<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Obamacare: More Regulation, Less Innovation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78162</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78162</guid>
		<description>and just to make sure that the creditors (read: savers) are totally wiped out, our brilliant Fed has doubled the monetary base:
http://www.drorism.com/blog/Monetary%20Base%20.png

this alone would be tremendously troubling to a more educated population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and just to make sure that the creditors (read: savers) are totally wiped out, our brilliant Fed has doubled the monetary base:<br />
<a href="http://www.drorism.com/blog/Monetary%20Base%20.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.drorism.com/blog/Monetary%20Base%20.png</a></p>
<p>this alone would be tremendously troubling to a more educated population.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: canadianmoderate</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78159</link>
		<dc:creator>canadianmoderate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78159</guid>
		<description>Though I am not as laissez-faire as you obviously are, believe me, I do what I can to edify the lefties I know about economics. It works at times, too. I&#039;ve let some people borrow &#039;Basic Economics&#039; by Sowell, and it has gotten a pretty good response. That was one of the books that pulled me away from my former leftiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I am not as laissez-faire as you obviously are, believe me, I do what I can to edify the lefties I know about economics. It works at times, too. I&#8217;ve let some people borrow &#8216;Basic Economics&#8217; by Sowell, and it has gotten a pretty good response. That was one of the books that pulled me away from my former leftiness.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78157</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78157</guid>
		<description>canadian,
how do you square a circle?  you don&#039;t - you start the drawing over!

i am unsure of your age, but in pleading the case for &quot;reforming&quot; a hopelessly broken system (see the entitlement bomb) you sound like a resigned old cad.  frum and his ideas for &quot;reforming&quot; the welfare state are ludicrous.  if any of the ideas work, it will be very mildly, and for an extremely limited duration.  at that point, all the energy spent on petty, purposeless reforms will be wasted, as a new crises emerges and the statists take more ground.

what we need is severe distinctions between principles and approaches.  we need people who are conversant in classical political economy, and able to rebut their opponents with wit and fact.  we need a populist who can deliver on the promises - liberty, after all, is popular.

the nature of interventionism is like the nature of whack-a-mole.  you hit down one problem to prop up another, worse problem, until there is a legitimate political crisis.  we&#039;ve seen this in the 1930s and 1970s.  while it is attractive to think of obama as carter, whomever as the eventual reagan, i don&#039;t think hastening our decline into carterism or new dealism (like frum does, regularly) is particularly wise, intelligent, or benevolent.  i think it&#039;s imprudent, for precisely the reason stated in the title of this article: OBAMACARE.  such programs never go away - we&#039;re still stuck with social security, medicare, medicaid, schip, etc., all while the country has ~$60 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

what kind of nation does that to its youth?  you may live in canada, and not care very much because you don&#039;t pay into the tax system here, but millions upon millions of americans are going to see a massive cut to benefits.  a government propagated lie that i can&#039;t rightly support in any form.

