at Texas state universities is good public policy? He did not say. He merely dismissed those who oppose such subsidizes as heartless. This is absurd. I assume if an errant employee in the state treasurer’s office were embezzling $8.8 billion per year the Governor would put an immediate stop to it, and his failure to do so would trigger an investigation. Why is this different?

It’s different because there is a powerful group in Texas benefitting from the influx of immigrants. The more we learn about the “job growth” in Texas, the more we see who the beneficiaries of the Governor’s policies are. Fully 81% of the jobs created in the state since 2007 are held by immigrants, and half of them are illegally in the country. Immigrants tend to work in low-pay jobs including fast food, poultry processing, and construction.

If these are the jobs the Texas economy is producing, then this is not a model for the rest of the country to emulate. The economy’s very low demand for new workers is felt across the board, not just in these industries. So the expansion of employment by low-wage workers is not the sign of a healthy economy. Rather, Perry has abetted what economists call a moral hazard, a situation where a party, here, employers of low wage workers, engage in risky illegal behavior without regard for its consequences: the loss of employment for American citizens as well as higher state taxes to pay for the illegals.

Mitt Romney is running as proponent of immigration law enforcement. Or so he states when asked. But he is vague on the details. What to do with the millions of illegal immigrants here? Experts in the field of immigration enforcement like to say the illegals will leave voluntarily if they are deprived of employment, the magnet that draws them here in the first instance. This is called “enforcement by attrition.” Romney needs to spell out the details of a plan for stepped-up enforcement by DHS against employers who hire illegal immigrants. The Obama administration has curtailed such efforts to occasional “audits” of the employment files a tiny number of companies which are flagrantly violating the law. But all the Obama DHS demands of the employers is that they terminate the illegal workers. Generally, the employers are not fined, and the illegal workers simply obtain employment somewhere else, without any sanction whatsoever. This is intended to give the illusion of workplace enforcement. To make enforcement by attrition work, we need thousands of new DHS audits of employers in the industries I’ve identified above, and to follow up those audits with deportations of the illegal workers and criminal sanctions on the employers.

We could also encourage illegal immigrants to leave the country voluntarily by depriving them of public services. Such a policy would require changing the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) signed into law by President Reagan as part of the COBRA in 1985. It requires hospital emergency rooms participating in the Medicare program (virtually all hospitals) to treat everyone who appears regardless of their ability to pay for care. There should be no duty to provide emergency care to people in the country illegally. Doing so is flatly inconsistent with the “compelling government interest to remove the incentive for illegal immigration provided by the availability of public benefits.”

As the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals recognized, “the reason Congress enacted EMTALA in large part was because states generally had not made tort remedies available for the refusal to provide emergency care.” That is to say, American law does not require hospitals to provide care to people who can’t pay for it. Thus, people deprived of care have no cause of action in court against the hospitals or doctors who refuse to treat them for free. So Congress created such a legal right to sue in EMTALA. It was one of Reagan’s errors to sign it into law.

There are many who argue that refusing to treat anyone is immoral. That is a misplaced view. People present in the country should not gain an entitlement to care as a reward for their own prior law-breaking. Romney should phrase his position in these terms, protecting the taxpayers, and he can take the moral highground. And now he can point to Alabama’s new law, just upheld in relevant part by a federal judge over the vociferous objections of the Obama Justice Department, which invalidates any contracts entered into by illegal immigrants in the state, requires public schools to inquire as to the immigration status of students, and forbids the state from providing services to them.

This does not affect the obligations of Alabama hospitals under EMTALA, as that is a federal law. But it is the first state law to address this problem. Initial reports indicate illegal indicate aliens are fleeing Alabama, an a farmer who relies on them to pick his crops, wailed to CBS Thursday yesterday that the only alternative to illegal immigration is “to quit eating.” Apparently no workers showed up at his farm the day after the Alabama law was upheld, and rather accept the unpleasant fact that the jig is up, and basic economics will require him to pay more to attract legal workers, he took to the airwaves to propagate the lie that Americans won’t do unpleasant work. Readers should recall that sewer workers are overwhelmingly white and native born, albeit paid up to $70,000 per year.

Recent Posts by Howard Foster



101 Comments so far ↓

  • Going Forward

    You claim that Perry calling those opposing the subsidies to be absurd, and then go on to suggest that hospitals refuse emergency care to sick individuals, presumably including children. That is, methinks, a damn good example of heartlessness.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    According to the FAIR study, the costs of illegal immigrants outweigh their payment of taxes by 3-1.

    Dear lord, what a moronic statement. Um…we are more than just the taxes we pay Howie. So they cost 8.8 billion in services, but how much do they add to the aggregate economy, how many goods and services do they produce?

    And how about you then getting off your shiny white ass and pick those vegetables yourself? Don’t you realize showing workers performing back breaking labor under a hot southern sun for little pay completely undercuts your entire thesis?

    Look, I am for restricting illegal immigration, but the simple fact is we need these farm workers, so streamline temporary work visas for these workers, don’t pretend that Howies spoiled kids are going to pick veggies if we get rid of them.

    • PracticalGirl

      In addition to the bottom-level agricultural jobs, there are the vast numbers of Texans who employ illegal labor within their households. I was at a Home Depot the other day and had to giggle at the number of trucks with Bush/Cheney stickers still on them that pulled up to load in the labor from the lot.

      It’s also interesting to hear the outrage in the people over the illegals “taking over”, and then ask the question: Who cleans your pool? Takes care of your landscaping, your housecleaning, even (in many cases-bilingual a plus here) your children? People, flatly, get sort of pissed off. Why shouldn’t they “take advantage” of a problem caused by the Feds? Why should it be their responsibility to make sure that they’re hiring US citizens? This isn’t just true in Texas. It’s a disconnect that exists in states all over the Southwest and in many other pockets of the country:

      People “see” the problem. They just don’t see that they are a part of it.

      • armstp

        I have seen a moron proudly flying his Teabagger flag while Mexicans were cutting his grass. The “right” are always hypocrites on everything.

        • John Bowman

          No, only about 10% of the “right” are hypocrits. It’s the 10% who support Rick Perry.

      • Bosco

        100+ Congresspeople posed proudly in front of stimulus infrastructure projects each voted against funding. I figure if the money’s there, it’s only fair.

        Undocumented workers are decried by the same folks who hire them. Hey, if a cheaper worker is there, it’s only fair to keep prices down.

  • MSheridan

    Several points:

    1. Mr. Foster gives the impression that the current Administration has been lax when it comes to doing something about illegal immigration. It is not, at least compared to previous administrations. Border security is tighter and the rate of deportations has been approximately twice as high, although the demographic primarily targeted has been those illegal immigrants with criminal convictions.

    2. I agree with Mr. Foster that penalties for employers hiring undocumented workers should be greater. However, I haven’t seen any sign that there is sufficient political will for this on either side of the aisle. The money of those employers has a lot of clout. So long as the local and national Chambers of Commerce are against enforcement, I don’t see change as likely to happen, at least until a well-organized popular coalition is formed. And I don’t think such a coalition would make headway unless it avoided demonizing illegal immigrants and instead concentrated solely on the people who hire them.

    3. I could not disagree more with Mr. Foster’s stance on withholding medical care to people who show up at emergency rooms. From a moral standpoint I think it abominable and from a practical standpoint I think it impracticable and damaging to public health efforts.

    • John Bowman

      Deportations are not “twice as high”, because the current administration is counting them differently, they are including illegals caught crossing the border and immediately repatriated, before those “voluntary returns” were not counted.

  • Graychin

    Like Frump points out, the essay is based on a false premise.

    If we sent all illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the Texas economy would collapse completely. For example, who would be picking the crops in that field shown in your picture? How about you, Mr. Foster?

