Comments on: Making the Case for New START http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The hacks opposing START | Conflict and security | Global Dashboard http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93909 The hacks opposing START | Conflict and security | Global Dashboard Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:31:46 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93909 [...] be left thinking that Kissinger opposed the treaty, when of course he is right behind it, issuing a joint statement with George Shultz, William Perry, and Sam Nunn: We strongly endorse the goals of this Treaty, and [...] [...] be left thinking that Kissinger opposed the treaty, when of course he is right behind it, issuing a joint statement with George Shultz, William Perry, and Sam Nunn: We strongly endorse the goals of this Treaty, and [...]

]]> By: forkboy1965 http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93718 forkboy1965 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:39:57 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93718 sinz54 forgets one important aspect: Russia's move towards democracy (if we can really call it that any as I believe oligarchy is a more appropriate term) is fleeting and fragile at best. A return to an anti-American/anti-West bent is not impossible. Working to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in their arsenal (and by default ours) is and remains an important policy. sinz54 forgets one important aspect: Russia’s move towards democracy (if we can really call it that any as I believe oligarchy is a more appropriate term) is fleeting and fragile at best. A return to an anti-American/anti-West bent is not impossible.

Working to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in their arsenal (and by default ours) is and remains an important policy.

]]> By: msmilack http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93665 msmilack Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:50:34 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93665 sinz54 As I understand it, the fear is that a terrorist group will get a hold of a nuclear weapon if the loose ones are still floating around, and by working with Russia to start, it is a first step toward mitigating that possibility. The two nations with over 90 percent of the nuclear weapons on the planet agreed to get rid of a substantial number of them; this will bring the nuclear arms race back to levels the world has not seen since the 1960s. Meanwhile, I am interested in hearing what the discussion will be with the 47 nations who are visiting the USA this coming week to discuss what else can be done. In the old days, nuclear power was supposed to make us feel safer; today, it is just the opposite. Thanks for commenting. sinz54
As I understand it, the fear is that a terrorist group will get a hold of a nuclear weapon if the loose ones are still floating around, and by working with Russia to start, it is a first step toward mitigating that possibility. The two nations with over 90 percent of the nuclear weapons on the planet agreed to get rid of a substantial number of them; this will bring the nuclear arms race back to levels the world has not seen since the 1960s.
Meanwhile, I am interested in hearing what the discussion will be with the 47 nations who are visiting the USA this coming week to discuss what else can be done. In the old days, nuclear power was supposed to make us feel safer; today, it is just the opposite. Thanks for commenting.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93650 sinz54 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:07:05 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93650 Carney: <blockquote> Even Reagan was at times wrong, unless he was merely engaging in some somewhat cynical propaganda to put pressure on the enemy. Dreaming of a nuclear free world is not just impractical, but dangerous in that it might persuade us to eliminate our deterrent. </blockquote> As we saw on 9-11, a clever enemy can launch a crippling strike against America even without ICBMs. And al-Qaeda wasn't and still isn't deterred by our thousands of nuclear weapons. Why is that, do you suppose? This treaty Obama signed is an anachronism. Nobody worries about a nuclear attack by Russian ballistic missiles anymore, just like we don't worry that France will launch their nuclear weapons against us. I stopped thinking about that, the day they hauled the Hammer-and-Sickle down from the Kremlin. Hey, we could also negotiate with Russia to ban galleons or dreadnaughts. :-) We built all those thousands of nukes to deter Russia. Does Russia really need to be deterred from nuking America anymore? Why would they? They're a struggling state with a dim future, as far as I can see. Does China need to be deterred from nuking America? Why would they go to war against America? Let's stop talking about the treaty (which solved a problem that doesn't exist anymore except in the minds of the feverish Left)--and start talking about strategy to deal with enemies like Iran or al-Qaeda, who have figured out how to defy America with all her nukes. The Cold War mindset is still impressed on too many people--all across the political spectrum. Carney: Even Reagan was at times wrong, unless he was merely engaging in some somewhat cynical propaganda to put pressure on the enemy. Dreaming of a nuclear free world is not just impractical, but dangerous in that it might persuade us to eliminate our deterrent.
As we saw on 9-11, a clever enemy can launch a crippling strike against America even without ICBMs.

