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	<title>Comments on: Remembering Murtha&#8217;s Iraq War Smears</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Sean Linnane</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82609</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Linnane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82609</guid>
		<description>balconesfault -

I am not here to serve as a platform for your ideology.  Get your own blog, write your own posts. 

I am a retired Special Forces soldier. I served with honor on five continents; I continue to serve in other capacities, and I blog at STORMBRINGER:

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault -</p>
<p>I am not here to serve as a platform for your ideology.  Get your own blog, write your own posts. </p>
<p>I am a retired Special Forces soldier. I served with honor on five continents; I continue to serve in other capacities, and I blog at STORMBRINGER:</p>
<p><a href="http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82497</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82497</guid>
		<description>blowtorch_bob, if all the powers that went to war with Ba&#039;athist Iraq were merely motivated by desire for its oil, we would simply have dropped the sanctions and bought it cheap from Saddam, as he was eager to have us all do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>blowtorch_bob, if all the powers that went to war with Ba&#8217;athist Iraq were merely motivated by desire for its oil, we would simply have dropped the sanctions and bought it cheap from Saddam, as he was eager to have us all do.</p>
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		<title>By: Churl</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82453</link>
		<dc:creator>Churl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82453</guid>
		<description>&quot;We are enjoined not to speak ill of the dead, but I think an exception should be permitted for an influential legislator trying to ensure defeat for his own nation in the middle of a war. In a way, &quot;speaking ill of the dead&quot; is what Congressman Jack Murtha did for the last six years of his life, dishonoring the sacrifice of his countrymen in the cause of tarnishing their mission.&quot;

Mark Steyn

http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/2910/28/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We are enjoined not to speak ill of the dead, but I think an exception should be permitted for an influential legislator trying to ensure defeat for his own nation in the middle of a war. In a way, &#8220;speaking ill of the dead&#8221; is what Congressman Jack Murtha did for the last six years of his life, dishonoring the sacrifice of his countrymen in the cause of tarnishing their mission.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mark Steyn</p>
<p><a href="http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/2910/28/" rel="nofollow">http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/2910/28/</a></p>
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		<title>By: andydp</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82440</link>
		<dc:creator>andydp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82440</guid>
		<description>Do not speak ill of the dead. 

The Seven Sages, (Bias, Chilon, Cleobulus, Periander, Pittacus,Solon, Thales) c. 650 - c. 550 BC, From Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, bk. I, sec. 70
(650 BC - 550 BC) 

There&#039;s a reason for that statement.  Rep Murtha is now dead.  Let it lie. 

Or as said in Shakespeare&#039;s Julius Caesar:

The evil that men do lives after them, 
The good is oft interred with their bones,...

O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts, 
And men have lost their reason…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do not speak ill of the dead. </p>
<p>The Seven Sages, (Bias, Chilon, Cleobulus, Periander, Pittacus,Solon, Thales) c. 650 &#8211; c. 550 BC, From Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, bk. I, sec. 70<br />
(650 BC &#8211; 550 BC) </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a reason for that statement.  Rep Murtha is now dead.  Let it lie. </p>
<p>Or as said in Shakespeare&#8217;s Julius Caesar:</p>
<p>The evil that men do lives after them,<br />
The good is oft interred with their bones,&#8230;</p>
<p>O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,<br />
And men have lost their reason…</p>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82438</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82438</guid>
		<description>Murtha was a traitor.   Enough said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murtha was a traitor.   Enough said.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82419</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82419</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;The ballot is secret for a reason.&lt;/b&gt;

Sure - the ballot is.  But if you expect to be taken seriously when you damn one politician or party for earmarks, you should be willing to declare that you won&#039;t vote for another politician who injects earmarks into bills.

Otherwise, it&#039;s not a principle.  It&#039;s just a cynical tool to use against opponents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ballot is secret for a reason.</p>
<p>Sure &#8211; the ballot is.  But if you expect to be taken seriously when you damn one politician or party for earmarks, you should be willing to declare that you won&#8217;t vote for another politician who injects earmarks into bills.</p>
<p>Otherwise, it&#8217;s not a principle.  It&#8217;s just a cynical tool to use against opponents.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Linnane</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82381</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Linnane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82381</guid>
		<description>Sorry &quot;balconesfault&quot;

The ballot is secret for a reason.

In any case my Warrior Code forbids me to get involved in wagering with Trolls . . . no go back under your bridge and stay there . . . 

STORMBRINGER SENDS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8220;balconesfault&#8221;</p>
<p>The ballot is secret for a reason.</p>
<p>In any case my Warrior Code forbids me to get involved in wagering with Trolls . . . no go back under your bridge and stay there . . . </p>
<p>STORMBRINGER SENDS</p>
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		<title>By: GOProud</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82379</link>
		<dc:creator>GOProud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82379</guid>
		<description>I was sorry to hear that Jack Murtha died before Lady Justice could finally catch up with him and nail his butt to a solid prison wall  --not that Lady Justice has been active since Obama and Holder started telling her to stay put and not do any heavy lifting. 

