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	<title>Comments on: Moderate Voters: We&#8217;ve Been Punked by Obama</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59808</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59808</guid>
		<description>Re: Jim Pier // Aug 13, 2009 at 2:00 am (#137) --

Don&#039;t despair, Jimbo! (*GRIN*)

You&#039;ll get the hang of browsing the threads. Basically skipping over Otto&#039;s posts is the key.

Balc. He (she?) is challenging to deal with but not a total nutter.

Staying on the &quot;Left&quot; I&#039;d recommend paying attention to Spartacus. He&#039;s not exactly &quot;Left&quot; in the &quot;Otto&quot; sense of Left, but he&#039;s definitely one to criticize and counter c0nservative conventional wisdom. That said, he&#039;s very intelligent and has a sense of humor. His links are always worth clicking on; you may not agree with their info, but it&#039;s always worth considering within the context of the debate.

Chekote... again, not &quot;Left&quot; in the sense Otto is Left... but anti-Palin... more of a &quot;wet&quot; Republican. Smarter and more instinctively willing to come down on the &quot;right side&quot; of issues than Balc, but not as broadly knowledgeable (history, nuts and bolts of &quot;social issues,&quot; etc.) as some of us.

(*WINK*) (Yeah... I know... but it&#039;s TRUE!) (*CHUCKLE*)

Sinz? Kinda schizo at times. Knee-jerk &quot;Right&quot; on defense and foreign policy but knee-jerk &quot;Left&quot; on issues like climate change. Still... overall... VERY knowledgeable, well-educated, knows his history pretty well, &quot;seasoned&quot; in the sense of he&#039;s lived through a lot... stubborn as hell though when he has his heels dug in.

As to those on the &quot;Right&quot; (give or take)... I&#039;ll leave you to make your own judgments.

Basically - as sites such as this go - this is a fairly civil and sophisticated &quot;mainstream&quot; blog.

BILL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Jim Pier // Aug 13, 2009 at 2:00 am (#137) &#8211;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t despair, Jimbo! (*GRIN*)</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll get the hang of browsing the threads. Basically skipping over Otto&#8217;s posts is the key.</p>
<p>Balc. He (she?) is challenging to deal with but not a total nutter.</p>
<p>Staying on the &#8220;Left&#8221; I&#8217;d recommend paying attention to Spartacus. He&#8217;s not exactly &#8220;Left&#8221; in the &#8220;Otto&#8221; sense of Left, but he&#8217;s definitely one to criticize and counter c0nservative conventional wisdom. That said, he&#8217;s very intelligent and has a sense of humor. His links are always worth clicking on; you may not agree with their info, but it&#8217;s always worth considering within the context of the debate.</p>
<p>Chekote&#8230; again, not &#8220;Left&#8221; in the sense Otto is Left&#8230; but anti-Palin&#8230; more of a &#8220;wet&#8221; Republican. Smarter and more instinctively willing to come down on the &#8220;right side&#8221; of issues than Balc, but not as broadly knowledgeable (history, nuts and bolts of &#8220;social issues,&#8221; etc.) as some of us.</p>
<p>(*WINK*) (Yeah&#8230; I know&#8230; but it&#8217;s TRUE!) (*CHUCKLE*)</p>
<p>Sinz? Kinda schizo at times. Knee-jerk &#8220;Right&#8221; on defense and foreign policy but knee-jerk &#8220;Left&#8221; on issues like climate change. Still&#8230; overall&#8230; VERY knowledgeable, well-educated, knows his history pretty well, &#8220;seasoned&#8221; in the sense of he&#8217;s lived through a lot&#8230; stubborn as hell though when he has his heels dug in.</p>
<p>As to those on the &#8220;Right&#8221; (give or take)&#8230; I&#8217;ll leave you to make your own judgments.</p>
<p>Basically &#8211; as sites such as this go &#8211; this is a fairly civil and sophisticated &#8220;mainstream&#8221; blog.</p>
<p>BILL</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Pier</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59757</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Pier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59757</guid>
		<description>Holy mackerel!  This thread went off the rails nasty since the last time I checked in!  I hope this is the exception and not the rule.  If I wanted to wipe the floor with simpletons and endure a barrage of slurs and insults, I would go on Yahoo or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy mackerel!  This thread went off the rails nasty since the last time I checked in!  I hope this is the exception and not the rule.  If I wanted to wipe the floor with simpletons and endure a barrage of slurs and insults, I would go on Yahoo or something.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59653</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59653</guid>
		<description>130 ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 4:19 pm 

