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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Wake Up Call</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Raider1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70999</link>
		<dc:creator>Raider1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70999</guid>
		<description>And back to the point.  Please tell me how it is (beyond blind ideology) that you cannot see significance in the trouncing McDonnel handed out in VA especially?  

Do you honestly believe that the independents who, in two seperate state elections in two deifferent demograohics, economies, cultures etc. one a solid democratic bastion the other being touted as a new &quot;purple&quot; state (the color of your face I guess when the election results came int) who both voted 2:1 in favor fo the republican (and who voted for Obama a mere 12 months ago) do not indicate that at least at some level a rejection of the Obama agenda was partly in play here?   Corzine actually outspent Chirstie by FOUR to one and Obama vistsed both states many times. 

The dmes called VA a &quot;bellweather&quot; before the election and attached much signifcance to a Corzine victory (which they expected) as an affirmation of Obamamania...until they lost.  (Christie&#039;s margin in NJ was larger than Whitman&#039;s back in 1993 even).  Now suddenly Axelrod is out their spinning that these were insignificant results and Pelosi even trying to tout Tuesday as a victory?

What is it like to be such a prsioner of your desperate desires to cling to the world as you wish it were that you are blinded to the truth...and have the stubborness of the small-minded to go down swinging rather than accept things as they are (pedantic use of  words and googled references to dead artists aside)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And back to the point.  Please tell me how it is (beyond blind ideology) that you cannot see significance in the trouncing McDonnel handed out in VA especially?  </p>
<p>Do you honestly believe that the independents who, in two seperate state elections in two deifferent demograohics, economies, cultures etc. one a solid democratic bastion the other being touted as a new &#8220;purple&#8221; state (the color of your face I guess when the election results came int) who both voted 2:1 in favor fo the republican (and who voted for Obama a mere 12 months ago) do not indicate that at least at some level a rejection of the Obama agenda was partly in play here?   Corzine actually outspent Chirstie by FOUR to one and Obama vistsed both states many times. </p>
<p>The dmes called VA a &#8220;bellweather&#8221; before the election and attached much signifcance to a Corzine victory (which they expected) as an affirmation of Obamamania&#8230;until they lost.  (Christie&#8217;s margin in NJ was larger than Whitman&#8217;s back in 1993 even).  Now suddenly Axelrod is out their spinning that these were insignificant results and Pelosi even trying to tout Tuesday as a victory?</p>
<p>What is it like to be such a prsioner of your desperate desires to cling to the world as you wish it were that you are blinded to the truth&#8230;and have the stubborness of the small-minded to go down swinging rather than accept things as they are (pedantic use of  words and googled references to dead artists aside)?</p>
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		<title>By: Raider1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70997</link>
		<dc:creator>Raider1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70997</guid>
		<description>Otto...as Reagan would say &quot;there you go again.&quot;  (Oh, gosh, am I allowed to quote him in this context or does this not jibe with your sense of &quot;scale.&quot; I mean, after all what is a mere blog compared to a presidential debate right?)  &quot;...it’s a bit like comparing pavement artistry with Titian……&quot;  My God man you just cannot help but try to appear &quot;edjumicated.&quot;  Who is this TIT-eee-in fella ya&#039;ll be talking about.

As for hyperbole being a conservative trait?  How about Bush=Hitler, Bush=World&#039;s #1 Terrorist, Global Warming, AIDS will be #1 killer in America, 30 Million Uninsured (really?) etc.  

I resort to ad hominum with you because you are so obviously a poster child for the insecure, faux intellectual who feels the need to parade limited acdemic credentials to give substance to empty points.  You are so pathetic in your banality that you are unable to see in yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otto&#8230;as Reagan would say &#8220;there you go again.&#8221;  (Oh, gosh, am I allowed to quote him in this context or does this not jibe with your sense of &#8220;scale.&#8221; I mean, after all what is a mere blog compared to a presidential debate right?)  &#8220;&#8230;it’s a bit like comparing pavement artistry with Titian……&#8221;  My God man you just cannot help but try to appear &#8220;edjumicated.&#8221;  Who is this TIT-eee-in fella ya&#8217;ll be talking about.</p>
<p>As for hyperbole being a conservative trait?  How about Bush=Hitler, Bush=World&#8217;s #1 Terrorist, Global Warming, AIDS will be #1 killer in America, 30 Million Uninsured (really?) etc.  </p>
<p>I resort to ad hominum with you because you are so obviously a poster child for the insecure, faux intellectual who feels the need to parade limited acdemic credentials to give substance to empty points.  You are so pathetic in your banality that you are unable to see in yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70986</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70986</guid>
		<description>Raider1 // Nov 4, 2009 at 6:53 pm

