Comments on: Money Will Never Be Enough http://www.frumforum.com/money-will-never-be-enough Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Bulldoglover100 http://www.frumforum.com/money-will-never-be-enough/comment-page-1#comment-46826 Bulldoglover100 Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:09:31 +0000 #comment-46826 Cforchange says that drug testing should be required for all forms of public/government money stipens and while a part of me agrees I also wish it were that easy. If the drug hazed mother receiving funds had cared about her kids to begin with then she would not be doing drugs so what are you going to do with those kids when you take away the money from the mother? Whose going to put a roof over their head of you take away section 8 housing? whose going to keep them alive when simple antibiotics are refused at the hospital? It's easy to allow our collective anger at the free hand outs get the better of our mouths but harder to deal with the real issues that would be laid open in it's wake. There are no easy answers but children who grow up to attend the KIPP schools at least have a shot at a life because they have had food in their bellies some days and have been able to receive vaccines, and had roofs over their heads at least part of the time. No, throwing money won't fix the problems but the reality is that the money gives good people a chance to try. Cforchange says that drug testing should be required for all forms of public/government money stipens and while a part of me agrees I also wish it were that easy. If the drug hazed mother receiving funds had cared about her kids to begin with then she would not be doing drugs so what are you going to do with those kids when you take away the money from the mother? Whose going to put a roof over their head of you take away section 8 housing? whose going to keep them alive when simple antibiotics are refused at the hospital?
It’s easy to allow our collective anger at the free hand outs get the better of our mouths but harder to deal with the real issues that would be laid open in it’s wake.
There are no easy answers but children who grow up to attend the KIPP schools at least have a shot at a life because they have had food in their bellies some days and have been able to receive vaccines, and had roofs over their heads at least part of the time.
No, throwing money won’t fix the problems but the reality is that the money gives good people a chance to try.

]]> By: jonnyjayhawk http://www.frumforum.com/money-will-never-be-enough/comment-page-1#comment-51990 jonnyjayhawk Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:28:25 +0000 #comment-51990 getting my car broken into last night about 30 yards away from me while I watched, left me in deep thought all day. The guy had to have taken 3000 dollars in merch between the 4 cars he broke into. With education from people that care about teaching life lessons rather than people that pass as many students through as possible for that bonus check is what matters. The difference between right and wrong, as well as an understanding of why it's that way, is what is being taught by people like you. I'll take advice from people on the front lines anyday. The sad fact is this: Unless you are directly affected or passionate about the subject people like you will be scarce. You can't teach passion, you can only pass it on.... hence what you are accomplishing. the goal is not money, and I agree with that. The goal is to create passion, understanding, and most importantly caring where it has never been on a massive scale. Soooo easy to say, and there has rarley ever been a glimmer of that concept. getting my car broken into last night about 30 yards away from me while I watched, left me in deep thought all day. The guy had to have taken 3000 dollars in merch between the 4 cars he broke into.

With education from people that care about teaching life lessons rather than people that pass as many students through as possible for that bonus check is what matters. The difference between right and wrong, as well as an understanding of why it’s that way, is what is being taught by people like you. I’ll take advice from people on the front lines anyday.

The sad fact is this: Unless you are directly affected or passionate about the subject people like you will be scarce. You can’t teach passion, you can only pass it on…. hence what you are accomplishing.

the goal is not money, and I agree with that. The goal is to create passion, understanding, and most importantly caring where it has never been on a massive scale. Soooo easy to say, and there has rarley ever been a glimmer of that concept.

