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	<title>Comments on: Mormons for President?</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74814</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74814</guid>
		<description>ThomasJames posted the following from  http : //www.evangelicalsformitt.org/ :

&quot;[T]here’s a vast swath of Republican voters who are not “evangelical” but for whom core values are vitally important (along with other issues). Romney is poised to win this group. They don’t trust Huckabee’s economic liberalism, nor do they feel that Palin has the necessary experience.&quot;

This fits me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ThomasJames posted the following from  http : //www.evangelicalsformitt.org/ :</p>
<p>&#8220;[T]here’s a vast swath of Republican voters who are not “evangelical” but for whom core values are vitally important (along with other issues). Romney is poised to win this group. They don’t trust Huckabee’s economic liberalism, nor do they feel that Palin has the necessary experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>This fits me.</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasJames</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74786</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasJames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74786</guid>
		<description>Grizelda:

Your arguments are toast.  Your line of argumentation will not work in the national debate because you refuse to own up to President Obama&#039;s record or lack thereof.  

When people are out of jobs, out of credit, and failing, they&#039;ll take Romney&#039;s record over Obama.

Rational people will be able to distinguish between inheriting a state with a 3 billion deficit and a State that already has a surplus.  Which state is poised for better job growth?  Duh.

Your &quot;work&quot; here is done because you&#039;ve run out of excuses as to why you can&#039;t answer the tough questions for President Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizelda:</p>
<p>Your arguments are toast.  Your line of argumentation will not work in the national debate because you refuse to own up to President Obama&#8217;s record or lack thereof.  </p>
<p>When people are out of jobs, out of credit, and failing, they&#8217;ll take Romney&#8217;s record over Obama.</p>
<p>Rational people will be able to distinguish between inheriting a state with a 3 billion deficit and a State that already has a surplus.  Which state is poised for better job growth?  Duh.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;work&#8221; here is done because you&#8217;ve run out of excuses as to why you can&#8217;t answer the tough questions for President Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizelda</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74778</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74778</guid>
		<description>So we&#039;ve gone from your claim that Romney has a demonstrated track record in creating jobs to your admission that Massachusetts under Romney actually underperformed the rest of the nation.

My work here is done.

It will be fun to see all this aired again in 2012.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we&#8217;ve gone from your claim that Romney has a demonstrated track record in creating jobs to your admission that Massachusetts under Romney actually underperformed the rest of the nation.</p>
<p>My work here is done.</p>
<p>It will be fun to see all this aired again in 2012.</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasJames</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74771</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasJames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74771</guid>
		<description>Grizelda,

Notice that Andrew Sum did not contest the 60,000 job figure, he only interpreted that the State was an under performer compared to OTHER States.  

Furthermore, these are Romney&#039;s CRITICS, not non-partisan groups like the one I quoted.  Critics will try and SEE data in anyway as not to concede that Romney succeeded.  And how could they, how could they concede that a REPUBLICAN governor did well.

Look, you&#039;re toast.  Your argument didn&#039;t work and can&#039;t be duplicated for your own candidate.  Obama has created no jobs according to your standard of measurement.

The questions remain Grizelda:

Why didn’t Obama’s administration’s bailout get the credit flowing again?

Why didn’t Obama’s administration see to it that its mortgage program help the 1000s of people who need it?

Why does the UNemployment continue to RISE when Obama claimed his administrative policies and laws would have the opposite affect?

Why won&#039;t you confront these tough questions if Obama is a superior executive above Romney?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizelda,</p>
<p>Notice that Andrew Sum did not contest the 60,000 job figure, he only interpreted that the State was an under performer compared to OTHER States.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, these are Romney&#8217;s CRITICS, not non-partisan groups like the one I quoted.  Critics will try and SEE data in anyway as not to concede that Romney succeeded.  And how could they, how could they concede that a REPUBLICAN governor did well.</p>
<p>Look, you&#8217;re toast.  Your argument didn&#8217;t work and can&#8217;t be duplicated for your own candidate.  Obama has created no jobs according to your standard of measurement.</p>
<p>The questions remain Grizelda:</p>
<p>Why didn’t Obama’s administration’s bailout get the credit flowing again?</p>
<p>Why didn’t Obama’s administration see to it that its mortgage program help the 1000s of people who need it?</p>
<p>Why does the UNemployment continue to RISE when Obama claimed his administrative policies and laws would have the opposite affect?</p>
<p>Why won&#8217;t you confront these tough questions if Obama is a superior executive above Romney?</p>
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		<title>By: Grizelda</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74760</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74760</guid>
		<description>Also, TJ, it is interesting that he doesn&#039;t mention this 60,000 job miracle in the quotes given on this page:
www.ontheissues.org/2008/Mitt_Romney_Jobs.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, TJ, it is interesting that he doesn&#8217;t mention this 60,000 job miracle in the quotes given on this page:<br />
<a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Mitt_Romney_Jobs.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Mitt_Romney_Jobs.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Grizelda</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74756</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74756</guid>
		<description>60000 new jobs? TJ, check your trousers, they must be flaming!