........Can&#039;t you make any argument without throwing in 50% ad homs?..... Quoting Churchill in the context of a couple of governor&#039;s races in an off year is a question of scale........it&#039;s a bit like comparing pavement artistry with Titian......not that one would expect you to appreciate such nuance........I know conservatives have a weakness for this sort of hyperbole (eg. Obama is Hitler, Hussein was Hitler, containing terrorism is WW 3, etc etc) but it&#039;s awfully silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raider1 // Nov 4, 2009 at 6:53 pm</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;..Can&#8217;t you make any argument without throwing in 50% ad homs?&#8230;.. Quoting Churchill in the context of a couple of governor&#8217;s races in an off year is a question of scale&#8230;&#8230;..it&#8217;s a bit like comparing pavement artistry with Titian&#8230;&#8230;not that one would expect you to appreciate such nuance&#8230;&#8230;..I know conservatives have a weakness for this sort of hyperbole (eg. Obama is Hitler, Hussein was Hitler, containing terrorism is WW 3, etc etc) but it&#8217;s awfully silly.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70972</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70972</guid>
		<description>Oneon1isto:  &lt;blockquote&gt; but the constituencies of people who vote in off-years are entirely different than those who vote in national years. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
The constituencies of people who vote in the usual Presidential election years, let alone congressional election years, were different than the ones who turned out to vote for Obama.

Rarely do young people vote in large numbers, but they turned out in huge numbers to vote for Obama.

Black voters turn out in large numbers only when there&#039;s a candidate running who is either black himself or panders to blacks.  They turned out in huge numbers to vote for Obama.

But last night&#039;s results suggest that these phenomena won&#039;t be repeated for anyone else but Obama himself.

The election of 2008 was unique, because of the unique nature of the Dem presidential candidate.  Don&#039;t think that blacks and youth are going to turn out in huge numbers to vote for some middle-aged white Dem candidate in 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oneon1isto:   but the constituencies of people who vote in off-years are entirely different than those who vote in national years.<br />
The constituencies of people who vote in the usual Presidential election years, let alone congressional election years, were different than the ones who turned out to vote for Obama.</p>
<p>Rarely do young people vote in large numbers, but they turned out in huge numbers to vote for Obama.</p>
<p>Black voters turn out in large numbers only when there&#8217;s a candidate running who is either black himself or panders to blacks.  They turned out in huge numbers to vote for Obama.</p>
<p>But last night&#8217;s results suggest that these phenomena won&#8217;t be repeated for anyone else but Obama himself.</p>
<p>The election of 2008 was unique, because of the unique nature of the Dem presidential candidate.  Don&#8217;t think that blacks and youth are going to turn out in huge numbers to vote for some middle-aged white Dem candidate in 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Raider1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70967</link>
		<dc:creator>Raider1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70967</guid>
		<description>otto, with each post you show yourself to be more of an ideologue and a pedant to boot.  In short the kind of guy you pray not to be stuck next to on a long flight.  

You are basically saying you attach nor significance to two Republicans winning in: a) New Jersey--a state heavily democratic that had a governor outspend the challenger 2.5 to 1 or thereabouts; b) Virginia that, just one year ago, voted for a democratic presidential candidate for the first time in 44 years.  Keep humming with your hands over your ears.

Of course the races were local.  But what were the people in NJ especially rejecting?  High taxes, out of control government and corruption...sounds like Obama&#039;s admin. to me so far (certainly the first two and arguments can be made for the third).  In VA McDonnell positioned himself solidly on (real) conservative ideals.  