the welfare state doesn&#039;t work because it can&#039;t work.  it will collapse in on its own weight.  i&#039;d rather say what i can now than make meek, bland, and compromising suggestions that only obfuscate the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>canadian,<br />
how do you square a circle?  you don&#8217;t &#8211; you start the drawing over!</p>
<p>i am unsure of your age, but in pleading the case for &#8220;reforming&#8221; a hopelessly broken system (see the entitlement bomb) you sound like a resigned old cad.  frum and his ideas for &#8220;reforming&#8221; the welfare state are ludicrous.  if any of the ideas work, it will be very mildly, and for an extremely limited duration.  at that point, all the energy spent on petty, purposeless reforms will be wasted, as a new crises emerges and the statists take more ground.</p>
<p>what we need is severe distinctions between principles and approaches.  we need people who are conversant in classical political economy, and able to rebut their opponents with wit and fact.  we need a populist who can deliver on the promises &#8211; liberty, after all, is popular.</p>
<p>the nature of interventionism is like the nature of whack-a-mole.  you hit down one problem to prop up another, worse problem, until there is a legitimate political crisis.  we&#8217;ve seen this in the 1930s and 1970s.  while it is attractive to think of obama as carter, whomever as the eventual reagan, i don&#8217;t think hastening our decline into carterism or new dealism (like frum does, regularly) is particularly wise, intelligent, or benevolent.  i think it&#8217;s imprudent, for precisely the reason stated in the title of this article: OBAMACARE.  such programs never go away &#8211; we&#8217;re still stuck with social security, medicare, medicaid, schip, etc., all while the country has ~$60 trillion in unfunded liabilities.</p>
<p>what kind of nation does that to its youth?  you may live in canada, and not care very much because you don&#8217;t pay into the tax system here, but millions upon millions of americans are going to see a massive cut to benefits.  a government propagated lie that i can&#8217;t rightly support in any form.</p>
<p>the welfare state doesn&#8217;t work because it can&#8217;t work.  it will collapse in on its own weight.  i&#8217;d rather say what i can now than make meek, bland, and compromising suggestions that only obfuscate the problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78154</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78154</guid>
		<description>canadian,
&quot;How do I explain to people like this that we need more private health care delivery in Canada?&quot;
You start by clearly explaining those terms.  That&#039;s why they&#039;re listed, with plenty of reference - for your own edification, so that you may edify your doppelganger ringleader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>canadian,<br />
&#8220;How do I explain to people like this that we need more private health care delivery in Canada?&#8221;<br />
You start by clearly explaining those terms.  That&#8217;s why they&#8217;re listed, with plenty of reference &#8211; for your own edification, so that you may edify your doppelganger ringleader.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: canadianmoderate</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78153</link>
		<dc:creator>canadianmoderate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78153</guid>
		<description>Also, WillyP, I understand that you want free-market solutions for (just about) everything, and there&#039;s nothing wrong with that. But what do you think your ideas are realistic? I can envision a world where things work like that, and it&#039;s an attractive idea, but do you not agree that it&#039;s unrealistic to expect to see anything like that in our lifetimes? Who&#039;s going to get rid of the welfare state? I&#039;m not trying to defend the welfare state here, but it&#039;s probably going to be the status quo for a while. Don&#039;t you think it would be more constructive not only to rail against the welfare state but to try and think about ways to make it better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, WillyP, I understand that you want free-market solutions for (just about) everything, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that. But what do you think your ideas are realistic? I can envision a world where things work like that, and it&#8217;s an attractive idea, but do you not agree that it&#8217;s unrealistic to expect to see anything like that in our lifetimes? Who&#8217;s going to get rid of the welfare state? I&#8217;m not trying to defend the welfare state here, but it&#8217;s probably going to be the status quo for a while. Don&#8217;t you think it would be more constructive not only to rail against the welfare state but to try and think about ways to make it better?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: canadianmoderate</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78152</link>
		<dc:creator>canadianmoderate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78152</guid>
		<description>WillyP, maybe you didn&#039;t get what I was saying. I have no trouble distinguishing between those terms, rather it&#039;s people I talk to - all of them on the left - that seem to have that problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WillyP, maybe you didn&#8217;t get what I was saying. I have no trouble distinguishing between those terms, rather it&#8217;s people I talk to &#8211; all of them on the left &#8211; that seem to have that problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-4#comment-78149</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78149</guid>
		<description>sinz, are you willfully distorting everything I say?  who has been louder calling for DEREGULATION than me, from decoupling the ties of insurance and employment than me?

Besides all that bullshit about peace of mind and security (which no matter how much you will it, can never be accomplished outside of productive work, which the private sector alone produces), you&#039;ve read my last ~20 or so postings about further deregulating the industry, and claim i support the &quot;status quo.&quot;  Dishonesty; no two ways about that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz, are you willfully distorting everything I say?  who has been louder calling for DEREGULATION than me, from decoupling the ties of insurance and employment than me?</p>
<p>Besides all that bullshit about peace of mind and security (which no matter how much you will it, can never be accomplished outside of productive work, which the private sector alone produces), you&#8217;ve read my last ~20 or so postings about further deregulating the industry, and claim i support the &#8220;status quo.&#8221;  Dishonesty; no two ways about that!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WillyP</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-3#comment-78148</link>
		<dc:creator>WillyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78148</guid>
		<description>canadianmoderate,
&quot;She had no idea that ‘money,’ ‘capital,’ ‘revenue’ and ‘profit’ all mean different things – and she’s somewhat of a ringleader among lefties at my university.&quot;

Money is the medium of exchange; http://bastiat.org/en/what_is_money.html
Capital resources are what enables production; 
&quot;Capital,&quot; in the vulgar, imprecise, and confusing sense, is money used to fund ventures;
(see here: http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/MarxismUnmasked.pdf ...lecture #6)
Revenue is all money entering the firm;
Profit is what&#039;s left (if anything) after costs.
(see here http://mises.org/daily/2321)

It isn&#039;t so difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>canadianmoderate,<br />
&#8220;She had no idea that ‘money,’ ‘capital,’ ‘revenue’ and ‘profit’ all mean different things – and she’s somewhat of a ringleader among lefties at my university.&#8221;</p>
<p>Money is the medium of exchange; <a href="http://bastiat.org/en/what_is_money.html" rel="nofollow">http://bastiat.org/en/what_is_money.html</a><br />
Capital resources are what enables production;<br />
&#8220;Capital,&#8221; in the vulgar, imprecise, and confusing sense, is money used to fund ventures;<br />
(see here: <a href="http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/MarxismUnmasked.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/MarxismUnmasked.pdf</a> &#8230;lecture #6)<br />
Revenue is all money entering the firm;<br />
Profit is what&#8217;s left (if anything) after costs.<br />
(see here <a href="http://mises.org/daily/2321)" rel="nofollow">http://mises.org/daily/2321)</a></p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t so difficult.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-3#comment-78147</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78147</guid>
		<description>WillyP: &lt;blockquote&gt; more importantly, what does 85%-90% of the population have to gain who already have excellent coverage and treatment options?  &lt;/blockquote&gt;
The same thing I would have gained, had health care reform been enacted 20 years earlier:

