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	<title>Comments on: Reflections on the Revolution in Europe</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Reason60</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66925</link>
		<dc:creator>Reason60</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66925</guid>
		<description>I am left wondering why Europe has this peculiar problem assimilating immigrants we don&#039;t. Much of what is being said about the European Muslims is exactly what was said about the Irish, the Chinese, the Jews, and so on. Yet all of them have successfully been assimilated into mainstream American culture.
I work with many Arabic and Persian Muslims (in the engineering field, Asians, Souoth Asians, and Arabic cultures are highly Dominant). Yet they seem to be perfectly adapted to the secular American culture.
I don&#039;t disagree with some of the comments made- that a full-throated defense of secular culture and tolerance should be made, that the ideals of individual liberty and freedom of conscience be made loudly and forcefully defended.

However, it is also worth noting that here in America, the agenda of the Christian Right seems eerily parallel with the Muslims- that secular culture is bad (Didn&#039;t Bill O&#039;Reilly coin &quot;Secular-Progressive&quot; as an epithet?), that individual liberties are suspect (e.g., homosexuality and feminism) and that the wall of separation should be erased.
(For a look at what Christianist Sharia looks like, check out this painting via Andrew Sullivan: http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353 )

If we say that secularism is worth defending, we should probably behave as if it were. Otherwise it just becomes a battle of &quot;Christianist Sharia is good, Muslim Sharia is bad&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am left wondering why Europe has this peculiar problem assimilating immigrants we don&#8217;t. Much of what is being said about the European Muslims is exactly what was said about the Irish, the Chinese, the Jews, and so on. Yet all of them have successfully been assimilated into mainstream American culture.<br />
I work with many Arabic and Persian Muslims (in the engineering field, Asians, Souoth Asians, and Arabic cultures are highly Dominant). Yet they seem to be perfectly adapted to the secular American culture.<br />
I don&#8217;t disagree with some of the comments made- that a full-throated defense of secular culture and tolerance should be made, that the ideals of individual liberty and freedom of conscience be made loudly and forcefully defended.</p>
<p>However, it is also worth noting that here in America, the agenda of the Christian Right seems eerily parallel with the Muslims- that secular culture is bad (Didn&#8217;t Bill O&#8217;Reilly coin &#8220;Secular-Progressive&#8221; as an epithet?), that individual liberties are suspect (e.g., homosexuality and feminism) and that the wall of separation should be erased.<br />
(For a look at what Christianist Sharia looks like, check out this painting via Andrew Sullivan: <a href="http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353" rel="nofollow">http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353</a> )</p>
<p>If we say that secularism is worth defending, we should probably behave as if it were. Otherwise it just becomes a battle of &#8220;Christianist Sharia is good, Muslim Sharia is bad&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66917</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66917</guid>
		<description>I think Frum is promoting this book, because its tone is more intellectual and staid, while covering the same ground as Steyn, Bawer, Berlinski, Fjordman and Bat Yeor.

This is Frums biggest gripe, not that those people are wrong, but that they arent polite enough to be acceptable on the New England Elite Snob Circuit.  Defending truth is more difficult when truth is raw and visceral.  When its couched in the passive voice and has a better pedigree behind it, then its defendable on the dinner circuit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Frum is promoting this book, because its tone is more intellectual and staid, while covering the same ground as Steyn, Bawer, Berlinski, Fjordman and Bat Yeor.</p>
<p>This is Frums biggest gripe, not that those people are wrong, but that they arent polite enough to be acceptable on the New England Elite Snob Circuit.  Defending truth is more difficult when truth is raw and visceral.  When its couched in the passive voice and has a better pedigree behind it, then its defendable on the dinner circuit.</p>
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		<title>By: Raider1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66912</link>
		<dc:creator>Raider1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66912</guid>
		<description>Yeah, they are colonizing Europe the way a virus &quot;colonizes&quot; its host.  They are the first wave of immigrants to the west that has demandiong that the host country assimilate to THIER values and not the other way around.  In 50 years Germany&#039;s &quot;Germanic&quot; population will be half what it is now.  Same with Greece, Spain, Italy, etc.  (The only country to not face negative pop. growth in Europe is Albania.  Anyone care to guess why??)

Oh, the maps will still have squggly lines that read &quot;Spain&quot; or &quot;France&quot; but in reality they will be Espanidan and Frankistan.    Obama is cow-towing to a Europe that NO LONGER EXISTS!  By 2015 half the Russian Army will be Muslim!  20% of France will be.  In lOndon more Londoners (people who live in London, not to be confused with &quot;British&quot;) go to Mosque than Church every weekend now.

