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	<title>Comments on: Republicans Heading for a Spectacular Bloodbath in Florida</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: msmilack</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72593</link>
		<dc:creator>msmilack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72593</guid>
		<description>This article inspired me to write a quick note to say how much I respect Mr. Frum&#039;s intellectual honesty. Politically, I often do not agree with him on policy (for the record, I&#039;m a Democrat), but I read him because I take pride in being well-informed, I want to know the opinions from both sides, and I learn from what he says: more, I consider him fearless in saying what is true. He does not pander nor does he follow &quot;party line.&quot; 

So, my first question is this: why is he one of so few conservative voices who speaks the truth? I wonder, could it be as simple as the fact that he is intelligent and well-read where other conservatives are not? If not, where are the other voices? If so, what does that say about conservatives who either do not speak out or who speak in easy bromides and group-think?

My second question is this: can Mr. Frum imagine anyone taking back the Republican party by kicking out the birthers/teabaggers/extremists (as Buckley did by kicking out the Birchers)? And if not, can he imagine people of like mind starting a new party? At what point does a conservative with integrity and a sense of responsibility pronounce the Republican party no longer the Republican Party? To me, it seems that the party is not dying, it is already dead. 

As a Democrat -- no, let me rephrase that -- as an American, I do not want to live in a country with a one-party system; we all benefit from the give and take of honest debate and opposing views where there is a mutual respect for each other and a shared concern for the future. I miss the noble debate between two parties; yet if the current trend continues, there will be no one for Democrats to talk with. 

It is harder than ever for me to understand how thoughtful conservatives can stand what is happening in their group one minute longer. Who among its members is strong and confident enough to speak out as Frum does? And why aren&#039;t their voices louder than the foolish few who have stolen the identity of that party and that movement? It is ironic to hear them call the Democrats totalitarian when it is they who wish to extinguish any point of view that is other than their own (see Palin, Beck et. al. as well as the recent NY election and all that it portends). I await the sound of other voices that speak out as Frum does. To use a cliche, their silence is deafening.

Respectfully yours,
Marcia Smilack</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article inspired me to write a quick note to say how much I respect Mr. Frum&#8217;s intellectual honesty. Politically, I often do not agree with him on policy (for the record, I&#8217;m a Democrat), but I read him because I take pride in being well-informed, I want to know the opinions from both sides, and I learn from what he says: more, I consider him fearless in saying what is true. He does not pander nor does he follow &#8220;party line.&#8221; </p>
<p>So, my first question is this: why is he one of so few conservative voices who speaks the truth? I wonder, could it be as simple as the fact that he is intelligent and well-read where other conservatives are not? If not, where are the other voices? If so, what does that say about conservatives who either do not speak out or who speak in easy bromides and group-think?</p>
<p>My second question is this: can Mr. Frum imagine anyone taking back the Republican party by kicking out the birthers/teabaggers/extremists (as Buckley did by kicking out the Birchers)? And if not, can he imagine people of like mind starting a new party? At what point does a conservative with integrity and a sense of responsibility pronounce the Republican party no longer the Republican Party? To me, it seems that the party is not dying, it is already dead. </p>
<p>As a Democrat &#8212; no, let me rephrase that &#8212; as an American, I do not want to live in a country with a one-party system; we all benefit from the give and take of honest debate and opposing views where there is a mutual respect for each other and a shared concern for the future. I miss the noble debate between two parties; yet if the current trend continues, there will be no one for Democrats to talk with. </p>
<p>It is harder than ever for me to understand how thoughtful conservatives can stand what is happening in their group one minute longer. Who among its members is strong and confident enough to speak out as Frum does? And why aren&#8217;t their voices louder than the foolish few who have stolen the identity of that party and that movement? It is ironic to hear them call the Democrats totalitarian when it is they who wish to extinguish any point of view that is other than their own (see Palin, Beck et. al. as well as the recent NY election and all that it portends). I await the sound of other voices that speak out as Frum does. To use a cliche, their silence is deafening.</p>
<p>Respectfully yours,<br />
Marcia Smilack</p>
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		<title>By: CharlieFremont</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72489</link>
		<dc:creator>CharlieFremont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72489</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right pointing out the lack of Washington DC Republican leadership and thoughtfulness regarding the stimulus and bailout debacles.  I recall hearing and reading of many thoughtful actions the government might take in the face of all the crisis, real and imagined facing us.  However, the GOP was fired for good cause and at the time the nation had little taste for them.  Additionally, it was incredibly hard for those ideas to get through the elite media filter as the media provided ample stimulus to Crist and others in the GOP wanting to be in bed with what they perceived as Obama&#039;s winning side.

