Norway and the Global War on Terror

July 23rd, 2011 at 9:49 am David Frum | 147 Comments |

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The terrible crime in Norway appears confirmed as the vicious work of a Norwegian possessed by some form of far-right politics. Thus far, viagra the killer is reported to have acted alone, although it cannot be excluded that he belong to some small crazed local group.

As we grieve for the heart-rending losses of the families and people of Norway, it seems this crime was not the work of an international Islamist terror network.

That fact surprised many media commentators, who immediately guessed that Islamists must be to blame.

Those guesses proved wrong, not because Islamists have ceased to wish harm to the West, but because Islamists have lost almost all their ability to coordinate large-scale attacks upon Western countries.

Individuals may still grab weapons and start shooting, as happened for example at Fort Hood in November 2009. The self-radicalization of young Muslims must remain a serious security concern.

Radical Islamist plotting, however, has been all but vanquished in the Western world. The last mass-casualty Islamic terror plots carried out in Europe was the London subway attack of 2005. We have had no international terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11.

Better police and intelligence work has intensified the difficulties facing would-be jihadists in the West. They cannot safely communicate with each other. If foreign, they find it harder to enter Western countries. If home-grown, they are are better monitored. Rising success in foiling plots deters radicals from attempting new plots.

Meanwhile, violent extremism continues to lose its appeal to young Muslims  – even as (ominously) political extremism continues to rise in Pakistan and Egypt.

The ideology of extremist Islam continues to challenge the West both from within and without. But the threat of Islamist terrorism has successfully been contained and suppressed. This is what victory in the war on terror looks like: a continuum, not an event.

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147 Comments so far ↓

  • StarSpangledSpanner

    Ballon Juice summed what is happening pretty well.

    “Can we start honestly talking about what the west is facing now from the far right?

    You’ve got teatards threatening to destroy the American economy, Fox Newsers hacking and blackmailing everyone in sight in the UK for who knows how long, and now it looks like a crazy right-wing terrorist (and apparent Pam Geller fan) killed nearly 100 people in Norway yesterday.

    To top it all off, we’re told over and over again that both sides do it.

    I’m not advocating that we start dropping freedom bombs or torturing people, far from it. But the rising tide of home-grown right-wing extremism in the west scares me a lot more than anything going on in the Middle East.”

  • cporet

    Nevertheless the first instinct is to go Islamist. Bill Hemmer said that someone linked to the explosion had “links” to Al Qaeda. Of Course he does, in the Fox world any explosion is Islamist terrorism until it’s not. Besides, don’t the Tea Partiers always remind us that the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with blood? Watch what you sow.

    • abj

      What is the Tea Party “sowing” exactly? What on earth does this have to do with a terrorist attack in Norway?

  • Nanotek

    (1) cporet + 1
    and, as it wanes, violent Western conservatism extremism grows seemingly

    (2) as an aside, thanks FF for your new format … I realize DF is writing more frequently now but for the first time, when I return to FF, there are always new stories and opinions to consider … no longer stale stories whose only freshness to be found is in the comments … this reminds me of the early Huffington Post, with new posts continually … great job with the new dynamic and momentum (even if I am a flaming, secular humanist liberal, I appreciate all the new hard work and the challenges to my assumptions (which allows me to learn anew))

  • lnexus01


    Here’s something that distresses me:

    An individual (?) promoting hatred of the western kind picks up explosives and guns and kills nearly 100 human beings in Norway. You decide to write about this and manage a 9 paragraph item. In eight of the nine paragraphs, the possible implications of this man’s actions disappear (never mind the implications of his “political” bent), and instead we find references to “Muslims”, “jihadists”, “Islamists”, “young muslims”, “islamic”, “Pakistan”, “Egypt”, etc.

    Perhaps you’d care to comment.

  • nhthinker

    Anders Behring Breivik was extreme right wing: called himself a martyr idealogue that needed to be dishonest when he represented his opinions to less extreme right wing or moderate people.

    “To sums up the Vienna school of thought:
    - Cultural Conservatism (anti-multiculturalism)
    - Against Islamization
    - Anti-racist
    - Anti-authoritarian (resistance to all authoritarian ideologies of hate)
    - Pro-Israel/forsvarer of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries
    - Defender of the cultural aspects of Christianity
    - To reveal the Eurabia project and the Frankfurt School (ny-marxisme/kulturmarxisme/multikulturalisme)
    - Is not an economic policy and can collect everything from socialists to capitalists”

    The typical left wing peanut gallery will say this proves the government need to control all the guns and that it also proves that thinking Islamic terrorism is more significant than right wing terrorism is false propaganda by people like Frum. They will also say that Tea Party thinking breeds people like Anders Behring Breivik. This is the same peanut gallery that falsely claimed that Jared Laughner was right wing and also claimed we should be sympathetic to people that rise to power through befriending and cohorting with terrorists like Bill Ayers.

    • StarSpangledSpanner

      So this guy is not a RW terrorist that was influenced by Pam Geller and her islamaphobic teahadist nonsense then.

      He was just a misunderstood kitten.

      • nhthinker

        Your rhetorical question/assertions are just nonsense. If you have any problems with my assertions, then attack them straight up instead of your weak strawman attacks.

        AFAIK, Pam Geller never indicated using terrorism against people that were not as anti-Islamic as she is was an appropriate course of action. BTW, I’m not a Geller fan. Are you trying to suggest that everyone that is concerned with radical Islam and are pro-Irsael are terrorists in waiting? Does that mean you paint Frum, Gellar and Brevik with the same broad propaganda brush? I’ve heard Anders likes the same flavor of ice cream as Mitt Romney- Is Romney a terrorist too?

        • StarSpangledSpanner

          OK here are my questions to you.

          Is this guy a Right Wing terrorist?

          Was he influenced by the Islamaphobic nonsense Pam Geller spews as he was a fan and wrote regularly on her website?

          Given all the things that are going on recently, The Murdoch phone hacking, the GOP holding the USA to ransom over the debt limit and this RW terrorist killing close to 100 people, is the Right still a main stream ideology or has it slipped so far right that it is now Fascist?

          Straightforward questions you can give straightforward answers to.

        • nhthinker

          “Is this guy a Right Wing terrorist?”

          Already answered in my first post. Anders and Bill Ayers are politically motivated terrorists.

          “Was he influenced by the Islamaphobic nonsense Pam Geller spews as he was a fan and wrote regularly on her website?”

          INFLUENCED? I don’t know. Did they both share Islamaphobic POVs- sure. Does that make Geller a terrorist inspirer or influencer? Where is YOUR evidence?
          To me, it’s relatively clear from his writings that Anders anti-Islamic tendencies started with his own experiences in Norway: not what he read on Geller’s site.

          “Given all the things that are going on recently, The Murdoch phone hacking, the GOP holding the USA to ransom over the debt limit and this RW terrorist killing close to 100 people, is the Right still a main stream ideology or has it slipped so far right that it is now Fascist?”

          “the Right?” The Right is not an entity- Only chicken-little conspiracy nuts make connections between British press “journalism” techniques and a whacked out terrorist. Thanks for exposing yourself as such.

        • WaStateUrbanGOPer


          Go on over to Little Green Footballs, and you will find a post from today by Charles Johnson in which he publishes an e-mail from one of his Norwegian readers who in turn provides a link to a blog post by Breivek in which he lavishly praises Pamela Gellar.

          Case closed.

        • nhthinker

          Praising someone and equating that to being evidence that the the person being praised influenced an act of terrorism is a major stretch… If you have a set of passages that makes that connection, then reference it here in a url… I’m not going to go chasing down nebulous claims.

          It’s you guys that are making the accusation that Geller played a role in getting Anders to the point of committing a terrorist act. Present your best evidence.

        • dafyd

          I just went on (I always do) and he posted a link on pamela gellar site. Those people will never accept the turth. They will see it the way they want to see it.
          Just like Nhthinker.

        • nhthinker

          What supposed truth am I not accepting?
          Anders praised Geller? I accept that. So what?

          “It’s you guys that are making the accusation that Geller played a role in getting Anders to the point of committing a terrorist act. Present your best evidence.”

          Other than a posting with praise for Geller, I did not see any evidence on the LGF site.
          Are you asserting that this is a necessary “truth” : ” Geller played a role in getting Anders to the point of committing a terrorist act”?

          Put up or shut up!

    • LauraNo

      Jared Loughner WAS rightwing.

      • nhthinker

        Rightwing?… Please provide your evidence or a URL that proves it.

        • nhthinker

          Still waiting for that URL… are you going to provide it???

        • Redrabbit

          Would it have been acceptable to say “Loughner was right wing and Bill Ayers was left wing”?

        • nhthinker

          No! Of course not!

          Loughner’s friends said he was not associated with any political groups and did not listen to RW organizations on the radio, TV or anywhere else.

          Loughner was not political- he was mentally disturbed- including praising Karl Marx.

          Ayers is a left wing political animal and an unrepentant terrorist.

  • tommybones

    Frum makes one of the more typical mistakes, which is equating a lack of another 9/11-type Islamist attack as proof that the “War on Terror” is working. Of course, between the first WTC attack and the 2nd, one could have made the same argument.

    My theory? There have been no 9/11-type attacks on U.S. soil since the day I changed my brand of toothpaste. Coincidence?

  • LauraNo

    “This is what victory in the war on terror looks like: a continuum, not an event.”
    Great. So when does the war on rightwing extremism begin?

    • dante

      Great. So when does the war on patriotism begin?

      Fixed that for you…..

      • nhthinker

        “Live Free or Die” is viewed by left wing peanut gallery as terrorist inspiring rhetoric and not patriotic speech.

        I love to rub NH leftists noses in “Live Free or Die” adorning their typically Japanese cars.

        • Nanotek

          “I love to rub NH leftists noses in “Live Free or Die” adorning their typically Japanese cars.”

          do you ever find it uncomfortable to think in stereotypes?

          “In 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the case of Wooley v. Maynard, 430 U.S. 705, that the State of New Hampshire could not prosecute motorists who chose to hide part or all of the motto. That ruling came about because George Maynard, a Jehovah’s Witness, covered up ‘or die’ from his plate.”

        • nhthinker

          So you would have us believe that you feel uncomfortable using left, right, conservative, liberal labels on a clearly political web site? Do you want me to send you a set of links to your posting here that you use them quite casually?

          Most superficial arguments presented here by many posters here are clearly political talking points with no interest in posting reasonable references to anything.

          Thanks for the wiki reference… Most persons on the left that view “Live Free or Die” as offensive are too concerned about what their neighbors would think to seriously consider covering their plates.

        • Nanotek

          “Thanks for the wiki reference… Most persons on the left that view “Live Free or Die” as offensive are too concerned about what their neighbors would think to seriously consider covering their plates.”

          you’re welcome … did you miss the point that “live free or die” NH prosecuted religious people who wanted to live free by covering the “or die” portion?

          quote back anything you want … did you ever find Obama’s real birth certificate?