As Steyn put it (again, not sure why Frum feels this book that re-invents the wheel is so earth-shattering or even novel) the Muslims that Europe imports are the children that the Europeans -- who suffering from the self-absorbed and ompotent ennui that only the faux Utopia of secularist cradle-to-grave socialism can induce--never bothered to have.  It is as if one day the people in Massachussettes colony one day looked up and discovered that though the people 50 and older are named Smith, Jones, Standish, Miller, etc., all the children and young adults are named Mohammed and Ahmed!  

It is not multiculturalism. It is BI-Culturalism.  Ask Bosnia, Rwanda, Northern Ireleand, etc how it works out when two distinct cultures, beliefs, etc.  vie for the same territory to which they both have a claim.  

Good luck Europe.  In 50 years, as Steyn already said, America will be standing alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, they are colonizing Europe the way a virus &#8220;colonizes&#8221; its host.  They are the first wave of immigrants to the west that has demandiong that the host country assimilate to THIER values and not the other way around.  In 50 years Germany&#8217;s &#8220;Germanic&#8221; population will be half what it is now.  Same with Greece, Spain, Italy, etc.  (The only country to not face negative pop. growth in Europe is Albania.  Anyone care to guess why??)</p>
<p>Oh, the maps will still have squggly lines that read &#8220;Spain&#8221; or &#8220;France&#8221; but in reality they will be Espanidan and Frankistan.    Obama is cow-towing to a Europe that NO LONGER EXISTS!  By 2015 half the Russian Army will be Muslim!  20% of France will be.  In lOndon more Londoners (people who live in London, not to be confused with &#8220;British&#8221;) go to Mosque than Church every weekend now.</p>
<p>As Steyn put it (again, not sure why Frum feels this book that re-invents the wheel is so earth-shattering or even novel) the Muslims that Europe imports are the children that the Europeans &#8212; who suffering from the self-absorbed and ompotent ennui that only the faux Utopia of secularist cradle-to-grave socialism can induce&#8211;never bothered to have.  It is as if one day the people in Massachussettes colony one day looked up and discovered that though the people 50 and older are named Smith, Jones, Standish, Miller, etc., all the children and young adults are named Mohammed and Ahmed!  </p>
<p>It is not multiculturalism. It is BI-Culturalism.  Ask Bosnia, Rwanda, Northern Ireleand, etc how it works out when two distinct cultures, beliefs, etc.  vie for the same territory to which they both have a claim.  </p>
<p>Good luck Europe.  In 50 years, as Steyn already said, America will be standing alone.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66906</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66906</guid>
		<description>The Turkish Prime Minister has said that it is a &quot;crime against humanity&quot; to promote and expect assimilation of Turks in Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Turkish Prime Minister has said that it is a &#8220;crime against humanity&#8221; to promote and expect assimilation of Turks in Germany.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66904</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66904</guid>
		<description>Bundesbank official under police investigation after blasting Turks for &#039;conquering Germany&#039;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6259427/Bundesbank-official-under-police-investigation-after-blasting-Turks-for-conquering-Germany.html


Even the upperclasses with lots more to lose (as this fellow will) are now starting to speak out.  The New Left zeitgeist is going to be smashed, and Conservatism, especially Social Conservatism will be on the ascendance in the West.

Institutions will be retaken by the concerted effort and those mouthing vapid Leftwing tropes will be disempowered....or have to move to Third and Second World cesspools to attack Western Civilization from their allies homelands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bundesbank official under police investigation after blasting Turks for &#8216;conquering Germany&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6259427/Bundesbank-official-under-police-investigation-after-blasting-Turks-for-conquering-Germany.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6259427/Bundesbank-official-under-police-investigation-after-blasting-Turks-for-conquering-Germany.html</a></p>
<p>Even the upperclasses with lots more to lose (as this fellow will) are now starting to speak out.  The New Left zeitgeist is going to be smashed, and Conservatism, especially Social Conservatism will be on the ascendance in the West.</p>
<p>Institutions will be retaken by the concerted effort and those mouthing vapid Leftwing tropes will be disempowered&#8230;.or have to move to Third and Second World cesspools to attack Western Civilization from their allies homelands.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66903</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66903</guid>
		<description>Its called colonization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its called colonization.</p>
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		<title>By: Raider1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66902</link>
		<dc:creator>Raider1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66902</guid>
		<description>Gee now THERE is an insightful book.  If only someone else had written this earlier.  Oh right they did.  His name is MARK STEYN and the book three years ago is called &quot;AMERICA ALONE&quot;!    Steyn&#039;s arguments are about the demographics as well as the ideology.   He views Europe as weak and aging with an unsustainable welfare state that assumed population growth, not contraction, and is falling under its own weight.

