Comments on: Not Conservative Enough? An Inquiry http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Rhampton http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-47354 Rhampton Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:41:10 +0000 #comment-47354 The GOP simply has to add moderate Republicans to the base. Why? There are two highly reliable sources that I use to track the Republicans and/or Conservative Trends, and this is what they have reported -- "There was substantial issue fatigue related to the moral issues that usually rev up the troops on the right. Although the candidates had very distinct and dissimilar views on moral issues such as abortion andy marriage, those differences were not deal breakers for most voters. Voters are tired of fighting battles that seem interminable. And in a year when there were so many other significant crises and conflicts to consider, peoples focus shifted away from the usual throat-wringing issues." (Barna Group, November 11, 2008) -- The largest segment of the population - 24% - consider themselves to be both fiscally and socially conservative. Seventeen percent (17%) say they are both fiscally and socially moderate ... Among Republicans, 47% are both fiscally and socially conservative.(Rasmussen Reports, November 24, 2007) The GOP simply has to add moderate Republicans to the base. Why? There are two highly reliable sources that I use to track the Republicans and/or Conservative Trends, and this is what they have reported — “There was substantial issue fatigue related to the moral issues that usually rev up the troops on the right. Although the candidates had very distinct and dissimilar views on moral issues such as abortion andy marriage, those differences were not deal breakers for most voters. Voters are tired of fighting battles that seem interminable. And in a year when there were so many other significant crises and conflicts to consider, peoples focus shifted away from the usual throat-wringing issues.” (Barna Group, November 11, 2008) — The largest segment of the population – 24% – consider themselves to be both fiscally and socially conservative. Seventeen percent (17%) say they are both fiscally and socially moderate … Among Republicans, 47% are both fiscally and socially conservative.(Rasmussen Reports, November 24, 2007)

]]> By: Realist http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-45599 Realist Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:21:01 +0000 #comment-45599 Another canard is the "We didn't change Washington, Washington changed us." Oh, boo-hoo. The only people who were obssessing about Abramoff or Stevens were the lefty bloggers. You saw minimal MSM coverage of that stuff, and once the juicy bits were exhausted, you never heard about it again. Now look at the ethics problems the Dems are having just appointing a cabinet. Face it people, people assume all politicians are corrupt anyone. When Karl Rove blamed our losses on ethics violations he was just covering his own rear end over having blown 12 years of GOP domination of government. Another canard is the “We didn’t change Washington, Washington changed us.” Oh, boo-hoo. The only people who were obssessing about Abramoff or Stevens were the lefty bloggers. You saw minimal MSM coverage of that stuff, and once the juicy bits were exhausted, you never heard about it again. Now look at the ethics problems the Dems are having just appointing a cabinet. Face it people, people assume all politicians are corrupt anyone. When Karl Rove blamed our losses on ethics violations he was just covering his own rear end over having blown 12 years of GOP domination of government.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-41937 sinz54 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:06:32 +0000 #comment-41937 jjv: Times are changing. I'm not sure Jesse Helms could win again today. This is not 1975 anymore. Look at all the changes in the electorate. North Carolina is now a major high-tech center, with the Research Triangle bringing in college educated and cosmopolitan folks of all races. The entire Union is becoming multicultural, with a huge influx of Hispanics and Asians. Single moms are now a large and fast-growing voting bloc. And right now, the GOP isn't appealing to Hispanics or single moms. If the GOP goes even further to the right, restricting even *legal* immigration as Mark Krikorian has advocated, passing a Human Life Amendment which would make many suburban moms guilty of violating the Constitution, it's going to be even less appealing to these groups. jjv: Times are changing. I’m not sure Jesse Helms could win again today. This is not 1975 anymore. Look at all the changes in the electorate. North Carolina is now a major high-tech center, with the Research Triangle bringing in college educated and cosmopolitan folks of all races. The entire Union is becoming multicultural, with a huge influx of Hispanics and Asians. Single moms are now a large and fast-growing voting bloc. And right now, the GOP isn’t appealing to Hispanics or single moms. If the GOP goes even further to the right, restricting even *legal* immigration as Mark Krikorian has advocated, passing a Human Life Amendment which would make many suburban moms guilty of violating the Constitution, it’s going to be even less appealing to these groups.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-38811 sinz54 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:01:40 +0000 #comment-38811 The claim "We just weren't conservative enough" is a corollary to the Karl Rove theory that elections are won by turning out your base to vote in large numbers. And that the 2006 and 2008 elections were lost because the GOP base stayed home, disgusted with the "moderation" of the GOP candidates. THIS IS DEAD WRONG. The 2006 and 2008 exit polls confirm that the loyal Republicans did turn out, just slightly less than in 2004. The GOP lost because of a massive defection of the Independent voters, who broke overwhelmingly for the Dems. Independent voters are now a larger voting bloc than either the GOP base or the Dem base. If the Independents break for the Dems, the GOP will lose even if its entire base votes. If the GOP is to win nationally again, it has to win back enough Independent voters so that they split roughly 50-50 again, as Karl Rove had assumed. The claim “We just weren’t conservative enough” is a corollary to the Karl Rove theory that elections are won by turning out your base to vote in large numbers. And that the 2006 and 2008 elections were lost because the GOP base stayed home, disgusted with the “moderation” of the GOP candidates. THIS IS DEAD WRONG. The 2006 and 2008 exit polls confirm that the loyal Republicans did turn out, just slightly less than in 2004. The GOP lost because of a massive defection of the Independent voters, who broke overwhelmingly for the Dems. Independent voters are now a larger voting bloc than either the GOP base or the Dem base. If the Independents break for the Dems, the GOP will lose even if its entire base votes. If the GOP is to win nationally again, it has to win back enough Independent voters so that they split roughly 50-50 again, as Karl Rove had assumed.