    People cross the border illegally for only one reason – to WORK! Their labor contributes mightily to whatever prosperity the rest of us enjoy. Mr. Foster, is your value to society measured by the taxes that you pay? Is General Electric of any value to society at all?

    If you really, seriously want to get rid of all illegal immigrants residing in America, the answer is very simple – deny them jobs. How? Enforce severe penalties on employers who hire illegals. SEVERE penalties. Then listen to your “job creator” Republican friends at the Chamber of Commerce whine and squeal about how government isn’t “business friendly.”

    • bartlebee

      Graychin wrote: “If we sent all illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the Texas economy would collapse completely.”

      Not if I use my magic wand to bring in enough legal guest workers to replace all of the illegal immigrants that somebody else sends home with their magic wand.

  • armstp

    Howard,

    You lost me on the very first sentence. You get your numbers from FAIR? That is nothing but a anti-immigrant propaganda outfit. They are not credible. Why not get your numbers from somewhere a little more credible, objective and geniuine like say a well know university, etc.

    So FAIR is saying immigrants cost Texas $8.8 bn. Lets assume that number is even right. Is that a net or gross number; ie. do they subtract the taxes those immigrants pay or the economic benefits from that immigrant labor? I think not. Not only is the number itself bullshit, but also the cost-benefit analysis has no “benefit” and only considers the so-called cost.

    50% of illegals pay full federal and state income taxes and all illegals pay consumption taxes. Most studies show that illegals pretty much, particularly over the long-run, take-out no more than they put in regarding government services and the taxes they pay.

    “During their working life, undocumented immigrants in the United States will pay, on average, approximately $80,000 more in taxes per capita than they use in government services, owing to the fact that they are not eligible to take advantage of almost all of the social service programs offered by the federal government, according to a study released by the National Council of La Raza….

    The report cites the Texas Comptroller’s disclosure that, in 2006, undocumented immigrants paid about $424.7 million more in state revenues – including sales tax and school property tax – than they used in state services, including education and health care.”

    So maybe La Raza report is not the most objective, but this report was originally based on a report by the President’s Council of Economic Advisors done in 2007, which was during the Bush years.

    “According to the report, in June of 2007, the president’s Council of Economic Advisers stated that the “impact of undocumented immigration on public budgets is likely to be very positive.” ”

    Here is a link to the original Bush Admin report:

    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html

    “Our review of economic research finds immigrants not only help fuel the Nation’s economic growth, but also have an overall positive effect on the income of native-born workers.”

    -Council of Economic Advisers Chairman Edward P. Lazear

    I could go on and on with other studies about the cost of immigrants and how much taxes they pay.

    • shiznitoincognito

      Not to mention the much more difficult to quantify slightly longer term entrepreneurial activities that bring about even more gains to our society. Also, you forgot to mention that one of his citations is from the Center for Immigration Studies, which has to be just as bad. I’m no shrink, but I can’t help but suspect that Mark Kirkorian (sp?) has some sort of self-hatred going on with his own Armenian ancestry (sounds Mayflowerish, no?) to be so vehemently anti-immigration.

      At the core of the author’s proposals, there is an essential truth in that not controlling our borders is not the wisest long term policy and that we should have a more sound policy, but these arguments that demonize illegal immigrants (and their children!) who come here to work (not to siphon off the productivity of America) and ignore a serious review of the economics and history surrounding immigration are not going to get us to a more reasonable, fair and reliable system.

      Finally, denying care? What?! Sorry, but this is 2011. Where is the human decency? What planet does the author live on? What sort of sheltered point of view would give someone that idea? Denying care ‘to protect the taxpayers’ will not give anyone any sort of moral authority. At least act like we are all human.

      • armstp

        FAIR and CIS are basically the same organizations. They were set-up by a racist and get their funding from the same sources.

        “FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the “puppeteer” of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots…CIS was conceived by Tanton and began life as a program of FAIR. CIS presents itself as a scholarly think tank that produces serious immigration studies meant to serve “the broad national interest.” But the reality is that CIS has never found any aspect of immigration that it liked, and it has frequently manipulated data to achieve the results it seeks.”

    • MSheridan

      First off, I agree with everything you wrote. Undocumented workers DO add a lot to our economy. Moreover, the majority of them have a work ethic that puts our native-born citizens to shame. However, I disagree with what seemed to be underlying premise that we should not be concerned with their presence. Until and unless there is a system set up that allows much greater numbers of workers to come here legally (perhaps on a track for citizenship) and that also safeguards their rights, the presence of the undocumented is unbalancing in several ways. Labor rights and pay, public health, and crime (both by and against them) are all issues that will challenge us so long as they have good reason to be reluctant to have dealings with the authorities. Additionally, our current system dependes upon our southern neighbors’ economic weakness. It is dangerous to assume that this state of affairs will continue forever.

      • armstp

        Illegal immigration was never an issue in this country and “illegal” immigration has been around since the beginning.

        It has only become an issue in recent years, as those on the “right” have made it a purely political wedge issue.

        Most reputable studies say that illegal immigrants contribute positively to the economy, likely help create more jobs than they take away from U.S. citizens, are responsible for less crime than U.S. citizens (they tend to hide in the shadows and don’t want to attract attention), use public healthcare less than average U.S. citizens (illegals tend to be younger and healthier), etc. They pay their fair share of taxes contributing to Social Security and Medicare and never get to take-out of these programs. Etc. etc. They may use the education system for their kids, but they pay for it with the taxes they pay.

        • MSheridan

          Illegal immigration has NOT been around since the beginning, as there were no laws limiting it at all for quite a long time. Further, even before those laws were put in place, there were those who made immigration a wedge issue. Think of the Know-Nothing Party of Lincoln’s day.

          All the facts you cite I know. However, I do not take from them that we should ignore illegal immigration. I take from them that we should make it easier for people to come here legally, whether as guest workers with well-defined rights (and responsibilities) or as prospective citizens. The current system allows us to benefit from the exploitation of an underclass while pretending that we don’t mean to do so and simultaneously punishing that underclass for complicity in its own exploitation.

        • armstp

          “Illegal immigration has NOT been around since the beginning, as there were no laws limiting it at all for quite a long time.”

          That is my point. It was not even an issue because there was no distinction between legal and illegal. Whowever wanted to come, simply came. There was no real harm, it only grew the economy.

          I personally do not think we need to do anything. And if one were a completely free-market thinker, then labor markets should be wide open. The EU is practically like this. Why fear the labor competition? However, I do believe we need to maintain the immigration laws we have, I just don’t think it is worth the time and money to strength them or enforce them more than we do.

        • MSheridan

          @armstp,

          I personally do not think we need to do anything. And if one were a completely free-market thinker, then labor markets should be wide open. The EU is practically like this. Why fear the labor competition? However, I do believe we need to maintain the immigration laws we have, I just don’t think it is worth the time and money to strength them or enforce them more than we do.

          Okay. First, although I’d agree we could go for quite a while along our current course with no significant harm done (compared to our current baseline), I don’t think it is an optimal course, either ethically or economically. I think it would be better for us and better for the currently undocumented if they were here legally.

          Second, even if I were a purely free-market thinker, I believe your argument would only apply to what is best for the US market, not what is best for the people in the US. What is best for one is not automatically what is best for the other. Free-market theory deals in prices, not quality of life.

        • bartlebee

          armstp, you stated that illegal immigrants are responsible for less crime than U.S. citizens. Every illegal alien who has worked in the United States has committed one or more of the following crimes: ID Theft, Document Fraud, Social Security Fraud, Employment (I-9 Form) Fraud, and Conspiracy to Violate Immigration Laws. Unless you can prove that every American citizen has committed a crime, your statement is incorrect.

