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	<title>Comments on: Obama’s Dithering May Have Lost the War</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-3#comment-234995</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-234995</guid>
		<description>[...] this is patently untrue. Why, there was a long and protracted debate in 2009 when Gen. McChrystal took over and requested more troops. And this debate continued [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this is patently untrue. Why, there was a long and protracted debate in 2009 when Gen. McChrystal took over and requested more troops. And this debate continued [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-3#comment-74766</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74766</guid>
		<description>Iraq was not a &quot;distraction&quot; and did not hinder victory in Afghanistan.  This country can walk and chew gum at the same time.  We fought Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan all at once.  In fact, we launched D-Day on the same day as the first-ever large scale bombing raid of the Japanese mainland, and one day after the liberation of Rome.  We had 500,000 troops in Vietnam while being fully manned and ready to repel a full-scale North Korean invasion of the South, and of a full-scale Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe.

All the crocodile tears of the Left about the supposedly forsaken opportunity for victory in Afghanistan are now revealed for what they were - a mere ruse giving us an excuse to choose to lose in Iraq, to be followed by choosing to lose in Afghanistan.   Our enemies could not hope for better friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iraq was not a &#8220;distraction&#8221; and did not hinder victory in Afghanistan.  This country can walk and chew gum at the same time.  We fought Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan all at once.  In fact, we launched D-Day on the same day as the first-ever large scale bombing raid of the Japanese mainland, and one day after the liberation of Rome.  We had 500,000 troops in Vietnam while being fully manned and ready to repel a full-scale North Korean invasion of the South, and of a full-scale Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe.</p>
<p>All the crocodile tears of the Left about the supposedly forsaken opportunity for victory in Afghanistan are now revealed for what they were &#8211; a mere ruse giving us an excuse to choose to lose in Iraq, to be followed by choosing to lose in Afghanistan.   Our enemies could not hope for better friends.</p>
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		<title>By: cpanza</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-3#comment-74565</link>
		<dc:creator>cpanza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74565</guid>
		<description>This quote from Guardino is asinine: 

&quot;And thank goodness President Truman didn’t define victory down in Germany and Japan. Consequently, American troops have been stationed there, in both countries, for more than half-a-century.  American forces, likewise, have been stationed in Kosovo ever since President Clinton sent them there in 1999. The U.S. military is a force for good in the world, and our forward-presence abroad is typically a helpful and stabilizing influence. Why, then, preclude the option of keeping U.S. forces in Afghanistan for another eight years or more? Why communicate a desire to quickly leave that country? All this does is signal weakness and irresolution in the wake of a determined and implacable foe who might now be inclined to try and wait us out.&quot;