]]> By: jjv http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-45146 jjv Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:25:54 +0000 #comment-45146 This is a good question. In 2008 maybe nothing with an R in front of it could win. I don't think it is how conservative on litmus issues you are but how well can you explain them and can you organize a campaign? Elizabeth Dole lost where Jesse Helms would have won as he always did despite much greater opposition. She is a perfect representation of "establishment Republicanism" that loses where it should win. This is a good question. In 2008 maybe nothing with an R in front of it could win. I don’t think it is how conservative on litmus issues you are but how well can you explain them and can you organize a campaign? Elizabeth Dole lost where Jesse Helms would have won as he always did despite much greater opposition. She is a perfect representation of “establishment Republicanism” that loses where it should win.

]]> By: oenolicious http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-54909 oenolicious Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:43:23 +0000 #comment-54909 Chekote- When was the GOP sent to eliminate the Department of Education? Reagan always talked about it and nothing ever happened. Chekote- When was the GOP sent to eliminate the Department of Education? Reagan always talked about it and nothing ever happened.

]]> By: Chekote http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-51150 Chekote Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:47:23 +0000 #comment-51150 "Remember, we held Congress until 2006. So whatever proposals Secretary Snow would have favored were not enacted by us!)" Have you heard of the 60 votes requirement? When did the GOP have 60 Senate seats? No wonder the GOP blew its turn at the wheel. I mean if this site is an example of the conservative illuminati in DC! “Remember, we held Congress until 2006. So whatever proposals Secretary Snow would have favored were not enacted by us!)” Have you heard of the 60 votes requirement? When did the GOP have 60 Senate seats? No wonder the GOP blew its turn at the wheel. I mean if this site is an example of the conservative illuminati in DC!

]]> By: Chekote http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-47299 Chekote Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:25:21 +0000 #comment-47299 When conservatives said that the GOP wasn't conservative enough, they mean that there was too much spending and too much expansion of the federal government. The GOP was sent to DC to eliminate the Department of Education not make it bigger. How hard is this to understand? When conservatives said that the GOP wasn’t conservative enough, they mean that there was too much spending and too much expansion of the federal government. The GOP was sent to DC to eliminate the Department of Education not make it bigger. How hard is this to understand?

