Comments on: Obama’s Iran Fantasy http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-iran-fantasy Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: midcon http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-iran-fantasy/comment-page-1#comment-55540 midcon Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:39:12 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7376#comment-55540 Well actually Eric, his continued desire to engage the Iranians does sound like realism in international affairs. It remains in our natoional interests to talk to the Iranians because the alternative is to use other means to force them to do what we want. Further, let's be clear here, the U.S. has been completely unsuccessful in limiting membership in the nuclear club. Unfortunately there are nations who have nuclear weapons today that would give no thought to using them against their enemies should they feel threatened. That includes India, Pakistan, and Isreal. We failed to stop the spread of nuclear weapons and whatever we do now is just sticking our finger in the dike. I cannot imagine you think that U.S. has anything to gain from being confrontational with Iran. Well actually Eric, his continued desire to engage the Iranians does sound like realism in international affairs. It remains in our natoional interests to talk to the Iranians because the alternative is to use other means to force them to do what we want. Further, let’s be clear here, the U.S. has been completely unsuccessful in limiting membership in the nuclear club. Unfortunately there are nations who have nuclear weapons today that would give no thought to using them against their enemies should they feel threatened. That includes India, Pakistan, and Isreal. We failed to stop the spread of nuclear weapons and whatever we do now is just sticking our finger in the dike. I cannot imagine you think that U.S. has anything to gain from being confrontational with Iran.

]]> By: balconesfault http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-iran-fantasy/comment-page-1#comment-55463 balconesfault Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:50:24 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7376#comment-55463 " Obama refuses to acknowledge the real connection between the way a regime treats its own citizens and its credibility as a negotiating partner." I'm having a hard time telling if you're really this naive, if you just hold particular venom for Iran versus all the regimes who oppress their citizens who we deal with regularly, or if you just want a place to attack Obama. Saudi Arabia. Uzbekistan. China. Papua New Guinea. Turkmenistan. Russia. UAE. Qatar. Libya. Tunisia. All countries with horrible human rights records and little of what we call freedom available to their citizens ... who we regularly deal with. Why? Because it is in our interests to do so. Would you like the US to challenge the sovereignty of each of these governments as a precondition to us negotiating with any of them? Good luck with that. ” Obama refuses to acknowledge the real connection between the way a regime treats its own citizens and its credibility as a negotiating partner.”

I’m having a hard time telling if you’re really this naive, if you just hold particular venom for Iran versus all the regimes who oppress their citizens who we deal with regularly, or if you just want a place to attack Obama.

Saudi Arabia. Uzbekistan. China. Papua New Guinea. Turkmenistan. Russia. UAE. Qatar. Libya. Tunisia. All countries with horrible human rights records and little of what we call freedom available to their citizens … who we regularly deal with. Why? Because it is in our interests to do so.

Would you like the US to challenge the sovereignty of each of these governments as a precondition to us negotiating with any of them? Good luck with that.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-iran-fantasy/comment-page-1#comment-55462 ottovbvs Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:47:36 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=7376#comment-55462 You mean there wasn't a rigged election and deadly crackdowns on democratic protests in Egypt. This is a country that after Israel is the principal recipient of US foreign aid. Obviously all of us including Obama deplore what has happened in Iran. However, like Everest it's there so we can't ignore its existence. If we were to accept this statement: " Apparently, the self-proclaimed realist won’t let reality interfere with policymaking. Indeed, Obama refuses to acknowledge the real connection between the way a regime treats its own citizens and its credibility as a negotiating partner." We wouldn't be talking to Egypt, or Russia which ran a rigged election and has repressed protests, or a host of other countries. That's the reality Mr Trager, the world is as it is and not as we want it to be. These naive little Obama bashing excursions are basicaly juvenile. They may cheer up a few idealogues who get their prejudices reinforced but they undermine the credibility of the GOP as a serious governing party in the process. You mean there wasn’t a rigged election and deadly crackdowns on democratic protests in Egypt. This is a country that after Israel is the principal recipient of US foreign aid. Obviously all of us including Obama deplore what has happened in Iran. However, like Everest it’s there so we can’t ignore its existence. If we were to accept this statement:

” Apparently, the self-proclaimed realist won’t let reality interfere with policymaking. Indeed, Obama refuses to acknowledge the real connection between the way a regime treats its own citizens and its credibility as a negotiating partner.”

We wouldn’t be talking to Egypt, or Russia which ran a rigged election and has repressed protests, or a host of other countries. That’s the reality Mr Trager, the world is as it is and not as we want it to be. These naive little Obama bashing excursions are basicaly juvenile. They may cheer up a few idealogues who get their prejudices reinforced but they undermine the credibility of the GOP as a serious governing party in the process.

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