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	<title>Comments on: Reading Obama 3</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Gherald</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-45472</link>
		<dc:creator>Gherald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-45472</guid>
		<description>Mentioning nuclear power in a high-profile speech while trying to get off on the right foot regarding Tehran&#039;s &quot;civilian&quot; ambitions seems like a bad idea.

Whether Obama has plans for nuclear I don&#039;t know.  But if he does it still made sense to omit mention, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mentioning nuclear power in a high-profile speech while trying to get off on the right foot regarding Tehran&#8217;s &#8220;civilian&#8221; ambitions seems like a bad idea.</p>
<p>Whether Obama has plans for nuclear I don&#8217;t know.  But if he does it still made sense to omit mention, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: khomotso</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-45832</link>
		<dc:creator>khomotso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-45832</guid>
		<description>It seems a little disingenuous to posit a poetic intelligence by adducing an example from an occasion where one is very likely to wax poetic.  Perhaps you could quote a policy paper as an example of his inartful prose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems a little disingenuous to posit a poetic intelligence by adducing an example from an occasion where one is very likely to wax poetic.  Perhaps you could quote a policy paper as an example of his inartful prose.</p>
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		<title>By: debs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-41243</link>
		<dc:creator>debs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41243</guid>
		<description>1.  If Obama had only a poetic intelligence, I doubt he would have been such a distinguished graduate of HLS--one whom Larry Tribe called, as I&#039;ve noted to you before, one of his two or three best students ever.  I don&#039;t think you can be a legal star--including another 12 years teaching at the U. of Chicago--and not have a powerful analytical and argumentative mind, too.  I think we have to concede the point that Obama is both poetically and analytically gifted--there are such people.
 
2.  You wrote elsewhere that his remarks about terrorism were &quot;weak.&quot;  Peggy Noonan disagrees and so do I.  It&#039;s not clear to me how much more forceful he could have been without sounding hysterical and demagogic.  In a democratic society, his remarks were sober, strong, measured, and appropriate.  Republicans and conservatives, in particular, as I&#039;ve remarked to you several years ago, seem obsessed with affect--the rhetorical expression of anger and militarist militancy in particular.  Meaning, it&#039;s often seems more important how riled up the speaker or writer is than how intelligent and effective the policies are which he is articulating.  This seems entirely wrong--the Mussolinis, Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos are the creators of mass discipline thru coercive, badgering rhetoric.  We can firmly express our views--even against the dispicable--without sounding dispicable ourselves. In doing so, we thus avoid revealing the intellectual emptiness at the core of such ranting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  If Obama had only a poetic intelligence, I doubt he would have been such a distinguished graduate of HLS&#8211;one whom Larry Tribe called, as I&#8217;ve noted to you before, one of his two or three best students ever.  I don&#8217;t think you can be a legal star&#8211;including another 12 years teaching at the U. of Chicago&#8211;and not have a powerful analytical and argumentative mind, too.  I think we have to concede the point that Obama is both poetically and analytically gifted&#8211;there are such people.</p>
<p>2.  You wrote elsewhere that his remarks about terrorism were &#8220;weak.&#8221;  Peggy Noonan disagrees and so do I.  It&#8217;s not clear to me how much more forceful he could have been without sounding hysterical and demagogic.  In a democratic society, his remarks were sober, strong, measured, and appropriate.  Republicans and conservatives, in particular, as I&#8217;ve remarked to you several years ago, seem obsessed with affect&#8211;the rhetorical expression of anger and militarist militancy in particular.  Meaning, it&#8217;s often seems more important how riled up the speaker or writer is than how intelligent and effective the policies are which he is articulating.  This seems entirely wrong&#8211;the Mussolinis, Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos are the creators of mass discipline thru coercive, badgering rhetoric.  We can firmly express our views&#8211;even against the dispicable&#8211;without sounding dispicable ourselves. In doing so, we thus avoid revealing the intellectual emptiness at the core of such ranting.</p>
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		<title>By: fact based</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-41275</link>
		<dc:creator>fact based</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41275</guid>
		<description>&quot;Cost-benefit analysis, he says, no longer applies&quot;

really ? could you provide the full citation ?

When Obama makes specific proposals please show us specific cost benefit analyses that were ignored.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cost-benefit analysis, he says, no longer applies&#8221;</p>
<p>really ? could you provide the full citation ?</p>
<p>When Obama makes specific proposals please show us specific cost benefit analyses that were ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: OregonPerspective</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-39007</link>
		<dc:creator>OregonPerspective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-39007</guid>
		<description>Perhaps there&#039;s rigorous thought behind the poetry of Obama&#039;s speech.  That will become apparent in the supporting arguments for for the policy proposals which are sure to follow in the coming weeks.

When Obama&#039;s says, &quot;The question we ask today is ... whether it works,&quot; it suggests to me that his administration will welcome arguments over policy, but only if accompanied by evidence.

Is it irrational to give priority to investment in wind power, which can be put online in 2 years with little risk and help end a recession, when nuclear power would require 10 years involve still unresolved risks?