Amazing how quickly things change when one side overreaches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right pointing out the lack of Washington DC Republican leadership and thoughtfulness regarding the stimulus and bailout debacles.  I recall hearing and reading of many thoughtful actions the government might take in the face of all the crisis, real and imagined facing us.  However, the GOP was fired for good cause and at the time the nation had little taste for them.  Additionally, it was incredibly hard for those ideas to get through the elite media filter as the media provided ample stimulus to Crist and others in the GOP wanting to be in bed with what they perceived as Obama&#8217;s winning side.</p>
<p>Amazing how quickly things change when one side overreaches.</p>
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		<title>By: CharlieFremont</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72486</link>
		<dc:creator>CharlieFremont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72486</guid>
		<description>Seems to me Charlie Crist was on very thin ice with the conservative wing of the GOP early on as FL guv.  His opportune support of John McCain on the eve of FL&#039;s primary further eroded center right and conservative Republicans.

He is also the most frustrating kind of Republican officer holder.  The old Gerald Ford model budget and &quot;good government&quot; administrator.  If that means populist, but short sighted insurance regulations, so be it.  If that means taking from the federal till to make his job easier - well a lot of us don&#039;t like that kind of leadership.

Finally, Crist as senate candidate was foisted upon us by the Washington GOP elites.  Didn&#039;t the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee encourage Crist and get behind him?  And while we&#039;re at it, what&#039;s so bad about what happened in New York&#039;s 23rd?  For a couple of years we get to have a very liberal Democrat following Ms. Pelosi and her whips&#039; orders while the GOP has a chance to grow it&#039;s sinew and muscle on the grassroot level.  A vigorous primary will offer the district a much better candidate than the Dede or Hoffman.

Thanks, CF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me Charlie Crist was on very thin ice with the conservative wing of the GOP early on as FL guv.  His opportune support of John McCain on the eve of FL&#8217;s primary further eroded center right and conservative Republicans.</p>
<p>He is also the most frustrating kind of Republican officer holder.  The old Gerald Ford model budget and &#8220;good government&#8221; administrator.  If that means populist, but short sighted insurance regulations, so be it.  If that means taking from the federal till to make his job easier &#8211; well a lot of us don&#8217;t like that kind of leadership.</p>
<p>Finally, Crist as senate candidate was foisted upon us by the Washington GOP elites.  Didn&#8217;t the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee encourage Crist and get behind him?  And while we&#8217;re at it, what&#8217;s so bad about what happened in New York&#8217;s 23rd?  For a couple of years we get to have a very liberal Democrat following Ms. Pelosi and her whips&#8217; orders while the GOP has a chance to grow it&#8217;s sinew and muscle on the grassroot level.  A vigorous primary will offer the district a much better candidate than the Dede or Hoffman.</p>
<p>Thanks, CF</p>
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		<title>By: jletzer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72478</link>
		<dc:creator>jletzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72478</guid>
		<description>David,

You and David Brooks are birds of a feather. All you have proven to conservatives is that a liberal republican is nothing more than a liberal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>You and David Brooks are birds of a feather. All you have proven to conservatives is that a liberal republican is nothing more than a liberal.</p>
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		<title>By: crazylarry</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72466</link>
		<dc:creator>crazylarry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72466</guid>
		<description>&quot;and put them to work making emergency loans to CIT’s customers and&quot; 

that is supposed to be followed by

 &quot;and other business&#039;s who were served by the should have failed institutions&quot; 

I get fired up when thinking about those bailouts and rushed through that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;and put them to work making emergency loans to CIT’s customers and&#8221; </p>
<p>that is supposed to be followed by</p>
<p> &#8220;and other business&#8217;s who were served by the should have failed institutions&#8221; </p>
<p>I get fired up when thinking about those bailouts and rushed through that one.</p>
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		<title>By: crazylarry</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/republicans-heading-for-a-spectacular-bloodbath-in-florida/comment-page-1#comment-72465</link>
		<dc:creator>crazylarry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16003#comment-72465</guid>
		<description>OK fine, what was the alternative?

Take the 700 Billion, hire some of the jobless wall street folks who should have lost their jobs when they bankrupted their institutions, and put them to work making emergency loans to CIT&#039;s customers and any other business who should have disappeared last fall. Have the fed hold the loans till the economy rebounds and then sell em. 

Rubio can pop off all he wants any governor who turns down government money during a very deep recession is a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK fine, what was the alternative?</p>
<p>Take the 700 Billion, hire some of the jobless wall street folks who should have lost their jobs when they bankrupted their institutions, and put them to work making emergency loans to CIT&#8217;s customers and any other business who should have disappeared last fall. Have the fed hold the loans till the economy rebounds and then sell em. </p>
<p>Rubio can pop off all he wants any governor who turns down government money during a very deep recession is a fool.</p>
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