&quot;That’s correct Bill. I knew there was a reason why I hadn’t posted on this blog for months or read the comments until a few days ago.&quot;

.........I can understand that you wouldn&#039;t want to spend too much time amongst the ignorant, dumb and stupid of NM (Bill excepted of course)....it must have been very stressful for someone of your high intelligence and sensibility.......you really need to spend more time amongst the intense intellectuality at Redstate or Free Republic.....both are very challenging I&#039;m told</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>130 ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 4:19 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;That’s correct Bill. I knew there was a reason why I hadn’t posted on this blog for months or read the comments until a few days ago.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I can understand that you wouldn&#8217;t want to spend too much time amongst the ignorant, dumb and stupid of NM (Bill excepted of course)&#8230;.it must have been very stressful for someone of your high intelligence and sensibility&#8230;&#8230;.you really need to spend more time amongst the intense intellectuality at Redstate or Free Republic&#8230;..both are very challenging I&#8217;m told</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59651</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59651</guid>
		<description>balconesfault // Aug 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm
&quot; A little more humility (like asking questions when one isn’t sure?) and a little less bellicosity would be significant improvements to the process.&quot;

.........I&#039;m the first to fess up to a propensity for bellicosity and acerbic humor when faced with bizarre demos of ignorance or condescension...... If someone proves me wrong I&#039;ll turn on a dime.....I&#039;m just not into denying reality but these last ditch defenses of it by some people like irreign who obviously isn&#039;t a dope (the other guy is a somewhat different matter) are just an affront to the reasoning process.......denying gravity is never going to work out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault // Aug 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm<br />
&#8221; A little more humility (like asking questions when one isn’t sure?) and a little less bellicosity would be significant improvements to the process.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I&#8217;m the first to fess up to a propensity for bellicosity and acerbic humor when faced with bizarre demos of ignorance or condescension&#8230;&#8230; If someone proves me wrong I&#8217;ll turn on a dime&#8230;..I&#8217;m just not into denying reality but these last ditch defenses of it by some people like irreign who obviously isn&#8217;t a dope (the other guy is a somewhat different matter) are just an affront to the reasoning process&#8230;&#8230;.denying gravity is never going to work out</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59648</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59648</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&quot;Preferably one who knows the difference between a fundamentalist and a fanatic&lt;/b&gt;

And hopefully, one who will take the effort to understand basic scientific definitions before excoriating others for not sharing his ignorance.

A little more humility (like asking questions when one isn&#039;t sure?) and a little less bellicosity would be significant improvements to the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Preferably one who knows the difference between a fundamentalist and a fanatic</p>
<p>And hopefully, one who will take the effort to understand basic scientific definitions before excoriating others for not sharing his ignorance.</p>
<p>A little more humility (like asking questions when one isn&#8217;t sure?) and a little less bellicosity would be significant improvements to the process.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59647</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59647</guid>
		<description>ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 4:19 pm
&quot; Churchill said it best (clearly Otto proves it), “The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

....Preferably one who knows the difference between a fundamentalist and a fanatic

........irreign you really are such a deliciously pompous twit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 4:19 pm<br />
&#8221; Churchill said it best (clearly Otto proves it), “The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”</p>
<p>&#8230;.Preferably one who knows the difference between a fundamentalist and a fanatic</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;..irreign you really are such a deliciously pompous twit</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59636</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59636</guid>
		<description>There is most certainly a reason why our founding fathers chose representative government.  And the current inability of California to deal with their economic crisis in face of the contradictory charges given to government via the ballot initiative process is testimony to the wisdom of that decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is most certainly a reason why our founding fathers chose representative government.  And the current inability of California to deal with their economic crisis in face of the contradictory charges given to government via the ballot initiative process is testimony to the wisdom of that decision.</p>
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		<title>By: DFL</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59634</link>
		<dc:creator>DFL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59634</guid>
		<description>Listening to the CSPAN call-in program in the morning should disabuse anyone that the  average voter has much  intelligence or even  common sense.  Many are paranoid or self-delusional.  Woe democracy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listening to the CSPAN call-in program in the morning should disabuse anyone that the  average voter has much  intelligence or even  common sense.  Many are paranoid or self-delusional.  Woe democracy!</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59625</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59625</guid>
		<description>Bill, you should quit shaking your head so much ... you might actually be able to learn something when the hardware up there quits rattling around.

If you&#039;re just going to keep quoting the Plan B site - you&#039;re tacitly accepting their definition that a fertilized egg, pre-implantation, does not constitute &quot;pregnancy&quot;.