And seriously, what the hell is your problem with Schaeffer quoting Churchill?  Are you so transparently desperate to show how &quot;educated&quot; you are that you need to criticize him using a wonderful play on words like Sir Winston was so adept at using?  (Given the historical themes of much of Schaeffer&#039;s articles, I am pretty sure that he too knows that quote was about El Alamein...and now we now that YOU know too.  And wasn&#039;t that really the point of your last line?  You are so laughably sad my man.  Sooo sad.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>otto, with each post you show yourself to be more of an ideologue and a pedant to boot.  In short the kind of guy you pray not to be stuck next to on a long flight.  </p>
<p>You are basically saying you attach nor significance to two Republicans winning in: a) New Jersey&#8211;a state heavily democratic that had a governor outspend the challenger 2.5 to 1 or thereabouts; b) Virginia that, just one year ago, voted for a democratic presidential candidate for the first time in 44 years.  Keep humming with your hands over your ears.</p>
<p>Of course the races were local.  But what were the people in NJ especially rejecting?  High taxes, out of control government and corruption&#8230;sounds like Obama&#8217;s admin. to me so far (certainly the first two and arguments can be made for the third).  In VA McDonnell positioned himself solidly on (real) conservative ideals.  </p>
<p>And seriously, what the hell is your problem with Schaeffer quoting Churchill?  Are you so transparently desperate to show how &#8220;educated&#8221; you are that you need to criticize him using a wonderful play on words like Sir Winston was so adept at using?  (Given the historical themes of much of Schaeffer&#8217;s articles, I am pretty sure that he too knows that quote was about El Alamein&#8230;and now we now that YOU know too.  And wasn&#8217;t that really the point of your last line?  You are so laughably sad my man.  Sooo sad.)</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70959</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70959</guid>
		<description>......These were races dominated by local issues....in VA the Dems had a weak candidate who essentially ran against all the presidents policies.......In NJ despite all Corzine&#039;s problems Christie won by a 4% margin......which is just the same margin that Owen won by in a rock solid Republican seat.......it would be easy to claim there was an Obama factor in NY 23.....there wasn&#039;t any more than there was in VA and NJ. By the weekend these two races will be forgotten while there will be quite a lot of residue from from the Hoffman debacle although it will be entirely confined to the GOP.......when folks start quoting Churchill (on the battle of El Alamein of all subjects) you know they scraping the bottom of the barrel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;These were races dominated by local issues&#8230;.in VA the Dems had a weak candidate who essentially ran against all the presidents policies&#8230;&#8230;.In NJ despite all Corzine&#8217;s problems Christie won by a 4% margin&#8230;&#8230;which is just the same margin that Owen won by in a rock solid Republican seat&#8230;&#8230;.it would be easy to claim there was an Obama factor in NY 23&#8230;..there wasn&#8217;t any more than there was in VA and NJ. By the weekend these two races will be forgotten while there will be quite a lot of residue from from the Hoffman debacle although it will be entirely confined to the GOP&#8230;&#8230;.when folks start quoting Churchill (on the battle of El Alamein of all subjects) you know they scraping the bottom of the barrel.</p>
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		<title>By: Oneon1isto</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-wake-up-call/comment-page-1#comment-70949</link>
		<dc:creator>Oneon1isto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=15266#comment-70949</guid>
		<description>More than anything, the votes in NJ and VA show that voters  don&#039;t connect their own personal gubernatorial races to national politics, but to the politics of their state, and that even a still-popular Obama is unable to swing this.  Good for those voters.

You compare indies who broke for Obama in &#039;08 with indies who broke for Christie yesterday.  This is fallacy.  You can compare independent numbers all you want, but the constituencies of people who vote in off-years are entirely different than those who vote in national years.  To draw that conclusion is to ignore not only specifics of off-year elections, but the specifics of each race.

Tea-leaves (and wake up call) this is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More than anything, the votes in NJ and VA show that voters  don&#8217;t connect their own personal gubernatorial races to national politics, but to the politics of their state, and that even a still-popular Obama is unable to swing this.  Good for those voters.</p>
<p>You compare indies who broke for Obama in &#8216;08 with indies who broke for Christie yesterday.  This is fallacy.  You can compare independent numbers all you want, but the constituencies of people who vote in off-years are entirely different than those who vote in national years.  To draw that conclusion is to ignore not only specifics of off-year elections, but the specifics of each race.</p>
<p>Tea-leaves (and wake up call) this is not.</p>
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