Comments on: New School Year, Same Frustrations

By: EscapeVelocity

EscapeVelocity — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:00:27 +0000

Inner City San Francisco….Limited School Choice within the Public School system.

Check it out.

I favor a broader school choice which includes the private sector….however the San Fran model shows that movement in that direction is the key. Any movement in that direction.

Its funny that the heart of Far New Leftism in this country has school choice in there city, but vehemently opposes it at the state and national level for other peoples kids. But then again, that is how Leftwingers operate, isnt it.

By: midcon

midcon — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:42:10 +0000

escapevelocity // Sep 1, 2009 at 2:23 pm Pretty sad that this issue goes so lightly commented on, by the “New Majority” folks that claim that Republicans lack interest in this subject….then go on to show that they themselves cant be arsed to comment on it and think about it.

Sad, but perhaps understandable. Propose something new to try and I will jump on board and try it. Everything else has been done to death. More money, more police, more of more. The urban school (code word for inner city minority majority) model is broken because it only infuences the students for 5-6 hours per day. Unless you are able to change that metric the status quo will continue except in rare instances. We ignore it out of futility.

By: EscapeVelocity

EscapeVelocity — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:23:01 +0000

Pretty sad that this issue goes so lightly commented on, by the “New Majority” folks that claim that Republicans lack interest in this subject….then go on to show that they themselves cant be arsed to comment on it and think about it.

LOL!

By: DFL

DFL — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:59:07 +0000

I wanted to thank midcon for the outstanding post. In the end, families have the most effect on a student’s success. Sadly, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan noted in the mid-60s, the creation of dysfunctional families was on the rise and would amount to being one of the most severe problems of our times. Dr. Moynihan was correct despite being pilloried at the time. The cycle of dysfunctional families has been intensifying for about fifty years- three and four generations for some families, if we can still call them families in the historical sense. I see much doom as a result.

virginiamom asks for solutions. My wife and I sacrificed salary so that she could home school. But I realize that homeschooling is not the solution for most. The solution may be intractable by government means.

By: EscapeVelocity

EscapeVelocity — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:24:04 +0000

School Choice, Vouchers Funded StateWide that Follow the Child, Local Administrative Autonomy for schools, and the Government as Regulator and Standards.

This isnt rocket science. There isnt a one size cookie cutter approach. Unleash the entrepaneurship and creativity of those who want to improve schools, cirricula, teaching methods….let the market drive variety and quality.

This has shown to be effective in Sweden, Edmonton, and San Francisco.

The NEA is a block to these successful reforms…..Unions usually are.

In the end, you have to realize that with freedom comes responsibility and that some kids and parents will make woeful choices. Without the right to make these poor choices, you have tyranny. Man is imperfectable.

The above program will lift all students without neglecting any who wish to progress, gifted as well as the less gifted…..all races colors and creeds.

Here is an interesting school….and very successful as well.

Spitting in the eye of mainstream education

LA Times….

Not many schools in California recruit teachers with language like this: “We are looking for hard working people who believe in free market capitalism. . . . Multicultural specialists, ultra liberal zealots and college-tainted oppression liberators need not apply.”

That, it turns out, is just the beginning of the ways in which American Indian Public Charter and its two sibling schools spit in the eye of mainstream education. These small, no-frills, independent public schools in the hardscrabble flats of Oakland sometimes seem like creations of television’s “Colbert Report.” They mock liberal orthodoxy with such zeal that it can seem like a parody.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-charter31-2009may31,0,7064053.story

I happen to think that High School Should be totally scrapped….some subject matter moved to the 6th, 7th, and 8th grades….and then trade and craft schools, technical schools, and college prepatory schools offered in High Schools place. Furthermore structured apprenticeships should be developed for trades and crafts, like plumbers and construction workers. Not only will the young people benefit, but businesses that employ them will, and so will the quality of these trades and crafts when you hire a plumber to work on your house, he and his helpers are more likely to be much higher skilled. As it is, anyone can buy some tools and call themselves a plumber.