        • nhthinker

          I already commented on the legal ability to cover portions of “Live Free or Die” and described the thinking of leftists annoyed by the motto. I’m all for the freedom to cover portions of the motto- It is very much in keeping with other rulings to the freedom to cover, burn or destroy personal property that are patriotic symbols.

          Nanotek // Jan 8, 2011 at 4:31 pm

          [Deep South Populist] : “The shooter is responsible for this crime. No one else.”

          that is exactly the language that tries to excuse or minimize calls for violence that winks and nods at would-be killers. If your idea has merit, Deep Populist South, Osama bin Laden is not responsible for 9/11 — only those who flew the planes into the towers and the Pentagon
          You were 100% wrong on the last terrorist you were sure about. Have you apologized for your flagrant malicious stereotyping accusation yet?

          I never claimed Obama didn’t have a Birth Certificate. It is still not clear that Obama’s father filed the legal paperwork for a non-US citizen that was not legally married to be listed as the father on a HI CoLB. If he had done so, it would have likely been fraudulent.

        • Nanotek

          “Most persons on the left that view “Live Free or Die” as offensive are too concerned about what their neighbors would think to seriously consider covering their plates.”

          how do you know that?

          what is your evidence?

      • StarSpangledSpanner

        So now it’s patriotic to blow shit up and shoot people. Good god save us from these people.

        • medinnus

          Next up – the Right Wing quoting Ben Franklin in relation to the American Revolution:

          “Treason in the first person – ‘our treason’ – is always legal. It is only in the third person – ‘their treason’ that it illegal.”

        • nhthinker

          The leftist response to any calamity is more government. Where is the left’s clarion call for more gun control to prevent terrorism? Are you saving it?

          Improper diet, lack of exercise and smoking kill several thousand times more Americans than terrorism does.

        • StarSpangledSpanner

          So terrorism is no longer an issue ! Maybe you will stop with the islamaphobia nonsense now .

      • greg_barton

        So you’re saying that when Breivik was shooting teens in the face with a shotgun he was being a patriot?

      • StarSpangledSpanner

        So Dante you have joined Rep King as a Conservative terrorist supporter.

  • Banty

    What is this – the killer isn’t connected to any global Jihadist movement, but you just have to write about it anyway?

    I think the lessons to be learned are:

    1. Firstly, do not jump to conclusions. This turned out to be Norway’s Oklahoma City, complete with the rife speculation about Islamic terrorism before McVeigh was arrested.

    2. Secondly, there are dangerous extreme right wing groups in Europe, and here. This is what needs to be written about! NOT “well, this turned out not to be ‘them’, but let’s talk about ‘them’ anyway.

    • greg_barton

      Note the skillful use of propaganda wordplay, from the first paragraph:

      “The terrible crime in Norway appears confirmed as the vicious work of a Norwegian possessed by some form of far-right politics. Thus far, the killer is reported to have acted alone, although it cannot be excluded that he belong to some small crazed local group.”

      Mushy language for the element you want to defend:

      some form of far-right politics
      small crazed local group

      And, of course, the word “terrorist” is nowhere to be found.

      Then, note that each paragraph, and practically every sentence of the remaining piece includes the words Islam, Muslim, or jihad. Simple repetition is used to put the idea you want into the reader’s mind.

  • Bagok

    “Better police and intelligence work has intensified the difficulties facing would-be jihadists in the West”

    Exactly David. Preventing terrorism is a police action, not a military one. It’s very encouraging to see a neocon like yourself come to that conclusion.

  • armstp

    Another disgusting example of morons in this country. I am watching Wolf Blitzer on CNN last night at about 7 pm and he and his guests were blaming this entirely on Isalmist Extremists. They were saying it was because of Norway’s involvement in Afghanistan and Libya and it re-printing of the offense mulsim cartoons.

    Right-wing extremist groups are responsible for considerably more violence and terrorism in Western countries, particularly in the U.S., than any muslim is.

    • nhthinker

      I’m against all terrorism. But look at the facts.
      How many Americans were killed by RW terrorists in the last ten years?
      Compare that to the number of Americans killed by Islamist terrorists…
      Islamists win hands down.

      Leftists have all the answers… Just ask them.

      • Houndentenor

        Reducing this to a numbers game is sick. Did the families of Okahoma City bombing victims suffer less than the families of 9/11 victims? Of course not. It’s disgusting to compare the two as if the number of victims measures the severity of the loss. If you were really against all forms of terrorism you’d find your own statement revolting.

        • nhthinker

          You meant to direct your affront to armstp that introduced the concept of comparison to determine the worst source of terrorism, right?

          “It’s disgusting to compare the two as if the number of victims measures the severity of the loss.”

          Disgusting? maybe. Necessary? Well, for any one mature, of course! Taking into account the number of victims is real and necessary. Only people that are unrealistically idealistic would not account for the number of victims when computing countermeasures to consider.

        • Redrabbit

          I can just imagine how nhthinker would be responding if this guy had been a left winger.

          All his hair splitting and equivocation would go right out the window and he would be the one demanding more government to solve the problem.

        • nhthinker

          Straw man argument with no evidence.

          Weak. Try arguing to what I write here… not what your vile imagination can conjure about what I would do or say in different circumstances. You suck at knowing me.

      • Raskolnik

        Okay now, by that metric (body count), would you be willing to examine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Are you capable of understanding the underlying psychosocial reasons for violent Islamism? Or violent radicalism of any type?

        • nhthinker

          “Raskolnik // Jul 23, 2011 at 1:44 pm

          Okay now, by that metric (body count), would you be willing to examine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Are you capable of understanding the underlying psychosocial reasons for violent Islamism? Or violent radicalism of any type?

          What does any of that have to do with this thread?
          Are you going to propose, like TommyBones, that Osama Bin Laden was honest and George Bush was not?

          I think you have me confused with someone that is pro-Israel.

        • tommybones

          lol…. you seriously don’t want me to wipe the floor with you once again, do you?

      • armstp


        If you do not include 9-11 then in the U.S. there have been many many more killed by right wing extremists (many cops in fact). If you look at the number of terrorist acts, there have been many more actual acts in the U.S by right wing extremists than by muslims. It is not even close.

        Right-wing terrorism has been so bad in the U.S. that Homeland Security even had to write a report warning about it entitled: “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment

        Here are all the right-wing attacks in the U.S. in just the last ten years.

        March 1, 2001
        As part of an ongoing probe into a white supremacist group, federal and local law enforcement agents raid the Corbett, Ore., home of Fritz Springmeier, seizing equipment to grow marijuana and weapons and racist literature. They also find a binder notebook entitled “Army of God, Yahweh’s Warriors” that contains what officials call a list of targets, including a local federal building and the FBI’s Oregon offices. Springmeier, an associate of the anti-Semitic Christian Patriots Association, is eventually charged with setting off a diversionary bomb at an adult video store in Damascus, Ore., in 1997 as part of a bank robbery carried out by accomplice Forrest Bateman Jr. Another 2001 raid finds small amounts of bomb materials and marijuana in Bateman’s home. Eventually, Bateman pleads guilty to bank robbery and Springmeier is convicted of the same charges. Both are sentenced to nine years, and have release dates in 2011.

        April 19, 2001
        White supremacists Leo Felton and girlfriend Erica Chase are arrested following a foot chase that began when a police officer spotted them trying to pass counterfeit bills at a Boston donut shop. Investigators quickly learn Felton heads up a tiny group called Aryan Unit One, and that the couple, who had already obtained a timing device, planned to blow up black and Jewish landmarks and possibly assassinate black and Jewish leaders. They also learn another amazing fact: Felton, a self-described Aryan, is secretly biracial. Felton and Chase are eventually convicted of conspiracy, weapons violations and obstruction, and Felton is also convicted of bank robbery and other charges. Felton, who previously served 11 years for assaulting a black taxi driver, is sentenced to serve more than 21 years in federal prison, while his one-time sweetheart draws a lesser sentence and is released in 2007.

        October 14, 2001
        A North Carolina sheriff’s deputy pulls over Steve Anderson, a former “colonel” in the Kentucky Militia, on a routine traffic stop as he heads home to Kentucky from a white supremacist gathering in North Carolina. Anderson, who is an adherent of racist Christian Identity theology and has issued violent threats against officials for months via an illegal pirate radio station, pulls out a semi-automatic weapon and peppers the deputy’s car with bullets before driving his truck into the woods and disappearing for 13 months. Officials later find six pipe bombs in Anderson’s abandoned truck and 27 bombs and destructive devices in his home. In the end, Anderson apologizes for his actions and pleads guilty. He is sentenced on a variety of firearms charges to 15 years in federal prison.

        December 5, 2001
        Anti-abortion extremist Clayton Lee Wagner, who nine months earlier escaped from an Illinois jail while awaiting sentencing on weapons and carjacking charges, is arrested in Cincinnati, Ohio. Wagner’s odyssey began in September 1999, when he was stopped driving a stolen camper in Illinois and told police he was headed to Seattle to murder an abortion provider. He escaped in February 2001 and, while on the lam, mailed more than 550 hoax anthrax letters to abortion clinics and posted an Internet threat warning abortion clinic workers that “if you work for the murderous abortionist, I’m going to kill you.” Wagner is eventually sentenced to 30 years on the Illinois charges. In Ohio, he is sentenced to almost 20 years more, to be served consecutively, on various weapons and car theft charges related to his time on the run. In late 2003, he also is found guilty of 51 federal terrorism charges. He is scheduled to be released in 2046.

        December 11, 2001
        Jewish Defense League chairman Irving David Rubin and a follower, Earl Leslie Krugel, are arrested in California and charged with conspiring to bomb the offices of U.S. Rep. Darrel Issa (R-Calif.) and the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City. Authorities say a confidential informant taped meetings with the two in which the bombings were discussed and Krugel said the JDL needed “to do something to one of their filthy mosques.” Rubin later commits suicide in prison, officials say, just before he is to go on trial in 2002. Krugel pleads guilty to conspiracy in both plots, and testifies that Rubin conspired with him. Krugel dies in prison in 2005.

        January 4, 2002
        Neo-Nazi National Alliance member Michael Edward Smith is arrested after a car chase in Nashville, Tenn., that began when he was spotted sitting in a car with a semi-automatic rifle pointed at Sherith Israel Pre-School, run by a local synagogue. In Smith’s car, home and storage unit, officials find an arsenal that includes a .50-caliber rifle, 10 hand grenades, 13 pipe bombs, binary explosives, semi-automatic pistols, ammunition and an array of military manuals. They also find teenage porn on Smith’s computer and evidence that he carried out computer searches for Jewish schools and synagogues. In one of his E-mails, Smith wrote that Jews “perhaps” should be “stuffed head first into an oven.” Smith is sentenced to more than 10 years in prison, with an expected release date in 2011.