The peace of mind knowing that they can never lose their health insurance, even if they become too sick to work, even if their employer goes bankrupt, even if their employer outsources their jobs to a foreign country.  The peace of mind knowing that if they want to kiss their dead-end job goodbye and go into business for themselves, they will still be insured and can concentrate on building their new business instead of going begging for health care.

You just don&#039;t get it.

The current system, which links your health insurance to your employment, is an anachronism in today&#039;s dynamic economy.  Free-market conservatives always championed &quot;creative destruction&quot; in a dynamic economy.  But there&#039;s nothing dynamic about being bound to your employer like a serf, afraid of losing your job because you won&#039;t have the money to pay for your continuing health care or that of your dependents.

When conservatives used to champion a free-market approach to fixing this problem, at least they had a proposal on the table.  But YOU seem to be championing the status quo.  Given that this status quo was enacted by FDR as a quick fix for his wage-and-price controls, that&#039;s really strange coming from a guy who quotes Mises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WillyP:  more importantly, what does 85%-90% of the population have to gain who already have excellent coverage and treatment options?<br />
The same thing I would have gained, had health care reform been enacted 20 years earlier:</p>
<p>The peace of mind knowing that they can never lose their health insurance, even if they become too sick to work, even if their employer goes bankrupt, even if their employer outsources their jobs to a foreign country.  The peace of mind knowing that if they want to kiss their dead-end job goodbye and go into business for themselves, they will still be insured and can concentrate on building their new business instead of going begging for health care.</p>
<p>You just don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>The current system, which links your health insurance to your employment, is an anachronism in today&#8217;s dynamic economy.  Free-market conservatives always championed &#8220;creative destruction&#8221; in a dynamic economy.  But there&#8217;s nothing dynamic about being bound to your employer like a serf, afraid of losing your job because you won&#8217;t have the money to pay for your continuing health care or that of your dependents.</p>
<p>When conservatives used to champion a free-market approach to fixing this problem, at least they had a proposal on the table.  But YOU seem to be championing the status quo.  Given that this status quo was enacted by FDR as a quick fix for his wage-and-price controls, that&#8217;s really strange coming from a guy who quotes Mises.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/obamacare-more-regulation-less-innovation/comment-page-3#comment-78146</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18534#comment-78146</guid>
		<description>WillyP: &lt;blockquote&gt; it’s meant to catch those who fall through all cracks, and when private charity is unable to help.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well you just opened the door.

Those &quot;who fall through all cracks&quot; include EVERYONE who lost their job due to severe illness, and as a result, lost their group health insurance too.  Now they can&#039;t purchase individual insurance due to a pre-existing condition.  I would be one of them if it weren&#039;t for RomneyCare.

That cohort includes tens of millions of people.  It has to.  Because the longer you live, the more likely you&#039;ll get chronically sick.  It&#039;s that simple.

And private charity can&#039;t afford to take on all those cases.  Consider my situation.  My first year of treatment cost in the neighborhood of $100,000, and future years look to be only slightly less expensive.  Multiply that number by several million, and ask yourself where private charity is going to get the funds.

You developed your illness as a child, and your parents were still working, presumably already had insurance, and that paid for your medical bills.  What if the situation had been reversed, and your PARENTS had become chronically ill and unable to work to support you?  And if they had lost their insurance?  What would have become of you then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WillyP:  it’s meant to catch those who fall through all cracks, and when private charity is unable to help.<br />
Well you just opened the door.</p>
<p>Those &#8220;who fall through all cracks&#8221; include EVERYONE who lost their job due to severe illness, and as a result, lost their group health insurance too.  Now they can&#8217;t purchase individual insurance due to a pre-existing condition.  I would be one of them if it weren&#8217;t for RomneyCare.</p>
<p>That cohort includes tens of millions of people.  It has to.  Because the longer you live, the more likely you&#8217;ll get chronically sick.  It&#8217;s that simple.</p>
<p>And private charity can&#8217;t afford to take on all those cases.  Consider my situation.  My first year of treatment cost in the neighborhood of $100,000, and future years look to be only slightly less expensive.  Multiply that number by several million, and ask yourself where private charity is going to get the funds.</p>
<p>You developed your illness as a child, and your parents were still working, presumably already had insurance, and that paid for your medical bills.  What if the situation had been reversed, and your PARENTS had become chronically ill and unable to work to support you?  And if they had lost their insurance?  What would have become of you then?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

