Comments on: “Repeal” is Not Enough http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: JonF http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132971 JonF Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:50:49 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132971 Re: if you’ve worked at your job for long enough, you get your UI payout as a lump sum rather than monthly payments. Interesting idea, but what would be the difference from a practical POV? Same amount of money would paid out, presumably. Re: if you’ve worked at your job for long enough, you get your UI payout as a lump sum rather than monthly payments.

Interesting idea, but what would be the difference from a practical POV? Same amount of money would paid out, presumably.

]]> By: John Q http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132929 John Q Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:24:46 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132929 "For example, giving cash to the working poor via the Earned Income Tax Credit or some other negative income tax is a much better way to provide every working person with a minimum standard of living than a bureaucratic welfare state." We could also consider the Austrian approach to unemployment insurance: if you've worked at your job for long enough, you get your UI payout as a lump sum rather than monthly payments. See http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/07/improving-ui-with-lump-sum-payments/ “For example, giving cash to the working poor via the Earned Income Tax Credit or some other negative income tax is a much better way to provide every working person with a minimum standard of living than a bureaucratic welfare state.”

We could also consider the Austrian approach to unemployment insurance: if you’ve worked at your job for long enough, you get your UI payout as a lump sum rather than monthly payments.

See http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/07/improving-ui-with-lump-sum-payments/

]]> By: Richard Stands http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132910 Richard Stands Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:47:47 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132910 Which is more "selfish", I wonder? Advocating less government intrusion and micromanagement in the lives of all citizens of a "free country", or lobbying the federal government to coercively redistribute outcomes based on my particular view of equity. Which is more “selfish”, I wonder? Advocating less government intrusion and micromanagement in the lives of all citizens of a “free country”, or lobbying the federal government to coercively redistribute outcomes based on my particular view of equity.

]]> By: easton http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132874 easton Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:33:39 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132874 Annikan, I am sure you are aware of what Jesus said about caring for prisoners and draconian punishments and I happen to agree with Jesus. There are a million conservative solutions I can accept, like more state and local control over education for example, because these recognize the legitimate function of Government, just that it is more effective since it is more localized and responsive, it doesn't call for the public education to be abolished. Our system of Representative Government is the greatest system there is, by far. I am not railing against sensible solutions to problems of Government, I am railing against the idiocy if we got rid of Government life would be "jus wunnerfool" Advocating straightening up the books, getting rid of old and useless laws, I have no problem with. That is not the same as saying lets get rid of most laws. And, I am sorry, but do you really believe that no corporations have ruined lives? BP has just done a smashing job of destroying tens of thousands of peoples lives all in the name of expediency, and if not for Government these people would have no remediation. Annikan, I am sure you are aware of what Jesus said about caring for prisoners and draconian punishments and I happen to agree with Jesus.
There are a million conservative solutions I can accept, like more state and local control over education for example, because these recognize the legitimate function of Government, just that it is more effective since it is more localized and responsive, it doesn’t call for the public education to be abolished. Our system of Representative Government is the greatest system there is, by far. I am not railing against sensible solutions to problems of Government, I am railing against the idiocy if we got rid of Government life would be “jus wunnerfool” Advocating straightening up the books, getting rid of old and useless laws, I have no problem with. That is not the same as saying lets get rid of most laws.

And, I am sorry, but do you really believe that no corporations have ruined lives? BP has just done a smashing job of destroying tens of thousands of peoples lives all in the name of expediency, and if not for Government these people would have no remediation.

]]> By: Annikan http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132844 Annikan Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:34:24 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132844 easton, if all I cared about was smoking dope and getting laid, then I could just do that and ignore politics altogether. Did you even read those links I posted? Excellent examples of how a top down government bureaucracy ruins peoples' lives. And if you want to get all Christian morals on me, what did Jesus say about a) caring about prisoners & b) draconian punishments (ie casting the first stone). easton, if all I cared about was smoking dope and getting laid, then I could just do that and ignore politics altogether.
Did you even read those links I posted? Excellent examples of how a top down government bureaucracy ruins peoples’ lives. And if you want to get all Christian morals on me, what did Jesus say about a) caring about prisoners & b) draconian punishments (ie casting the first stone).

]]> By: easton http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132808 easton Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:51:45 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132808 Annikan, just brand libertarians as a bunch of selfish, paranoid kooks. Fine, thanks for the idea. Don't mind if I do. Of course they are, it is fundamentally a juvenile philosophy. I get college students being into it since it means being able to smoke dope and get laid, but eventually people grow up. Annikan, just brand libertarians as a bunch of selfish, paranoid kooks.

Fine, thanks for the idea. Don’t mind if I do. Of course they are, it is fundamentally a juvenile philosophy. I get college students being into it since it means being able to smoke dope and get laid, but eventually people grow up.