        February 8, 2002
        The leader of a militia-like group known as Project 7 and his girlfriend are arrested after an informant tells police the group is plotting to kill judges and law enforcement officers in order to kick off a revolution. David Burgert, who has a record for burglary and is already wanted for assaulting police officers, is found in the house of girlfriend Tracy Brockway along with an arsenal that includes pipe bombs and 25,000 rounds of ammunition. Also found are “intel sheets” with personal information about law enforcement officers, their spouses and children. Although officials are convinced the Project 7 plot was real, Burgert ultimately is convicted only of weapons charges and draws a seven-year sentence; he is to be released in 2010. Six others are also convicted of or plead guilty to weapons charges. Brockway gets a suspended sentence for harboring a fugitive, but is sent to prison for violating its terms. She is released in early 2008.

        July 19, 2002
        Acting on a tip, federal and local law enforcement agents arrest North Carolina Klan leader Charles Robert Barefoot Jr. for his role in an alleged plot to blow up the Johnson County Sheriff’s Office, the sheriff himself and the county jail. Officers find more than two dozen weapons in Barefoot’s home. They also find bombs and bomb components in the home of Barefoot’s son, Daniel Barefoot, who is charged that same day with the arson of a school bus and an empty barn. The elder Barefoot — who broke away from the National Knights of the KKK several months earlier to form his own harder-line group, the Nation’s Knights of the KKK — is charged with weapons violations and later sentenced to more than two years. In 2003, Barefoot’s wife and three men, including Barefoot Sr., are charged with the murder of a former Klan member. In 2007, a judge rules Barefoot Sr. mentally incompetent to stand trial for murder and commits him indefinitely to a mental hospital. Sharon Barefoot was released from prison in July 2009.

        August 22, 2002
        Tampa area podiatrist Robert J. Goldstein is arrested after police, called by Goldstein’s wife after he allegedly threatened to kill her, find more than 15 explosive devices in their home, along with materials to make at least 30 more. Also found are homemade C-4 plastic explosives, grenades and mines, a .50-caliber rifle, semi-automatic weapons, and a list of 50 Islamic worship centers in the area. The most significant discovery is a three-page plan detailing plans to “kill all ‘rags’” at the Islamic Society of Pinellas County. Eventually, two other local men are also charged in connection with the plot, and Goldstein’s wife is arrested for possessing illegal destructive devices. Goldstein pleads guilty to plotting to blow up the Islamic Society and is sentenced to more than 12 years in federal prison, with a release date in 2013. His wife was released in 2006.

        October 3, 2002
        Officials close in on long-time antigovernment extremist Larry Raugust at a rest stop in Idaho, arrest him and charge him with 16 counts of making and possessing destructive devices, including pipe bombs and pressure-detonated booby traps. He is accused of giving one explosive device to an undercover agent, and is also named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a plot with colleagues in the Idaho Mountain Boys militia to murder a federal judge and a police officer, and to break a friend out of jail. A deadbeat dad, Raugust is also accused of helping plant land mines on property belonging to a friend whose land was seized by authorities over unpaid taxes. He eventually pleads guilty to 15 counts of making bombs and is sentenced to federal prison. Raugust was released in early 2008.

        January 8, 2003
        Federal agents arrest Matt Hale, the national leader of the neo-Nazi World Church of the Creator (WCOTC), as he reports to a Chicago courthouse in an ongoing copyright case over the name of his group. Hale is charged with soliciting the murder of the federal judge in the case, Joan Humphrey Lefkow, who he has publicly vilified as someone bent on the destruction of his group. (Although Lefkow originally ruled in WCOTC’s favor, an appeals court found that the complaint brought by an identically named church in Oregon was legally justified, and Lefkow reversed herself accordingly.) In guarded language captured on tape recordings, Hale is heard agreeing that his security chief, an FBI informant, should kill Lefkow. Hale is found guilty and sentenced to serve 40 years in federal prison; he is not expected to be released until 2037.

        January 18, 2003
        James D. Brailey, a convicted felon who once was selected as “governor” of the state of Washington by the antigovernment Washington Jural Society, is arrested after a raid on his home turns up a machine gun, an assault rifle and several handguns. One informant tells the FBI that Brailey was plotting to assassinate Gov. Gary Locke, both because Locke was the state’s real governor and because he was Chinese-American. A second informant says that Brailey actually went on a “dry run” to Olympia, carrying several guns into the state Capitol building to test security. Eventually, Brailey pleads guilty to weapons charges and is sentenced to serve 15 months in prison. He is released in 2004.

        February 13, 2003
        Federal agents in Pennsylvania arrest David Wayne Hull, imperial wizard of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and an adherent of the anti-Semitic Christian Identity theology, alleging that Hull arranged to buy hand grenades to blow up abortion clinics. The FBI says Hull also illegally instructed followers on how to build pipe bombs. Hull, who published a newsletter in which he urged readers to write Oklahoma bomber Tim McVeigh “to tell this great man goodbye,” is found guilty of weapons violations and sentenced to 12 years in federal prison. He is to be released in 2012.

        April 3, 2003
        Federal agents arrest antigovernment extremist David Roland Hinkson in Idaho and charge him with trying to hire an assassin on two occasions in 2002 and 2003 to murder a federal judge, a prosecutor and an IRS agent involved in a tax case against him. Hinkson, a businessman who earned millions of dollars from his Water Oz dietary supplement company but refused to pay almost $1 million in federal taxes, is convicted in 2004 of 26 counts related to the tax case. In early 2005, a federal jury finds him guilty in the assassination plot as well. He is not expected to be released until 2040.

        April 10, 2003
        The FBI raids the Noonday, Texas, home of William Krar and storage facilities that Krar rented in the area, discovering an arsenal that includes more than 500,000 rounds of ammunition, 65 pipe bombs and remote-control briefcase bombs, and almost two pounds of deadly sodium cyanide. Also found are components to convert the cyanide into a bomb capable of killing thousands, along with white supremacist and antigovernment material. Investigators soon learn Krar was stopped earlier in 2003 by police in Tennessee, who found several weapons and coded documents in his car that seemed to detail a plot. But Krar refuses to cooperate, and details of that alleged plan are never learned. He pleads guilty to possession of a chemical weapon and is sentenced to more than 11 years in prison, where he dies.

        June 4, 2003
        Federal agents in California announce that former accountant John Noster, in prison since November 2002 for car theft, is under investigation for plotting a major terrorist attack. Noster was first arrested as part of a car theft ring investigation, but officials who found incendiary devices in his stolen camper continued to probe his activities. Eventually, they find in various storage facilities three pipe bombs, six barrels of jet fuel, five assault weapons, cannon fuse, a large amount of ammunition and $188,000 in cash. Law enforcement officials, who describe Noster as an “antigovernment extremist,” allege at a press conference that he “was definitely planning” on an attack but do not elaborate. In addition to prison time in that case, Noster draws another five years in 2009, after pleading guilty to two weapons charges.

        October 10, 2003
        Police arrest Norman Somerville after finding a huge weapons cache on his property in northern Michigan that includes six machine guns, a powerful anti-aircraft gun, thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of pounds of gunpowder, and an underground bunker. They also find two vehicles Somerville calls his “war wagons,” and on which prosecutors later say he planned to mount machine guns as part of a plan to stage an auto accident and then massacre arriving police. Officials describe Somerville as an antigovernment extremist enraged over the death of Scott Woodring, a Michigan Militia member killed by police a week after Woodring shot and killed a state trooper during a standoff. Somerville eventually pleads guilty to weapons charges and is sentenced to six years in prison. He is scheduled to be released in late 2009.

        April 1, 2004
        Neo-Nazi Skinhead Sean Gillespie videotapes himself as he firebombs Temple B’nai Israel, an Oklahoma City synagogue, as part of a film he is preparing to inspire other racists to violent revolution. In it, Gillespie boasts that instead of merely pronouncing the white-supremacist “14 Words” slogan (“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children”), he will carry out 14 violent attacks. A former member of the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations, Gillespie is found guilty of the attack and later sentenced to 39 years in federal prison, with an expected release date of 2038.

        May 24, 2004
        During the attempted robbery of a Tulsa bank by Wade and Christopher Lay, a father-and-son pair of political extremists, security guard Kenneth Anderson is shot to death. Both robbers are wounded, and are arrested a short time after fleeing the bank. At trial, Wade Lay testifies that he and his son acted “for the good of the American people” and in an effort to “preserve liberty.” Other evidence shows the pair hoped to get money to pay for weapons that they intended to use to kill Texas officials who they believed were responsible for the deadly 1993 standoff between the authorities and religious cultists in Waco. In the end, Wade Lay is sentenced to death for first-degree murder, while his son gets 25 years for armed robbery.

        October 13, 2004
        Ivan Duane Braden, a former National Guardsman discharged from an Iraq-bound unit after superiors noted signs of instability, is arrested after checking into a mental health facility and telling counselors about plans to blow up a synagogue and a National Guard armory in Tennessee. The FBI reports that Braden told agents that he planned to go to a synagogue wearing a trench coat stuffed with explosives and get himself “as close to children and the rabbi as possible,” a plan Braden also outlined in notes found in his home. In addition, he intended to take and kill hostages at the Lenoir City Armory, before blowing the armory up. Eventually, Braden, who also possessed neo-Nazi literature and reportedly hated blacks and Jews from an early age, pleads guilty to conspiring to blow up the armory. He is sentenced to prison, where his release is expected in 2017.

        October 25, 2004
        FBI agents in Tennessee arrest farmhand Demetrius “Van” Crocker after he tried to purchase ingredients for deadly sarin nerve gas and C-4 plastic explosives from an undercover agent. The FBI reports that Crocker, who local officials say was involved in a white supremacist group in the 1980s, tells the agent that he admires Hitler and hates Jews and the government. He also says “it would be a good thing if somebody could detonate some sort of weapon of mass destruction on Washington, D.C.” Crocker is convicted of trying to get explosives to destroy a building and imprisoned until an expected release in 2030.

        May 20, 2005
        Officials in New Jersey arrest two men they say asked a police informant to build them a bomb. Craig Orler, who has a history of burglary arrests, and Gabriel Carafa, said to be a leader of the neo-Nazi World Church of the Creator and a member of a racist Skinhead group called The Hated, are charged with illegally selling 11 guns to police informants. Carafa gave one informant 60 pounds of urea to use in building him a bomb, but never said what the bomb was for. Police say they moved in before the alleged bombing plot developed further because they were concerned about the pair’s activities. They taped Orler saying in a phone call that he was seeking people in Europe to help him go underground. Orler is sentenced to more than 10 years in prison, while Carafa draws seven.

        June 10, 2005
        Daniel J. Schertz, a former member of the North Georgia White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, is indicted in Chattanooga, Tenn., on federal weapons charges for allegedly making seven pipe bombs and selling them to an undercover informant with the idea that they would be used to murder Mexican and Haitian immigrant workers. The informant says Schertz demonstrated how to attach the pipe bombs to cars, then sold him bombs that Schertz expected to be used against a group of Haitians and, separately, Mexican workers on a bus headed to work in Florida. Schertz eventually pleads guilty to six charges — including teaching how to make an explosive device; making, possessing and transferring destructive devices; and possessing a pistol with armor-piercing bullets — and is sentenced to 14 years in prison. He is to be released in 2017.

