Comments on: Lessons Unlearned

By: mlindroo

mlindroo — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:40:30 +0000

> I wonder why it is that you liberal Republicans continue to
> declare conservatives "so far out of touch that there isn't
> even any point in debating that with you" while your own
> candidates fare worse than conservatives in virtually every
> election?

If you mean Senate elections, moderate GOP senators in Blue states do currently have a problem since voters tend to punish them for the misdeeds of the national [conservative!] Republican leaders. In 2008, four of the nine most moderate Senators failed to get reelected. "Good riddance" you say. But the cold, hard truth is that it is very difficult to assemble a majority if only conservative candidates are deemed acceptable. The GOP has few pickup opportunities left in Red states, where hard line conservatives might be able to win a general election. There is Mary Landrieu's seat in Louisiana, both seats in Montana and Arkansas, maybe Ben Nelson in Nebraska and little else. But recent results indicate candidates such as Rick Santorum are just way too conservative for e.g. Pennsylvania.

MARCU$

By: ireign

ireign — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:50:30 +0000

Actually, I think Frum is trying to discount other positions. Namely social conservatives. Which is fine but he leaves himself open to counter charges. Frum, was also one of the biggest opponents of Harriet Miers and the immigration compromise. So he has not been necessarily ideologically consistent. It seems a little like frontrunning. I haven't followed the "Tea Party" protesters but I haven't heard anything about neo-cons from them.

Sinz, I do not typically read redstate but I just went over there and I don't see the word Rino mentioned once.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:54:24 +0000

ireign: In fact, we're hearing that exact argument from those "Tea Party" protesters who are fans of Ron Paul or the Constitution Party: Kick the "neo-cons" out, and withdraw from foreign entanglements.

However, I wish that folks like you would stop turning Frum's point upside down: Frum *never* advocated throwing anyone out of the GOP. Neither did Arlen Specter. Neither did I. What we are pleading, is for the rabid partisans in the GOP base to stop trying to throw *us* out by sticking a "RINO" label on us as a way of marking us for excommunication. We are the ones who are in danger of being kicked out.

Over on RedState.com, they're saying that unless you support the pro-life and anti-gay stances, you're a "RINO." Right now, the GOP base is engaged in this suicidal "RINO hunt": Let's throw anyone out of the GOP who isn't ideologically pure; and after we've shrunk back to a small cadre of ideologues, why the voters will just flock to us because they'll admire how pure and noble we sound. NOT.GONNA.HAPPEN.

In a two-party system, ideological purity has never won elections, because no 51% cross-section of the electorate is ideologically pure. The GOP base should be reminded that Reagan won in 1980 by promising to leave Social Security and Medicare intact. Which, as President, he did.

By: ireign

ireign — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:31:57 +0000

Sinz, "moderates" such as Ted Stevens spent heavily on projects such as the bridge to nowhere which helped ruin the Republican brand. Everyone in the Republican party bears some culpability for the party's decline. Mlindroo gets it right.

However, Frum is increasingly becoming the wrong messenger. Rightly or wrongly, he favored a bellecose foreign policy that electorally is currently very unpopular. I think he was right but it is kind of difficult for him to argue that Republicans should sacrifice religious conservatives when one can easily make the argument that they should sacrifice foreign policy conservatives such as Frum.

We shouldn't be throwing anyone overboard right now.

By: ireign

ireign — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:27:21 +0000

Republicans have 41 votes. They don’t have the luxury of running primaries on ideological grounds. Specter isn’t worthless. Without Specter, Clarence Thomas isn’t confirmed. Specter isn’t the most likeable or ideologically consistent politician in the world but without a primary, we keep his seat so we can focus resources on other states. There is one primary Republicans should be gunning for but its in Kentucky where Bunning is going to lose a safe seat for Republicans unless he loses in a primary.

By: mlindroo

mlindroo — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:52:53 +0000

I don't think the Republican Party has been "destroyed" by a particular ideological view, say, abandoning small government or pushing socially conservative policies. The current problems have more to do with incompetence and corruption in 2000-2006. GW Bush would be every bit as unpopular if he had deferred to the Dems at every turn while still screwing up Iraq, Katrina, the handling of the Wall Street crisis etc.. Conversely, conservatives would undoubtedly be hailing him (and Karl Rove) as a genius if the Iraq occupation had been an effortless, smashing success since it would have cemented the GOP's post-9/11 stranglehold on "national security" military voters.

For the same reason, I would advise caution when assuming Obama's political views are so "extreme" or "un-American" he cannot possibly remain popular. If the economy is doing OK four years from now and there are no major foreign policy crises, he will win while hardly breaking a sweat.

MARCU$

By: Chekote

Chekote — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:27:02 +0000

“The old Reagan coalition has already fallen apart–and like Humpty Dumpty, it ain’t gonna be put back together again.”Completely agree. The country has changed a lot since 1980. There just aren’t as many union members, blue collar workers. The GOP needs to go upscale. I thought they “got the message” but apparently not.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:47:10 +0000

gary4205: What EXACTLY did GOP moderates do, to destroy the Republican Party?

It was staunch conservative Phil Gramm, NOT Olympia Snowe or David Frum, who handed Enron and the financial industry everything they wanted, by gutting regulation of those industries. The result was a $40 trillion market of derivatives based on a financial pile of sand--which collapsed last September.

You might blame David Frum and the Bushies for the debacle in Iraq, which so turned off swing voters to the GOP. *Except* that Bush's actions in Iraq had the enthusiastic support of some 90% of Republican *conservatives* (according to the public opinion polls); the remainder were Ron Paul fans.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:43:00 +0000

WiLG: The old Reagan coalition has already fallen apart--and like Humpty Dumpty, it ain't gonna be put back together again.

What held it together--fear of "godless" Communism and fear of hyperinflation--are no longer operative drivers in 2009 as they once were in 1980.

You've got Phyllis Schlafly denouncing free trade; you've got Larry Kudlow denouncing those who worry about Islamist financial control of our businesses as "Islamophobic"; You've got Mike Huckabee's antibusiness populism; you've got Ron Paul calling for American isolationism and deep cuts in national defense spending. And over the last year, a deflationary depression (for which conservatives had few answers) was a much bigger concern than inflation.

We might as well face up to that, and move forward under a new philosophical umbrella.

By: realconservativ

realconservativ — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:51:01 +0000

Gary 4205 wrote: "Frum, you give stupid a bad name!"

I love it when people tell it like it is.

The great thing for real conservatives - when you have an enemy like Frum, you don't need (m)any friends.

I'd love to see David try to arrange a one car funeral to see if he could pull it off. Don't think so.