And al-Qaeda wasn’t and still isn’t deterred by our thousands of nuclear weapons. Why is that, do you suppose?

This treaty Obama signed is an anachronism.
Nobody worries about a nuclear attack by Russian ballistic missiles anymore, just like we don’t worry that France will launch their nuclear weapons against us. I stopped thinking about that, the day they hauled the Hammer-and-Sickle down from the Kremlin. Hey, we could also negotiate with Russia to ban galleons or dreadnaughts. :-)

We built all those thousands of nukes to deter Russia. Does Russia really need to be deterred from nuking America anymore? Why would they? They’re a struggling state with a dim future, as far as I can see.

Does China need to be deterred from nuking America? Why would they go to war against America?

Let’s stop talking about the treaty (which solved a problem that doesn’t exist anymore except in the minds of the feverish Left)–and start talking about strategy to deal with enemies like Iran or al-Qaeda, who have figured out how to defy America with all her nukes.

The Cold War mindset is still impressed on too many people–all across the political spectrum.

]]> By: mohairone http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93640 mohairone Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:19:23 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93640 the GOP agenda has always been to sabotage Obama and return to power, regardless of the issue or consequences... governance, the best interests of this county and its citizens are an afterthought at best... START ratification will be no exception.. thanks for this, Marcia; keep them coming! the GOP agenda has always been to sabotage Obama and return to power, regardless of the issue or consequences… governance, the best interests of this county and its citizens are an afterthought at best… START ratification will be no exception..
thanks for this, Marcia; keep them coming!

]]> By: msmilack http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93627 msmilack Sat, 10 Apr 2010 10:58:52 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93627 rbottoms, I definitely will think back to that line the next time I see Glenn Beck! Thanks for the new reference but (though I admit that scary movies tend to be too much for me; guaranteed nightmare for me). Anyway, it sounds like a good way to see him, so thanks! rbottoms,
I definitely will think back to that line the next time I see Glenn Beck! Thanks for the new reference but (though I admit that scary movies tend to be too much for me; guaranteed nightmare for me). Anyway, it sounds like a good way to see him, so thanks!

]]> By: rbottoms http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93621 rbottoms Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:36:29 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93621 <blockquote> Good metaphor. </blockquote> My favorite 50's SciFi movie after Day the Earth Stood Still, scared the crap out of me as a kid. The GOP is just like Mobius, having called up this Family Values creature to win elections in the 80's, he can't shut it off and Fox is literally feeding up unlimited power. They may take down the Belarathon in November 2010, but the monster will turn on them in 2012. Next time you see Glenn Beck think of the line, "My evil self is at the door, and I have no power to stop it." Good metaphor.

My favorite 50’s SciFi movie after Day the Earth Stood Still, scared the crap out of me as a kid.

The GOP is just like Mobius, having called up this Family Values creature to win elections in the 80’s, he can’t shut it off and Fox is literally feeding up unlimited power. They may take down the Belarathon in November 2010, but the monster will turn on them in 2012. Next time you see Glenn Beck think of the line, “My evil self is at the door, and I have no power to stop it.”

]]> By: msmilack http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93618 msmilack Sat, 10 Apr 2010 07:42:37 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93618 rbottoms I just re-read your comment again and don't really see where we disagree. I can easily see the scenario of how this will play out as you describe it. Also, I like your description of the monster from the conservative ID. Good metaphor. rbottoms
I just re-read your comment again and don’t really see where we disagree. I can easily see the scenario of how this will play out as you describe it. Also, I like your description of the monster from the conservative ID. Good metaphor.

