Comments on: Political Popularity And The Problem With Reforming Entitlements http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-41505 senorlechero Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:52:22 +0000 #comment-41505 NealKing....I'm sorry I missed your comment. You make good points, but each of them can be resolves without Universal Healthcare. Read mr. singers comment below, he describes a couple ways to deal with these issues. NealKing….I’m sorry I missed your comment. You make good points, but each of them can be resolves without Universal Healthcare. Read mr. singers comment below, he describes a couple ways to deal with these issues.

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-38526 senorlechero Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:48:18 +0000 #comment-38526 LOL....and of course I know you werent insulting my aunt. Thats funny LOL….and of course I know you werent insulting my aunt. Thats funny

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-51660 senorlechero Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:46:56 +0000 #comment-51660 nthmddl....I never mentioned Obama's healthcare proposals. I mentioned "Universal Healthcare", a term which usually means a single payer system, with equality of access and treatment as it's goal. I'm really surprised you would not know that nthmddl….I never mentioned Obama’s healthcare proposals. I mentioned “Universal Healthcare”, a term which usually means a single payer system, with equality of access and treatment as it’s goal. I’m really surprised you would not know that

]]> By: InTheMiddle12 http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-43505 InTheMiddle12 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:02:39 +0000 #comment-43505 Senor: 1) There is access to free counsel should you be discriminated against in hiring practice, and laws to protect people against discrimination; 2) Free food is available at food programs and there is no means test to get a meal (I worked for years in one); 3) Public transportation is not free, though highly discounted for disabled and retired and the cost is manageable; 4) For those with failed 401k programs, including my 80 something year old parents, yes, social security is their income (they worked 55 years owning a small business); 5) your description of 'universal healthcare' as President Obama campaigned for is inaccurate; 6) I meant no offense to your Aunt, or anyone else, I am stating my thoughts... and finally, your last post seems more of the same empty attacks that sadly cost the GOP the last two election cycles. I'm listening. Senor: 1) There is access to free counsel should you be discriminated against in hiring practice, and laws to protect people against discrimination; 2) Free food is available at food programs and there is no means test to get a meal (I worked for years in one); 3) Public transportation is not free, though highly discounted for disabled and retired and the cost is manageable; 4) For those with failed 401k programs, including my 80 something year old parents, yes, social security is their income (they worked 55 years owning a small business); 5) your description of ‘universal healthcare’ as President Obama campaigned for is inaccurate; 6) I meant no offense to your Aunt, or anyone else, I am stating my thoughts… and finally, your last post seems more of the same empty attacks that sadly cost the GOP the last two election cycles. I’m listening.

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-40030 senorlechero Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:29:23 +0000 #comment-40030 in fact, in the middle, your argument turns around on you really well, so thanks for making it. 1) dont have transportation to get there, 2) are too busy working 2 jobs to make a living to go, 3) don't know where to go because the public servants who should be helping them are too busy campaigning for Obama in fact, in the middle, your argument turns around on you really well, so thanks for making it. 1) dont have transportation to get there, 2) are too busy working 2 jobs to make a living to go, 3) don’t know where to go because the public servants who should be helping them are too busy campaigning for Obama

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-53337 senorlechero Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:54:04 +0000 #comment-53337 inthemiddle....are you telling me there is no job discrimination (I'll be happy to hear you say there is not)? Are you telling me that everyone has access to that "free food"? Same for public transportation? Are you admitting that Social Security has been morphed into a retirement program? The problem with all your comebacks is that Universal Healthcare is a "one size fits all" and all pay for it program. I'm also insulted that you think my aunt, a schoolteacher for 40 years, is so ignorant as to miss the point of my question, which was....If fairness and equality is so important for health care, why not the other things which are far more important? inthemiddle….are you telling me there is no job discrimination (I’ll be happy to hear you say there is not)? Are you telling me that everyone has access to that “free food”? Same for public transportation? Are you admitting that Social Security has been morphed into a retirement program? The problem with all your comebacks is that Universal Healthcare is a “one size fits all” and all pay for it program. I’m also insulted that you think my aunt, a schoolteacher for 40 years, is so ignorant as to miss the point of my question, which was….If fairness and equality is so important for health care, why not the other things which are far more important?