He&#039;s comparing our stay in Afghanistan to being stationed in Japan or Germany post-WWII? Or Kosovo post-conflict? There&#039;s a difference between continually fighting battles and engaging hostile forces -- which is what we&#039;re doing in Afghanistan -- and having a contingent of forces present after the fighting is over to keep the peace. Maybe you&#039;ve forgotten what &quot;post-&quot; means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This quote from Guardino is asinine: </p>
<p>&#8220;And thank goodness President Truman didn’t define victory down in Germany and Japan. Consequently, American troops have been stationed there, in both countries, for more than half-a-century.  American forces, likewise, have been stationed in Kosovo ever since President Clinton sent them there in 1999. The U.S. military is a force for good in the world, and our forward-presence abroad is typically a helpful and stabilizing influence. Why, then, preclude the option of keeping U.S. forces in Afghanistan for another eight years or more? Why communicate a desire to quickly leave that country? All this does is signal weakness and irresolution in the wake of a determined and implacable foe who might now be inclined to try and wait us out.&#8221;</p>
<p>He&#8217;s comparing our stay in Afghanistan to being stationed in Japan or Germany post-WWII? Or Kosovo post-conflict? There&#8217;s a difference between continually fighting battles and engaging hostile forces &#8212; which is what we&#8217;re doing in Afghanistan &#8212; and having a contingent of forces present after the fighting is over to keep the peace. Maybe you&#8217;ve forgotten what &#8220;post-&#8221; means.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-3#comment-74490</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74490</guid>
		<description>......This is absurd......We&#039;ve been in Afghanistan for eight years......eight years....... that&#039;s twice as long as we were participating in the greatest war in history......for seven years and one month George Bush was president and from most of the time we had around 30,000 troops there......Obama has been president for 11 months and he&#039;s increased troop levels to around 68,000.....the request for a further increase arrived about 10 weeks ago so at worst he&#039;d &quot;dithered&quot; for ten weeks versus seven years and one month.....and according to Guardiano this is making &quot;losing&quot; in Afghanistan more likely........the reality is we lost in Afghanistan years ago when we decided to squander whatever small chance we had of semi normalizing this country......personally I don&#039;t even buy that but for those who believe this was ever possible I&#039;ll give them the benefit of the doubt.......we have a huge mess on our hands that using General Petraeus&#039; own metrics is going to require over 600,000 troops occupying the country for a decade at least to fix........the cost is going to run into the trillions........btw 600,000 means double that with rotations...... Guardiano claims to have been in the marines...... well they don&#039;t seem to have taught him much about tactics or strategy if he thinks taking a few weeks to decide on an appropriate strategy is going to make much difference to which few hills or mud villages we control while we try to prop up a corrupt govt that hadn&#039;t technically been elected until about two weeks ago</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;This is absurd&#8230;&#8230;We&#8217;ve been in Afghanistan for eight years&#8230;&#8230;eight years&#8230;&#8230;. that&#8217;s twice as long as we were participating in the greatest war in history&#8230;&#8230;for seven years and one month George Bush was president and from most of the time we had around 30,000 troops there&#8230;&#8230;Obama has been president for 11 months and he&#8217;s increased troop levels to around 68,000&#8230;..the request for a further increase arrived about 10 weeks ago so at worst he&#8217;d &#8220;dithered&#8221; for ten weeks versus seven years and one month&#8230;..and according to Guardiano this is making &#8220;losing&#8221; in Afghanistan more likely&#8230;&#8230;..the reality is we lost in Afghanistan years ago when we decided to squander whatever small chance we had of semi normalizing this country&#8230;&#8230;personally I don&#8217;t even buy that but for those who believe this was ever possible I&#8217;ll give them the benefit of the doubt&#8230;&#8230;.we have a huge mess on our hands that using General Petraeus&#8217; own metrics is going to require over 600,000 troops occupying the country for a decade at least to fix&#8230;&#8230;..the cost is going to run into the trillions&#8230;&#8230;..btw 600,000 means double that with rotations&#8230;&#8230; Guardiano claims to have been in the marines&#8230;&#8230; well they don&#8217;t seem to have taught him much about tactics or strategy if he thinks taking a few weeks to decide on an appropriate strategy is going to make much difference to which few hills or mud villages we control while we try to prop up a corrupt govt that hadn&#8217;t technically been elected until about two weeks ago</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-3#comment-74455</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74455</guid>
		<description>John Guardiano wrote:    &quot;Cheney got the word “dither” from me! I was, I believe, the first one to employ the term — on September 22 for a piece that I wrote for this site, FrumForum or New Majority. “Don’t Dither: Send More Troops to Afghanistan Now” I wrote.&quot;

You should have introduced him to the word before he hastily and foolishly rushed the country into Iraq.  Nevertheless, you are to be applauded for publicly confessing your stupidity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Guardiano wrote:    &#8220;Cheney got the word “dither” from me! I was, I believe, the first one to employ the term — on September 22 for a piece that I wrote for this site, FrumForum or New Majority. “Don’t Dither: Send More Troops to Afghanistan Now” I wrote.&#8221;</p>
<p>You should have introduced him to the word before he hastily and foolishly rushed the country into Iraq.  Nevertheless, you are to be applauded for publicly confessing your stupidity.</p>
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		<title>By: John Guardiano</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-2#comment-74442</link>
		<dc:creator>John Guardiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74442</guid>
		<description>Actually, Openhand, Cheney got the word &quot;dither&quot; from me! I was, I believe, the first one to employ the term -- on September 22 for a piece that I wrote for this site, FrumForum or New Majority. &quot;Don&#039;t Dither: Send More Troops to Afghanistan Now&quot; I wrote.

I&#039;m glad that the former Vice President (Dick Cheney) has come around to my way of thinking. He&#039;s a little late. I wish he would have weighed in earlier in the debate; however, I still welcome his engagement and contribution.

Regards,
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Openhand, Cheney got the word &#8220;dither&#8221; from me! I was, I believe, the first one to employ the term &#8212; on September 22 for a piece that I wrote for this site, FrumForum or New Majority. &#8220;Don&#8217;t Dither: Send More Troops to Afghanistan Now&#8221; I wrote.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that the former Vice President (Dick Cheney) has come around to my way of thinking. He&#8217;s a little late. I wish he would have weighed in earlier in the debate; however, I still welcome his engagement and contribution.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: openhand</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-2#comment-74441</link>
		<dc:creator>openhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74441</guid>
		<description>The war is illegal, as was the invasion of Iraq. Can you deal with this fact?
We have a concentration camp on the island of Cuba with detention without trial.
We have hijacked people all over the world, calling it rendition, and then locked them up without a trial.
We have used the same torture that we have tried others for using, only we read Orwells 1984 and decided to change it&#039;s name.