That&#039;s a debate worth having.  With rigorous, cost-benefit analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps there&#8217;s rigorous thought behind the poetry of Obama&#8217;s speech.  That will become apparent in the supporting arguments for for the policy proposals which are sure to follow in the coming weeks.</p>
<p>When Obama&#8217;s says, &#8220;The question we ask today is &#8230; whether it works,&#8221; it suggests to me that his administration will welcome arguments over policy, but only if accompanied by evidence.</p>
<p>Is it irrational to give priority to investment in wind power, which can be put online in 2 years with little risk and help end a recession, when nuclear power would require 10 years involve still unresolved risks?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a debate worth having.  With rigorous, cost-benefit analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence Darrow</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-40381</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence Darrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40381</guid>
		<description>David - thoughtful commentary.  The ability to speak and gain support without taking postitions that alienate folks is a big part of being politically successful.  Obama is one of the most politically gifted men I have ever seen. 

If he can turn practical coalition building into tangible results and actually manage a diverse coalition of advisors and build a consensu he will be successful.  If not it will be Jimmy Carter all over again. 

Love the Nucelar power arguement, I would love to see us as a country actualy invest in the plants instead of exporting our vast Uranium reserves which is not a renewable resource.

WE import hundreds of billions in foreign oil and export Uranium as a country . We need a leader to take a stand on things like this.


 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; thoughtful commentary.  The ability to speak and gain support without taking postitions that alienate folks is a big part of being politically successful.  Obama is one of the most politically gifted men I have ever seen. </p>
<p>If he can turn practical coalition building into tangible results and actually manage a diverse coalition of advisors and build a consensu he will be successful.  If not it will be Jimmy Carter all over again. </p>
<p>Love the Nucelar power arguement, I would love to see us as a country actualy invest in the plants instead of exporting our vast Uranium reserves which is not a renewable resource.</p>
<p>WE import hundreds of billions in foreign oil and export Uranium as a country . We need a leader to take a stand on things like this.</p>
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		<title>By: JJWFromME</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-47735</link>
		<dc:creator>JJWFromME</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-47735</guid>
		<description>Thaa said, &quot;Beware, then, taking the absence of explanationitis (a modern mental disease, primarily of the Left)...&quot; I suppose someone might think that if they&#039;d been living in a cave for the past 8 years. (But I agree--Milton, Coleridge, If they&#039;re not intellectuals, I don&#039;t know what one is.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thaa said, &#8220;Beware, then, taking the absence of explanationitis (a modern mental disease, primarily of the Left)&#8230;&#8221; I suppose someone might think that if they&#8217;d been living in a cave for the past 8 years. (But I agree&#8211;Milton, Coleridge, If they&#8217;re not intellectuals, I don&#8217;t know what one is.)</p>
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		<title>By: thaa</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/reading-obama-3/comment-page-1#comment-40886</link>
		<dc:creator>thaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40886</guid>
		<description>In fact, poets are likely to be far more intellectually rigorous than intellectuals--that&#039;s why we continue to read them.  And that&#039;s why most &quot;intellectuals&quot; (common as houseflies since the Enlightenment released them from the clergy) fade with the passage of their generations and their various ideological battles.

Although poets do not &quot;argue,&quot; no reading of Herbert, Wordsworth, Donne, Milton, Dickinson, Stevens, Bishop, Eliot, et al., could suggest they &quot;recoil&quot; from intellectual rigor.  Indeed, &quot;verbal formulas&quot; are alien to  poetry, although quite common among intellectuals, whether those formulas be &quot;beautiful&quot; or not.

Obama&#039;s speeches tend, therefore, not to be &quot;poetic&quot; but merely imprecise.  This is why--once a few days have passed and the memory of Obama&#039;s delivery has faded--so many people (in my experience) are unable to remember his actual language (except for the infamous Grandma passage).  Beware, then, taking the absence of explanationitis (a modern mental disease, primarily of the Left) from those speeches as evidence of (uplifting) &quot;poetry.&quot;  And beware, then, taking the presence of explanationitis (in some policy paper, say) as evidence of intellectual rigor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, poets are likely to be far more intellectually rigorous than intellectuals&#8211;that&#8217;s why we continue to read them.  And that&#8217;s why most &#8220;intellectuals&#8221; (common as houseflies since the Enlightenment released them from the clergy) fade with the passage of their generations and their various ideological battles.</p>
<p>Although poets do not &#8220;argue,&#8221; no reading of Herbert, Wordsworth, Donne, Milton, Dickinson, Stevens, Bishop, Eliot, et al., could suggest they &#8220;recoil&#8221; from intellectual rigor.  Indeed, &#8220;verbal formulas&#8221; are alien to  poetry, although quite common among intellectuals, whether those formulas be &#8220;beautiful&#8221; or not.</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s speeches tend, therefore, not to be &#8220;poetic&#8221; but merely imprecise.  This is why&#8211;once a few days have passed and the memory of Obama&#8217;s delivery has faded&#8211;so many people (in my experience) are unable to remember his actual language (except for the infamous Grandma passage).  Beware, then, taking the absence of explanationitis (a modern mental disease, primarily of the Left) from those speeches as evidence of (uplifting) &#8220;poetry.&#8221;  And beware, then, taking the presence of explanationitis (in some policy paper, say) as evidence of intellectual rigor.</p>
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