That&#039;s fine.  I have no problem with that.  It still doesn&#039;t make you any less wrong when you declare that Plan B has no impact on a fertilized egg.

Shrug away.  I&#039;m pretty much convinced at this stage that your science comprehension is at an embryonic stage anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, you should quit shaking your head so much &#8230; you might actually be able to learn something when the hardware up there quits rattling around.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re just going to keep quoting the Plan B site &#8211; you&#8217;re tacitly accepting their definition that a fertilized egg, pre-implantation, does not constitute &#8220;pregnancy&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine.  I have no problem with that.  It still doesn&#8217;t make you any less wrong when you declare that Plan B has no impact on a fertilized egg.</p>
<p>Shrug away.  I&#8217;m pretty much convinced at this stage that your science comprehension is at an embryonic stage anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/moderate-voters-weve-been-punked-by-obama/comment-page-5#comment-59618</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=9668#comment-59618</guid>
		<description>Re: Balconesfault // Aug 12, 2009 at 2:07 pm (#123) --

Unfrigg&#039;nbelievable.

Balc. Remind me... are you a chick? If so... are you fertile?

Because I gotta say... you&#039;re definitely the type who would misuse (or perhaps not bother with) contraceptives.

One more time...

http://www.planbonestep.com/plan-b.aspx

&quot;Plan B One Step isn&#039;t an abortion pill - it can&#039;t terminate an existing pregnancy.

Now... must I also define &quot;pregnancy&quot; for you...???

QUOTING BALC (#113) --

As I noted, natural processes routinely slough off FERTILIZED eggs. Are they mourned? Not hardly. But if a woman decides to use Plan B the ejection of the FERTILIZED egg at the exact same stage of development is considered a tragedy by certain members of the right.

Jeez... (*GRIN*)... you know normally I&#039;d just shrug and let it lay (get it...? LAY?) (*GRIN*) but I&#039;m having so much fun demonstrating what a weasel you are... what a downright dummy you are... I just can&#039;t help myself from continuing to beat the dead horse.

(*WINK*)

You really SHOULD follow the links I provide, Balc; it would save you so much embarrassment.

(*SHRUG*)

BILL

P.S. - re: Ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 2:47 pm (#126) --

Obviously you&#039;re not a religious zealot, fanatic, or fundamentalist. 

Ireign. It&#039;s depressing, isn&#039;t it... (*SIGH*) And these people can vote... and drive... and have kids...

(*SHAKING MY HEAD IN DISGUST*)

BILL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Balconesfault // Aug 12, 2009 at 2:07 pm (#123) &#8211;</p>
<p>Unfrigg&#8217;nbelievable.</p>
<p>Balc. Remind me&#8230; are you a chick? If so&#8230; are you fertile?</p>
<p>Because I gotta say&#8230; you&#8217;re definitely the type who would misuse (or perhaps not bother with) contraceptives.</p>
<p>One more time&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.planbonestep.com/plan-b.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.planbonestep.com/plan-b.aspx</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Plan B One Step isn&#8217;t an abortion pill &#8211; it can&#8217;t terminate an existing pregnancy.</p>
<p>Now&#8230; must I also define &#8220;pregnancy&#8221; for you&#8230;???</p>
<p>QUOTING BALC (#113) &#8211;</p>
<p>As I noted, natural processes routinely slough off FERTILIZED eggs. Are they mourned? Not hardly. But if a woman decides to use Plan B the ejection of the FERTILIZED egg at the exact same stage of development is considered a tragedy by certain members of the right.</p>
<p>Jeez&#8230; (*GRIN*)&#8230; you know normally I&#8217;d just shrug and let it lay (get it&#8230;? LAY?) (*GRIN*) but I&#8217;m having so much fun demonstrating what a weasel you are&#8230; what a downright dummy you are&#8230; I just can&#8217;t help myself from continuing to beat the dead horse.</p>
<p>(*WINK*)</p>
<p>You really SHOULD follow the links I provide, Balc; it would save you so much embarrassment.</p>
<p>(*SHRUG*)</p>
<p>BILL</p>
<p>P.S. &#8211; re: Ireign // Aug 12, 2009 at 2:47 pm (#126) &#8211;</p>
<p>Obviously you&#8217;re not a religious zealot, fanatic, or fundamentalist. </p>
<p>Ireign. It&#8217;s depressing, isn&#8217;t it&#8230; (*SIGH*) And these people can vote&#8230; and drive&#8230; and have kids&#8230;</p>
<p>(*SHAKING MY HEAD IN DISGUST*)</p>
<p>BILL</p>
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