But that is just one way to go.

By: virginiamom

virginiamom — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:25:36 +0000

I agree with your observations — I live in and have children enrolled in an urban school district that has these same problems — but what are your suggestions for a solution? The administrators, teachers, parents, and, most of all, students, share your frustrations and are desperate for a new path — if you are going to talk about the problem, follow up with some ideas about how to fix it.

By: midcon

midcon — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:09:20 +0000

It is all rather simple. Government can give a damn, citizens can give a damn, but if parents do not give a damn, then it does not matter. I am not riding a “family values” horse, but unless the equation is balanced by parents who provide some semblemence of structure in the home to reinforce what is taught at school, the results will be same, except for the few gifted individuals who can rise above their circumstances. Vouchers and charter schools are an example of where there must be (and is) interest from all segments (primarily government and parents). It is difficult to conclude whether charter schools seem to be successful because the school environment is different or the home environment complements the school environment or both. My guess it would be both.

To discuss solutions that do not encompass the home is a bandaid. While dfl’s ideas are pretty progressive (not in the liberal sense), they are less draconian than others I’ve seen here including mine. Still they miss the role of the parents and when the parents fail, the children are not far behind. What solutions are there for that piece? Well, barker and I had a thread awhile back that probably went too far but it was along the lines of – if the parents fail, get them remedial help, if they continue to fail, then consider whether they are acting in the best interests of the child, if not, then maybe they do not need to be responsible for and raise that child. Draconian? Sure and of course it’s not the entire answer, but if we don’t address that segment of the problem, we will continue to wax eloquently about the failings of the public school system; and teachers; and government; etc.

By: liv&win

liv&win — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:19:23 +0000

dfl, whoever mentioned perfection? Why would you even bother with such an comment? Kick out the trouble makers? OK, please define. Schools do that now in what is called zero tolerance whereby kids get expelled for having aspirin. Segregate schools by sex? do you mean whether they have done it or not? Just kidding. Trade-schools are great, but at what age does that start? There is so much to learn just to be an average intelligent, non-scholarly person that it should take 12 years of education to achieve what needs to be achieved. So sure, trades are great but how, when why? Then you get into the black/white thing. Your ideas may have merit, but you do not explain why they should be implemented and what problems your suggestions address other than “those darn black kids” (my quotes, not yours).
I am afraid that there would be some serious unintended consequences to your ideas.

By: DFL

DFL — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:05:15 +0000

Perfectability of the human race is a liberal tendency. It is impossible to achieve. The budget of the Baltimore school system could be tripled and not have much noticeable effect other than as a jobs program. If I could suggest reforms for Baltimore it would be these- 1) kick out all troublemakers, regardless of age; 2) segregate schools by sex; 3) return to genuine trade schools for the 80% non-scholars and 4) hire hundreds of black ex-military men with permission to use force in disciplining the students. But none of my reforms will ever happen. They’re not “progressive”.

By: barker13

barker13 — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:55:12 +0000

Re: Oldgal // Aug 31, 2009 at 12:50 pm (#5) –

“…we are giving the kids a present of x number of days without school…”

Ahh… but you’re also giving the SCHOOL – and thus all the teachers and students – a number of days without the miscreant disrupting the educational process.

Com’on, Oldgal… let’s look at that glass as being half full! (*WINK*)

“It would make more sense to make these kids attend extra classes, say on the week-ends, and maybe throw in some physical labor like cleaning up the school yard.”

Extra classes at WHOSE expense…??? (*SHRUG*) (*GRIN*)

(Jeez… I can only imagine the teacher’s union negotiating position on THAT one…)

(*SMILE*)

As to the physical labor…

AGREED! And as soon as the Revolution installs me as Supreme Dictator I’ll put your plan in motion.

Till then… (*SIGH*)… I’m afraid the legal system might have some objection – as too would the civil justice system.

BILL