Comments on: Obama: Carter 2.0 http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20 Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Barack Obama News » Blog Archive » Obama: Carter 2.0 http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60789 Barack Obama News » Blog Archive » Obama: Carter 2.0 Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:46:35 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60789 [...] Original post [...] [...] Original post [...]

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60684 ottovbvs Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:05:29 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60684 jagerine // Aug 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm "Of all the good sense I read on here, please be real. This sounds like a campaign attack." ........I'm shocked that you could suggest such a thing jagerine // Aug 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm
“Of all the good sense I read on here, please be real. This sounds like a campaign attack.”

……..I’m shocked that you could suggest such a thing

]]> By: jagerine http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60682 jagerine Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:01:56 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60682 Of all the good sense I read on here, please be real. This sounds like a campaign attack. "...the president has gone from being a self-confessed failure at his chosen profession of community organizing to the toughest executive position in the world" He was a state legislator and then a US senator (even if for a short time) between that. Please don't skip a whole decade, it just devalues your other points. Of all the good sense I read on here, please be real. This sounds like a campaign attack.

“…the president has gone from being a self-confessed failure at his chosen profession of community organizing to the toughest executive position in the world”

He was a state legislator and then a US senator (even if for a short time) between that. Please don’t skip a whole decade, it just devalues your other points.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60665 ottovbvs Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:48:40 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60665 midcon // Aug 18, 2009 at 11:30 am " I would not classify McCain as a high visionary. It doesn’t mean he would not have been an effective CEO." ...........the biggest thing he ever managed..... his electoral campaign......he massively screwed up.....his committee work and personal experiences fit him for a consigliere role at best......he wouldn't for example be half the Defsec that Gates is......I agree that most successful CEO's are visionaries but they also have considerable exec skills......vision alone can get you into a lot of trouble......and there is no on the job training for being president.......even on a smaller scale making the transition from an exec speciality like sales/marketing or ops to being chief exec is a huge culture shock......and I'm speaking from personal experience midcon // Aug 18, 2009 at 11:30 am
” I would not classify McCain as a high visionary. It doesn’t mean he would not have been an effective CEO.”

………..the biggest thing he ever managed….. his electoral campaign……he massively screwed up…..his committee work and personal experiences fit him for a consigliere role at best……he wouldn’t for example be half the Defsec that Gates is……I agree that most successful CEO’s are visionaries but they also have considerable exec skills……vision alone can get you into a lot of trouble……and there is no on the job training for being president…….even on a smaller scale making the transition from an exec speciality like sales/marketing or ops to being chief exec is a huge culture shock……and I’m speaking from personal experience

]]> By: midcon http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60657 midcon Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:30:45 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60657 sinz, Most CEOs are "visionaries." When you look at the CEO's of major corporations words like visionary, charismatic, intuitive, attention to detail, management by objective, etc. etc. are common attributes. I believe that the CEO type - real CEOs, polictical, and military leaders, share most of these characteristics. It is true that some have more of some attributes than others. For instance, I would not classify McCain as a high visionary. It doesn't mean he would not have been an effective CEO. On the other hand he had significant experience in government/military. So for me, it's an exercise in balancing attributes with need to achieve the maximum ROI. Not to get into a debate, but my assessment of Obama's resume was that it was too thin for the CEO slot. I guess that meant I valued experience over visionary for the top job. Of course now Obama is getting his experience at the end of the firehose. Some survive trial by fire; some don't. My preference was that OJT (on the job training) be conducted outside of the presidency. In any event it will be fun to do an performance assessment at the end of 4 years. sinz, Most CEOs are “visionaries.” When you look at the CEO’s of major corporations words like visionary, charismatic, intuitive, attention to detail, management by objective, etc. etc. are common attributes. I believe that the CEO type – real CEOs, polictical, and military leaders, share most of these characteristics. It is true that some have more of some attributes than others. For instance, I would not classify McCain as a high visionary. It doesn’t mean he would not have been an effective CEO. On the other hand he had significant experience in government/military. So for me, it’s an exercise in balancing attributes with need to achieve the maximum ROI. Not to get into a debate, but my assessment of Obama’s resume was that it was too thin for the CEO slot. I guess that meant I valued experience over visionary for the top job. Of course now Obama is getting his experience at the end of the firehose. Some survive trial by fire; some don’t. My preference was that OJT (on the job training) be conducted outside of the presidency. In any event it will be fun to do an performance assessment at the end of 4 years.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60656 sinz54 Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:13:15 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60656 It's premature to compare Obama to Jimmy Carter. Because the environments in which each have had to operate are so different. In 1977, Jimmy Carter didn't walk into a nation in economic collapse, fighting two wars at the same time, with our economic problems threatening to take down the entire global financial system. He micromanaged a lot of things that were NOT anywhere near that urgent or perilous. In 2009, Obama had to face all those problems. It's hard to avoid dealing with too many things at the outset, when you've been handed too many things at once! Obama has been flitting around trying to stabilize a nation in deep trouble. midcon: In that sense, Obama is like a new CEO, just brought in to try to rescue a bankrupt company whose products are spurned by most customers and whose employees are screaming bloody murder. That requires a whole different breed of CEO than what you described. It requires a true visionary. And both FDR and Reagan were visionaries. They believed that the way to rescue America from its parlous situation was with a new vision of American government and society. We can get a better measure of the man after some of these immediate crises have ebbed somewhat--more troops home from Iraq, lower unemployment. It’s premature to compare Obama to Jimmy Carter.
Because the environments in which each have had to operate are so different.