Big Jack was as corrupt as any Democrat FatCat could possibly be in the 21st C and, frankly, I hope the people of PA do to his seat what the good people of MA did to Kennedy&#039;s... replace it with an honest legislator and begin the process of purging his memory and mark from the public arena.  He almost got nailed in ABSCAM but got away by snitching on fellow Democrats.  Like fellow Congressman and felon Duke Cunningham, Murtha&#039;s career in politics was a string of corrupting moments followed by periods of ego-centric excess.

Good riddance.  I hope they have a cork-screw to put that crook&#039;s coffin in its grave.  And I hope NancyBoTox&#039;s face can still shed tears --after all that surgery and those injections, it may not even be possible for her to mourn her corrupt pal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was sorry to hear that Jack Murtha died before Lady Justice could finally catch up with him and nail his butt to a solid prison wall  &#8211;not that Lady Justice has been active since Obama and Holder started telling her to stay put and not do any heavy lifting. </p>
<p>Big Jack was as corrupt as any Democrat FatCat could possibly be in the 21st C and, frankly, I hope the people of PA do to his seat what the good people of MA did to Kennedy&#8217;s&#8230; replace it with an honest legislator and begin the process of purging his memory and mark from the public arena.  He almost got nailed in ABSCAM but got away by snitching on fellow Democrats.  Like fellow Congressman and felon Duke Cunningham, Murtha&#8217;s career in politics was a string of corrupting moments followed by periods of ego-centric excess.</p>
<p>Good riddance.  I hope they have a cork-screw to put that crook&#8217;s coffin in its grave.  And I hope NancyBoTox&#8217;s face can still shed tears &#8211;after all that surgery and those injections, it may not even be possible for her to mourn her corrupt pal.</p>
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		<title>By: grackle</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82351</link>
		<dc:creator>grackle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82351</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;grackle. But Saddam was not building any WMDs nor enriching any of his yellowcake, which btw were still in UN sealed drums and buildings.&lt;/I&gt; 

I did not mention WMD or yellowcake in my comment. But since the commentor brings them up, I’ll attempt a response. Yes, the yellowcake was “still” there. Why? Because Saddam was toppled before he could use it. I’ve found that Saddam-apologists frequently imply that Bush should have waited until the nuclear materials were processed into weapons. And in that event they would no doubt declare that to act might precipitate a nuclear conflagration – and they would be right. The time to topple Saddam was BEFORE he had a chance to use the yellowcake. Also, the yellowcake was far from secure. Let us go to the report of the IAEA itself: 

&lt;I&gt;During the second IAEA inspection, Iraqi military authorities denied or restricted access to an IAEA inspection team at various sites designated for inspection by the Special Commission of the UN Security Council pursuant to Part C of UN Security Council Resolution 687. After protests, full access was granted on Wednesday, 26 June 1991, at which time activities which had been observed from a distance during the first visit had ceased and objects that had been seen had been removed.&lt;/I&gt;

Naturally, this circumstance disturbed the IAEA inspectors and a high-level IAEA group was dispatched to look into the situation: 

&lt;I&gt;The mission was to discuss with senior officials of the Iraqi government the visit by the inspection team to different locations near Baghdad which encountered refusal of access to designated sites and witnessed removal by Iraqi personnel of equipment and materials from such locations to unknown sites.&lt;/I&gt;

The IAEA mission group made objections but their protests were ignored by Saddam. 

And this is what the commentor dismisses as safely “still in UN sealed drums and buildings.” Things at the site were “removed,” and “activities” were observed at a distance by IAEA inspectors. When the inspectors tried to get a closer look Saddam refused access, in violation of agreements signed by him after his defeat in Kuwait, undoubtedly so he could have enough time to cover his tracks. Doesn’t sound very secure to me, readers. Read for yourselves the official record of Saddam’s constant deception and obstruction about his nuke program. If you do you will find that the document relates this interesting tidbit: 

&lt;I&gt;An initial examination by the IAEA indicated the existence of three parallel programmes for uranium enrichment and related equipment and facilities. &lt;/I&gt;

http://tinyurl.com/bdzcb

A sage observation from the commentor: &lt;I&gt;Yellow cake is pretty benign unless one has huge amounts of time, money and privacy to enrich it.&lt;/I&gt; 

And arsenic is “benign” unless it’s slipped into someone’s food. 

More from the commentor: &lt;I&gt;Those were the reasons we used to invade, that Saddam was a potential threat.&lt;/I&gt; 

Naw, Saddam was no threat – he just had THREE “parallel programmes for uranium enrichment and related equipment and facilities.” Please.