  • lilmanny

    If you are really convinced that Americans will do those jobs as well for the same prices, I invite you, Mr. Foster, to contact a farmer in West Texas or whatever state you reside in or find yourself in. Ask them if they think they could run their farms without migrant workers, illegal or otherwise. Engage them and find out. I think you will find that the ag economy is not like you imagine it. Most of these operations are on a razor thin margin, and any increase in costs is a killer. Further, they operate on a very tight calendar. It’s not like to can maintain an inventory of crops just hanging out in the field. You need people now and three days from now is going to be too late. That may offend your morals to learn that people put the survival of their own business above whatever it may cost the taxpayer but, of wait, never mind. You proposed denying medical care to people based on their immigration status, so your morals are not what’s at question.

    • Sinan

      The key to understanding the logic behind the anti-illegal argument is simple once you realize it. The reason we have these people in the fields, in the butcheries, in the packing houses, in all the dirty jobs we use them for is that they are desperate people clinging to a thread and willing to do anything imaginable to stay alive. If you send them all home, the jobs these types of people do for short wages will have to be filled with Americans. In order for any American to accept these jobs under these conditions, Americans will also have to become just as desperate, just as downtrodden, just as hungry, just as poor and just as eager. This is the right wing solution to unemployment and it is straight from the monetarist playbook. If you adopt a policy that says when you are out of a job you get absolutely nothing from the state, you create this class of worker. No other modern state follows this model but for emerging nations like China, Brasil (recently modified this and is getting great results) and places like Russia and India. Is this the nation you want? So you can save a few bucks potentially in taxes? Do we need to become completely broke again as a nation in order to overcome the affects of years of free trade, deregulation, union busting and low taxes? That is what these folks want and if they get what they want, expect them to then come back in a year after tasting this bitter fruit and scream bloody murder in round two of the Tea Party. Round two will be similar to a Dickens scene…Sir, may I have another?

      • MSheridan

        +1

      • John Bowman

        Umm, 90% of illegal aliens had a job in their home country and were living just fine thank you, before they decided to break into the USA to double their income, got to have a bigger house and big shiny chrome wheels for the truck you know. The per capita income in Mexico is twice the world average, and Mexicans are the second most obese people on the planet. Your lies reek.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    and props to Graychin fo pointing out the utter insanity of this statement:
    We could also encourage illegal immigrants to leave the country voluntarily by depriving them of public services.

    Yeah, if a Mexican woman is raped we should so totally stop her from reporting the crime, lets make it open season on women, and if they are kidnapped in Mexico and sold into chattel in the US as sex slaves, well Howie is fine with that provided that they are kept in dungeons or something and never, ever report it and use one precious penny of his taxes.

    Go ahead Howard, use that as your Republican party platform and watch the Republicans lose 50 states. Not only is that statement heartless, it is brainless as well. Public services contribute to public safety and health. Or we can turn illegal immigrants all into infectious disease incubators, it is not like they breathe the same air we do.

    Why in the world is David Frum hiring this clown for? That has got to be one of the most idiotic things I have read here in a long time.

    I want a mandatory e-verify program, with fines and jailtime for violators, I want legal immigration and no illegal immigration, I had to pay thousands of dollars and jump through hoops to get my foreign born wife to the states and would have done so regardless but I can see how others would forgo that if there were no repercussions from sneaking them in. The rate of legal immigration is then something we can discuss.

    But Howard is not capable of that.

  • armstp

    Illegals are essentially invited here by U.S. corporations and the agriculture industry in the form of job offers. Don’t blame the illegals, but those offering them jobs. You want to stop illegal immigrations then go after big agra and corporate America. You never hear the “right” or Republicans talking about that…..

    • John Bowman

      Yep, which is why Republicans in the House are advancing a mandatory e-verify bill over Democrat objections that will stop Corporations from hiring illegal aliens…..wait, that’s the exact opposite of what you posted.

  • Clayton

    I have a simple question about denying illegal immigrants emergency room access: how in the world would you do this?

    Would you need to show proof of your citizenship to get treatment? Perhaps in many cases a drivers license is all you would need (though of course those can be faked or obtained by illegal immigrants).

    But what if you’re in a car wreck, you’re unconscious and you lose your wallet? Or you have a heart attack in your home and your significant other forgets to grab your ID or birth certificate in all the commotion of getting you to the hospital so you don’t die. Are you then denied care?

    Of course not. Well, so long as you’re lucky enough to be white.

  • Rob_654

    Can’t wait for the first time a little Hispanic girl is wheeled out of an Emergency Room and left to suffer and die on the sidewalk.

    That will surely be a proud day for all Americans and for those that pronounce their “faith” the loudest…

    • Fart Carbuncle

      Your liberal-ness gave you blinders with which you refuse to see facts.

      Many of those ERs are being forced to close because so many illegals use them as their free primary care clinics.

  • PingGuy

    Mr. Foster,

    This is FrumForum, not RedState. From the content of your article I figured you forgot where you were when you posted it.

  • Houndentenor

    What a load of BS.

    The solution for this problem is simple. Prosecute the employers hiring illegal workers, preferably with mandatory jail time for offenders. We like low prices at restaurants and for food, roofing, yard work and child care and then complain that the illegal workers who provide the labor. We can’t have it both ways. If we are going to exploit illegal workers, then we have to educate their children and take care of them when they are injured or get sick.

  • LauraNo

    1) How was the $8.8 billion derived?
    2) The only profit you can imagine from this number of low-cost labor is the tax they pay? There is no economic upside off-setting the blurry $8.8 billion number?
    3) If 60,000 children of IIs are being born every year, added to the number (unstated) illegally entering every year, what does this tell us about Texas’ population without this growth?
    4) I thought Texas has no state income tax. I don’t understand how they can spend $90 billion/ year. I can’t imagine they have sales taxes and can property tax actually cover it? Okay, this question doesn’t belong here but I am curious.
    5) Unless and until we deal with the problem of so many here illegally, it is incumbent on us to educate them, since they are part of our economy.
    6) I refuse to let people die just for the satisfaction of punishing someone who broke a law. Jezzus.

    • PracticalGirl

      I can’t imagine they have sales taxes and can property tax actually cover it? Okay, this question doesn’t belong here but I am curious.

      Having recently relocated to Texas from a state that had income tax but no sales tax, I get your curiosity. Texas may not tax incomes, but everything- and I mean everything- else carries a tax or fee: “New resident” tax on driver’s licenses, applications for rental property, food, clothing…The list is endless. Property taxes, at least in the city where I live, are sky high.

      But the biggest shock for us? We’re keeping our business incorporated/headquartered in another state because businesses are “fee’d” for every freaking thing you can think of. And sorry, Gov. Perry, but the red tape here is onerous. Sure, the straight up “taxes” seem low, but the State of Texas has its hand out in every other way. Because we’re mobile and employ smart advisors, we’re taking advantage of the “no income tax”, keeping our business headquartered elsewhere and investing in property in another state where there’s no tax on the purchase and where the property taxes (comparable values are much lower). But if you don’t have this luxury, “tax-free” Texas can be a real drain. And, well, crap- sorry, again, Gov Perry, but the state has a rather high deficit.

  • CautiousProgressive

    There should be no duty to provide emergency care to people in the country illegally.

    Are YOU really ready to be refused life-or-death emergency treatment because you forgot to bring your Social Security card to the ambulance?

  • SallyVee

    Never, ever trust info or stats emanating from a John Tanton derivative – like FAIR in this instance.

    I agree with above poster who asked whether this was RedState or FrumForum?

    The article is appalling, but I suppose people ought to know cretins like this exist. Unfortunately many on my side of the aisle (Right) have been successfully brainwashed by Tanton propaganda.