]]> By: choccity2005 http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-43134 choccity2005 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:14:00 +0000 #comment-43134 Let me tell you the only way to regain the house,senate and presidency is to go the Glenn beck way.Critize the dems when the mess up and critize your PARTY WORSE when they do.40 % of repubs voted for the 410 billion dollar earmark bill.Where is rush's OUTRAGE!!Why don't he want those repubs to fail.If Rush says he wants socialism to fail,Then he should of said he wanted bush to fail...Bush grew the government first before obama,bush signed the tarp 1,AIG bailouts,medicare....SO WHY DID HE NOT SAY HE WANTED BUSH TO FAIL!!!RUSH has zero SOCIAL CHARACTER....The man can't keep a marriage,can't keep his weight down,isn't even close to a christian.WE must marginalize this guy.WHy you ASK?Abortion is now a 50/50 issue with americans...30 years ago it was a 80/30 opposed,Blacks are voting 90 percent democratic,hispanics just voted 50 percent for obama.Women are now voting 50 percent for democrats.Republicans are getting killed politically in the North east and midwest.Sooner or later if rush is not silenced meaning moderates turn on him like michael smirconish did......there will be two partys.Liberals and BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS.Remeber jd hayworth,santorum,george allen.....GONE!!Go see who are in thier seats.....conservative democrats like jim webb and bob casey(a pro life democrat).They have figured out how to defeat conservatism....put up thier own.Yet we are destroying liberal republicans like swarzenegger,guliani,collins,spector.Did any democrat attack the ones that did not vote for obama's bill?Hollywood,the MSM,and the blogs are mostly LEFT.The top 3 conservative talk show hosts are limbaugh,hannity and savage.The left loves this....cause it's so easy to paint us as The rich white men party.While the speaker of the house is a woman,the president is black,head of Homeland security is a woman,secretary of state a woman,health and human services a woman now,Mayor of los angelos hispanic democrat who is going to run for governor.Do you see what the DEMS are doing.....they have been doing it for years now....The party of WOMEN,BLACKS,HISPANICS,IDEAS,The POOR,SCIENCE VS the PARTY of RICH OLD WHITE MEN stuck in the past.MICHAEL STEELE/sarah palin and JINDAL ARE OUR ONLY HOPE.......YOU LET RUSH WIN and WE ARE OVER!!! Let me tell you the only way to regain the house,senate and presidency is to go the Glenn beck way.Critize the dems when the mess up and critize your PARTY WORSE when they do.40 % of repubs voted for the 410 billion dollar earmark bill.Where is rush’s OUTRAGE!!Why don’t he want those repubs to fail.If Rush says he wants socialism to fail,Then he should of said he wanted bush to fail…Bush grew the government first before obama,bush signed the tarp 1,AIG bailouts,medicare….SO WHY DID HE NOT SAY HE WANTED BUSH TO FAIL!!!RUSH has zero SOCIAL CHARACTER….The man can’t keep a marriage,can’t keep his weight down,isn’t even close to a christian.WE must marginalize this guy.WHy you ASK?Abortion is now a 50/50 issue with americans…30 years ago it was a 80/30 opposed,Blacks are voting 90 percent democratic,hispanics just voted 50 percent for obama.Women are now voting 50 percent for democrats.Republicans are getting killed politically in the North east and midwest.Sooner or later if rush is not silenced meaning moderates turn on him like michael smirconish did……there will be two partys.Liberals and BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS.Remeber jd hayworth,santorum,george allen…..GONE!!Go see who are in thier seats…..conservative democrats like jim webb and bob casey(a pro life democrat).They have figured out how to defeat conservatism….put up thier own.Yet we are destroying liberal republicans like swarzenegger,guliani,collins,spector.Did any democrat attack the ones that did not vote for obama’s bill?Hollywood,the MSM,and the blogs are mostly LEFT.The top 3 conservative talk show hosts are limbaugh,hannity and savage.The left loves this….cause it’s so easy to paint us as The rich white men party.While the speaker of the house is a woman,the president is black,head of Homeland security is a woman,secretary of state a woman,health and human services a woman now,Mayor of los angelos hispanic democrat who is going to run for governor.Do you see what the DEMS are doing…..they have been doing it for years now….The party of WOMEN,BLACKS,HISPANICS,IDEAS,The POOR,SCIENCE VS the PARTY of RICH OLD WHITE MEN stuck in the past.MICHAEL STEELE/sarah palin and JINDAL ARE OUR ONLY HOPE…….YOU LET RUSH WIN and WE ARE OVER!!!

]]> By: Go Dog Go! http://www.frumforum.com/not-conservative-enough-an-inquiry/comment-page-1#comment-52838 Go Dog Go! Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:00:29 +0000 #comment-52838 The CPAC argument is, and will continue to be, the fatal flaw in conservatism. Whether anyone likes it or not, the problems of our country happened on the GOP watch and they are, at least in perception, the responsibility of a party that continues to deny responsibility. To continue with this denial and embrace Limbaugh as the party's ideological leader will do nothing but create a long and prosperous Democratic dynasty. If Republicans want to see power again, the party must move to the center, starting by abandoning this silly "we want Obama to fail" nonsense. To openly call for the failure of our federal government only proves to the world how out of touch the party is and that conservatives are wholly unfit to lead. The CPAC argument is, and will continue to be, the fatal flaw in conservatism. Whether anyone likes it or not, the problems of our country happened on the GOP watch and they are, at least in perception, the responsibility of a party that continues to deny responsibility. To continue with this denial and embrace Limbaugh as the party’s ideological leader will do nothing but create a long and prosperous Democratic dynasty.

If Republicans want to see power again, the party must move to the center, starting by abandoning this silly “we want Obama to fail” nonsense. To openly call for the failure of our federal government only proves to the world how out of touch the party is and that conservatives are wholly unfit to lead.

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