As a matter of fact the October, 2002, U.S. Congress Iraq War Resolution(Congress, NOT Bush) gave 10 reasons to topple Saddam, only one of which cites “Iraq&#039;s &lt;I&gt;alleged&lt;/I&gt; weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons.” Get it readers? Even the US Congress at the time KNEW that Saddam probably did not yet have any WMD but wisely chose to stop Saddam before he could develop them. Download the pdf and read them yourself. 

http://tinyurl.com/yejkg2h</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grackle. But Saddam was not building any WMDs nor enriching any of his yellowcake, which btw were still in UN sealed drums and buildings. </p>
<p>I did not mention WMD or yellowcake in my comment. But since the commentor brings them up, I’ll attempt a response. Yes, the yellowcake was “still” there. Why? Because Saddam was toppled before he could use it. I’ve found that Saddam-apologists frequently imply that Bush should have waited until the nuclear materials were processed into weapons. And in that event they would no doubt declare that to act might precipitate a nuclear conflagration – and they would be right. The time to topple Saddam was BEFORE he had a chance to use the yellowcake. Also, the yellowcake was far from secure. Let us go to the report of the IAEA itself: </p>
<p>During the second IAEA inspection, Iraqi military authorities denied or restricted access to an IAEA inspection team at various sites designated for inspection by the Special Commission of the UN Security Council pursuant to Part C of UN Security Council Resolution 687. After protests, full access was granted on Wednesday, 26 June 1991, at which time activities which had been observed from a distance during the first visit had ceased and objects that had been seen had been removed.</p>
<p>Naturally, this circumstance disturbed the IAEA inspectors and a high-level IAEA group was dispatched to look into the situation: </p>
<p>The mission was to discuss with senior officials of the Iraqi government the visit by the inspection team to different locations near Baghdad which encountered refusal of access to designated sites and witnessed removal by Iraqi personnel of equipment and materials from such locations to unknown sites.</p>
<p>The IAEA mission group made objections but their protests were ignored by Saddam. </p>
<p>And this is what the commentor dismisses as safely “still in UN sealed drums and buildings.” Things at the site were “removed,” and “activities” were observed at a distance by IAEA inspectors. When the inspectors tried to get a closer look Saddam refused access, in violation of agreements signed by him after his defeat in Kuwait, undoubtedly so he could have enough time to cover his tracks. Doesn’t sound very secure to me, readers. Read for yourselves the official record of Saddam’s constant deception and obstruction about his nuke program. If you do you will find that the document relates this interesting tidbit: </p>
<p>An initial examination by the IAEA indicated the existence of three parallel programmes for uranium enrichment and related equipment and facilities. </p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/bdzcb" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/bdzcb</a></p>
<p>A sage observation from the commentor: Yellow cake is pretty benign unless one has huge amounts of time, money and privacy to enrich it. </p>
<p>And arsenic is “benign” unless it’s slipped into someone’s food. </p>
<p>More from the commentor: Those were the reasons we used to invade, that Saddam was a potential threat. </p>
<p>Naw, Saddam was no threat – he just had THREE “parallel programmes for uranium enrichment and related equipment and facilities.” Please.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact the October, 2002, U.S. Congress Iraq War Resolution(Congress, NOT Bush) gave 10 reasons to topple Saddam, only one of which cites “Iraq&#8217;s alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons.” Get it readers? Even the US Congress at the time KNEW that Saddam probably did not yet have any WMD but wisely chose to stop Saddam before he could develop them. Download the pdf and read them yourself. </p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/yejkg2h" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yejkg2h</a></p>
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		<title>By: rbottoms</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/remembering-murthas-iraq-war-smears/comment-page-1#comment-82336</link>
		<dc:creator>rbottoms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=21906#comment-82336</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
By November 2005, however, it became politically expedient to join the growing number of Democrats criticizing the administration’s handling of the war.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You mean it finally became politically possible to say that George Bush was a complete screw up mismanaging a war that ultimately cost over 4,000 troops their lives and maimed 50,000 more along with shoveling a trillion dollars into an incinerator? That finally Senators finally started pointing out that the United States Army was being ground down to a nub sending soldiers on two, three and four combat tours while stop lossing thousands more?

All problems super-patriot chickenhawks never had to worry about since they still can&#039;t find their way to a military recruiting office and join up to fight the wars they love so much? The OP served, I served, but David Frum, Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck all have have found serving their country something to be avoided at all costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By November 2005, however, it became politically expedient to join the growing number of Democrats criticizing the administration’s handling of the war.</p>
<p>You mean it finally became politically possible to say that George Bush was a complete screw up mismanaging a war that ultimately cost over 4,000 troops their lives and maimed 50,000 more along with shoveling a trillion dollars into an incinerator? That finally Senators finally started pointing out that the United States Army was being ground down to a nub sending soldiers on two, three and four combat tours while stop lossing thousands more?</p>
<p>All problems super-patriot chickenhawks never had to worry about since they still can&#8217;t find their way to a military recruiting office and join up to fight the wars they love so much? The OP served, I served, but David Frum, Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck all have have found serving their country something to be avoided at all costs.</p>
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