        March 19, 2006
        U.S. Treasury agents in Utah arrest David J. D’Addabbo for allegedly threatening Internal Revenue Service employees with “death by firing squad” if they continued to try to collect taxes from him and his wife. D’Addabbo, who was reportedly carrying a Glock pistol, 40 rounds of ammunition and a switchblade knife when he was seized leaving a church service, allegedly wrote to the U.S. Tax Court that anyone attempting to collect taxes would be tried by a “jury of common people. You then could be found guilty of treason and immediately taken to a firing squad.” In August D’Addabbo pleads guilty to one charge of threatening a government agent in exchange for the dismissal of three other charges of threatening IRS agents. He is sentenced to time served and released the same year as his arrest.

        April 26, 2007
        Five members of the Alabama Free Militia are arrested in north Alabama in a raid by federal and state law enforcement officers that uncovers a cache of 130 homemade hand grenades, an improvised grenade launcher, a Sten Mark submachine gun, a silencer, 2,500 rounds of ammunition and almost 100 marijuana plants. Raymond Kirk Dillard, the founder and “commander” of the group, pleads guilty to criminal conspiracy, illegally making and possessing destructive devices and being a felon in possession of a firearm. Other members of the group — Bonnell “Buster” Hughes, James Ray McElroy, Adam Lynn Cunningham and Randall Garrett — also plead guilty to related charges. Although Dillard, who complained about the collapse of the American economy, terrorist attacks and Mexicans taking over the country, reportedly told his troops to open fire on federal agents if ever confronted, no shots are fired during the April raid, and the “commander” even points out booby-trap tripwires on his property to investigators. Dillard and Garrett draw the harshest sentences, with releases scheduled for 2012 and 2018, respectively.

        June 8, 2008
        Six people, most of them tied to the militia movement, are arrested in rural north-central Pennsylvania after officials find stockpiles of assault rifles, improvised explosives and homemade weapons, at least some of them apparently intended for terrorist attacks on U.S. officials. Agents find 16 homemade bombs during a search of the residence of Pennsylvania Citizens Militia recruiter Bradley T. Kahle, who allegedly tells authorities that he intended to shoot black people from a rooftop in Pittsburgh and also predicts civil war if Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton are elected president. A raid on the property of Morgan Jones results in the seizure of 73 weapons, including a homemade flame thrower, a machine that supposedly shot bolts of electricity, and an improvised cannon. Also arrested and charged with weapons violations are Marvin E. Hall, his girlfriend Melissa Huet and Perry Landis. Landis, who is to be sentenced in late 2009, allegedly tells undercover agents he wanted to kill Gov. Ed Rendell. Hall is sentenced to more than two years.

        August 24, 2008
        White supremacists Shawn Robert Adolf, Tharin Robert Gartrell and Nathan D. Johnson are arrested in Denver during the Democratic National Convention on weapons charges and for possession of amphetamines. Although police say they talked about assassinating presidential candidate Barack Obama, they are not charged in connection with that threat because officials see their talk as drug-fueled boasting. Police report the three had high-powered, scoped rifles, wigs, camouflage clothing and a bulletproof vest, along with the crystal methamphetamine. Gartrell is released from prison in June 2009, while Johnson is to be freed in 2010. Adolf, who was already wanted on other charges, draws a longer sentence.

        October 24, 2008
        Two white supremacists, Daniel Cowart and Paul Schlesselman, are arrested in Tennessee for allegedly plotting to assassinate Barack Obama and murder more than 100 black people. Officials say Schlesselman and Cowart, a probationary member of the racist skinhead group Supreme White Alliance, planned to kill 88 people, then behead another 14. (Both numbers are significant in white supremacist circles. H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so double 8s stand for HH, or “Heil Hitler.” The number 14 represents the “14 Words,” a popular racist saying.) The pair are indicted on charges that include threatening a presidential candidate, possessing a sawed-off shotgun, taking firearms across state lines to commit crimes, planning to rob a licensed gun dealer, damaging religious property, and using a firearm during the commission of a crime.

        December 9, 2008
        Police responding to a shooting at a home in Belfast, Maine, find James G. Cummings dead, allegedly killed by his wife after years of domestic abuse. They also find a cache of radioactive materials, which Cummings was apparently using to try to build a radioactive “dirty bomb,” along with literature on how to build such a deadly explosive. Police also discover a membership application filled out by Cummings for the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement. Friends say that Cummings had a collection of Nazi memorabilia. The authorities say Cummings was reportedly “very upset” by the election of Barack Obama.

        December 16, 2008
        Kody Ray Brittingham, a lance corporal in the U.S. Marine Corps, is arrested with four others on attempted robbery charges. A search of his barracks room at Camp Lejeune, N.C., allegedly turns up white supremacist materials and a journal written by Brittingham containing plans to kill Barack Obama. Brittingham is indicted for threatening the president-elect of the United States, a crime that carries a maximum penalty of five years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

        January 21, 2009
        On the day after Barack Obama is inaugurated as the nation’s first black president, Keith Luke of Brockton, Mass., is arrested after allegedly shooting three black immigrants from Cape Verde, killing two of them, as part of a racially motivated killing spree. The two murders are apparently only part of Luke’s plan to kill black, Latino and Jewish people. After being captured by police, he reportedly says he planned to go to an Orthodox synagogue near his home that night and “kill as many Jews as possible.” Police say Luke, a white man who apparently had no contact with white supremacists but spent the previous six months reading racist websites, told them he was “fighting for a dying race.” Luke also says he formed his racist views in large part after watching videos on Podblanc, a racist video-sharing website run by longtime white supremacist Craig Cobb. When he later appears in court for a hearing, Luke, charged with murder, kidnapping and aggravated rape, has etched a swastika into his own forehead, apparently using a jail razor.

        April 4, 2009
        Three Pittsburgh police officers — Paul Sciullo III, Stephen Mayhle and Eric Kelly — are fatally shot and a fourth, Timothy McManaway, is wounded after responding to a domestic dispute at the home of Richard Andrew Poplawski, who had posted his racist and anti-Semitic views on white supremacist websites. In one post, Poplawski talks about wanting a white supremacist tattoo. He also reportedly tells a friend that America is controlled by a cabal of Jews, that U.S. troops may soon be used against American citizens, and that he fears a ban on guns is coming. Poplawski later allegedly tells investigators that he fired extra bullets into the bodies of two of the officers “just to make sure they were dead” and says he “thought I got that one, too” when told that the fourth officer survived. More law enforcement officers are killed during the incident than in any other single act of violence by a domestic political extremist since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

        April 25, 2009
        Joshua Cartwright, a Florida National Guardsman, allegedly shoots to death two Okaloosa County, Fla., sheriff’s deputies — Burt Lopez and Warren “Skip” York — at a gun range as the officers attempt to arrest Cartwright on domestic violence charges. After fleeing the scene, Cartwright is fatally shot during a gun battle with pursuing officers. Cartwright’s wife later tells investigators that her husband was “severely disturbed” that Barack Obama has been elected president. He also reportedly believed the U.S. government was conspiring against him. The sheriff tells reporters that Cartwright had been interested in joining a militia group.

        May 31, 2009
        Scott Roeder, an anti-abortion extremist who was involved with the antigovernment “freemen” movement in the 1990s, allegedly shoots to death Kansas late-term abortion provider George Tiller as the doctor is serving as an usher in his Wichita church. Adherents of “freemen” ideology claim they are “sovereign citizens” not subject to federal and other laws, and often form their own “common law” courts and issue their own license plates. It was one of those homemade plates that led Topeka police to stop Roeder in April 1996, when a search of his trunk revealed a pound of gunpowder, a 9-volt battery wired to a switch, blasting caps and ammunition. A prosecutor in that case called Roeder a “substantial threat to public safety,” citing Roeder’s refusal to acknowledge the court’s authority. But his conviction in the 1996 case is ultimately overturned. In the more recent case, Roeder is charged with murder and could face up to life in prison if convicted.

        June 10, 2009
        Eighty-eight-year-old James von Brunn, a longtime neo-Nazi, walks up to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and allegedly shoots to death security guard Stephen Johns before he is himself shot and critically wounded by other officers. Von Brunn, who earlier served six years in connection with his 1981 attempt to kidnap the members of the Federal Reserve Board at the point of a sawed-off shotgun, has been active in the white supremacist movement for more than four decades. As early as the early 1970s, he worked at the Holocaust-denying Noontide Press, and in subsequent decades, he comes to know many of the key leaders of the radical right. A search of von Brunn’s car after the museum attack turns up a list of other apparent targets, including the White House, the Capitol, the National Cathedral and The Washington Post. A note allegedly left by von Brunn in his car reads: “You want my weapons; this is how you’ll get them … the Holocaust is a lie … Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America’s money. Jews control the mass media.” He is charged with murder.

        June 12, 2009
        Shawna Forde — the executive director of Minutemen American Defense (MAD), an anti-immigrant vigilante group that conducts “citizen patrols” on the Arizona-Mexico border — is charged with two counts of first-degree murder for her alleged role in the slayings of a Latino man and his 9-year-old daughter in Arivaca, Ariz. Forde allegedly orchestrated the May 30 home invasion because she believed the man was a narcotics trafficker and wanted to steal drugs and cash to fund her group. Authorities say the murders, including the killing of the child, were part of the plan. Also arrested and charged with murder are the alleged triggerman, MAD Operations Director Jason Eugene “Gunny” Bush, and Albert Robert Gaxiola, 42, a local member of MAD. Authorities say that Bush had ties to the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations in Idaho, and that Forde has spoken of recruiting its members.

        June 25, 2009
        Longtime white supremacist Dennis Mahon and his brother Daniel are indicted in Arizona in connection with a mail bomb sent in 2004 to a diversity office in Scottsdale that injured three people. Mahon, formerly tied to the neo-Nazi White Aryan Resistance (WAR) group, allegedly left a phone message at the office saying that “the White Aryan Resistance is growing in Scottsdale. There’s a few white people who are standing up.” In a related raid, agents search the Indiana home of Tom Metzger, founder of WAR, but he is not arrested. On the same day, white supremacist Robert Joos is arrested in rural Missouri, apparently because phone records show that Dennis Mahon’s first call after the mail bombing was to Joos’ cell phone. Joos is charged with being a felon in possession of firearms.

        Oct. 28, 2009
        Luqman Ameen Abdullah, identified by authorities as a member of a black Muslim group hoping to create an Islamic state within U.S. borders, is shot dead at a warehouse in Dearborn, Mich., after he fires at FBI agents trying to arrest him on conspiracy and weapons charges. The FBI says Abdulla encouraged violence against the United States, adding that 10 other group members are being sought.