    • SJReidhead

      There are three broken links in the article, which makes sense. FAIR has been designated a “hate group” by the SPLC. Yes, I know it is liberal, but not all liberals are evil. SallyVee is correct. Never trust anything that comes from a Taunton source. They are tainted.

      I’ve noticed nothing is said about fact that, contrary to FAIR, illegal immigrants do generate a cash flow within a state and region.

      What I find repulsive about the anti-immigration sources is their inability to see the “illegal” in human terms. They are a criminal, ergo they are allowed to have no human rights, to be treated decently, and have their story told. It is a recipe for electoral disaster for the GOP.

      Please, keep it up, and we get 4 more years of Obama!

      SJR
      The Pink Flamingo

      • John Bowman

        The $PLC has been designated a “hate group” by a number of American patriot groups.

      • bartlebee

        What next? Will the American Grandmothers’ Sewing and Knitting Club be designated a “hate group” by the slimy, discredited, and disreputable SPLC in order to scare up more donations for their ‘Poverty Palace’.

    • bartlebee

      SallyVee wrote: “Unfortunately many on my side of the aisle (Right) have been successfully brainwashed by Tanton propaganda.”

      Just as many on the Left side of the aisle have been successfully brainwashed by ‘La Raza’ propaganda.

  • Sinan

    It’s only money folks. We could pay for all of this easily by just cutting defense expenditures except for purely defensive measures. The idea that we will start letting people die because they are non-citizens is barbaric and appalling to me. We are better than this people. Money is just a tool to provide us with a lifestyle we choose. Use it to support what we all desire and we will be just fine. Do any of you really think we needed a multi-billion dollar embassy in Iraq? Do any of you think we need another aircraft carrier? Another bomber? Another missile? Who are we fighting again?

    • Clayman

      ^+1 Sinan

    • John Bowman

      Earth to Sinan: The US has a $1.2 TRILLION budget deficit. We cannot afford current defense spending, we cannot afford illegal aliens, we cannot afford all the programs for poor and unemployed Americans. Cut defense spending, deport the illegals, end unfair “free trade” to put Americans to work, ALL of that is needed to eliminate the deficit.

      I do agree we should give any uninsured illegal emergency medical care, and then send the bill to their home country. Of course if we enforced our immigration laws there would be few illegals remaining to even use emergency care.

  • Dragonfly

    Funny how they always show a picture of fruit and veggie pickers when talking about illegal aliens.

    Illegal aliens do not pick fruit and veggies – legal migrant workers on work permits come and go seasonally to pick fruits and veggies.

    Illegal aliens work construction, manufacturing, maintenance, hotels, restaurants, anything and everything except the fields. And, if there are any working the fields, then, if need be, just expand the guest worker program for them to do so legally.

    Also, the illegal alien’s not on the books ‘wives’ crank out kids on the system, which is where the real costs come from, as well as the costs of the lost jobs. Because of the lack of jobs, legal citizens end up on welfare, unemployment, or just plain idle to near riot state from frustration and boredom, committing crimes at the minimum. Putting more costs on the legal and penal system. From LA to the Burroughs of NYC – millions of Americans are doing nothing all day every day, while the government creates illegal aliens working jobs that the government should be molding the citizens into through a program.
    Then there’s the added costs to the legal system and penal system from illegal aliens, as well.

    The funny thing is – the Dems are guilty more than anyone on this practice of allowing illegal aliens into the country and creating a magnet for them, and while allowing people to work for less than minimum wage with no benefits, yet they say they are for better pay and better benefits for workers.

    Migrant workers who come legally to work the fields, who stay for extended times with their children, are able to put their children in public schools legally – legal citizens, tax payers, pay for this.

    Illegal aliens are getting to piggyback on this program, allowed by the politicians, and this is why they blur the picture – letting people think illegal aliens are the ones working the fields.

    As to who pays for all this? The American working stiff does through their taxes and fees, to include property taxes, which are mainly used for schools in many areas around the country. They use to use property taxes for a lot of different things, but communities do without a lot now since schools are over-packed with a whole lot of illegal alien’s kids.

    It’s a very costly mess the politicians have created in America, and every politician responsible for helping to make it should be booted out of office.

    • Frumplestiltskin

      wow, you really know nothing about Capitalism, do you? You should be aware that there is not a set, finite amount of jobs, that new ones can be created, and are, all the time.
      And if not for the children of these illegal immigrants, America’s population would go downhill long term as there will not be enough children born to replace existing workers. Japan is a slowly dying country because they do not assimilate new people. And the notion that somehow your children are not a drain on the system but THOSE children are is myopic.

      And of course Republicans are most to blame for illegal immigrants, Democrats would far more likely streamline legal immigration and allow more in, it is the Republicans and the Chamber of Commerce that loves illegals as people whom they can exploit, but you know this already and simply want to shout “hey, look over there.”

      And as I live in Mexico and have for 7 years, you don’t know what you are talking about. Across the street from where I live is a charity ER hospital where the uninsured go and where I would go in an emergency (I have IMSS). I don’t need to take my card with me if I went, nor would I have to pay upfront, it is an emergency hospital…I don’t take my IMSS card with me everywhere. A number of central Americans, non Mexican citizens, have been treated there for free.

      And I have known a lot of expats who have broken laws and gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist, from drunk driving to smoking pot…not big stuff but nothing happened to them.

      Why do you write about something you know nothing about? I guess it must be nice to make things up about places.

      • Dragonfly

        “And I have known a lot of expats who have broken laws and gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist, from drunk driving to smoking pot…not big stuff but nothing happened to them.”

        LOL – the Mexican police are as bad as the criminals – they are well known for falsely arresting gringos, driving them out to the desert area, robbing them, then driving off without them. And if a gringo is caught committing a crime in Mexico he/she is in a whole lot of trouble – the world knows this, so spare us your bs.

        • Frumplestiltskin

          yes, my living here for so long is somehow bs when none of this has happened to me or anyone I know. In the north along the border where the cartels are running amok, that is far different than the south.

          Have you ever lived in Mexico dragonfly? No, you haven’t. So stop being such an ass and act like you know how life is here.

        • Dragonfly

          No, I do not live in Mexico, but I’ve been there many times.

          I live in America where the problem is with illegal aliens, the topic of the piece here in this thread.

          I live in California so I see how and where the hard-earned tax dollars are burned on the ‘wives’ and kids of illegal aliens, while the ‘husbands’ work American jobs. And I see the tons of American citizens, Whites, Blacks, Asians, and even Hispanics who are excluded from being able to work on the construction teams that are being filled by illegal aliens. These citizens are forced to apply for help, live off their family, homeless shelters, or resort to crime, while they watch illegal aliens working American jobs and cranking out families on the taxpayer’s back.

          Now, let’s get this into Texas where 40% of the hires over the last few years were illegal aliens on construction, and manufacturing. These companies are allowed to overlook legal citizens, when we have about 100 million in America not working, while hiring illegal aliens for cheap labor, no taxes, no EDD, no Workman’s Compensation, and bad people think this is OK.

          Well, it’s not, and Americans WILL put a stop to it.

          I believe Perry’s running for president has exposed to the nation a whole lot of what and where has been really wrong in America. It’s easy to see why he is against E-Verify and a fence, and wanting to give the families of illegal aliens who take American jobs benefits, taxpayer-paid benefits. He’s taking mighty good care of companies at the expense of Americans and America.

          Trust that America WILL put a stop to it.

      • John Bowman

        Don’t let your hate blind you, go look up some Demographic stats. Americans are having and average of 2.1 children, that plus longer life spans guarantee an increasing population even if there were no immigration. And how many people do you want in the USA anyway, 1.3 billion?