]]> By: InTheMiddle12 http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-44253 InTheMiddle12 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:59:08 +0000 #comment-44253 Senor, maybe this is what your Aunt would say to continue the dialogue: 1) jobs are available and free to apply for 2) there are many free food programs so people don't go hungry and food doesn't require access to a professional to dole it out, 3) there are decent public transportation systems poor people do use and 4) social security, though probably against your better wishes, still exists. Health Care, unlike those 4 examples you site, is ridiculously costly and very often unavailable, even to the employed. When someone is sick it takes priority over everything else. As someone (maybe even the bible) says: "Your health IS your wealth." I'm surprised you don't understand that. Senor, maybe this is what your Aunt would say to continue the dialogue: 1) jobs are available and free to apply for 2) there are many free food programs so people don’t go hungry and food doesn’t require access to a professional to dole it out, 3) there are decent public transportation systems poor people do use and 4) social security, though probably against your better wishes, still exists. Health Care, unlike those 4 examples you site, is ridiculously costly and very often unavailable, even to the employed. When someone is sick it takes priority over everything else. As someone (maybe even the bible) says: “Your health IS your wealth.” I’m surprised you don’t understand that.

]]> By: nealjking http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-40503 nealjking Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:12:47 +0000 #comment-40503 senorlechero, There are two reasons why health-care insurance should be universal: 1) As long as it is not, it is to the advantage of the insurance companies to reject people likely to have problems, and for people to try to hide their problems from the insurance companies; this leads to mutual dishonesty and inefficiency. 2) In any case, we all end up paying for everybody's health-care treatment anyway: People without insurance get treated in emergency rooms, and what they can't pay gets folded into everyone elses' hospital bills anyway; so it makes more sense to make sure people are treated BEFORE their conditions become emergencies: safer and cheaper (for all of us) overall. The point is that it is not the importance of health-care insurance relative to jobs, food, etc., but the way in which access to it affects the system overall. senorlechero,
There are two reasons why health-care insurance should be universal: 1) As long as it is not, it is to the advantage of the insurance companies to reject people likely to have problems, and for people to try to hide their problems from the insurance companies; this leads to mutual dishonesty and inefficiency. 2) In any case, we all end up paying for everybody’s health-care treatment anyway: People without insurance get treated in emergency rooms, and what they can’t pay gets folded into everyone elses’ hospital bills anyway; so it makes more sense to make sure people are treated BEFORE their conditions become emergencies: safer and cheaper (for all of us) overall.

The point is that it is not the importance of health-care insurance relative to jobs, food, etc., but the way in which access to it affects the system overall.

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-43988 senorlechero Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:14:35 +0000 #comment-43988 All that being said....While I agree that the GOP better get some good ideas out about health care, I think they should also try to put health care in perspective. Yesterday my wife was visiting my 84 year old retired schoolteacher, liberal, Catholic aunt, who told her "I just don't know why anyone would be against Universal Health Care". My wife smiled politely and said nothing, for she knew that my aunt doesn't want to know why. If she did my wife would have told her that #1, a job is more important than health care....why not Universal Jobs? #2, Food is more important than health care...why not Universal Food? #3, a car and gas are (for most folks) more important than health care....why not Universal Cars and Gas? And if she were snarky like me (which praise God she is not) she would have added...#4, Retirement Funds are more important than health care...why not Universal Retirement? In fact, why should you, a retired teacher, have such a wonderful retirement income when we will have only social security and whatever we can save? How is that fair? Thankfully she said none of that and my dear aunt still thinks we are wonderful but misguieded relatives. All that being said….While I agree that the GOP better get some good ideas out about health care, I think they should also try to put health care in perspective. Yesterday my wife was visiting my 84 year old retired schoolteacher, liberal, Catholic aunt, who told her “I just don’t know why anyone would be against Universal Health Care”. My wife smiled politely and said nothing, for she knew that my aunt doesn’t want to know why. If she did my wife would have told her that #1, a job is more important than health care….why not Universal Jobs? #2, Food is more important than health care…why not Universal Food? #3, a car and gas are (for most folks) more important than health care….why not Universal Cars and Gas? And if she were snarky like me (which praise God she is not) she would have added…#4, Retirement Funds are more important than health care…why not Universal Retirement? In fact, why should you, a retired teacher, have such a wonderful retirement income when we will have only social security and whatever we can save? How is that fair? Thankfully she said none of that and my dear aunt still thinks we are wonderful but misguieded relatives.

]]> By: senorlechero http://www.frumforum.com/political-popularity-and-the-problem-with-reforming-entitlements/comment-page-1#comment-50226 senorlechero Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:07:33 +0000 #comment-50226 jsinger....thank you for the clarification. I was really hoping you were aiming at conservative solutions to the publics concern over health care. Frankly I'm a bit dissappointed with the "moderate" posters at this site and they seem to be saying "We better start believing liberal ideas or we are doomed". You have some great ideas about health care and I agree that the GOP better jump all over the issue. I would add HSAs to your list. jsinger….thank you for the clarification. I was really hoping you were aiming at conservative solutions to the publics concern over health care. Frankly I’m a bit dissappointed with the “moderate” posters at this site and they seem to be saying “We better start believing liberal ideas or we are doomed”. You have some great ideas about health care and I agree that the GOP better jump all over the issue. I would add HSAs to your list.

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