        Feb. 18, 2010
        Joseph Andrew Stack, who had earlier attended meetings of radical anti-tax groups in California, sets fire to his own house and then flies his single-engine plane into an Austin, Texas, building housing IRS offices. Stack and an IRS manager are killed, and 13 others are injured. Stack leaves a long online rant about the IRS and the tax code, politicians and corporations.

        March 25, 2010
        A man later identified as Brody James Whitaker opens fire on two Florida state troopers during a routine traffic stop on I-75 in Sumter County. Whitaker flees, crashing his vehicle and continuing on foot. He is arrested two weeks later in Connecticut, where he challenges the authority of a judge and declares himself a “sovereign,” not American, citizen. Sovereigns typically believe that police have no right to regulate road travel. Whitaker is later extradited to Florida to face charges of assaulting and fleeing from a police officer.

        March 27-28, 2010
        Nine members of the Hutaree Militia are arrested in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana and charged with seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction. The group, whose website said it was preparing for the imminent arrival of the anti-Christ, allegedly planned to murder a Michigan police officer, then use bombs and homemade missiles to kill other officers attending the funeral, all in a bid to set off a war with the government.

        April 15, 2010
        Matthew Fairfield, who is president of a local chapter of an antigovernment “Patriot” organization called the Oath Keepers, is indicted on 28 explosives charges, 25 counts of receiving stolen property and one count of possessing criminal tools. Authorities searching his home discover a napalm bomb built by Fairfield, along with a computer carrying child pornography. Fairfield later pleads guilty to explosives charges, but still faces trial on other counts.

        April 30, 2010
        Darren Huff, an Oath Keeper from Georgia, is arrested and charged with planning the armed takeover of a Madisonville, Tenn., courthouse and “arrest” of 24 local, state and federal officials. Authorities say Duff was angry about the April 1 arrest there of Walter Francis Fitzpatrick III, a leader of the far-right American Grand Jury movement that seeks to have grand juries indict President Obama for treason. Several others in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement accuse Duff of white supremacist and anti-Semitic attitudes in Internet postings.

        May 10, 2010
        Sandlin Matthew Smith detonates a pipe bomb at a rear entrance to a mosque in Jacksonville, Fla., while worshippers are inside. Armed only with a fuzzy videotape, authorities only identify Smith, based on talking to witnesses to whom he admits the attack, a year later. They track Smith, a bus driver from Julington Creek, Fla., to a campsite near Fairview, Okla., where he resists arrest with a gun and is killed. A search of Smith’s two homes turns up explosive materials.

        May 20, 2010
        A father and son team of “sovereign citizens” who believe police have no right to regulate road travel murder West Memphis, Ark., police officers Robert Brandon Paudert, 39, and Thomas William “Bill” Evans, 38, during a routine traffic stop on an I-40 exit ramp. The incident begins when Jerry Kane, 45, starts to argue with the officers over his bogus vehicle paperwork and then pushes Evans into a roadside ditch. Kane’s 16-year-old son then kills both officers with an AK-47 before the pair flees. Authorities catch up with them about 45 minutes later. In the ensuing shootout, two more officers are badly wounded and both Kanes are killed. The pair had been traveling the country offering seminars in bogus sovereign techniques for avoiding foreclosure and related matters.

        June 8, 2010
        A bomb packed into a soda can is planted outside Osage Baptist Church in Carroll City, Ark., where a polling station for a Democratic Senate primary runoff between Sen. Blanche Lincoln and Lt. Gov. Bill Halter is located. The device does not explode, although authorities say it was capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. Officials later receive a tip from contractors who hired to clean out the foreclosed home of self-described “Patriot” Mark Krause, where they find bomb-making materials, manuals, and materials related to antigovernment militias. Krause, who earlier posted antigovernment messages to MySpace, eventually is arrested in Seattle.

        July 18, 2010
        An unemployed parolee with two bank robbery convictions, apparently enraged at liberals and what he sees as the “left-wing agenda” of Congress, allegedly opens fire on California Highway Patrol troopers who pull him over in Oakland. No one is killed, but two troopers are slightly injured and Byron Williams is shot in the arms and legs. Williams allegedly later tells authorities that he was on his way to attack offices of the American Civil Liberties Union and the Tides Foundation, a liberal organization that, although little known to most Americans, has been repeatedly pilloried on air by Fox News host Glenn Beck.

        July 21, 2010
        Attorney Todd Getgen is shot to death at a gun range in Cumberland County, Penn., and his weapon, a silenced AR-15 rifle, is stolen. Authorities arrest prison guard Raymond Peake nine days later, saying Peake was trying to accumulate weapons for an unnamed organization that intended to overthrow the government. Fellow prison guard Thomas Tuso is also arrested for allegedly helping Peake hide Getgen’s custom-built weapon.

        Sept. 2, 2010
        A pipe bomb is thrown through the window of a closed Planned Parenthood clinic in Madera, Calif., along with a note that reads, “Murder our children? We have a ‘choice’ too.” The note is signed ANB, apparently short for the American Nationalist Brotherhood. Six months later, law enforcement officials arrest school bus driver Donny Eugene Mower, who allegedly also threatened a local Islamic Center and has the word “Peckerwood,” a reference to a white supremacist gang, tattooed on his chest. Mower reportedly confesses to the attack.

        Sept. 7, 2010
        The FBI arrests 26-year-old Justin Carl Moose, a self-described “freedom fighter” and “Christian counterpart to Osama bin Laden,” for allegedly planning to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. After earlier receiving tips that Moose was posting threats of violence against abortion providers and information about explosives on his Facebook page, the FBI set up a sting operation to capture him. Moose later pleads guilty to distributing information on manufacturing and use of an explosive and is sentenced to 30 months in prison.

        Sept. 19, 2010
        An antigovernment extremist with ties to the separatist Republic of Texas organization allegedly opens fire on an oil company worker and two sheriff’s deputies who show up at White’s property in West Odessa, Texas, to access an oil well to which the company has rights. Victor White, 55, allegedly wounds all three men before they retreat, and a 22-hour standoff follows. White eventually surrenders and is charged with three counts of attempted capital murder of a peace officer, one count of attempted capital murder, and aggravated assault.

        Jan. 14, 2011
        Federal agents in Arizona arrest Jeffery Harbin, a member of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement, for allegedly building homemade grenades and pipe bombs that he apparently intended to supply to anti-immigration groups patrolling the Mexican border. A prosecutor says that Harbin constructed the devices, using model rocket engines and aluminum power, “in such a way as to maximize human carnage.” Harbin is indicted on two counts of possessing a destructive device and a third of transporting destructive devices. Jeffery Harbin is the son of Jerry Harbin, a Phoenix-area activist with past ties to the neo-Nazi National Alliance and the racist Council of Conservative Citizens.

        Jan. 17, 2011
        Bomb technicians defuse a sophisticated improvised explosive device (IED) found in a backpack along the Spokane, Wash., route of a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade with 1,500 marchers. Using forensic clues found in the dismantled bomb, officials about two months later identify and arrest Kevin William Harpham, a long-time neo-Nazi. Harpham had posted more than 1,000 messages to the neo-Nazi Vanguard News Network since 2004, when he was a member of the neo-Nazi National Alliance. Harpham also had contributed to the white supremacist Aryan Alternative newspaper. He is indicted on one count of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and one count of possessing an IED. Later, federal hate crime charges are added.

        March 10, 2011
        Six members of the antigovernment Alaska Peacemakers Militia, including its leader Francis Schaeffer Cox, are arrested and charged with plotting to kill or kidnap state troopers and a Fairbanks judge. The group already has a large cache of weapons, including a .50-caliber machine gun and grenades and a grenade launcher. Cox earlier identified himself as a “sovereign citizen.”

        May 14, 2011
        Three masked men break into the Madrasah Islamiah, an Islamic center in Houston, and douse prayer rugs with gasoline in an apparent attempt to burn the center down. Images of the men are captured on surveillance cameras, but they are not identified. The fire is put out before doing major damage.

        • nhthinker

          “If you do not include 9-11…”

          I STOPPED READING as you admit you have to suspend truth to make your point.

          Your argument is fantasy.

        • armstp

          Right-wing terror is a bigger problem in the U.S. than Islamic Extremist terror. There are a lot more right-wing terrorists in the U.S. who have perpetrated attacks in this country than Islamic Extremists in the last 10 years.

        • StarSpangledSpanner


          Of course you did. You never seem to let the truth close to your thinking process. You really do need to change your handle to NHClosedmind.

        • Kevin B

          “If you do not include 9-11…”

          I STOPPED READING as you admit you have to suspend truth to make your point.

          Your argument is fantasy.

          You picked the arbitrary ten-year period. If we make it 9.75 years, then 9/11 falls off the list. If we make it 20 years, then we get to include Oklahoma City.

        • rbottoms

          This is an amazing piece of research.

          I’m going to turn it into an iPhone app.

      • trouserarousal

        doesn’t radical islamist terrorism fall under the category of right-wing terrorism? i think it does.

  • Primrose

    while I really don’t think that a terrorist attack by one group means another group isn’t planning something massive, I agree completely that winning against disconnected, non-state actors will be a continuum not an event.

  • Primrose

    NHThinker, point of grammar Bill Ayers was a politically motivated terrorist. He is no longer an advocate of terrorism.

    • nhthinker

      Bill Ayers, as quoted in NYT, in the past decade…

      ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

      Bill Ayers is a terrorist in his heart… Your denying it just proves how well the liberal propaganda machine works on the peanut gallery.

      • greg_barton

        Ayers was active before I was born.

        I’m 40.

        Do you have an example that someone not entering the AARP can remember?

        • nhthinker


          So if you were the son of policeman killed by Weathermen activity and you knew of a Weatherman that once planted bombs and within the last decade told the NYT he regretted not planting more, would you consider that person still an unrepentant terrorist that had not been held accountable for his actions? Or would you have the memory of an infant or a typical liberal and say he is not a terrorist because he had not admitted any additional terrorism after the Vietnam war ended?

        • greg_barton

          I never said anything about Ayers being or not being a terrorist. That is your own personal fiction.


          So you have one left wing example. Any more?

        • nhthinker


          The thread started with Primrose claiming that Ayers IS not a terrorist- Ayers WAS a terrorist.
          I disagreed and said Ayers IS a terrorist in his heart.
          You asked “Do you have an example that someone not entering the AARP can remember?”
          I assumed you asked the question to determine the “tense- past/present” as to whether Ayers was/is a terrorist…

          If you had another purpose to your question, then it would be appropriate for you to explain why you asked it.

          Ayers helped the young Obama in Chicago political circles- clearly to you that is not a big deal.

        • JimBob

          We can’t help it if you’re a punk kid Barton. But facts are still facts. Barry Hussein started his political career in the living room of one of this countries biggest terrorists Bill Ayers.

  • Houndentenor

    Please don’t gloat about the lack of recent Al Qaeda attacks on US soil. Some of us get nervous when people tempt fate that way. It may well be possible that the terror network and the ability to launder money internationally are indeed so disrupted that another big attack is unlikely. Or something big could happen tomorrow. I don’t know what Al Qaeda is planning next and neither does anyone else here. So please keep such comments to yourselves.