  • SteveT

    Refuse to treat people who need emergency care?

    What would you do for instance –and this happened to me– with someone who has insurance and is knock unconscious in a car accident? Is there a database for whose insured and who’s not? Not everyone carries their insurance card or information on them.

  • kirk

    Right now my apartment complex is putting in very spiffy limestone retaining wall that will improve the quality of my living space, attract new tenants and keep old tenants (like me) happy to pay the same or more for my apartment. The labor is provided by natives of Mexico and Central America. No one else is going to touch this work so don’t even try to argue that this labor would go to out of work college students – that does not pass the giggle test. These men buy groceries, cars, gas, furniture, shoes, socks and televisions at Target and Walmart right around the corner. They spend most of what they make in the place the earn the money – just like me. They do not qualify for most forms of public assistance because in Texas it is darned hard to get public assistance. They contribute more than they cost Texas. You are seriously deranged to suggest otherwise.

    • Dragonfly

      OK – first, they come here with no experience – they get OJT, something that should be offered to American citizens.

      Second, the people employing them pay no taxes, no EDD, no Worman’s Compensation, no sick time, no Holiday pay, maybe even less than minimum wage, while a legitimate contractor who employs legal citizens has to pay all that, and trust that there is no cost break to the end user – the consumer who hired the contractor. The contractor who hires the illegal aliens charges the same as the one who hires the legal citizen. The only difference is the profit to the contractor.

      Third, that illegal alien has a not on the books ‘wife’ who is cranking out kids on the system.

      I can go on forever about all the bad that comes from violating our most scared of laws with illegal alien activity.

  • Rabiner

    “There are many who argue that refusing to treat anyone is immoral. That is a misplaced view. People present in the country should not gain an entitlement to care as a reward for their own prior law-breaking. ”

    How do you expect a person to provide documentation of their immigration status in the case of a medical emergency? Also do you wish for Americans to be treated in this manner in other countries when they’re traveling abroad?

    • Dragonfly

      If you go to Mexico you should have medical insurance, and be aware of the fact that not all hospitals will deal with your insurance, so be prepared to pay for treatment up front.

      Also, you will not be allowed work without a permit, not even volunteer work.

      If you break their laws you’d be very sorry you did.

  • Brittanicus

    After 1990 more people have covertly arrived here than any time since immigration numbers have been recorded. In the previous 20 years, immigration has exploded to over 1 million newcomers a year, that it is three times the conventional standard. Immigration is not just one issue that profoundly affects our children and grandchildren, but goes far beyond today’s challenges we must deal with such as jobs, the economy and loss of revenue from paying equally for our uninsured Americans but illegal aliens as well. Our countries population has more than doubled from 203 million in 1970 and an impending 439 million in 2050, according to the Census Bureau. Immigration is estimated to cause eighty-two percent of propagation between 2005 and 2050 as estimated by The Pew Hispanic Center. Congress has caused this radical population, without thinking of future consequences or the incessant extortion of U.S. taxpayers by the IRS to pay for these people–illegal and illegal.

    Yesterdays immigrants came with nothing; expecting nothing. But those illegal immigrants, who have come here since 1986, expect free welfare and public assistance and demanding even more through demonstration in our streets. These are economic illegal aliens, made easy to come here through porous borders and even less internal enforcement. $113 Billion dollars a year and climbing, doesn’t seem that much under the present doldrums of a 14.7 Trillion dollar U.S. deficit? But this money should not be going to foreigners, when America have their own crushing poverty, within its states? A good beginning to the long road back, is by all patriotic citizens or legalized residents insisting that Congress adopt Lamar Smiths mandated E-Verify bill (H.R. 2885), identified as the “Legal Workforce Act” . Contact your own local Senator or Representative or federal politician at 202-224-3121.

    The consequences of illegal alien workers being hired will be alleviated by turning the tables on less than honorable business owners, who are stealing jobs from American workers to buttress their enormous earnings. There are no short cuts in this massive problem as a way back to national sovereignty or the way our government is suppose to work. A failure to secure our borders is not an option, or to enforce the laws of the 1986 Immigration Control and Reform Act. None of this illegal population would have happened if previous administrations had enforced all policies. The “Legal Workforce Act” has the intensity, to reject those illegal workers and open many jobs for citizens and permanent residents. Like any other developed country with growing industries, we always have the inducement of a good place to live, if you qualify for a special preference visa. Only the highest eligible skills should be expedited, and those who are considered—ECONOMIC–aliens must be turned away.

    THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT STATE IMMIGRATION POLICING LAWS IN ARIZONA, ALABAMA, GEORGIA, UTAH OR ANY OTHER STATE SOVEREIGNTY. IT IS EVERY AMERICAN STATES PROBLEM AND ITS RESIDENTS. IT’S NOT JUST A RICK PERRY ISSUE, MITT ROMNEY, OR ANY PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL; IT’S EVERY AMERICAN PROBLEM WHO STILL REMAINS JOBLESS. IT’S A GROWING CATASTROPHE FOR ALL OF US, WHO ARE FORCED BY LAW TO SUPPORT HEALTH TREATMENT, EDUCATION AND A WIDE CORNUCOPIA OF PUBLIC SERVICES TO FOREIGN NATIONALS. WHOEVER ARRIVES IN THE WHITE HOUSE MUST HOLD THE SOLID IDEALS OF THE TEA PARTY. “…GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE…”
    by President Abraham Lincoln, June 1, 1865

    We can no longer afford the expense of illegal entries, which have arrived here by the millions adding to the impoverished amongst the jobless Americans. This country is being handicapped on all levels of government, by the insistence from both political parties that we must support everyone who enters this country. The costs have spiraled to over 100 billion a year, with public assistance. Then again, nobody ever speaks about the billions of dollars that leaves this nation, from the illegal pay packets of workers spirited from the US to foreign financial institutions. That is money not going into our economy.

    Besides funneling so much cash out of the United States (about $500 billion through banks and “regular” tracked wired transmission systems, plus over $500 billion in cash income to criminals such as illegal alien smugglers, drug cartels etc), illegal’s then collect various social services, welfare, food stamps, unpaid medical care, WIC, and more. Believe it or not, much of these government checks are picked up at Post offices boxes in other countries, including fraudulent child tax credits. India alone has retained its position as the highest beneficiary of global transmittal flow at $52 billion in 2008, the World Bank has said in a report. Then Mexicans remit about $24 BILLION a year (2007 figure) to its banks. This money should be going to our own poor, to elderly pensions and aid with running our hospitals and the education system. Investigate these references and sources for yourself, to see the money that is being used to appease foreign nationals.

    Only the TEA PARTY has guaranteed to its millions of members that our immigration laws will be strictly held to the highest degree. The border must be our first line of protection against the criminals of every designation, and those who come here through the impaired fencing. E-Verify bill (H.R. 2885), recognized as the “Legal Workforce Act” can be the second line of defense for in-house audits, to siphon out foreign workers. A third line of defense is the patriotic American who informs ICE at of irregularities in all occupations at 1-866-DHS-2ICE (866-347-2423). SEE SOMETHING? DO SOMETHING?

    This does not mean just a laborer working for a greedy contractor, but even middle management in a factory. Also stand with Secure Communities that any individual who is processed in police custody, is fingerprinted and checked through ICE and homeland Security databases. American Patrol, a pro-sovereignty group hosts on its website, a daily headline from thousands of newspapers, dealing with corruption in politics and immigration. NumbersUSA has internal firsthand knowledge of Congressional happenings and immigration. Judicial Watch reveals the corruption in all Washington agencies, along with the same resonating in each states capitol.
    A federal judge’s resolution last week left Alabama’s strict new immigration law largely intact is already having a key impact throughout the state, as hundreds of children stayed away from school. The state’s anti-immigration law is now in effect, including a provision that requires schools to check the immigration status of students. My guess is that thousands of illegal families will be pursuing a new home, such as the Sanctuary state of California or any state where immigration laws are lax and remain unenforced.