&quot;The former Massachusetts governor issued a statement on Sunday titled &quot;creating jobs&quot; that focuses on 57,600 jobs added to the Massachusetts economy during his single term as governor from 2003 to 2007. But Northeastern University economist Andrew Sum, who has researched Romney&#039;s record, said the state lagged the U.S. average during that period in job creation, economic growth and wage increases. &quot;As a strict labor market economist looking at the record, Massachusetts did very poorly during the Romney years, he said. &quot;On every measure you&#039;ve got, the state was a substantial under-performer.&quot;

&quot;&quot;There&#039;s never been under his watch an economic turnaround to speak of,&quot; Michael Widmer, president of the independent Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, told Reuters. &quot;We added a few jobs over the last three years of his tenure but very few.&quot;

&quot;But Northeastern&#039;s Sum said that while jobs were created under Romney, the rate was the third-lowest in the nation after Hurricane Katrina-hit Louisiana and Michigan. At the same time, wages in the New England state stagnated during Romney&#039;s term. The average weekly wage of Massachusetts workers, Sum said, rose by just a $1 between 2001 and 2006 after adjusting for inflation, while the state had the third-highest rate of population loss in the nation between July 2002 and July 2006. Real output of goods and services -- a broad measure of economic performance -- grew 9 percent, below the 13 percent rate for the United States, he added.&quot;

www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2033704120080120?pageNumber=2&amp;virtualBrandChannel=0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>60000 new jobs? TJ, check your trousers, they must be flaming!</p>
<p>&#8220;The former Massachusetts governor issued a statement on Sunday titled &#8220;creating jobs&#8221; that focuses on 57,600 jobs added to the Massachusetts economy during his single term as governor from 2003 to 2007. But Northeastern University economist Andrew Sum, who has researched Romney&#8217;s record, said the state lagged the U.S. average during that period in job creation, economic growth and wage increases. &#8220;As a strict labor market economist looking at the record, Massachusetts did very poorly during the Romney years, he said. &#8220;On every measure you&#8217;ve got, the state was a substantial under-performer.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;There&#8217;s never been under his watch an economic turnaround to speak of,&#8221; Michael Widmer, president of the independent Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, told Reuters. &#8220;We added a few jobs over the last three years of his tenure but very few.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;But Northeastern&#8217;s Sum said that while jobs were created under Romney, the rate was the third-lowest in the nation after Hurricane Katrina-hit Louisiana and Michigan. At the same time, wages in the New England state stagnated during Romney&#8217;s term. The average weekly wage of Massachusetts workers, Sum said, rose by just a $1 between 2001 and 2006 after adjusting for inflation, while the state had the third-highest rate of population loss in the nation between July 2002 and July 2006. Real output of goods and services &#8212; a broad measure of economic performance &#8212; grew 9 percent, below the 13 percent rate for the United States, he added.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2033704120080120?pageNumber=2&amp;virtualBrandChannel=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2033704120080120?pageNumber=2&amp;virtualBrandChannel=0</a></p>
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		<title>By: ThomasJames</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74745</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasJames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74745</guid>
		<description>Grizelda:

No, it has been factually verified that during Romney&#039;s tenure, 60,000 new jobs were created by two different sources.  One of the sources recognized JobsFirst day from the JobsvFirst plan and connected 21,000 new jobs with it.  (The one you conveniently ignored.)

It has also been verified that new revenues came into the MA government as a result of the policies of the Romney administration allowing it to balance the budget.  These new revenues arise from businesses doing more business which required more job creation.

We can certainly follow the trail and we see a linkage between all of the facts about growth.  Perhaps an Economics 101 course is on order?

But in order to make the correct comparison between Romney and Obama we have to go back a step.  What did SENATOR Obama ever do to create jobs or balance a budget?  Zilch.  (And it shows.)

Furthermore, your own guy, President Obama claims that he saved 1,000,000 jobs as a result of his stimulus package, but there is no factual verification for it.  Where is your call that Obama made a &quot;false claim?&quot;  (You see, double standard.)

So, you give President Obama a pass but you require me to create a special kind of task force organization that can satisfy YOUR requirements for the linkage between Romney&#039;s policies and the subsequent success in MA in 2005, and 2006.  

What does this come down to?  You&#039;re toast.  Your fallacious argument is refuted.  It&#039;s based on your denial of the facts already provided and your double standard, one for Obama and one for Republicans.

Therefore, according to your last post, Obama has created no job growth and should be removed from office in 2012.

He declared “Yes We Can” and then proposed policies, bills and packages that he said WOULD make a difference NOW.

So, let’s evaluate.

Why didn’t Obama’s administration’s bailout get the credit flowing again?

Why didn’t Obama’s administration see to it that its mortgage program help the 1000s of people who need it?

Why does the UNemployment continue to RISE when Obama claimed his administrative policies and laws would have the opposite affect?

You can&#039;t even begin to address the problems that Obama cannot or will not face.