  • nhthinker

    “So terrorism is no longer an issue ! Maybe you will stop with the islamaphobia nonsense now ”

    Another two straw man arguments in a single post.

    Terrorism is an issue, but when considering the deaths of Americans, there are more important issues.

    What have I presented here about Islamists and their threat that is nonsense?

    • StarSpangledSpanner

      “What have I presented here about Islamists and their threat that is nonsense?”

      To paraphrase $arah Palin “All of it”

      • nhthinker


        Complete and total BS… the only things I’ve mention about Islam in this thread:

        “AFAIK, Pam Geller never indicated using terrorism against people that were not as anti-Islamic as she is was an appropriate course of action. BTW, I’m not a Geller fan.

        INFLUENCED? I don’t know. Did they both share Islamaphobic POVs- sure. Does that make Geller a terrorist inspirer or influencer? Where is YOUR evidence?
        To me, it’s relatively clear from his writings that Anders anti-Islamic tendencies started with his own experiences in Norway: not what he read on Geller’s site.

        How many Americans were killed by RW terrorists in the last ten years?
        Compare that to the number of Americans killed by Islamist terrorists”

        So which of those statements were nonsense and how were they nonsense?

        Do you have evidence that Geller called for terrorism against people that are not Islamophobic?

        If not, then my first assertion is not nonsense….

        Do you have evidence that Anders was in any way influenced to be more radical because he visited Geller’s web site?

        If not, then my second assertion is not nonsense….

        Are you going to argue that Islamists killing more Americans in the past ten years compared to RW terrorists is nonsense?
        Please do…that ought to be rich.

        Which leaves you as the only one spewing nonsense assertions that you do not even attempt to support.
        As to:
        “Terrorism is an issue, but when considering the deaths of Americans, there are more important issues.”
        you seem to have conceded that assertion of mine.

  • nhthinker

    NHT: I STOPPED READING as you admit you have to suspend truth to make your point”

    SSS: “‘I STOPPED READING’ …Of course you did. You never seem to let the truth close to your thinking process. You really do need to change your handle to NHClosedmind.”

    You have now resorted to terse cut quotes to try to win an argument. It’s another form of strawman argument practiced by the weak minded.

    armstp might have just as well said ” if Al Qaeda didn’t exist, then RW terrorism would be more important”…. In either case, its nonsense. 9/11 happened, AQ exists. Hundreds and hundred of billions of dollars of damage occurred- hundreds of billions of dollars are spent on countermeasures for AQ because of the threat of them causing hundreds of billions in damage again.

    Wishing 9/11 didn’t happen so you can focus on RW terrorism is fantasy land. I’m not one to get caught up in your imaginary world.

    • StarSpangledSpanner

      A mind so closed that you would not read a list of RW terror. Yes a closed mind.

      • nhthinker

        A judgement of “close minded” from an “intellect” that conjures threads of conspiracy between British journalist tabloid hacking and a terrorist in Norway.

        Yes, I am too close minded to be admitted to your liberal tinfoil hat club.

        You have not been able to defend a single one of your assertions here. Not one.


        So who put together the list? SPLC Hate group list? The one that intentionally omits foreign influenced terrorism from their lists and considered the Jewish Defense League as a Right wing hate group?
        How does it compare to the list of men that kill the women in their lives?
        How does it compare to gang bangers that kill government workers or shoot at firemen trying to do their jobs?

        Your unstated argument seems to be that advocating less government can inspire terrorism so we should use laws to control speech…
        Is that where you are heading?

        • StarSpangledSpanner

          You seem keen to draw wild conclusions from scant evidence. The list was a list of Right wing Terror of the recent past, nothing more nothing less.

          It shows that there is a problem.

          Your denial of RW terror shows a closed ideological mind that will not accept evidence which goes against your preconceived rigid ideas of the world you inhabit.

          Then you project your delusional persecution complex on the people questioning your ideas.

          Speak away “thinker” speak all you wish.

          You make little sense but spout your rhetoric till the proverbial cows come home, be my guest.

        • nhthinker

          More crap… even Janet Napolitano said the DHS report was done by a rogue group in the DHS.

          “What about Napolitano?
          Napolitano initially supported the report. She issued an official press release [on April 14, 2009] that said DHS has the authority to look at all types of threats. And we need to be vigilant. It was very supportive and direct.

          Unfortunately, not too many people listened, and they kept applying political pressure. She held a couple of press conferences, trying to put out that same message. And people just kept continuing the pressure, especially after Congress got involved. [Editor's note: For example, U.S. Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), then the ranking member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, wrote to Napolitano to complain about what he called "a shoddy, unsubstantiated, and potentially politicized work."]

          I don’t know whether her staff advised her to, but she eventually backtracked. The DHS press spokesman came up with this story that it was all unauthorized and orchestrated by a rogue group of analysts. DHS caved in”

          You have yet to support a single one of your assertions, not one!

          My assertion is that you have absolutely no idea where the list came from and no ability to check, nor any interest in knowing its accuracy nor what definitions the authors used to include or exclude anecdotes from the list. Typical for the left wing. Swallow while they pump it to you and then spam us with it.

          “Your denial of RW terror shows a closed ideological mind that will not accept evidence which goes against your preconceived rigid ideas of the world you inhabit.”

          Point to a single denial of RW terrorism… You can’t. Yet another completely false assertion by you as part of yet another straw man argument.

        • armstp


          “My assertion is that you have absolutely no idea where the list came from and no ability to check, nor any interest in knowing its accuracy nor what definitions the authors used to include or exclude anecdotes from the list. Typical for the left wing. Swallow while they pump it to you and then spam us with it.”

          Not only are you disingeneous, but you are also lazy!

          You want to verify the list I have provided you above, then all you simply need to do is pick say 10 of the incidents and just Google them. You will find many newspaper articles on any one of these acts of domestic terrorism.

          Let me randomly pick one to show you how it is done:

          “October 25, 2004
          FBI agents in Tennessee arrest farmhand Demetrius “Van” Crocker after he tried to purchase ingredients for deadly sarin nerve gas and C-4 plastic explosives from an undercover agent. The FBI reports that Crocker, who local officials say was involved in a white supremacist group in the 1980s, tells the agent that he admires Hitler and hates Jews and the government. He also says “it would be a good thing if somebody could detonate some sort of weapon of mass destruction on Washington, D.C.” Crocker is convicted of trying to get explosives to destroy a building and imprisoned until an expected release in 2030.”

          Google: “Crocker”, “Tennessee”, “FBI”

          Out pops:

          “West Tennessee Terrorist Gets 30 Years”


          DOMESTIC TERRORISM – Tip Leads to Sting, Prison for Plotter

          You can do this simple exercise for every single example of domestic terrorism in the list above.

          You are such a moron. You would argue the black is white and white is black. Anyone that does not believe that right-wing domestic terrorism in the U.S. is not a significant problem in this country lives on another planet, which is where you and your Tea Party buddies clearly live. A fantasy world were facts have no meaning.

        • armstp


          Did you even read the article/interview that you link to? There is no actual cristism in it that the report was wrong. There was some complaining that it was leaked. In fact, the guy who wrote the report in the article/interview you quote says this:

          “It was an extremely frustrating time, to see conservatives and media folks taking the report out of context and misinterpreting it. [Conservative columnist] Michelle Malkin called it Obama’s “hit job” to target conservatives and others said it called everyone “on the right” a terrorist.”

          The guy you reference is actually critizing the conservatives for critizing this report.

          Also, from the article you quote:

          “Sad to say, we were right on this one. History has shown that. I’d also like people to know that we were not directing LEOs to do anything. We were prohibited from doing so. All we could do was say there is a trend emerging, and if you have these folks in your jurisdiction, perhaps you should think about how you are using your resources. Malkin and others totally misconstrued this.”

          Your quoted article seems to be saying exactly the opposite to what you are trying to prove by quoting it. They author of the report completely stands by it content.

          In fact, the author of the report in the article you quote was disappointed that political pressure from the “right” finally got to Napolitano and she backtracked:

          I felt as if I had been betrayed. I had been the recipient of numerous awards at DHS. Our team was considered to be a very productive team that knew its customers. Our co-workers, field representatives and law enforcement counterparts respected us. Many thought we were doing great work.”

          “What ultimately happened?

          Napolitano eventually told Congress that DHS was going to remove the report from its websites. Some of the people in the media assumed they were recalling the report. That never happened. There is actually a formal process involved when you want to rescind a report. The only reason you do so is if there was something erroneous in the document. Napolitano also told Congress that DHS was going to pull this report back and refashion it into a much more usable format. It never happened.”

  • StarSpangledSpanner

    I did not mention DHS at all, your figmented imagination at work again “thinker” Perhaps you are on hallucinogenic drugs.

    • nhthinker

      You didn’t mention DHS nor SPLC… It was SPLC that created the “terrorist act” list and worked with DHS to put together the now rejected and ridiculed DHS report.
      You referred to the infamous SPLC list (without even knowing it was the SPLC list nor did you have any knowledge of its connection to the DHS report).

      You didn’t mention anything that you could back up with any facts or references. Nada.

  • Dazedandconfused

    Well at any rate, this shows how tribalism and nationalism can pervert minds. The raising on ones nation or tribe above another to the point of no longer believing the “other” is a human being is old stuff. The oldest, perhaps. It crops up from time to time and we must be continually on guard, for it opens the door to unspeakable evil.

    The image of that island brought to my addled mind a song from long ago. Captures infinite sadness for the innocent victims of nationalism through history as well as any, I guess. All of them.

    We must struggle, however fruitlessly, to remember not to hate the Flood. That is what it wants.

  • Raskolnik


    You were right, I did have you confused with someone who is pro-Israel.

    First, a bit of background: my father fought armed Communist insurgents in his native land, before emigrating to the United States. My mother had to flee her own homeland (not the same country as my father’s) for the United States, seeking asylum from the Communists.

    So, to me, the threat of violent left-wing radicalism is not some theoretical construct or talking point on the radio. It is a part of my family’s history, and by extension, of my history; it has everything to do with why I was born in the United States and not somewhere else.

    Without downplaying the very real danger posed by al Qaeda and other violent Islamist networks, I think it is important to recognize, as the article points out, that improved security measures since 9/11 have largely worked to constrain the ability of Islamists to successfully execute a terror attack.

    What the other commenters appear to be saying, and what the article above indicates, is that the greater threat now posed is the threat of violence from within. Islamists may wish very badly that they could hurt us, but they are largely unable to. By contrast, citizens of the United States and Western Europe who wish to carry out an attack like the one in Norway, or any of the other attacks mentioned, are constrained far less by our security procedures. So in a very down-to-earth sense, while 9/11 puts the “body count” strictly in the Islamists’ favor, it appears that going forward the larger threat we face comes from disaffected radical nativist/nationalist movements and from individuals sympathetic to those movements.