In 1977, Jimmy Carter didn’t walk into a nation in economic collapse, fighting two wars at the same time, with our economic problems threatening to take down the entire global financial system. He micromanaged a lot of things that were NOT anywhere near that urgent or perilous.

In 2009, Obama had to face all those problems. It’s hard to avoid dealing with too many things at the outset, when you’ve been handed too many things at once! Obama has been flitting around trying to stabilize a nation in deep trouble.

midcon: In that sense, Obama is like a new CEO, just brought in to try to rescue a bankrupt company whose products are spurned by most customers and whose employees are screaming bloody murder. That requires a whole different breed of CEO than what you described. It requires a true visionary.

And both FDR and Reagan were visionaries. They believed that the way to rescue America from its parlous situation was with a new vision of American government and society.

We can get a better measure of the man after some of these immediate crises have ebbed somewhat–more troops home from Iraq, lower unemployment.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60652 ottovbvs Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:03:25 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60652 oldgal // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:47 am "'A micromanager tells you exactly what to do without telling you why you are doing it or what results are expected…a la…go to the freezer get the fries." ......While this could be true it's not really the definition of a micro manager...........for example I've no doubt whatever that Murdoch micro managed the acquisition of the WSJ......the notion that he did so without endlessly discussing goals, strategy and tactics ad infinitum with his lieutenants and advisers doesn't compute.........I agree about the brilliant management of Obama's campaign but the notion that micromanagemt of strategically or tactically important issues is incompatible with being a "good" overall manager is basically preposterous which is why I know NM Gusher doesn't have much practical management experience. oldgal // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:47 am

“‘A micromanager tells you exactly what to do without telling you why you are doing it or what results are expected…a la…go to the freezer get the fries.”

……While this could be true it’s not really the definition of a micro manager………..for example I’ve no doubt whatever that Murdoch micro managed the acquisition of the WSJ……the notion that he did so without endlessly discussing goals, strategy and tactics ad infinitum with his lieutenants and advisers doesn’t compute………I agree about the brilliant management of Obama’s campaign but the notion that micromanagemt of strategically or tactically important issues is incompatible with being a “good” overall manager is basically preposterous which is why I know NM Gusher doesn’t have much practical management experience.

]]> By: oldgal http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60648 oldgal Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:47:08 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60648 A micromanager tells you exactly what to do without telling you why you are doing it or what results are expected...a la...go to the freezer get the fries. Obama seems exceptionally good at laying out the expectations and supporting his staff to deliver the results. His campaign pulled off the impossible by empowering the grass roots organizers, setting expectations on their comportment and results and providing training...an exceptional job of management. The level of detail with which a manager is comfortable has more to do with decision making than people (or to use the latest horrible corporatese...human capital) management. I like a manager who makes informed decisions, gathering information along the way where opportunity presents itself. I have found managers who make decisions without background knowledge and without multiple points of view tend to be ideologic in nature and unable to recognize or learn from their mistakes. A micromanager tells you exactly what to do without telling you why you are doing it or what results are expected…a la…go to the freezer get the fries. Obama seems exceptionally good at laying out the expectations and supporting his staff to deliver the results. His campaign pulled off the impossible by empowering the grass roots organizers, setting expectations on their comportment and results and providing training…an exceptional job of management.
The level of detail with which a manager is comfortable has more to do with decision making than people (or to use the latest horrible corporatese…human capital) management. I like a manager who makes informed decisions, gathering information along the way where opportunity presents itself. I have found managers who make decisions without background knowledge and without multiple points of view tend to be ideologic in nature and unable to recognize or learn from their mistakes.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60647 ottovbvs Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:46:11 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60647 midcon // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:27 am " I was scared to death they knew more than I did and I would not be able to answer specific questions" ........Naturally.....no one want to look a fool and most of us have some professional pride.....shwo me a guy without professional pride whether he's a design engineer or a gardener and I'll show you a wanker .......the guy I mentioned once fired me at dinner and rehired me at breakfast next day....true "I don’t know enough about Palin or McCain to form an opinion regarding their management skills and abilities so I can’t comment." .......The 2008 campaign? Churl // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:35 am ........why not for once show a bit of maturity midcon // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:27 am
” I was scared to death they knew more than I did and I would not be able to answer specific questions”

……..Naturally…..no one want to look a fool and most of us have some professional pride…..shwo me a guy without professional pride whether he’s a design engineer or a gardener and I’ll show you a wanker …….the guy I mentioned once fired me at dinner and rehired me at breakfast next day….true

“I don’t know enough about Palin or McCain to form an opinion regarding their management skills and abilities so I can’t comment.”

…….The 2008 campaign?

Churl // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:35 am

……..why not for once show a bit of maturity

]]> By: Churl http://www.frumforum.com/obama-carter-20/comment-page-1#comment-60646 Churl Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:35:51 +0000 http://www.newmajority.com/?p=10100#comment-60646 Bush bad, therefore Obama good. Q.E.D. Bush bad, therefore Obama good.

Q.E.D.

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