    One Old Vet saying, “Stand next to me and you’ll never stand alone.”

    MY EARLIER BLOGS: http://brittanicus-enoughisenough.blogspot.com

    • dubmod

      Georgia’s immigration law has decimated agriculture in the state. It has also saddled every business in the state with a cumbersome government compliance apparatus, E-verify, which will cost every business a lot of money in administrative expense. All out of bigotry, not economics – sad.

      • Dragonfly

        E-Verify is NOT cumbersome. It’s a very easy to use useful tool to combat crime.

      • John Bowman

        Guess you didn’t hear, in Georgia American parolees are now picking the crops.

        My business uses e-verify, it’s “administrative cost” is nothing compared to the administrative costs of Social Security, payroll taxes, workers comp, health care, unemployment, disability, etc. Do you support getting rid of all those high “administrative cost” programs? I say you want them only because YOU are a bigot.

  • dubmod

    FAIR, a modern edition of the KKK. Immigration is and has been for hundreds of years, a huge net plus to our economy.

    • bartlebee

      dubmod wrote: “FAIR, a modern edition of the KKK.”

      That would be just as ignorant as saying that the National Council of La Raza is the Hispanic version of the KKK.

    • John Bowman

      Which is why California, the state with the most “immigrants” has a perpetual state budget crisis, and it’s GDP had gone from 5th to 10th in the world…….Opps, maybe immigrants aren’t that great for the economy.

  • Dragonfly

    Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $113 Billion per year, directly, and then there’s a whole lot of indirect costs on top of that.

    dubmod, the same people who brought America the KKK, the Democrats, are the ones who bring us illegal aliens.

    FAIR is just that – fair.

    Slavery was unfair, and so is illegal alien activity.

    • dubmod

      No they don’t. They add about $800 billion to the economy. FAIR is a nativist anti -immigrant group. A bigot operation. E verify is an intrusive cumbersome government program. Illegal immigration is a supply and demand end game, something so called capitalists should appreciate, real capitalists do.Again, Georgia’s bill is an unmititgated disaster. Not something Georgia’s right wing media want to report.

      • Dragonfly

        You can pull your left-wing right-wing whatever all you want – illegal aliens are just that – ILLEGAL – AGAINST THE LAW.

        It’s a crime, and crime costs.

        • Going Forward

          “Crime costs”? Nope. Enforcement costs. Going 100 miles an hour on an open stretch of road is breaking the law, yet if you hit there is no cost. Having a police car patrol that stretch of road to catch speeders, now that costs.

      • John Bowman

        Give your job to a homeless unemployed American, and start living on the streets. See if you still feel the same way about illegal aliens. And even the illegal loving Wall Street Journal admitted illegal aliens only add $100 billion to the US economy, that is less than their $350 billion negative impact on Americans. You pulled than $800b figure out of your azz.

    • Frumplestiltskin

      Slavery was unfair

      Wow, you really are a child. No slavery was not unfair, being called out when you were safe is unfair. Slavery was barabaric, cruel, vicious, all the things that Mormons like Mitt justified as being part of God’s plan. Hell, they did not even allow blacks any positions in the Mormon church until 1979 calling them “children of Ham” and therefore unworthy of such positions. And I love how you pull numbers out of your nether regions. And what of the productive value that illegals have put forward, it only takes a person producing more than they are consuming for there to be a net gain in society, this is true with legal or illegal immigrants.

      I am in favor of mandatory e-verify using a biometric id card that also functions as a social security card. We are a society of laws so don’t give me nonsense that Democrats bring illegals, we all know it is people like YOU sitting around not doing real manly work that sets up a situation where corporations want to exploit illegal labor.

      Of course it is the Chamber of commerce. You think Democrats own these poultry farms or factories and hire illegals. Without the jobs they won’t come. But you refuse to acknowledge this. You are a binary person (Romney is Jeebus, Demmycrats am devils) and very tiresome. I gotta start to ignore you.

      • Dragonfly

        Slavery was not only unfair to the slaves, it was unfair to those who had no slaves – they were at a disadvantage. The same is with employers who don’t employ illegal aliens, employers who abide by the law – they are at a disadvantage to those who employ illegal aliens. This is unfair, to say the least.

        • Frumplestiltskin

          I don’t know why I bother but I can’t let such ignorance pass. No slavery was not unfair to those that did not have slaves. In fact, the whole industrial revolution in the north was predicated on having a free, highly productive and somewhat intelligent workforce to operate the machinery of the industrial revolution, which produced far, far, far in excess of what a slave driven society ever can.

          Are you somekind of satirist writing such nonsense for a lark?

        • MSheridan

          Actually, Dragonfly has a point here (believe it or not). Slavery did put poor nonslaveholding whites at a disadvantage in the labor market. It is largely forgotten today, but one of the reasons many outside the southern states were against the spread of slavery was that they were seen (correctly) as a threat to the white working man.

    • MSheridan

      Correction: It was the Southern Democrats, AKA Dixiecrats, AKA almost every southern white person born more than a very few generations ago, who originally brought us the KKK, although it surely throve in other locales as well. Almost all of those Democrats switched party registration when the Democrats included civil rights in their official platform and when the GOP went with its Southern Strategy to use race to pry them away. It isn’t conspiracy theory when the principals involved are on record. Hell, Ken Mehlman, the RNC chair from 2005 to 2007, even apologized on behalf of his party to the NAACP in 2005 for the Southern Strategy (a touch of class, I thought).

      • Dragonfly

        The KKK was created by the Democrats to terrorize the Blacks from voting for Republicans. Black voted for Republicans because Republicans freed them.

        Democrats still enslave Blacks with their welfare dependency for votes program, and at the expense of the working stiff – the taxpayer.

        More Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats – the Democrats fought it.

      • dubmod

        With respect, it does’nt matter which party was affiliated with the KKK. Dragonfly’s response was to label me a Democrat, I am a pragmatist, I have no representation in Congress, but that’s what passes for political discussion, encouraged by an ignorant media. A crime? You should read the FBI reports. Arizona, for instance, has a substantially lower crime rate amomg illiegal aliens than the general population. Yes, I should not have said right wing, a more accurate description would be Tea Party Republican, a group of angry white failures who want to blame somebody else for their failure to succeed.

        • Clayman

          ^+1dubmod

          The illegal immigrants that I deal with on a regular basis are the most law-abiding, honest, hard working people I have met. The Tea Baggers have been brainwashed by Limbaugh, Dobbs, and Fixed News to believe all the lies about immigrants being the cause for crimes in the border states.

        • Dragonfly

          Illegal aliens account for a good portion of crime in America.

          Illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $113 Billion per year, directly – indirectly, lots more.

          Illegal aliens are law breakers.

          Illegal aliens are criminals.

          Americans who employ illegal aliens are law breakers.

          Americans who give assistance to illegal aliens are law breakers.

        • bartlebee

          Clayman wrote: “The illegal immigrants that I deal with on a regular basis are the most law-abiding, honest, hard working people I have met.”

          There is no such thing as a law-abiding illegal immigrant.

        • John Bowman

          Illegals aliens commit numerous felonies every day they work. Give one all your ID, see if you still think they aren’t career criminals.

        • Dragonfly

          dudmod, I did not try to label you as a Democrat – I do not know what you are – that doesn’t matter to me. I just stated facts.