    Bill Ayers cannot properly be labeled anything other than a terrorist, however, when was the last time a radical leftist committed murder in the name of leftist ideology? That’s not a rhetorical question, I honestly can’t think of a current example. Now contrast that to the Oklahoma City bombing, or the Planned Parenthood attacks, or this most recent case in Norway. Have you seen Jesus Camp? That movie gives me the willies. I am not aware of any militant training camps for left-wing child soldiers. Are you?

    The 60s are over, the civil wars fought over Communism are largely over, leftists these days are weak-kneed to a fault. Just to be clear I am not a leftist, a “liberal,” or a secular humanist in any way shape or form. But I recognize that, particularly after our new security procedures in the wake of 9/11, the more immediate danger seems to come from militant right-wing individuals and groups. Particularly as al Qaeda is perhaps more properly considered a right-wing than a left-wing organization. That is not a reason to ditch Conservatism, any more than it is a reason to stop working against al Qaeda; it may be, however, food for thought and rational concern.

    One final point of order. Lost amid the general cantankerousness about Syria is the fact that the ruling Ba’ath party, while considering itself intellectually independent from mainstream Western Marxism and its associated political movements, nonetheless is primarily a secular leftist party. Marxist ideology continues to serve as a point of dissension within the Syrian Ba’ath, to the point that the opposition has openly Marxist and Maoist elements. But Marxism, and other forms of Socialist ideology, have never been completely disavowed openly even from within the circles of Ba’ath leadership. The fact remains that Saddam Hussein was, as President al-Assad is, nominally the head of a secular “Arab Socialist” government. Maybe the leftists here would care to comment.

  • tommybones

    “The fact remains that Saddam Hussein was, as President al-Assad is, nominally the head of a secular “Arab Socialist” government. Maybe the leftists here would care to comment.”

    Calling oneself a “socialist” doesn’t make one a socialist any more than calling oneself a genius makes one a genius. If Hussein’s government was, in practice, a socialist government, then I’m the Pope.

  • rubbernecker

    Predictably, nhthinker hijacks the thread to deflect from the fallout of right-wing radicalism. If only he recites his Bill Ayers mantra enough maybe he’ll win converts. Deus lo volt!

    • marcopolo

      Deflect, deny, obfuscate, lie.

      The right wing way.

    • JimBob

      We can’t help it if the Chicago Street Hustler Barry Hussein started his political career in the living room of one of this nations biggest terrorists.

      • TerryF98

        The deflect part.

      • armstp


        What is wrong with the term “Chicago Street Hustler”. I would say that is a term used to describe someone who is from the great city of Chicago, is connected to the “Street” (ie. the common people) and hustles to get ahead in society. We should have more Chicago street hustlers and more people with the name Hussein.

        Bill Ayers is one of this country’s biggest terrorists? He is so big that he is not even in jail and is actually a respectable Professor.

  • JimBob

    Sorry Frum, but Israels problems are not ours. Ronald Reagan hardly an enemy of the Jewish state wrote in his memoirs that United States policy in the Middle East should be neutrality.

  • Rob_654

    1) I am stunned that Norway was attacked.

    2) This attacker has been described as a “Christian fundamentalist”.

    I have yet to hear Christian leaders and Christians all over the planet “Denounce and Reject” this guys actions.

    Will Christian Leaders all over the country and world denounce this act of terror from a “Christian Fundamentalist” in front of their congregations, on 24 Hours News shows, in newspapers, etc… as so many Christians demand that every member of the Muslim faith do so when there is an attack by Islamic Fundamentalists?

    Or, is there still some double standard where, of course, we know if a someone does something like this they aren’t really a “Christian” because that’s now how “we” do things?

    • JimBob

      Loser, the Norway nut was just that a nut. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

      • TerryF98

        The deny part.

      • tommybones

        Right Wing ideological mass-murdering terrorists = Lone Nut
        Islamic Ideological mass-murdering terrorist = Massive Worldwide Conspiracy

        Got it. Thanks.

        • indy

          You nailed that equation pretty well. The general form:

          When somebody in that group over there does it, it reflects on all of them. When somebody in my group over here does it, it’s an anomaly.

      • Rob_654

        I will accept that you are not a Christian since Christians don’t call names…

        But just in case you believe you are a Christian, I noticed that you did not reject and denounce the actions of this Fundamentalist Christian and I have to call into question why you are not rejecting and denouncing his actions?

        And why I have yet to hear Christian leaders coming out to reject and denounce this terrorist act as we hear from so many Christians that Muslims must do whenever there is some Fundamentalist Muslim that commits a terrorist act.

  • Traveler

    According to his manifesto, he was defending Norwegians against the Muslims. The Christian Right versus the Muslim Right. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Note that there has been a major resurgence of militant right wing militias since BO was elected. The new south arises….

    I wish we could ship all these fools off to Suadi Arabia where they can fight it out amongst themselves and let the rest of us carry on with our lives.

  • Bagok

    One thing to note, right wing terrorists are most active during Democratic administrations. This leads to a false sense of security when a Republican is in the White House for a couple of election cycles. This time round the terrorists started their activities before a Democrat was even elected (the Denver snipers for instance). Look for things to really heat up if it looks like Obama will win a second term. Just my opinion of course, and one I’d be happy to be wrong about.

    • JimBob

      Dumber than a load of bricks.

      • TerryF98

        The insult part, thats a bonus point Smarg.

      • Bagok

        Trolled by JimBob. I feel like I’ve made it now.

        In all honesty my comment was a setup for the trolls and didn’t add anything to the conversation. I feel bad for taking cheap shots. I apologize to the regulars for a non-content post. I should have waited until the coffee kicked in.

    • abj

      And this is relevant to the terrorist attack in Norway….how, exactly?

    • Raskolnik


      Thanks for the link. I, for one, had no idea the killer was a Freemason.

  • tommybones

    You folks do realize that the Civil War never ended? That it simply turned into a Cold War, which continues to this day?

  • Raskolnik


    When I think of “Conservatism” I think of William Buckley first and foremost. You have to understand–or maybe you don’t have to, but I’m hoping that you will understand–back in the 60s and 70s, liberalism was completely brain-dead. The John Birch Society was paranoid and delusional and anti-intellectual, but completely on the fringe (or off of it). The much stronger and more perniciously anti-intellectual currents were on the Left. The situation only intensified in the 1980s and early 1990s, when a small handful of university professors were misappropriating the philosophy of Martin Heidegger and Jacques Derrida, among others, to launch an all out assault on reason, religion, and normative morality. Ironically it has been many of those same “Theoretical” philosophies behind the let’s-make-our-own-reality policies of Rove and Cheney.

    Ultimately, as I’ve said before and will likely have to say again, I feel that our left-right political paradigm is unhelpful to the point of actively obscuring our political discourse. It is inherited from the French Revolution, when all the atheists/utopian socialists sat on the left side of the Estates-Generales, and all the Catholics/royalists sat on the right. Ever since then, it has been comparatively rare to find religious people on the “left” or to find (self-identified) atheists on the “right.” Now, in the United States of the twenty-first century, that is changing rapidly, which is one of the many reasons I say that our left-right paradigm should be jettisoned. The mapping of left and right onto Democrats and Republicans is something of a stretch; by contemporary standards, the Democrats are on the continuum from center-left to center-right, while the Republicans are center-right to extreme far right.

    Getting back to your question (why not ditch Conservatism?), I feel that, as my faith is the most important part of my life, even when I tend to disagree with fellow Conservatives about some particular policy or its application, there is often enough a kind of common ground that supersedes the superficial differences. In the most blunt terms, I feel out of place among secular humanists; while I can see that, more often than not, their hearts are in the right place, their lack of faith leads them to short-sighted half-measures to deal with the most profound questions (both personally and in terms of public/foreign policy). I understand where they are coming from, but much in the same way that I am unable to countenance the shallow, hypocritical religiosity of so much of the Tea Party, so I am unable to contribute to a political party that continues to be beholden to a base that is at best irreligious and at worst anti-religious. To me, the GOP is still the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower. To me, the tragedy is that the Republican Party could have been–and the hope is that it could still be–a place for genuinely faithful people of all cultures and walks of life. I suppose it is possible that the Democratic Party could perform the same function, however to my mind it seems more likely that the Democratic Party will continue to serve as a haven for the faithless. I will take the Democrats over the Christianists of the Religious Reich any day of the week; but I will take Eisenhower over either of them, any day of the week.

  • ProfNickD

    I’m just waiting for the Left/progressives to start with the rationalizations, excuses, apologetics, and justifications — you know, like they do with Islamic terror:

    * “we must try to understand his anger”

    * “he was driven to violence due to _____ by the United States”

    * “he was driven to violence due to _____ by Israel”

    * “he was driven to violence due to _____ social conditions”

    * “if only we had listened to his demands”

    * “if we were in his shoes, we might have acted he same”

    Any of these sound familiar?

    • Banty

      I think you meant to say:

      “Darn darn darn! I can’t find anything from a left wing blog or other such sources that posit some juicy, clearly fallacious and unreasonable, statements about the massacres in Norway. I’ll just have to make up something and then say it’s just a matter of time ..”

    • baw1064

      “* “he was driven to violence due to _____ social conditions””

      Considering he lives in one of the wealthiest, most democratic, most open, and most economically successful countries in the world, he has zero reason to feel picked on.

  • tommybones

    False equivalency alert! Well done, Nick!

    Meanwhile, Nick continues to imply the ridiculous notion that understanding the motivations which lead to an attack is a bad thing. He also, absurdly, considers this understanding to be the same as “rationalizations, excuses, apologetics, and justifications.”

    By his idiotic logic, if you studied the Nazi party’s motivations, you’d automatically be “rationalizing,” or even “apologizing” for Nazi atrocities.

    Does this make sense? No. It’s embarrassingly idiotic. More than that, it allows him to ignore diving into the ugly cesspool of right wing violence. If you asked “why” in cases of right wing violence, it would reveal the ugliness and lies at the heart of MAINSTREAM right wing propaganda.

    It’s much easier to ignore the “why” and write off case after case after case of wingnut violence as a series of unrelated “lone nuts.”

    In Nick’s world Sun Tzu’s famous lesson is nothing more than “rationalizations, excuses, apologetics, and justifications.”

    “It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.”

  • morristhewise

    The voice of Racism at Oslo was loud and clear. But that voice will be quieted as the killer spends years in his prison cell. The only sound will be the sound of his voice asking the guard to open the gate, so he can spend some time in the prison yard. He would gladly accept Multiculturalism if given a few less years of prison time.

    • armstp


      I am sure this guys is going to directly learn about multiculturalism in jail, although I am sure he will join a “white supremist” gang in jail.

      The challenge will be that this guy will certainly become a martyr for some in the white supremist far-right world.