Euroep is what happens when you take God away.  You are left with a spiritual void that the Islamonuts are now filling.  And it isn&#039;t your grandfathers &quot;peaceful&quot; Islam.  Rather it is hardcore Wahabiist insanity, fueld by Saudi Arabia whose chief export is radical Islam...not oil.  Oil just pays for the former. 

Europe is dead.  Gone.  It&#039;s decline is unrecoverable, and its welfare state (that Obama wishes to emulate!) is unsustainable.  

The most common newborn boy&#039;s name in Belgium now?  Mohammed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee now THERE is an insightful book.  If only someone else had written this earlier.  Oh right they did.  His name is MARK STEYN and the book three years ago is called &#8220;AMERICA ALONE&#8221;!    Steyn&#8217;s arguments are about the demographics as well as the ideology.   He views Europe as weak and aging with an unsustainable welfare state that assumed population growth, not contraction, and is falling under its own weight.</p>
<p>Euroep is what happens when you take God away.  You are left with a spiritual void that the Islamonuts are now filling.  And it isn&#8217;t your grandfathers &#8220;peaceful&#8221; Islam.  Rather it is hardcore Wahabiist insanity, fueld by Saudi Arabia whose chief export is radical Islam&#8230;not oil.  Oil just pays for the former. </p>
<p>Europe is dead.  Gone.  It&#8217;s decline is unrecoverable, and its welfare state (that Obama wishes to emulate!) is unsustainable.  </p>
<p>The most common newborn boy&#8217;s name in Belgium now?  Mohammed.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66887</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66887</guid>
		<description>I have read some things about the British government&#039;s efforts at outreach to their Muslim community.

What&#039;s different about reaching out to the Muslims is that their interest is transnational rather than local.  The Brits will try to offer jobs, better housing, etc.  And what they hear from the Muslims is &quot;But what we really want the British government to do is change its policy on Israel.&quot;

The Jewish community has that particular transnationalist interest too.  The difference is that Jews don&#039;t periodically riot, burning cars and smashing storefront windows.

But anyway, that&#039;s not our problem.  For most of my lifetime, the Europeans have looked down their noses at my country.  I will shed no tears at Europe&#039;s difficulties with immigration or anything else.   It&#039;s about time this continent of spoiled, effete, pacifistic, pseudo-intellectuals, who existed for years sucking at either the American teat or the Soviet teat, finally got a taste of the real world--and had to make its own decisions for a change.  

In other words, SCREW THEM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read some things about the British government&#8217;s efforts at outreach to their Muslim community.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s different about reaching out to the Muslims is that their interest is transnational rather than local.  The Brits will try to offer jobs, better housing, etc.  And what they hear from the Muslims is &#8220;But what we really want the British government to do is change its policy on Israel.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Jewish community has that particular transnationalist interest too.  The difference is that Jews don&#8217;t periodically riot, burning cars and smashing storefront windows.</p>
<p>But anyway, that&#8217;s not our problem.  For most of my lifetime, the Europeans have looked down their noses at my country.  I will shed no tears at Europe&#8217;s difficulties with immigration or anything else.   It&#8217;s about time this continent of spoiled, effete, pacifistic, pseudo-intellectuals, who existed for years sucking at either the American teat or the Soviet teat, finally got a taste of the real world&#8211;and had to make its own decisions for a change.  </p>
<p>In other words, SCREW THEM.</p>
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		<title>By: DFL</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66885</link>
		<dc:creator>DFL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66885</guid>
		<description>Although Caldwell&#039;s book is useful, better writers have made the same warnings years ago, from Mark Steyn to Pat Buchanan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although Caldwell&#8217;s book is useful, better writers have made the same warnings years ago, from Mark Steyn to Pat Buchanan.</p>
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		<title>By: spuxx@popwinners.co.uk</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-europe/comment-page-1#comment-66882</link>
		<dc:creator>spuxx@popwinners.co.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=13258#comment-66882</guid>
		<description>Nice to see Frum&#039;s bigotory documented by his own hand. If he is the supposed alternative to the Palins and Limbaughs then the conservative movment in the US is doomed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see Frum&#8217;s bigotory documented by his own hand. If he is the supposed alternative to the Palins and Limbaughs then the conservative movment in the US is doomed.</p>
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