]]> By: msmilack http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93617 msmilack Sat, 10 Apr 2010 07:37:36 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93617 robttoms I'm confused by your comment (or are you confused by mine?) Here is my view. Nothing would make me happier than if the GOP agreed to ratify the treaty as the treaty is necessary; additionally, in my opinion, it represents a remarkable achievement in an effort that was initiated originally by Reagan, which was continued by Bush and has now been completed by Obama (though it is an early stage of the ultimate goal). The agreement with Russia is a good one for this country's long-term security (keeping nukes out of the hands of terrorists, e.g.) Yet it is likely that the GOP will obstruct as a political tactic. This bothers me. I think it is immoral to put their own concerns with winning ahead of what is best for the people they represent. In any event, you are entitled to your own opinion just as I am entitled to mine; that is what I love most about living in a democracy. And I believe such dialogue is healthy and essential, especially between those who do not agree. robttoms
I’m confused by your comment (or are you confused by mine?) Here is my view. Nothing would make me happier than if the GOP agreed to ratify the treaty as the treaty is necessary; additionally, in my opinion, it represents a remarkable achievement in an effort that was initiated originally by Reagan, which was continued by Bush and has now been completed by Obama (though it is an early stage of the ultimate goal). The agreement with Russia is a good one for this country’s long-term security (keeping nukes out of the hands of terrorists, e.g.) Yet it is likely that the GOP will obstruct as a political tactic. This bothers me. I think it is immoral to put their own concerns with winning ahead of what is best for the people they represent.

In any event, you are entitled to your own opinion just as I am entitled to mine; that is what I love most about living in a democracy. And I believe such dialogue is healthy and essential, especially between those who do not agree.

]]> By: rbottoms http://www.frumforum.com/making-the-case-for-new-start/comment-page-1#comment-93614 rbottoms Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:45:49 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=27487#comment-93614 <blockquote> The subject of the essay is the treaty and what it means, not winning back the house. </blockquote> To pretend that blaring Republican opposition to the treaty will be about anything more winning back the House and satisfying the paranoia of the Teabaggers is silly. Yes, there are substantive issues to be addressed and even valid criticisms that can b leveled at the Obama administration's approach to nuclear arms reduction. Unfortunately all that will be discussed will be Sean Hannity's willful disregard for any rational critique and what we'll hear will be weeks of wailing on Fox about how the United States is now naked before its enemies. Your loss and David's really, since that kind of crap will prevent anyone in the GOP who wants to be re-elected from making the slightest concession to Obama in order to make any changes to the treaty proposal and we'll get a party line vote full of noise and fury signifying... well you know. The GOP has gone insane it seems. Or not insane, more like the Monster from the Conservative Id, raging outside Morbius' lair in Forbidden Planet. The captain has revealed to Morbius that his evil self is at the door, and Fox is the Krell Science that will provide the monster with all the power it needs to break through and destroy everyone around it. What happens next is anyone's guess. The subject of the essay is the treaty and what it means, not winning back the house.

To pretend that blaring Republican opposition to the treaty will be about anything more winning back the House and satisfying the paranoia of the Teabaggers is silly.

Yes, there are substantive issues to be addressed and even valid criticisms that can b leveled at the Obama administration’s approach to nuclear arms reduction. Unfortunately all that will be discussed will be Sean Hannity’s willful disregard for any rational critique and what we’ll hear will be weeks of wailing on Fox about how the United States is now naked before its enemies.

Your loss and David’s really, since that kind of crap will prevent anyone in the GOP who wants to be re-elected from making the slightest concession to Obama in order to make any changes to the treaty proposal and we’ll get a party line vote full of noise and fury signifying… well you know.

The GOP has gone insane it seems.

Or not insane, more like the Monster from the Conservative Id, raging outside Morbius’ lair in Forbidden Planet.

The captain has revealed to Morbius that his evil self is at the door, and Fox is the Krell Science that will provide the monster with all the power it needs to break through and destroy everyone around it.

What happens next is anyone’s guess.

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