And now we blame Obama for dithering, using the term from Cheney, the guy who engineered the war in the 1st place. Well how about using another Cheney Term: Quagmire. Look it up as defined by Cheney in 1994 or are you too juvenile to remeber?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The war is illegal, as was the invasion of Iraq. Can you deal with this fact?<br />
We have a concentration camp on the island of Cuba with detention without trial.<br />
We have hijacked people all over the world, calling it rendition, and then locked them up without a trial.<br />
We have used the same torture that we have tried others for using, only we read Orwells 1984 and decided to change it&#8217;s name.</p>
<p>And now we blame Obama for dithering, using the term from Cheney, the guy who engineered the war in the 1st place. Well how about using another Cheney Term: Quagmire. Look it up as defined by Cheney in 1994 or are you too juvenile to remeber?</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-2#comment-74375</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74375</guid>
		<description>sinz:   &quot; If it doesn’t succeed, then we conservatives are going to hang its failure around Obama’s neck.
This is the job of the “loyal opposition” in wartime.&quot;

By all means, the loyal opposition is required to make a comeback.  But to &#039;hang its failure around Obama&#039;s neck?&quot;   Very harsh indeed.   I think you make too much of who&#039;s going to be remembered for failure.  Americans are fully understanding of the complexities of these two wars, and I don&#039;t know anyone who is going to forget that it was 8  years of Republican rule that brought us to these wars.  The &#039;war&#039; will be won or it will be another futile gesture draining our resources.  Either way, the American people will understand that Obama had a Pandora&#039;s box on his hands wide open and the furies already flying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz:   &#8221; If it doesn’t succeed, then we conservatives are going to hang its failure around Obama’s neck.<br />
This is the job of the “loyal opposition” in wartime.&#8221;</p>
<p>By all means, the loyal opposition is required to make a comeback.  But to &#8216;hang its failure around Obama&#8217;s neck?&#8221;   Very harsh indeed.   I think you make too much of who&#8217;s going to be remembered for failure.  Americans are fully understanding of the complexities of these two wars, and I don&#8217;t know anyone who is going to forget that it was 8  years of Republican rule that brought us to these wars.  The &#8216;war&#8217; will be won or it will be another futile gesture draining our resources.  Either way, the American people will understand that Obama had a Pandora&#8217;s box on his hands wide open and the furies already flying.</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-2#comment-74374</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74374</guid>
		<description>It is a &#039;values&#039; moment in our history.  As David Brooks correctly assesses: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/opinion/24brooks.html?_r=1

I agree with Spartacus.  Why not raise taxes to pay for the war as well as healthcare reform?  Is this country incapable of meeting its obligations in foreign affairs as well as domestic?   Where&#039;s the sacrifice that should be part and parcel of a great society, one that can assure our soldiers have the best resources available to them to win the war, and the sacrifice of understanding that taking care of we shouldn&#039;t be deciding who will get adequate healthcare or who doesn&#039;t.    Because unless you live in a glass bubble of wealth, at some point of another, someone in everyone&#039;s family will be touched by the rising costs. 

 And no &#039;great nation&#039; should allow 45,000 Americans to die each year from lack of healthcare coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a &#8216;values&#8217; moment in our history.  As David Brooks correctly assesses: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/opinion/24brooks.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/opinion/24brooks.html?_r=1</a></p>
<p>I agree with Spartacus.  Why not raise taxes to pay for the war as well as healthcare reform?  Is this country incapable of meeting its obligations in foreign affairs as well as domestic?   Where&#8217;s the sacrifice that should be part and parcel of a great society, one that can assure our soldiers have the best resources available to them to win the war, and the sacrifice of understanding that taking care of we shouldn&#8217;t be deciding who will get adequate healthcare or who doesn&#8217;t.    Because unless you live in a glass bubble of wealth, at some point of another, someone in everyone&#8217;s family will be touched by the rising costs. </p>
<p> And no &#8216;great nation&#8217; should allow 45,000 Americans to die each year from lack of healthcare coverage.</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-dithering-may-have-lost-the-war/comment-page-2#comment-74357</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16647#comment-74357</guid>
		<description>Sinz:    &quot;You dodged my question.  Which is more important for the year 2010: Finishing the job in Afghanistan so our troops can come home having accomplished their mission; or health care which is always going to be an issue as long as America exists?&quot;

I didn&#039;t dodge your question.  I rejected its premise, which is that we can only do one or the other, and offered the alternative of doing both by raising taxes.  If we&#039;re going to rank the options, as we should do, then clearly raising taxes is preferable to going into debt to end the war or to save 45,000 lives each year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz:    &#8220;You dodged my question.  Which is more important for the year 2010: Finishing the job in Afghanistan so our troops can come home having accomplished their mission; or health care which is always going to be an issue as long as America exists?&#8221;</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t dodge your question.  I rejected its premise, which is that we can only do one or the other, and offered the alternative of doing both by raising taxes.  If we&#8217;re going to rank the options, as we should do, then clearly raising taxes is preferable to going into debt to end the war or to save 45,000 lives each year.</p>
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