]]> By: Cforchange http://www.frumforum.com/money-will-never-be-enough/comment-page-1#comment-39689 Cforchange Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:17:34 +0000 #comment-39689 Actually spending the same money but in a different way would go far to curb what you describe. One simple change to the rules would change many things - a clean drug test requirement to receive Section 8 funds, SSI payments, Food stipends or government supplied child support. The drug test should be a requirement because these funds are income to the recipient. If testing is part of what the tax paying work force at large experiences to obtain their income why should recipients of government payments receive preferential treatment? There is no doubt the general work force's civil rights are violated everyday because of this double standard. Sure you might pose a danger while performing certain tasks under the influence - but how about the danger to the CHILD who has a caretaker that is chronically impaired? Crack users for example: The habits of a crack addicted person are very well known - they use the drugs round the clock for as long as they can. For those who do not have payment sources, they stumble in the streets seeking the toxin and ways to pay for it. This occurs for days usually 2 weeks or so and then they disappear home to sleep off the binge and rest their weary hearts. Statisically each street walking professional drug user has 3-5 children so who and how are the children cared for while they stumble in the street? How can a child from this environment possibly take advantage of an education? Then consider how can they not be abused by others if their parent is preoccupied with pleasuring themselves round the clock? This is not a remote situation - it's happening over and over on a street corner close by. From my urban view, a child in this environment would be much better served in a children's home cared for by former day care workers that will be idled when the sour ecomony takes full shape. If we take steps to determine why there are people in need - even when times are good, the CHILD will be the winner. Playing the system and neglecting a child so you can pay for your addiction isn't fair to anyone. Make the system smarter because most everyone experiences a violation of civil rights in the case. Actually spending the same money but in a different way would go far to curb what you describe.
One simple change to the rules would change many things – a clean drug test requirement to receive Section 8 funds, SSI payments, Food stipends or government supplied child support. The drug test should be a requirement because these funds are income to the recipient. If testing is part of what the tax paying work force at large experiences to obtain their income why should recipients of government payments receive preferential treatment? There is no doubt the general work force’s civil rights are violated everyday because of this double standard. Sure you might pose a danger while performing certain tasks under the influence – but how about the danger to the CHILD who has a caretaker that is chronically impaired?
Crack users for example: The habits of a crack addicted person are very well known – they use the drugs round the clock for as long as they can. For those who do not have payment sources, they stumble in the streets seeking the toxin and ways to pay for it. This occurs for days usually 2 weeks or so and then they disappear home to sleep off the binge and rest their weary hearts. Statisically each street walking professional drug user has 3-5 children so who and how are the children cared for while they stumble in the street? How can a child from this environment possibly take advantage of an education? Then consider how can they not be abused by others if their parent is preoccupied with pleasuring themselves round the clock? This is not a remote situation – it’s happening over and over on a street corner close by.
From my urban view, a child in this environment would be much better served in a children’s home cared for by former day care workers that will be idled when the sour ecomony takes full shape.
If we take steps to determine why there are people in need – even when times are good, the CHILD will be the winner. Playing the system and neglecting a child so you can pay for your addiction isn’t fair to anyone. Make the system smarter because most everyone experiences a violation of civil rights in the case.

]]> By: doodad http://www.frumforum.com/money-will-never-be-enough/comment-page-1#comment-50739 doodad Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:51:32 +0000 #comment-50739 I admire your courage, Mr. Gibbon. My experience teaching public high school in a New England mill town in the '70s was eerily prescient of your experience. The students were classified by attainment: A students, B students, C students, which designations became self-fulfilling prophecies. The most frustrating and challenging were the F students, many of whom were quite smart. They took their classification as a life sentence of failure. "You can't expect us to learn anything, we're the F students." I tricked them. I DID expect them to learn and they learned. It was the hardest job I ever had; I went home exhausted every day. And I was burned out after one year. I applaud you Mr. Gibbon, you are pursuing a profession of the highest moral value. Please know that there are many of us who appreciate what you are doing. I admire your courage, Mr. Gibbon. My experience teaching public high school in a New England mill town in the ’70s was eerily prescient of your experience. The students were classified by attainment: A students, B students, C students, which designations became self-fulfilling prophecies. The most frustrating and challenging were the F students, many of whom were quite smart. They took their classification as a life sentence of failure. “You can’t expect us to learn anything, we’re the F students.” I tricked them. I DID expect them to learn and they learned. It was the hardest job I ever had; I went home exhausted every day. And I was burned out after one year. I applaud you Mr. Gibbon, you are pursuing a profession of the highest moral value. Please know that there are many of us who appreciate what you are doing.

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