  • LaLupa

    Is this how Frum Forum wants to modernized the GOP? By buddying up with nativist groups like FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA? The studies performed by FAIR have been consistently debunked for their exaggerations and penchant for including American children (yes, kids of illegal immigrants born in the USA are Americans per the 14th Amendment) in their data. Why use such a disreputable source?!

    • Dragonfly

      LaLupa, someone says there’s 14 million illegal aliens in America, and someone else says there’s 20 million – it’s a minor point right now.

      What matters is that they are here illegally – they broke the law.

      The magnet will be turned off – no more employment or tax-paid benefits for illegal aliens.

      You can count them on the way out if it sets you right with the mathematical semantics of it.

      And, don’t think that it is going to be the Republican party who will do it – it will be the Dems.

      The Dems had all the majorities, passed everything, except an amnesty bill – geez, I wonder why.

      Watch the right hand, while the left pulls off the trick.

      • LaLupa

        In Texas illegal immigrants pay exactly the same taxes as every other person living in the state: sales and property taxes. The idea that their children are getting anything for free is baseless. Illegal immigrants are entitled to emergency Medicaid. They are not eligible for other federal assistance. As far as all these numbers being put out by FAIR about the cost of healthcare. Hospitals don’t check for legal status. So where are these numbers coming from? BTW, illegal immigrant don’t enjoy employer benefits. If they don’t work, they don’t make any money. They have no incentive spending time waiting in emergency rooms.

        • Dragonfly

          They estimate that maybe half pay taxes, and this estimation is based on only half of the illegal aliens who are actually here. This in no way whatsoever begins to cover the costs and the damage done to America because of illegal aliens.

          With this taxation of some illegal aliens accounted for, the cost burden of illegal aliens is still $113 Billion per year – directly. Even more when taken into account the costs of legal citizens who can’t get work because it’s going to illegal aliens.

          Anyway……..

          What part of the illegal alien activity in America is a crime do you not understand?

          What part of illegal alien activity costs American taxpayers $113 Billion per year do you not understand?

          What part of illegal alien activity has led to criminal street gangs—mostly comprised of illegal aliens— who are responsible for the majority of violent crimes in the United States and are the primary distributors of most illicit drugs do you not understand?

          What part of illegal aliens – improper entry by aliens – is a crime do you not understand?

        • MSheridan

          No facts, no figures, just assertions. See here:

          http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html
          which should be enough to debunk the “majority of violent crime” thing

          and here:

          http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0307.pdf
          showing that the per capita crime rates have been dramatically dropping for decades.

        • bartlebee

          LaLupa, not everybody in Texas owns property, and certainly not every illegal immigrant in Texas owns property. Only those people who own property pay property taxes.

    • John Bowman

      Actually, the 14th Amendment says the children of illegal aliens ARE NOT US citizens, and they were considered non-citizens for 100 years after it’s passage. Then about 40 years ago federal welfare bureacrats ignored the 14th Amendment and decided illegal alien babies were US citizens in order to increase welfare payments and their empire. Which means this practice can be easily stopped with legislation or executive order.

      • MSheridan

        Of course, it is impossible for the 14th Amendment to say any such thing, as it was passed in 1868. There were no illegal immigrants in 1868, as there were no laws prohibiting the entry of anyone who wanted to come here. The very first law that made it illegal for certain classes of people to immigrate was the Page Act of 1875, prohibiting the importation of Chinese laborers who did not voluntarily consent to come to work in America and Chinese women for the purposes of prostitution. Even the Naturalization Act of 1870 (imposing penalties on people falsely claiming citizenship) was passed 2 years later.

        Further, aside from the foregoing (which should surely be enough), the language of Section 1 of the 14th amendment (the relevant part) is completely unambiguous:

        Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

  • blueshark

    “There are many who argue that refusing to treat anyone is immoral. That is a misplaced view. People present in the country should not gain an entitlement to care as a reward for their own prior law-breaking.”

    So we should just let them die by the side of the road? Critical, life-saving medical care is an “entitlement”? That is the most disgusting and morally reprehensible statement I have ever read at this generally otherwise sensible forum.

    Moreover, despite being a lawyer, the author seems to have a difficult time with basic legal principles. It is true that the American common law of tort did not traditionally recognize a private cause of action for failure to provide medical services, so Congress created one. Well, duh. That’s what Congress does and it is entirely within the scope of its constitutional authority to do so. See, that’s why it’s called the legislative branch. Ever heard of Title VII? Probably not; based on this and prior postings documenting his lack of legal acumen, the author probably obtained his law degree by sending in cereal box tops.

    Finally, the fact that the sainted President Reagan signed EMTALA into law demonstrates that he had a more fully developed sense of human decency than the author, who probably agrees with Ebenezer Scrooge: “If they be like to die, then let them be quick about it and decrease the surplus population.”

    • ZOO

      What would you guess the percentage of illegal alien free-ride trips to emergency rooms involve “life and death?” One percent? Five percent? Illegals use emergency rooms for everything from colds to constipation. Just exactly would you say the cost to Texas taxpayers was last year for pre-natal visits, delivery, and post-natal visits resulting from 60,000 anchor babies? One word: staggering. Is it any wonder the cost of healthcare for American citizens has more than doubled in the last ten years? Reality might be difficult to absorb so how about irony? While the nation’s taxpayers shell out hundreds of billions for free healthcare for Mexican border jumpers, thousands of tax paying Americans are forced to go to Mexico for cheap medical and dental treatment.

  • Border Related, Civil War in Mexico, and Illegal Immigration Thread(Open to all) - Page 172

    [...] 23,813 var cwfl = "http://www.truckingboards.com/forum/cwfl.htm"; Res Judicata: Who Pays for the Immigrants in Texas? Illegal immigrants cost the State of Texas (including its local governments) $8.8 billion per year. This is a staggering sum of money brought about by a steady flow of illegals obtaining public education, criminal justice, and medical care. It amounts to nearly 10% of the State’s total annual expenditures of approximately $90 billion. And 60,000 children of illegal immigrants are born in Texas each year. Res Judicata: Who Pays for the Immigrants in Texas? | FrumForum [...]

  • The Dustin Inman Society Blog » RICK PERRY WATCH

    [...] Howard Foster – Frum Forum Who pays for the illegals in Texas? Illegal [aliens] cost the State of Texas (including its local governments) $8.8 billion per year. This is a staggering sum of money brought about by a steady flow of illegals obtaining public education, criminal justice, and medical care. It amounts to nearly 10% of the State’s total annual expenditures of approximately $90 billion. And 60,000 children of illegal [aliens] are born in Texas HERE [...]

  • ballchain

    You know why Perry hasn’t said anything about it?? THE LATINO VOTE!! It’s Texas, for crying out loud. If you make a campaign issue out of immigration that riles the Hispanics, you’re gonna get roasted!

    I agree that illegals are a massive burden on this State (Texas), but I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Perry as being okay with it. It’s a Political Campaign for President and he’s a Politician. It’s all a strategy. If on some wild chance he gets elected, he may change his tune… surprising everyone. But it would be Political suicide to make waves in a heavily Latino State!

    It’s a tough call, but I see both sides of the coin. Perry is saying that because the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT isn’t doing their job in securing the border (costing Texas Taxpayers HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in makeshift border patrol), the illegals would bankrupt the State if we refused them higher education opportunities. It’s a stupid idea, but what other options are there? Let them stay uneducated? They’ve got no reason to go back home, so they’ll just cripple the economy even more by defrauding the entire country and leeching on public services.

    • ZOO

      “…It’s all a strategy. If on some wild chance he gets elected, he may change his tune… surprising everyone…”

      You’re not serious? You wouldn’t really vote for Perry on this premise would you? Following your premise, everybody should write-in John McCain on election day.