]]> By: easton http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132804 easton Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:49:24 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132804 "People have to be convinced that libertarian solutions will work and do something about the problem." Which will be pretty damn impossible since there are no effective libertarian solutions that will work. Mandating coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, nope, can not do that and say it is libertarian, the same with ending rescission. Certainly we can hold down costs by allowing millions of people to die who do not have health insurance, but we also have to get rid of the Hippocratic oath and allow hospitals and doctors to allow people to die who can not afford care. There is a reason why every other nation in the OECD spend much less than the US with many having better outcomes, they all have significantly more Government intervention into health care. Now why does anyone suppose this is? Are non Americans somehow superhuman? Do they live longer by magic? Or could it be that most other developed nations realized that some sectors of the economy are better served by government, things like public education, military, and yes, healthcare. Oh, shocking. Giving tax credits will not solve problems for a huge segment, it will only encourage insurance companies to ensure young healthy people by cherry picking and let others out to rot. What good is a credit when no sane insurance company will take it? And why would they, why would an insurance company take a few thousand dollar voucher for a child that has MS? Their goals are profits. It all comes down to what society we want to be, one that is moral (ok, technically we are not Christian, but Jesus Christ was pretty explicit about our obligation to care for the sick and I, for one, see nothing bad about this) or selfish and narcissitic? “People have to be convinced that libertarian solutions will work and do something about the problem.” Which will be pretty damn impossible since there are no effective libertarian solutions that will work. Mandating coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, nope, can not do that and say it is libertarian, the same with ending rescission. Certainly we can hold down costs by allowing millions of people to die who do not have health insurance, but we also have to get rid of the Hippocratic oath and allow hospitals and doctors to allow people to die who can not afford care.

There is a reason why every other nation in the OECD spend much less than the US with many having better outcomes, they all have significantly more Government intervention into health care. Now why does anyone suppose this is? Are non Americans somehow superhuman? Do they live longer by magic? Or could it be that most other developed nations realized that some sectors of the economy are better served by government, things like public education, military, and yes, healthcare. Oh, shocking.

Giving tax credits will not solve problems for a huge segment, it will only encourage insurance companies to ensure young healthy people by cherry picking and let others out to rot. What good is a credit when no sane insurance company will take it? And why would they, why would an insurance company take a few thousand dollar voucher for a child that has MS? Their goals are profits.

It all comes down to what society we want to be, one that is moral (ok, technically we are not Christian, but Jesus Christ was pretty explicit about our obligation to care for the sick and I, for one, see nothing bad about this) or selfish and narcissitic?

]]> By: Annikan http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132802 Annikan Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:48:36 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132802 There needs to be a lot of repealing all right...not so much of social security but how about repealing some of this stuff??? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/14/attacks_on_freedom_106299.html I think a candidate for governor in Kansas pushed the idea of creating an Office of the Repealer, to get rid of old, outdated or just plain dumb laws (and there are quite a few still on the books, some that date back to the 1700s). What's so bad about that? I think its an excellent idea! Politicians just keep adding new law after new law but never get rid of old laws that are outdated. Some never are enforced, other get selectively enforced. And if you think outdated laws are no big deal, please read this: http://www.theagitator.com/2010/01/21/new-orleans-copsprosecutors-tagging-prostitutes-as-sex-offenders/ No, instead just brand libertarians as a bunch of selfish, paranoid kooks. There needs to be a lot of repealing all right…not so much of social security but how about repealing some of this stuff??? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/14/attacks_on_freedom_106299.html

I think a candidate for governor in Kansas pushed the idea of creating an Office of the Repealer, to get rid of old, outdated or just plain dumb laws (and there are quite a few still on the books, some that date back to the 1700s). What’s so bad about that? I think its an excellent idea! Politicians just keep adding new law after new law but never get rid of old laws that are outdated. Some never are enforced, other get selectively enforced.
And if you think outdated laws are no big deal, please read this: http://www.theagitator.com/2010/01/21/new-orleans-copsprosecutors-tagging-prostitutes-as-sex-offenders/ No, instead just brand libertarians as a bunch of selfish, paranoid kooks.

]]> By: Oldskool http://www.frumforum.com/repeal-is-not-enough/comment-page-1#comment-132789 Oldskool Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:49 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=39104#comment-132789 Reasonable and irrelevant. No matter how good or bad the ideas or intentions, the Right has an image problem. A spokeswoman du jour was on Larry King last night and came off as shrill as the news bunnies on Fox and the loudmouths on AM radio. As long as they're the face of the Right, policies really don't matter, imo. Reasonable and irrelevant. No matter how good or bad the ideas or intentions, the Right has an image problem. A spokeswoman du jour was on Larry King last night and came off as shrill as the news bunnies on Fox and the loudmouths on AM radio. As long as they’re the face of the Right, policies really don’t matter, imo.

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