Tell us Grizelda, was the stimulus package Obama&#039;s best idea?  And if it wasn&#039;t, why didn&#039;t he put his best ideas forward to save or create jobs?  Why is he just sitting around when the House and Senate are Democractically controlled?

Can you hear the voices?


&quot;The Nobel Peace Prize? Climate change? 

I don’t have a job. I can’t send my kids to college even if I can figure out what they are going to have to eat at the end of the month … I voted for you. $2 trillion in bailouts and stimulus packages and 2,000 page health care bills and Asian trips and beer summits with Harvard professors … I voted for you. Are you kidding me??”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizelda:</p>
<p>No, it has been factually verified that during Romney&#8217;s tenure, 60,000 new jobs were created by two different sources.  One of the sources recognized JobsFirst day from the JobsvFirst plan and connected 21,000 new jobs with it.  (The one you conveniently ignored.)</p>
<p>It has also been verified that new revenues came into the MA government as a result of the policies of the Romney administration allowing it to balance the budget.  These new revenues arise from businesses doing more business which required more job creation.</p>
<p>We can certainly follow the trail and we see a linkage between all of the facts about growth.  Perhaps an Economics 101 course is on order?</p>
<p>But in order to make the correct comparison between Romney and Obama we have to go back a step.  What did SENATOR Obama ever do to create jobs or balance a budget?  Zilch.  (And it shows.)</p>
<p>Furthermore, your own guy, President Obama claims that he saved 1,000,000 jobs as a result of his stimulus package, but there is no factual verification for it.  Where is your call that Obama made a &#8220;false claim?&#8221;  (You see, double standard.)</p>
<p>So, you give President Obama a pass but you require me to create a special kind of task force organization that can satisfy YOUR requirements for the linkage between Romney&#8217;s policies and the subsequent success in MA in 2005, and 2006.  </p>
<p>What does this come down to?  You&#8217;re toast.  Your fallacious argument is refuted.  It&#8217;s based on your denial of the facts already provided and your double standard, one for Obama and one for Republicans.</p>
<p>Therefore, according to your last post, Obama has created no job growth and should be removed from office in 2012.</p>
<p>He declared “Yes We Can” and then proposed policies, bills and packages that he said WOULD make a difference NOW.</p>
<p>So, let’s evaluate.</p>
<p>Why didn’t Obama’s administration’s bailout get the credit flowing again?</p>
<p>Why didn’t Obama’s administration see to it that its mortgage program help the 1000s of people who need it?</p>
<p>Why does the UNemployment continue to RISE when Obama claimed his administrative policies and laws would have the opposite affect?</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t even begin to address the problems that Obama cannot or will not face.</p>
<p>Tell us Grizelda, was the stimulus package Obama&#8217;s best idea?  And if it wasn&#8217;t, why didn&#8217;t he put his best ideas forward to save or create jobs?  Why is he just sitting around when the House and Senate are Democractically controlled?</p>
<p>Can you hear the voices?</p>
<p>&#8220;The Nobel Peace Prize? Climate change? </p>
<p>I don’t have a job. I can’t send my kids to college even if I can figure out what they are going to have to eat at the end of the month … I voted for you. $2 trillion in bailouts and stimulus packages and 2,000 page health care bills and Asian trips and beer summits with Harvard professors … I voted for you. Are you kidding me??”</p>
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		<title>By: Grizelda</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74740</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74740</guid>
		<description>ThomasJames, you&#039;ve made a claim which should be able to be factually verified but which you cannot. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that you made a false claim. What claim have I made which is comparable to the whopper that you laid down?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ThomasJames, you&#8217;ve made a claim which should be able to be factually verified but which you cannot. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that you made a false claim. What claim have I made which is comparable to the whopper that you laid down?</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasJames</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74736</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasJames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74736</guid>
		<description>Grizelda:

Therefore, according to your last post, Obama has created no job growth and should be removed from office in 2012.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizelda:</p>
<p>Therefore, according to your last post, Obama has created no job growth and should be removed from office in 2012.</p>
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		<title>By: Grizelda</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/mormons-for-president-2/comment-page-4#comment-74733</link>
		<dc:creator>Grizelda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16971#comment-74733</guid>
		<description>hamaca, I&#039;m not demanding another level of proof - I&#039;m demanding the FIRST level of proof. TJ says Romney&#039;s JobsFirst program created thousands of jobs - but he cannot show anyone who concurs that JobsFirst created even ONE job. The fact that jobs were created does not mean that JobsFirst had anything to do with it - they could have all been from the Big Dig or from a big upswing in strip clubs being opened along Route One.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hamaca, I&#8217;m not demanding another level of proof &#8211; I&#8217;m demanding the FIRST level of proof. TJ says Romney&#8217;s JobsFirst program created thousands of jobs &#8211; but he cannot show anyone who concurs that JobsFirst created even ONE job. The fact that jobs were created does not mean that JobsFirst had anything to do with it &#8211; they could have all been from the Big Dig or from a big upswing in strip clubs being opened along Route One.</p>
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