  • armstp

    What is funny or sad is that all these right-wing nuts on here and in the “media” go absolutely nuts when there is a “islamist” terror attack, but cannot accept the fact that there are also attacks from the far-right. They are all hypocrites. If this attack would have been done by a muslim (which very easily could have been, which shows you how similar far-right and extremist Islamic groups are) we would not be hearing the end of it. There would be no “lone nut” talk out of Jimbob, NH, Prof, etc.

  • SFTor1

    I just read this post, and I am absolutely dumbfounded.

    Norway was just viciously attacked by a right-wing extremist, and David Frum manages to write a piece about Islamist terrorism.

    Maybe it is embarrassing that a good right-thinking Christian like Mr. Breivig can be such a monster.

    But come on, David Frum. This was a cowardly piece of journalism.

  • TerryF98

    The gunman/bomber, full of the usual Conservative feelings of “personal responsibility ™” is to plead.

    Not Guilty.


  • anniemargret

    I, too, am appalled at Frum’s dissection of what is transparently a ‘lone nut’ with right wing “Christian fundamentalist’ Freemason anti-multiculturalism, anti-liberal world views. Instead of focusing on ‘jidhadists’ or Islamic terrorism, why did he not discuss why this man took his ideology to such an extreme? What persuaded him to look into the abyss of evil and then enter it? Will the world see more of right wing terrorism?

    Rhetoric has ramifications. Because of the intensity of 21st century media, we have a responsibility to call out those on either extremes of ideology who so casually use words that would stir up more hate and fear because they don’t like the opposing side’s arguments.

    SHAME on them all, TV/radio talking heads, politicians, etc…including those that post here that are virtually calling Americans who differ from their pov’s “Marxists” “Communists” “Socialists’ etc….

    If you don’t like the President’s policies,if you disagree with progressive/liberal ideas for improving this country, then spend more time finding the candidate of your choice (if you can) in the GOP. It’s past time whining about the fact that 69 million people voted Barack Obama to be POTUS

    Like the uninformed and ignorant woman who jumped up at the McCain rally in ’08 and said she was afraid of President Obama because he was an ‘Arab’, it is only one more step away from stirring up mobs.

  • linusk

    What is the difference between a person who kills en mass, using explosives, IEDs, rocket grenades and crashing planes vs. one who kills as many people one by one, using guns or letter bombs? Is that the difference between a Radical Islamist bad guy and a Extremist Christianist one?

  • JimBob

    There is an excellent op-ed in Monday’s WSJ about the shooter by Bruce Bawer

    The shooter is very concerned about the spread of totalitarian Islam and thought by doing this it would get Europeans to start fighting back.

    It’s obvious the guy is a nut, but he is right about Islam. I’ve said it on this forum several times that I expect to see a civil war in Europe in my lifetime as the Muslim population grows. Islam is not compatible with liberal tolerant societies.

    • tommybones

      “Islam is not compatible with liberal tolerant societies.”

      Um… never mind. Pointless….

      • JimBob

        Give it your best shot. Turkey, Indonesia, and Malaysia are supposed to be countries with a tolerant brand of Islam. Just don’t try leaving Islam and becoming a Christian.

        • tommybones

          Let’s start with Iran in 1953.

          The Iranian People, a large majority being Muslim, voted in a free and fair DEMOCRATIC election for a SECULAR government. That government was instantly one of the most progressive in the entire Middle East. It wasn’t a Theocracy. It was a secular Social Democracy.

          The CIA backed a military coup (with help from the British Secret Service) that deposed the democratically elected Iranian parliament and assassinated the elected leader, which resulted in the installation of a brutal dictator (and CIA puppet) who repressed the Iranian population while catering to the United States multi-national corporations for the better part of 25 years.

          So, is it that Muslims are incapable of supporting a “liberal, tolerant society”? Or perhaps has history shown that the U.S. crushes any semblance of true democracies in oil-rich regions, preferring to cut deals with ruthless dictators who will cater to our oil companies?

  • jakester

    I am sure the usual dime store ideologues will find some element about the killer’s psyche or belief system that is contrary to talk radio conservatism so they can call him a vile leftist

  • nhthinker

    The lefties here really need to read the FBI’s website
    and look at the most recent reports on terrorism.

    Terrorism is serious with over 15000 fatalities worldwide in 2009.
    The US had 25 fatalities due to terrorism. 16 in the US, 6 in Afghanistan, and one each in Iraq, Somali and Mauritania.

    The threat of RW terrorism is real, but miniscule as compared to terrorism globally and is not leading to the deaths of many Americans.
    Lightning killed more Americans (34) in 2009 than terrorism did.
    The 15 leading causes of death in 2009 (Table B) were:
    1. Diseases of heart
    2. Malignant neoplasms
    3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
    4. Cerebrovascular diseases
    5. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
    6. Alzheimer’s disease
    7. Diabetes mellitus
    8. Influenza and pneumonia
    9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis
    10 Intentional self-harm (suicide)
    11. Septicemia
    12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
    13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
    14. Parkinson’s disease
    15. Assault (homicide) ===> 18000+

    terrorism represents 1/700th of all homicides in the US.
    ““If we had 100 percent compliance for seat belt and motorcycle helmet use, we would have saved an additional 4,420 lives in 2009.”

    So why are some people here trying to hijack this thread to talk about the miniscule amount of “RW terrorism” in the USA?

    The only reason is to try to score some political points on the sad ordeal in Norway.

    They should just leave that crap on the Huffington Post where it belongs.

    • tommybones

      I wonder if NHThinker, as he posted this, realized the hypocrisy? The right has made the threat of terror the spine of their foreign policy agenda since 9/11, yet the moment a right-wing terrorist goes on a killing spree, this particular right-winger acts like it’s the left who has been playing the fear card for political purposes all along.


      Literally, a significant percentage of the U.S. population have utterly lost their minds.

    • zephae

      “Terrorism is serious with over 15000 fatalities worldwide in 2009.” (CDC: 15. Assault (homicide) ===> 18000+)

      terrorism represents 1/700th of all homicides in the US.”

      “the miniscule amount of “RW terrorism” in the USA”

      Oh, so terrorism is a serious issue, but only when it helps further your political goals. It’s bad enough you had to try and pull a bait-and-switch but you did a very poor one.

      • nhthinker

        You obviously failed math and would never make it as an actuary for an insurance company.

        18000 homicides in the US…. 25 US citizen death due to terrorism of all kinds including RW terrorism.

        You idiots are just Chicken Littles.

        More American children were killed by their babysitters than Americans killed by terrorists…

        Your lack of perspective is appalling.
        Murder Circumstances
        by Relationship,1 2009
        Circumstances Total murder victims
        Total 13,636
        Felony type total: 2,020
        Rape 24
        Robbery 849
        Burglary 105
        Larceny-theft 13
        Motor vehicle theft 23
        Arson 38
        Prostitution and commercialized vice 6
        Other sex offenses 10
        Narcotic drug laws 487
        Gambling 5
        Othernot specified 460
        Suspected felony type 56
        Other than felony type total: 6,728
        Romantic triangle 87
        Child killed by babysitter 28
        Brawl due to influence of alcohol 116
        Brawl due to influence of narcotics 93
        Argument over money or property 203
        Other arguments 3,334
        Gangland killings 180
        Juvenile gang killings 715
        Institutional killings 10
        Sniper attack 1
        Othernot specified 1,961
        Unknown 4,832

        As to hypocrisy, that is another straw man. Quote ME(NHThinker) as to where I have been hypocritical, if you can: I am not part of a monolithic “Right” that needs to defend all assertions that anyone on the “Right” ever made.

    • tommybones

      One also need realize the ridiculously narrow definition of terrorism.


      The United States has defined terrorism under the Federal Criminal Code. Chapter 113B of Part I of Title 18 of the United States Code defines terrorism and lists the crimes associated with terrorism. In Section 2331 of Chapter 113b, terrorism is defined as:

      “… activities that involve violent… or life-threatening acts… that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and… appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping”

      U.S. Code of Federal Regulations:

      “…the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

      Current U.S. national security strategy:

      “premeditated, politically motivated violence against innocents.”

      United States Department of Defense:

      the “calculated use of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.”

      USA Patriot Act:

      “activities that (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the U.S. or of any state, that (B) appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping, and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.”

      The U.S. National Counter Terrorism Center (NCTC) described a terrorist act as one which was:

      “premeditated; perpetrated by a subnational or clandestine agent; politically motivated, potentially including religious, philosophical, or culturally symbolic motivations; violent; and perpetrated against a noncombatant target.”

      Under every definition, the U.S. government, along with our friend Israel, is guilty of terrorism on a massive scale. This must be acknowledged and understood if we are to truly fight a “war on terror.”

      As Greenwald posted recently:

      “That Terrorism means nothing more than violence committed by Muslims whom the West dislikes has been proven repeatedly. When an airplane was flown into an IRS building in Austin, Texas, it was immediately proclaimed to be Terrorism, until it was revealed that the attacker was a white, non-Muslim, American anti-tax advocate with a series of domestic political grievances. The U.S. and its allies can, by definition, never commit Terrorism even when it is beyond question that the purpose of their violence is to terrorize civilian populations into submission. Conversely, Muslims who attack purely military targets — even if the target is an invading army in their own countries — are, by definition, Terrorists. That is why, as NYU’s Remi Brulin has extensively documented, Terrorism is the most meaningless, and therefore the most manipulated, word in the English language. “

  • Carney

    I’m very close to this shooter’s ideology.

    Right wing Christian, anti-multicultural, friendly to euro-nationalism, opponent of large scale Muslim immigration especially to Europe, friendly to Israel.

    His actions have done more to harm his own goals and advance the cause of everything he despises than anything his enemies could possibly have done.

    Infuriating, frustrating. I greatly fear the aftermath of this. Greatly expanded immigration, or worse yet intensified indoctrination of youth by government/media/schools to ensure widespread rejection of ethnic nationalism and support for massive, transformative immigration of Muslims and other utter aliens to Europe.

    • greg_barton

      Utter aliens would be Martians, or maybe the Grays. Get some perspective, man!

    • Bebe99

      Don’t you agree then that merely holding an ideology or religious perspective isn’t enough to make one a terrorist. An additional element of social or mental dysfunction is also needed before one becomes a mass killer. This is not just the case for right wing extremists, but can be said for the Muslim terrorists as well.

      • tommybones

        Depends on your definition of social or mental dysfunction. History has shown the driving force behind people’s ideologies and actions is experience. Put your average, run-of-the-mill American into Germany in 1939 and they could very easily be shoving people in ovens. Why? Environment. Experience.

        • Bebe99

          The average person will probably join in the killing already going on, but they won’t be easily persuaded to martyr themselves. That’s a different story.

        • tommybones

          No, it isn’t a different story. You’ll notice suicide attackers have come from different cultures throughout history. It’s primarily their experience which pushes them in that direction.

    • TerryF98

      “I’m very close to this shooter’s ideology.”

      I hope the FBI, NSA and any other agency involved in monitoring RW terrorists are keeping a good watch on you if that is the case.