      “…the illegals would bankrupt the State if we refused them higher education opportunities. It’s a stupid idea, but what other options are there? Let them stay uneducated? They’ve got no reason to go back home, so they’ll just cripple the economy even more by defrauding the entire country and leeching on public services…”

      The illegals cannot find employment after they GET an education. Pissing away billions to subsidize their college education is like putting thousands into a wrecked car. As far as defrauding the country and leeching public services – that has already happened. You seem to fear the illegals and what they might do. That frame of mind is why we have illegals up to our arm pits now.

      • ballchain

        Piss away taxpayer billions for education, or taxpayer billions for everything else they load the system up on (health, law, etc)? It’s a two sided coin. Either way, they’re a drain on the Texas economy and ultimately, a drain on the entire nation.

        I mentioned that it was a stupid idea, and I don’t support it. What I do know is that IT’S SOMETHING. What’s your idea?

        • ZOO

          The only thing that we disagree on is that Perry’s Dream Act was “something” in the war against the illegals. I believe it was a bilk against taxpayers that acted as a magnet for invaders, not a deterrent to filing for welfare. Perry could have and should have pushed legislation to drive them out of Texas, just like Arizona, and now Alabama. Zebras will never change their stripes. Perry was, is, and always will be an illegal alien sucking sellout, and he is unfit to be President. He is clearly gambling on the Mexican vote, but THAT won’t get him the nomination.

      • ballchain

        ["...You seem to fear the illegals and what they might do. That frame of mind is why we have illegals up to our arm pits now."]

        You’re damn straight I fear what they might do. Should I just go rogue and start deporting them myself? What do you expect Texas to do that doesn’t further burden the tax base? If the Federal Government won’t do their job and enforce immigration policy, then sue States that try to protect legal citizens and their States by trying to enforce immigration policy themselves… what the hell do you expect to be done? Just let it be, and keep raising taxes on legals to offset the burden of illegals?

        I’d like to hear some other ideas, because I’m sick of it.

  • ballchain

    ["...Immigrants tend to work in low-pay jobs including fast food, poultry processing, and construction."]

    Construction wasn’t always a “low paying job.” The illegals brought the wage down with them. Where’s the impact study on that? When I was working construction in the mid-90′s, a heavy equipment operator was paid $15-$18/hr. Now… it’s $10/hr on projects going on in Houston right now! Construction labor was paying $8/hr when the minimum wage was $4.25/hr. Now it pays $7.50 with a $7.15 minimum wage.

    What makes it worse is that I couldn’t get one of those jobs now, even at the reduced rate. I’m not Hispanic, and I don’t know who to pay the bribe to! One of the local Houston stations has been doing a story on construction gangs. I hope it blows the lid off of the whole thing.

  • ballchain

    Oh, and if Texas had some cajones, they’d legislate a bill punishing businesses for hiring illegals. If you hit them with $25k fines or abuse the Civil Forfeiture laws some more for hiring illegals, the whole problem would clear up. If they complain about not being able to pay real wages, they’ll go out of business, and I’ll start one up that still offers the same level of products/services, but not be greedy and need to skim off extra bucks instead of paying my fellow citizens decently.

  • Brittanicus

    NOT JUST FARMERS, AGRICULTURE? IT IS EVERY AMERICAN BUSINESS? SHAME ON YOU!

    Pay Farm labor a decent living wage, with health care and education for their family, instead of dumping the illegal labor costs on the taxpayer. Then you will find people desperate for a job, any job will come forward to work the fields. Farmers and giant agricultural consortium’s have been underpaying illegal labor forever and along with all the special subsidies, the same as most business owners. It has been proofed that it only cost a few more cents to the consumer, for vegetable and fruit if labor for the agrarian community pay fair wages for the work done. My grandfather picked apples in Washington State as did other family members. To make ends meet after World War Two, my distant relatives in the English countryside, picked strawberries for the local farmers. Make it a national policy to implement the E-Verify bill (H.R. 2885), identifiable as the “Legal Workforce Act”. Contact your own local Senator or Representative and insist as a voter to your federal politician at 202-224-3121.

    This is just not about the farmers; it’s about meat packing plants, factories and manufacturing. Of course they don’t want to employ regular Americans-legal residents. It’s about any company owner—big or small—who wants to pay as little as possible, with no restrictions on as little they want to pay, for a person’s labor. They have violated this ‘Rule of Law’ because there have been no restrictions on prohibitions to stop them, until Lamar Smith’s H.R. 2885. Special interest groups and the radical open border activists, are currently trying to kill the federal ‘Secure Communities’ initiative. Any individual that is apprehended by the police will have their fingerprints forwarded to ICE, Homeland Security and the FBI for processing. Police data-bases can quickly assess who has been previously arrested, whether he/she is an illegal alien or not.

    Learn the facts about illegal alien costs, statistics and business corruption at NumbersUSA, Judicial Watch and American Patrol. Make every Business, Company and workplace be committed to E-Verify or face harsh consequences. No business owner, no matter who he is, should think he is above the law. That also is a constant with political figures who own grape plantations in the bread basket of central California. This is not just for Farmers and agriculture but for every business owner, so that we can put every American worker in a job and stop catering to other counties impoverished. Go further and re-enact the “Bracero Project” of 1942 with rules and regulations, arranged so migrants from across the Southern border have easier access to specific jobs. The “Bracero Program” established why the plan proved immeasurably accepted among so many migrants, for whom seasonal labor in the US presented grand opportunities, despite some of the poor conditions they often were confronted with in the fields and camps.

    Even under some poor situations they saved money, could buy consumer good, tools or an older vehicle, and returned home with new outlooks and a greater sense of self-respect.
    In places as Mexico counselors studied these positive aspects of the economic and cultural effects of bracer project. If they are retained for employment the government must oversee they are treated correctly. They have to be issued a field workers visa that terminates at the end of harvesting and a mandatory return to their own country. Only through an employment office at entry ports can these people be hired and not through third parties or recruited by less than honest business enterprises. If they remain free of any major problems while employed in the U.S., they can renew their visas. As in Mexico—every person is tracked; all the farm and agricultural workers must be tracked, so they cannot decide to drop the job they are allocated to and disappear in the American job market. The “Bracero program” seemed to work very well, until it was dismantled in 1964. Through unfettered fraud millions of illegal aliens and their families have arrived here, after the 1986 Immigration Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA)

    Eventually there was an increasing apprehension among businesses owners that the provisions within the guide lines of the program ensured the amplification of costs for the imported labor. This fair program mandated an assured level of wages, housing, food and Health care for the workers (to be paid for by the employers) that kept the standard of living above what many from across the border. Farmers and their associated Agrarian colleagues realized they could elevate their profits, by enjoying the extremely hard work in the fields, by hiring illegal aliens who are now exploited. Agriculture didn’t want to pay for the health care or schooling for their children and other benefits, as in the orderly federal “Bracero program.” They prefer the Taxpayers carry the weight of costs for the labor that they hire. Farmers already receive huge subsidies from the U.S. Government. Simple fact the farmers and all the growers of produce got greedy, for even larger profits.

    A new fair migrant worker program will never, ever be possible under the entrenched GOP establishment and many in the Democratic ranks. Many politicians have their own revenues in the illegal alien labor market. Only the TEA PARTY will stop the pollution that emanates from Washington and the Congress.

    • Bingham

      Bless you, Brittanicus. You have logic, research and the law on your side. Unfortunately, the liberals have too many divisions.

  • PART I: A Kinder Gentler Form of Racism (helps Obama) | The Pink Flamingo

    [...] Hispanic population grew by about 125 percent during that decade. …” AL.com  ”…We could also encourage illegal immigrants to leave the country voluntarily by depriving them of public services. Such a [...]